Why is Apple the only tech company that makes unique products?

[garybUK]

Apple used to innovate, right now they have acheived the goal of any capitalist company, they've hit the big time with the iPhone and are resting on their laurels.

Notebooks / Computers, these aren't innovative, infact the PowerPC was innovative, OSX 10.1 was innovative but now... it's got to a point where they don't innovate, Intel does; Nvidia does; AMD does, apple are a box maker using the same components as everyone else.

Apple A series mobile processors, these are innovated by ARM (spun off from Acorn, a british company). Again they don't innovate.

Where they DO innovate is the idea of a vertical system where typically companies have gone to a horizontal view. The innovation is to capture you with something (be it a Apple TV, iMac, iPhone, iPod) and get you into their vertical structure. The innovation comes at creating a market for all possible user needs within this vertical structure, e.g. Movies, Music, Apps... where they can't make it themselves they take a cut from other developers (30% split).

 

[*LTD*]

The Click Wheel interface was/is an abomination and exactly the opposite of a "good" interface. It's a horrible mess. The only usable iPod is the iPod Touch.

The click wheel interface was, in fact, a key element in the astounding (and that's putting it mildly) success of the iPod.

I thought everyone knew this already.

Apple used to innovate, right now they have acheived the goal of any capitalist company, they've hit the big time with the iPhone and are resting on their laurels.

In case you haven't noticed, they've redefined computing almost overnight. They're now building on that. They've got the competition completely flummoxed. They're pushing the industry forward with their apparent non-innovations.

 

[SevenInchScrew]

In case you haven't noticed, they've redefined computing almost overnight.

What was the "old" definition of computing, and what is it now?

 

[roadbloc]

In case you haven't noticed, they've redefined computing almost overnight.

I think you're the only one who's noticed that. I haven't yet. I've yet to even see an iPad outside the Apple Store.

 

[secondhandloser]

The click wheel interface was, in fact, a key element in the astounding (and that's putting it mildly) success of the iPod.

I thought everyone knew this already.


In case you haven't noticed, they've redefined computing almost overnight. They're now building on that. They've got the competition completely flummoxed. They're pushing the industry forward with their apparent non-innovations.

I thought the iPod succeeded due to integration with an online music source, as well as finally being a useable HD based mp3 player.


I wasn't aware computing had changed. Please detail this.

 

[JoeG4]

Yeah, not to mention Sony's use of chicklet keyboa... err.. wait, Apple took that idea from them and not the other way around.

Yea lol.

The click wheel iPod? Anyone remember the Jog Dial fad? Friggin FAX MACHINES were coming with the dang thing.

 

[*LTD*]

I thought the iPod succeeded due to integration with an online music source, as well as finally being a useable HD based mp3 player.


I wasn't aware computing had changed. Please detail this.

Milestone 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0FtgZNOD44

Milestone 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftf4riVJyqw

Milestone 3 (the most recent):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBhYxj2SvRI

Any questions?

 

[belvdr]

Milestone 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0FtgZNOD44

Milestone 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftf4riVJyqw

Milestone 3 (the most recent):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBhYxj2SvRI

Any questions?

Links to Steve's presentations and nothing else, eh? If computing has changed, then why do we still have laptops and desktops? Even better, why does Apple still sell them?

At least you are following this statement perfectly :

I just look to Steve to see the trends in posting on Macrumors. Whatever the guy says, it means it will become defacto opinion on this site.

 

[secondhandloser]

Milestone 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0FtgZNOD44

Milestone 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftf4riVJyqw

Milestone 3 (the most recent):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBhYxj2SvRI

Any questions?

[Citation needed]


Fun fact: Showing SJ talk does not mean Apple has "redefined" computing. They have helped evolve it, as a player in the industry, of course. Hardly anything that could be called redefining.

 

[*LTD*]

Links to Steve's presentations and nothing else, eh? If computing has changed, then why do we still have laptops and desktops? Even better, why does Apple still sell them?

Transition.

The industry is undergoing a massive paradigm-shift, thanks to Apple.

 

[ct2k7]

Transition.

The industry is undergoing a massive paradigm-shift, thanks to Apple.

I am not seeing a transition in the crucial paradigm. They're not slowing down on the desktop and notebook front. Sure, we might be moving towards a tablet computing form factor, but that already exists.

