Why is constructively criticizing Apple not allowed on this forum?

[BillyMatt87]

I have made a few threads with some legitimate concerns regarding the decline of Apple's software quality and obviously the fanboys come out in droves to tell me to "go get Android" or "download an alternative 3rd party app" which neither solves the actual issue at hand. I'm constantly being told that my complaints and concerns are invalid and that the thread should be locked.

What kind of message does that say about Apple's most loyal and devoted? Any form of criticism and dissent needs to be quickly stamped out because Apple is all-knowing, all-wise, perfect and can do no wrong in their eyes. That's the exact mentality that has enabled Apple under Tim Cook to produce and release half-baked and ill-conceived products and services. In that way, hardcore Apple fans are just as radical as the most extreme Android users.

I will not apologize for holding Apple up to the standards that Steve set just as the fanboys will not apologize for Apple's recent and increasingly longer list of shortcomings and try to defend them and justify their decisions at every turn.

So that ultimately leads to the initial question and premise of this thread, is criticizing Apple no matter how legitimate or constructive seemingly banned here? I consider myself an Apple fan, one who has been highly disappointed with the direction they've been going in and some many here give Apple a free pass because they can't fathom a repeat of the 90s which seems more and more likely with each passing year of Tim Cook as CEO.

 

[Armen]

I have made a few threads with some legitimate concerns regarding the decline of Apple's software quality and obviously the fanboys come out in droves to tell me to "go get Android" or "download an alternative 3rd party app" which neither solves the actual issue at hand. I'm constantly being told that my complaints and concerns are invalid and that the thread should be locked.

What kind of message does that say about Apple's most loyal and devoted? Any form of criticism and dissent needs to be quickly stamped out because Apple is all-knowing, all-wise, perfect and can do no wrong in their eyes. That's the exact mentality that has enabled Apple under Tim Cook to produce and release half-baked and ill-conceived products and services. In that way, hardcore Apple fans are just as radical as the most extreme Android users.

I will not apologize for holding Apple up to the standards that Steve set just as the fanboys will not apologize for Apple's recent and increasingly longer list of shortcomings and try to defend them and justify their decisions at every turn.

So that ultimately leads to the initial question and premise of this thread, is criticizing Apple no matter how legitimate or constructive seemingly banned here? I consider myself an Apple fan, one who has been highly disappointed with the direction they've been going in and some many here give Apple a free pass because they can't fathom a repeat of the 90s which seems more and more likely with each passing year of Tim Cook as CEO.

It's difficult to take you seriously when you blame Tim Cook for everything iOS related. His job as CEO of Apple is to keep the company profitable and running which is what he's been doing. Since millions of iOS users do not share your opinions don't expect Tim Cook to tap Craig Federighi and ask for changes to the music app (as an example).

The productive path to take is to submit Feedback directly to Apple about your concerns. No one from Apple comes to MR for feedback. What is the purpose of your threads? Not only do most people not agree with you but even if they did are you just going to nod in agreement for 10 pages?

Since you do not want to listen to reason don't expect people to listen to you.

 

[BillyMatt87]

It's difficult to take you seriously when you blame Tim Cook for everything iOS related.

Well considering he was the one who fired Scott Forstall and installed Federighi as Software VP and Ive as UI designer, I will definitely blame him for the decline of quality in iOS.

 

[ardchoille50]

What kind of message does that say about Apple's most loyal and devoted? Any form of criticism and dissent needs to be quickly stamped out because Apple is all-knowing, all-wise, perfect and can do no wrong in their eyes. That's the exact mentality that has enabled Apple under Tim Cook to produce and release half-baked and ill-conceived products and services. In that way, hardcore Apple fans are just as radical as the most extreme Android users.

I see several assumptions here that are simply wrong. Perhaps the question you really should be asking has more to do with your own assumptions?

I'll just leave this here:
"Diplomacy is the art of telling people to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions."
― Winston S. Churchill

 

[smacrumon]

It's difficult to take you seriously when you blame Tim Cook for everything iOS related. His job as CEO of Apple is to keep the company profitable and running which is what he's been doing. Since millions of iOS users do not share your opinions don't expect Tim Cook to tap Craig Federighi and ask for changes to the music app (as an example).