 

[SevenInchScrew]

Transition.

The industry is undergoing a massive paradigm-shift, thanks to Apple.

I thought they "redefined" computing? How can it be definite if it is still in a "transition" phase?

 

[benzslrpee]

easy answer to the original question. they have different product strategies. why does BMW crank out sexy M3s while Toyota and Honda try to make every sedan look as conservative as possible?

can BMW switch markets? sure. however, BMW will dilute their brand equity by playing in a lower market segment. so for better or worse, BMW always has to produce products that are in comparison more luxurious, innovative and unique compared with Detroit and Japan.

Apple faces a similar situation.

 

[roadbloc]

Transition.

The industry is undergoing a massive paradigm-shift, thanks to Apple

No. A new market has been opened by Apple. That is as far as it goes. An iPad is not for everyone. Tablets will never kill off Laptops or Desktops or Servers.

 

[nim81]

While Symbian might have been first, I was talking strictly about iOS vs Android as that was what the poster hinted at.

Backgrounding certain tasks is fine, and yes it works well even though it's not a replacement for multi-tasking. What I hate is the task manager they came up with that is near useless since it doesn't actually give you a list of running tasks. It's a list of everything you've done with the phone, in like ever. You need to manually clean it up and even then, you don't know what is and isn't running.



I wasn't talking about design and updates. More like the marketing effort and the stagnation between said spec bumps. They marketed the crap out of the Rev A, then it just fell out of sight. Same for AppleTV 1st generation.

But thanks for assuming and correcting me on something I didn't mention or hint at. Real classy.

Honestly I think Apple got the multitasking almost spot on... the way it manages it is perfect for a device with limited battery/processing power.

In the last 6 months I've "fixed" two phones for people (1x Android, 1 x Symbian) who've installed an app that's running constantly in the background and making the phone unusable to the point they thought it was broken. I used to find it with my own Nokia N95, the multitasking ability was excellent but you had to be careful what you left running or the battery could run down in a few hours.

I think Apple have made an excellent trade-off in that way, it used to bug the hell out of me that I couldn't use sat nav or internet radio apps in the background, but since iOS 4 I've really not found any situation where I need "true" multitasking and the current implementation has little effect on the battery.

That said, I agree with what you say about the task manager, it feels really clunky. I don't know what would be the best way to change it, but I'm sure there has to be something better.

Going back to what the OP is saying, no Apple is of course not unique in innovating, to suggest so is just blinkered. Taking the point of the multitasking or even copy and paste, I'm pretty sure that if other mobile OSs weren't doing this, Apple would have been happy to sit back and say sorry, you just can't do that. They can be quite an arrogant company like that.

 

[*LTD*]

No. A new market has been opened by Apple. That is as far as it goes. An iPad is not for everyone. Tablets will never kill off Laptops or Desktops or Servers.

Wait a while.

 

[ct2k7]

Wait a while.

Tablets replacing servers? No way, no thank you.

 

[OllyW]

Tablets replacing servers? No way, no thank you.

Now that would be...

a massive paradigm-shift

 

[KnightWRX]

Tablets don't even redefine computing at all anyway. It's all the same it's always been. A device that takes input, processes it according to a set of instructions, and outputs a result or provides storage.

That's the basic definition of a computer. iPad, iPhone, Macbook, Xserve, Mac Pro, they are all computers. You use them to input data, process it, store it or output it to an output device (printer, screen).

To think there's some kind of paradigm-shift going is simply having your head in the clouds.

For programmers, nothing has changed, we're doing the same thing with the devices people in the 1970s were doing, albeit, with more refined output capabilities and different input devices.

For server admins nothing has changed. These thin/fat clients are still needing server architectures to drive them and still use the very core Client/Server model for most of their servers. Heck, moving things "into the cloud", just means more power on the server backend and less in the client. That means more infrastructure to manage for us server guys. "Cloud computer" is just another way of saying "Client/Server" model and the 60s called about that, they want us to quit renaming their concept.

For "desktop support" people, nothing has changed. Devices have to be imaged with the software the customer needs, it needs to be configured and that configuration needs to be managed. It needs to get hardware service when broken. It needs software support for when things don't really work right or for when the user needs a live person "manual" to reference.