The productive path to take is to submit Feedback directly to Apple about your concerns. No one from Apple comes to MR for feedback. What is the purpose of your threads? Not only do most people not agree with you but even if they did are you just going to nod in agreement for 10 pages?

Since you do not want to listen to reason don't expect people to listen to you.

Actually, Apple executives have gone on record stating that Apple does read forums such as those on MacRumors. Common sense would actually dictate that forums like these would be invaluable resources to Apple and its competitors in gauging sentiment on its operations, product line and services through the unvetted replies of forum posters (except when MacRumors delete posts). I think Tim Cook is doing a very good job as CEO but a different type of job as CEO compared with the past. Commend the leadership on new social issues Apple has involved itself in. You're right, the CEO job is to keep the company profitable and running, but it is also to keep outputting great products and services. Things like protruding cameras and awful antenna lines on iPhones display a lack of refinement in final product design and an air of lazy compromise, these things need to be resolved ASAP. 3D touch is a half baked idea. Not offering an iPhone 6 in a classic smaller form factor, therefore fragmenting the line up is not only a disappointment to developers and customers but has some awful effects for many years. No more design compromises or fragmentation, customers can buy their compromises and fragmentations from other manufacturers. Apple shouldn't do compromise or fragmentation. iTunes is not simple and is a complicated app that does too much and needs a fully well considered and not rushed rethink. The Apple Watch is a pretty unit, but I've seen people demonstrate it only to highlight the awkwardness of the interface. I personally feel Forstall brought a certain simple fun factor to iOS design that is missing, but then again Ive has brought a certain refinement to iOS design that was needed. Apple needs both the tension of these two factors. It's almost like a lot of people at Apple are trawling through the dregs of Facebook, getting exposed to some of the most lame ideas and designs, instead of focusing on what really matters, which is the best, most imaginative and magical products that anyone could think up, full stop. A lot, maybe millions of people agree with the original forum poster here, something at Apple is off, and they are concerned because Apple has in its DNA to be something ever fresh and amazing. But the trajectory is off and if it isn't corrected, Apple with become just another company on the stock exchange, no heart just a set of figures with a demoralised workforce behind it. To Apple: Don't rush. Take your time. Keep it all simple and making sense. Make the best products and services. Make your workforce in the US and at factories around the world feel valued through proper payments and conditions. Pay your taxes honourably and don't avoid them. Treat customers extremely well. Shut out social media distractions. Sit employees down every week and watch all the archived videos of Apple in the late 1990s and 2000s, all the interviews of its CEOs and leadership team, reconnect with Apple's story and history. Look to the future.

 

[Armen]

Actually, Apple executives have gone on record stating that Apple does read forums such as those on MacRumors. Common sense would actually dictate that forums like these would be invaluable resources to Apple and its competitors in gauging sentiment on its operations, product line and services through the unvetted replies of forum posters (except when MacRumors delete posts). I think Tim Cook is doing a very good job as CEO but a different type of job as CEO compared with the past. Commend the leadership on new social issues Apple has involved itself in. You're right, the CEO job is to keep the company profitable and running, but it is also to keep outputting great products and services. Things like protruding cameras and awful antenna lines on iPhones display a lack of refinement in final product design and an air of lazy compromise, these things need to be resolved ASAP. 3D touch is a half baked idea. Not offering an iPhone 6 in a classic smaller form factor, therefore fragmenting the line up is not only a disappointment to developers and customers but has some awful effects for many years. No more design compromises or fragmentation, customers can buy their compromises and fragmentations from other manufacturers. Apple shouldn't do compromise or fragmentation. iTunes is not simple and is a complicated app that does too much and needs a fully well considered and not rushed rethink. The Apple Watch is a pretty unit, but I've seen people demonstrate it only to highlight the awkwardness of the interface. I personally feel Forstall brought a certain simple fun factor to iOS design that is missing, but then again Ive has brought a certain refinement to iOS design that was needed. Apple needs both the tension of these two factors. It's almost like a lot of people at Apple are trawling through the dregs of Facebook, getting exposed to some of the most lame ideas and designs, instead of focusing on what really matters, which is the best, most imaginative and magical products that anyone could think up, full stop. A lot, maybe millions of people agree with the original forum poster here, something at Apple is off, and they are concerned because Apple has in its DNA to be something ever fresh and amazing. But the trajectory is off and if it isn't corrected, Apple with become just another company on the stock exchange, no heart just a set of figures with a demoralised workforce behind it. To Apple: Don't rush. Take your time. Keep it all simple and making sense. Make the best products and services. Make your workforce in the US and at factories around the world feel valued through proper payments and conditions. Pay your taxes honourably and don't avoid them. Treat customers extremely well. Shut out social media distractions. Sit employees down every week and watch all the archived videos of Apple in the late 1990s and 2000s, all the interviews of its CEOs and leadership team, reconnect with Apple's story and history. Look to the future.

Some people point fingers at Tim Cook and blame him for what iOS is but many have forgotten that Antennagate happened under Steve Job's watch.

Apple these days seems to be giving in to customer wants:

- Apple made a bigger iPhone although SJ stood firm that a 3.5" screen was the right size.
- Apple is now going to make a smaller iphone to grab that 1/3 of users
- Apple introduced a stylus(Appe pencil) for the iPad Pro even though SJ dismissed and mocked the idea.
- Apple redesigned iOS because people were labeling iOS as "stale", "outdated", "old".
- Apple keeps adding features/shortcuts in iOS that are available in Android and complicating it even though SJ liked it simple.

 

[smacrumon]

Some people point fingers at Tim Cook and blame him for what iOS is but many have forgotten that Antennagate happened under Steve Job's watch.

Apple these days seems to be giving in to customer wants:

- Apple made a bigger iPhone although SJ stood firm that a 3.5" screen was the right size.
- Apple is now going to make a smaller iphone to grab that 1/3 of users
- Apple introduced a stylus(Appe pencil) for the iPad Pro even though SJ dismissed and mocked the idea.
- Apple redesigned iOS because people were labeling iOS as "stale", "outdated", "old".
- Apple keeps adding features/shortcuts in iOS that are available in Android and complicating it even though SJ liked it simple.

The pencil is another half baked idea. A cap that you can lose easily. Yuck.

 

[BillyMatt87]

Some people point fingers at Tim Cook and blame him for what iOS is but many have forgotten that Antennagate happened under Steve Job's watch.

Apple these days seems to be giving in to customer wants:

- Apple made a bigger iPhone although SJ stood firm that a 3.5" screen was the right size.
- Apple is now going to make a smaller iphone to grab that 1/3 of users
- Apple introduced a stylus(Appe pencil) for the iPad Pro even though SJ dismissed and mocked the idea.
- Apple redesigned iOS because people were labeling iOS as "stale", "outdated", "old".
- Apple keeps adding features/shortcuts in iOS that are available in Android and complicating it even though SJ liked it simple.

As I've said before, Cook fired Forstall, elevated Federighi and Ive. Therefore, the current state of iOS is his fault.

Steve Jobs was against giving the customers what they wanted and the products benefited because of that. Cook's lack of vision and ideas shows how reliant he is on consumer demand, the products have declined in quality because of that.

- Steve Jobs definitely held true to his 3.5" stance. While his level of involvement with the iPhone 5 is not exactly clear, it's obvious how quickly Apple changed its tune from saying how 4" was the ideal display size (and it was but 3.5" also worked well) in 2012 to the release of 6/6 Plus in 2014.

- It seems as if Cook and co. are unable to settle on display sizes. At least with Jobs, they found the sweet spot and stuck with it. No need to constantly cater to market demand for the sake of it.

- I think there's a reason why Jobs was against styluses, another unnecessary tool to keep track of and doesn't add anything to the user experience the way fingers do with the multi-touch interface and the gestures. Plus the Pencil is insanely overpriced and has to be charged via Lightning.

- Apple redesigned iOS to spite Forstall and whitewash his contributions to the company. Ironically, we're approaching the point where the current UI is starting to look stale and outdated. It won't be long until everyone is clamoring for another redesign.