Heck, I'd go so far as to argue even for users, what really changed ? iPad is a big e-mail, web, facebook, gaming device. PCs/Laptops have been this for these people for the last 10 or 15 years. They are doing the same thing on tablets that they were on laptops. There's no paradigm shift at all, just a different format. It would be like calling laptops a paradigm shift when they came out.

 

[MOFS]

Tablets don't even redefine computing at all anyway. It's all the same it's always been. A device that takes input, processes it according to a set of instructions, and outputs a result or provides storage.

That's the basic definition of a computer. iPad, iPhone, Macbook, Xserve, Mac Pro, they are all computers. You use them to input data, process it, store it or output it to an output device (printer, screen).

To think there's some kind of paradigm-shift going is simply having your head in the clouds.

For programmers, nothing has changed, we're doing the same thing with the devices people in the 1970s were doing, albeit, with more refined output capabilities and different input devices.

For server admins nothing has changed. These thin/fat clients are still needing server architectures to drive them and still use the very core Client/Server model for most of their servers. Heck, moving things "into the cloud", just means more power on the server backend and less in the client. That means more infrastructure to manage for us server guys. "Cloud computer" is just another way of saying "Client/Server" model and the 60s called about that, they want us to quit renaming their concept.

For "desktop support" people, nothing has changed. Devices have to be imaged with the software the customer needs, it needs to be configured and that configuration needs to be managed. It needs to get hardware service when broken. It needs software support for when things don't really work right or for when the user needs a live person "manual" to reference.

Heck, I'd go so far as to argue even for users, what really changed ? iPad is a big e-mail, web, facebook, gaming device. PCs/Laptops have been this for these people for the last 10 or 15 years. They are doing the same thing on tablets that they were on laptops. There's no paradigm shift at all, just a different format. It would be like calling laptops a paradigm shift when they came out.

I think there will be a change in computing, and tablets are the future of it. I do think servers/ power machines will remain, but I can see them becoming specialised (such as in power stations etc). I can see Linux filling that whole perfectly. I do feel that tablets/ touch based computers are the future, but I think they need voice recognition software to truly come into play for text input. If the iPad had a killer voice recognition software, then MS Word for iPad might truly become a game changer. As good as any touchscreen is, typing 2,000 words on a touchscreen would be a bit of a push.

 

[KnightWRX]

I think there will be a change in computing

So you mean computing won't be "Input, Process, Output, Storage" but something else ?

No, there will be no change in computing. It's already general and basic enough to cover all the bases.

and tablets are the future of it. I do think servers/ power machines will remain, but I can see them becoming specialised (such as in power stations etc). I can see Linux filling that whole perfectly. I do feel that tablets/ touch based computers are the future, but I think they need voice recognition software to truly come into play for text input. If the iPad had a killer voice recognition software, then MS Word for iPad might truly become a game changer. As good as any touchscreen is, typing 2,000 words on a touchscreen would be a bit of a push.

You failed to see any of my points. Tablets are not some kind of "future change to computers!", tablets are very much computing devices utilizing the same concepts and ideas that have been the very core of the industry for the last 50 years.

Touch based computer ? It's still input and input is just that, input. It doesn't matter whether is touch, keyboards, mice, network, voice, biometrics. Input is input.

A lot of you people want to see a massive change where frankly there isn't any. A new type of device doesn't somehow make everything different. It can just be a "new type of device", something the computer industry of the last 50 years has seen plenty of.

Read my post again carefully, you'll see that I already addressed all your points. Don't just respond to me without even understanding what I'm talking about and at least trying to counteract my points if you're going to try to contradict me.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Niche? Really? So all the iPhones and iPads sold around the world and they're still niche? What's that niche called? the whole market?!

There are 'Droid lovers out there.. with many not liking the closed "eco-system" that Apple imposes for apps; and the selective "censorship" in apps or how a device like the ATV2 won't show Gay&Lesbian genre in the Netflix app on the ATV2.

In the end for the iPhone it seems that it has a 30% market share according to data I found. The iPad is harder to peg down since the numbers can be split between eReaders, tablets, netbooks, and even notebooks.

Once it all shakes out, Apple IMO would be happy with 20-30% across all their platforms. The revenue stream from iTunes will keep them very happy.

I disagree. The click wheel made it easier to use, as it was intuitive (scrolling clockwise down, anticlockwise up), and was also easily used inside a pocket [find the clickwheel and you're go]. The clickwheel has been hailed as a masterstroke for Apple; getting rid of the plethora of buttons on MP3 players and replacing it with a sleek interface. I find it the most annoying part of using my iPhone is that I have to look at the screen to use the controls.

+1

The click wheel in my first iPod won me over... though at least with compatible headsets with in-line buttons we can at least advance to the next track...

In case you haven't noticed, they've redefined computing almost overnight. They're now building on that. They've got the competition completely flummoxed. They're pushing the industry forward with their apparent non-innovations.

One has to just look at the MBA, and even the MBP models...

Links to Steve's presentations and nothing else, eh? If computing has changed, then why do we still have laptops and desktops? Even better, why does Apple still sell them?

The links were about three of the four products that changed the tech landscape... the missing one was for the iPod.

The 1st Mac changed how we ALL would look at using a computer for a very long time. The 1st iPhone changed how we look at the smartphone, as did the 1st iPad.

As to your question about why does Apple still sell notebooks and desktops; or why anyone else might still be selling them. Seriously, till Intel and others can give us that power in a portable device - it won't happen. Yet the power that the iPad's offer are capturing the imagination of folks that realize they don't need major power for day-to-day tasks.

What I think we are seeing is an integration of devices that no other single company has yet been able to do. From our music players, to our TV, to our tablets, to our notebooks or desktops. And getting them all to play well with each other.

Goes back to my comments about Apple having a comfortable niche... 20-30% of us that like a seamless environment for our digital life...

Honestly I think Apple got the multitasking almost spot on... the way it manages it is perfect for a device with limited battery/processing power.

In the last 6 months I've "fixed" two phones for people (1x Android, 1 x Symbian) who've installed an app that's running constantly in the background and making the phone unusable to the point they thought it was broken. I used to find it with my own Nokia N95, the multitasking ability was excellent but you had to be careful what you left running or the battery could run down in a few hours.

I think Apple have made an excellent trade-off in that way, it used to bug the hell out of me that I couldn't use sat nav or internet radio apps in the background, but since iOS 4 I've really not found any situation where I need "true" multitasking and the current implementation has little effect on the battery.

+1

We might not like the "limits" gives us... but in the end it helps in the "experience"....

 

[MOFS]

So you mean computing won't be "Input, Process, Output, Storage" but something else ?

You failed to see any of my points. Tablets are not some kind of "future change to computers!", tablets are very much computing devices utilizing the same concepts and ideas that have been the very core of the industry for the last 50 years.

Touch based computer ? It's still input and input is just that, input. It doesn't matter whether is touch, keyboards, mice, network, voice, biometrics. Input is input.

A lot of you people want to see a massive change where frankly there isn't any. A new type of device doesn't somehow make everything different. It can just be a "new type of device", something the computer industry of the last 50 years has seen plenty of.

Read my post again carefully, you'll see that I already addressed all your points. Don't just respond to me without even understanding what I'm talking about and at least trying to counteract my points if you're going to try to contradict me.

For me, I do see the iPad (and actually the App Store) as a change in computing. By removing the complex processes that we go through in a computer (eg instead of downloading an app, moving it into a folder, deleting the dmg its a simple case of downloading the app), the iPad is changing our computer experience by simplifying it to the extent that it's only the part we want to use rather than need to use. The iPad and the App Store process have the potential to kickstart and similarly drastic change in computing as moving from a line based OS to a GUI. In this case, "input is not input": a GUI opened up computers to more than just programmers, and the simplified OSs of the iPad (and, as we can see, creeping into Mac OS Lion) will only help people using these actually really quite complex devices. It will happen, as we can see it happening as Apple and Google look to move the "computer" into phones and televisions. Some people will want different devices (servers etc) but increasingly I think the computer is moving away from the idea of a desktop PC.

 

[KnightWRX]

For me, I do see the iPad (and actually the App Store) as a change in computing. By removing the complex processes that we go through in a computer (eg instead of downloading an app, moving it into a folder, deleting the dmg its a simple case of downloading the app), the iPad is changing our computer experience by simplifying it to the extent that it's only the part we want to use rather than need to use.

But that is not redefining "Computing" or computers at all. It's simply making them easier to use. If you want it to absolutely be about redefining something, talk about usability, not computing.