- The fact that Apple is more focused on copying Android as opposed to keeping iOS's identity and character intact shows how little they care about their own products. What happened to the "Think Different" mentality?

 

[lparsons21]

I guess I must be using different Apple products than you do. I've got a MacBook 12", iPad Pro and iPhone 6+ and find all of them to be steps forward from previous models.

The pen is fantastic for those that have the need as does a friend of mine who is an artist. For me I wouldn't want it as it would sit in a drawer unused. The + version of the phone is wonderful because I can read it without digging for my reading specs. And the MacBook 12" is right sized and performs as well as anything for my needs.

Both iOS and OSX have made steps in the right direction IMO. Neither are perfect, both are much better than either Windows or Android by a significant margin.

So maybe it is some of you, and not Apple or Tim Cook...

 

[Armen]

As I've said before, Cook fired Forstall, elevated Federighi and Ive. Therefore, the current state of iOS is his fault.

Steve Jobs was against giving the customers what they wanted and the products benefited because of that. Cook's lack of vision and ideas shows how reliant he is on consumer demand, the products have declined in quality because of that.

- Steve Jobs definitely held true to his 3.5" stance. While his level of involvement with the iPhone 5 is not exactly clear, it's obvious how quickly Apple changed its tune from saying how 4" was the ideal display size (and it was but 3.5" also worked well) in 2012 to the release of 6/6 Plus in 2014.

- It seems as if Cook and co. are unable to settle on display sizes. At least with Jobs, they found the sweet spot and stuck with it. No need to constantly cater to market demand for the sake of it.

- I think there's a reason why Jobs was against styluses, another unnecessary tool to keep track of and doesn't add anything to the user experience the way fingers do with the multi-touch interface and the gestures. Plus the Pencil is insanely overpriced and has to be charged via Lightning.

- Apple redesigned iOS to spite Forstall and whitewash his contributions to the company. Ironically, we're approaching the point where the current UI is starting to look stale and outdated. It won't be long until everyone is clamoring for another redesign.

- The fact that Apple is more focused on copying Android as opposed to keeping iOS's identity and character intact shows how little they care about their own products. What happened to the "Think Different" mentality?

Given your evaluation if Steve Jobs was alive today he would have run Apple into the ground by being the only Smartphone maker who made a phone that only came in a tiny 3.5" screen.

 

[BillyMatt87]

I guess I must be using different Apple products than you do. I've got a MacBook 12", iPad Pro and iPhone 6+ and find all of them to be steps forward from previous models.

The pen is fantastic for those that have the need as does a friend of mine who is an artist. For me I wouldn't want it as it would sit in a drawer unused. The + version of the phone is wonderful because I can read it without digging for my reading specs. And the MacBook 12" is right sized and performs as well as anything for my needs.

Both iOS and OSX have made steps in the right direction IMO. Neither are perfect, both are much better than either Windows or Android by a significant margin.

So maybe it is some of you, and not Apple or Tim Cook...

You're actually happy with your 12" MacBook? No ports and an SD FaceTime cam?

You're happy with a 13" tablet that essentially runs a scaled up iPhone UI?

You can't seriously believe iOS and OS X are at their best right now. Since Forstall's untimely termination, we have seen a huge drop in software quality both on the design and performance ends. iOS has actually lowered itself to the level of Android and Windows since iOS 7.

I guess you'll buy and support anything with an Apple logo on it, no questions asked.

 

[smacrumon]

Given your evaluation if Steve Jobs was alive today he would have run Apple into the ground by being the only Smartphone maker who made a phone that only came in a tiny 3.5" screen.

That's exaggeration and not even remotely plausible. From readings of Steve and by Steve's own words, his arm would have been hard to twist to add additional screen sizes. He would have done so though but I think he would have only done 4 inch with 2x retina and one other size probably somewhere in between the 6 and 6plus which would have been 3x retina (with no upscaling down scaling nonsense that haunt 6 and 6plus devices, in particular 6 blurring when display zoom is turned on in settings). He would have directed the ship to clean waters.

 

[BillyMatt87]

Given your evaluation if Steve Jobs was alive today he would have run Apple into the ground by being the only Smartphone maker who made a phone that only came in a tiny 3.5" screen.

Well he definitely wouldn't be fixated on what his competitors were doing, Jobs did his own thing and did it better that's why Apple was on the top of its game. Apple is no longer a "Think Different" type of company, I suppose maybe Tesla has taken up that mantle. Coincidently enough, Apple is trying to play catchup with said company with an electric car project that's not only ill-conceived but will seemingly turn Apple into a parody of itself, which has already started to happen. Besides, if the iPhone remained at 3.5" or even 4", it wouldn't cannibalize iPad sales the way it current has and it would still be big enough to perform all of its intended functions perfectly but small enough where it doesn't look like a borderline tablet.

 

[lparsons21]

You're actually happy with your 12" MacBook? No ports and an SD FaceTime cam?

You're happy with a 13" tablet that essentially runs a scaled up iPhone UI?

You can't seriously believe iOS and OS X are at their best right now. Since Forstall's untimely termination, we have seen a huge drop in software quality both on the design and performance ends. iOS has actually lowered itself to the level of Android and Windows since iOS 7.

I guess you'll buy and support anything with an Apple logo on it, no questions asked.

Yep, happy as a clam!
12" MacBook: ports are so old school! Everything in my house is wireless and works very well. No needs for wires running hither and yon. I can't remember the last time I used a computer on a desk. As to the camera, while I would like a better one, the one on it does just fine. Those I've used FaceTime with haven't complained.

iPad Pro: It is my most used 'laptop'. I can do nearly everything I want to on it just fine. Of course there are things missing, but for the most part those are things I don't do. I can and do edit documents, scan with the camera, print just fine.

And yes, they are both at their best right now and I fully expect OSX and iOS as well as the hardware to get better.

BTW, I have lots of tech as I enjoy playing around with it, I have the time and I have the money. Got a SurfacePro 2, Pixel Chromebook and a slew of e-readers and tablets scattered around the house. Retirement is good!!

 

[smacrumon]

You're actually happy with your 12" MacBook? No ports and an SD FaceTime cam?

You're happy with a 13" tablet that essentially runs a scaled up iPhone UI?

You can't seriously believe iOS and OS X are at their best right now. Since Forstall's untimely termination, we have seen a huge drop in software quality both on the design and performance ends. iOS has actually lowered itself to the level of Android and Windows since iOS 7.

I guess you'll buy and support anything with an Apple logo on it, no questions asked.

That's my exact thoughts, a lot of people will buy without critical investigation of the product just because it has an etched Apple logo, while the original Apple believes are casting their eyes looking for something next and even more amazing. It could be another Apple product but it could very well be something else.

 

[BenTrovato]

OP... you need a reality check. Jobs operated a company from a position that nearly no CEO will ever be granted. If Jobs said 3.5" was the size, then that's it. If Jobs wanted to fire someone and hire someone else, then that's what happened. He was a ruthless maniac but he was right so often that it worked out. Tim Cook is not Steve Jobs. He has to respond to a board that essentially directs him, but also when the board wants the company to shift in a different direction, Tim Cook has the responsibility to do so.

I liked Steve Jobs but if you have any clue about business, that Apple died with him. Companies don't operate like that. Tim Cook is actually great but he has zero authority, he has full allegiance to his board and gets paid handsomely to execute their orders.

 

[lparsons21]

That's my exact thoughts, a lot of people will buy without critical investigation of the product just because it has an etched Apple logo, while the original Apple believes are casting their eyes looking for something next and even more amazing. It could be another Apple product but it could very well be something else.

You and he make rash assumptions. I buy the gear I want to buy, when I want to buy it, and made by whoever makes what it is I want to buy.
Sometimes it's Apple, sometimes it's others. I'm not brand centered.

That said, when it comes to ecosystem surrounding the OS/gear, nobody even comes real close to Apple and to me that is one HUGE plus.

Now you can go back to bitching about Apple, I won't mind...

 

[ardchoille50]

You're actually happy with your 12" MacBook? No ports and an SD FaceTime cam?

You're happy with a 13" tablet that essentially runs a scaled up iPhone UI?