The iPad is still receiving network/USB input for that app, processing the data and eventually storing it. It is still doing the very same concept of computing we were doing 50 years ago on massive mainframes. There is no shift in "computing".

You again failed to address this point in your quest to see redefinition where there is none. You're thinking at way to precise of a level to even talk about computers/computing.

The iPad and the App Store process have the potential to kickstart and similarly drastic change in computing as moving from a line based OS to a GUI.

Again, no change in "Computing" there. You're talking about usability once again. Line based or GUI based, it was all about taking input, processing it, storing the resulting data or outputting it. Be it with printf() statements or XCreateWindow() and then drawing to it.

The concept of computing is the same in both line based or GUI based interface. The output mechanism is different, the input device is different.

In this case, "input is not input": a GUI opened up computers to more than just programmers

You have not proven your hypothesis of "input is not input". It very much is. Clicking and typing are both types of input. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

but increasingly I think the computer is moving away from the idea of a desktop PC.

The computer has never been so intimate with Desktop PCs. Every desktop PC is a computer, not every computer is a desktop PC. Again, last 50 years of computing has seen tremendous boost in computer usage in about everything. The desktop PC has been one small segment of computer usage and of the very large computing industry. Embedded systems is another. Mainframe systems are still very much alive. Thin client computing is an idea of the 70s that saw a come back in the 90s with Sun's push ("The network is the computer"). Today, it's all about "mobile" devices, which are a type of embedded system.

I think you're just very ignorant (not meant as an insult, just a casual observation based on your replies) of what computing and computers actually are that you see a "new segment" as a massive paradigm shift. There is no shift. Again :

Input. Process. Output. Store.

There is no more to it than that and until you change this very simple definition, you have not shifted any paradigms in computing.

 

[steviem]

Apple used to innovate, right now they have acheived the goal of any capitalist company, they've hit the big time with the iPhone and are resting on their laurels.

Notebooks / Computers, these aren't innovative, infact the PowerPC was innovative, OSX 10.1 was innovative but now... it's got to a point where they don't innovate, Intel does; Nvidia does; AMD does, apple are a box maker using the same components as everyone else.

Apple A series mobile processors, these are innovated by ARM (spun off from Acorn, a british company). Again they don't innovate.

Where they DO innovate is the idea of a vertical system where typically companies have gone to a horizontal view. The innovation is to capture you with something (be it a Apple TV, iMac, iPhone, iPod) and get you into their vertical structure. The innovation comes at creating a market for all possible user needs within this vertical structure, e.g. Movies, Music, Apps... where they can't make it themselves they take a cut from other developers (30% split).

What is innovation?

Apple have done a lot since the PowerPC. In fact, especially in the laptop area, Apple were severly lacking in innovation with the iBook and PowerBook. PowerBook to original MacBook Pro, not a lot changed, but let's look at what has changed since the first MacBook to now.

Apple has found a way of manufacturing beautiful Aluminium cases out of a block of aluminium. During my day job, I work with Dell D-series, E-Series laptops and Macbook Pros. Admittedly, we get less Apple hardware with failure than we do with the Dells, and the 2-3 year old Dells are dropping like flies due to their Nvidia graphics chipsets failing. Last week I had 6 Dell laptops fail and had to replace their motherboards. Which leads me onto another of Apple's innovations. Component layouts. Yes, Apple use the same components as other PCs, they did during the late PowerPC era too (save the processor) and the way they engineer the layout and cooling is just of a much higher quality than Dell, where the parts do seem to be more cobbled together.

Then let's look at 2007. Yes there were Blackberry and Windows Mobile phones around first, but the innovation that Apple made was making smartphones useful to more people. They also helped create an entire new software development industry, in the background they had a tablet, unlike any Tablet PCs, but too hard to make into a product at the time.

Apple are great at taking something already there and making it work either in other applications or making the entire package in a way that their competitors just get confused on how to combat. Look at how Motorola desgined the Xoom, Samsung Designed the Galaxy Tab 10, there's something lacking in these designs in the entire packages. Yes they will be great against the original iPad and its original OS, but look at Garageband and iMovie. The iPad is geting powerful enough to be a device to create on. That is innovation.

I'm not talking about the lower levels of computing. I'm talking about the parts of computing that End Users, who will never see an IDE in their entire lives. This is where computing is being redefined. They're shifting the way people use the "input. Process. Output.Store".