You can't seriously believe iOS and OS X are at their best right now. Since Forstall's untimely termination, we have seen a huge drop in software quality both on the design and performance ends. iOS has actually lowered itself to the level of Android and Windows since iOS 7.

I guess you'll buy and support anything with an Apple logo on it, no questions asked.

The happiest people don't have the best of everything.. the happiest people make the best of everything. You strike me as one of those people who would complain about the weight if someone handed you a bar of gold.

Some of us are quite happy with their Apple products.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

I see several assumptions here that are simply wrong. Perhaps the question you really should be asking has more to do with your own assumptions?

I'll just leave this here:
"Diplomacy is the art of telling people to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions."
― Winston S. Churchill

It works solely on/with people who are responsive to the ways and means of Diplomacy.

 

[smacrumon]

Yep, happy as a clam!
12" MacBook: ports are so old school! Everything in my house is wireless and works very well. No needs for wires running hither and yon. I can't remember the last time I used a computer on a desk. As to the camera, while I would like a better one, the one on it does just fine. Those I've used FaceTime with haven't complained.

iPad Pro: It is my most used 'laptop'. I can do nearly everything I want to on it just fine. Of course there are things missing, but for the most part those are things I don't do. I can and do edit documents, scan with the camera, print just fine.

And yes, they are both at their best right now and I fully expect OSX and iOS as well as the hardware to get better.

BTW, I have lots of tech as I enjoy playing around with it, I have the time and I have the money. Got a SurfacePro 2, Pixel Chromebook and a slew of e-readers and tablets scattered around the house. Retirement is good!!

Landfill really needs more of that equipment to add to its collection.

 

[lparsons21]

Landfill really needs more of that equipment someday.

So will whatever you buy while you're on this old ball of dirt. What point are you trying to make?
I buy tech gear I want to fiddle with and sell it when I'm tired of it. So far the only thing gathering dust is my G5 PowerMac, I diddled too long and now it has no value.

 

[BillyMatt87]

OP... you need a reality check. Jobs operated a company from a position that nearly no CEO will ever be granted. If Jobs said 3.5" was the size, then that's it. If Jobs wanted to fire someone and hire someone else, then that's what happened. He was a ruthless maniac but he was right so often that it worked out. Tim Cook is not Steve Jobs. He has to respond to a board that essentially directs him, but also when the board wants the company to shift in a different direction, Tim Cook has the responsibility to do so.

I liked Steve Jobs but if you have any clue about business, that Apple died with him. Companies don't operate like that. Tim Cook is actually great but he has zero authority, he has full allegiance to his board and gets paid handsomely to execute their orders.

90s era Apple is alive and well once more...

 

[Armen]

90s era Apple is alive and well once more...

Now you understand why you get thread locked? You go on and on in this delusional manner.

 

[C DM]

The pencil is another half baked idea. A cap that you can lose easily. Yuck.

All those pens that have removable caps...just failures...they have never sold at all and production of them has stopped long ago...oh, wait...

 

[smacrumon]

OP... you need a reality check. Jobs operated a company from a position that nearly no CEO will ever be granted. If Jobs said 3.5" was the size, then that's it. If Jobs wanted to fire someone and hire someone else, then that's what happened. He was a ruthless maniac but he was right so often that it worked out. Tim Cook is not Steve Jobs. He has to respond to a board that essentially directs him, but also when the board wants the company to shift in a different direction, Tim Cook has the responsibility to do so.

I liked Steve Jobs but if you have any clue about business, that Apple died with him. Companies don't operate like that. Tim Cook is actually great but he has zero authority, he has full allegiance to his board and gets paid handsomely to execute their orders.

I disagree. I think Apple has enough collective learning not to head down that route again. If not, save the heartache, investors dump your stocks early.
[doublepost=1457385708][/doublepost]

All those pens that have removable caps...just failures...they have never sold at all and production of them has stopped long ago...oh, wait...

You clearly don't get it. Any idiot can make a pen with a stupid cap to hide an unsightly USB prong. The art and science of it all is the ability to take the time to design something so pure that the need for a cap is totally unnecessary. The pencil is such an ugly piece of uninspired work made by Apple in the past year. The second is that keyboard that attaches to the ipad pro.