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Qbnkelt

macrumors 65816
Oct 15, 2015
1,058
994
Mid-Atlantic
So a user can't post about his or her experiences if they are negative, because it doesn't represent what the masses think? Where is the logic in that.



.

Same question to you. A user can only post what is negative, because that's what the OP thinks?

Let's see how this went down. The OP is a serial complainer. A user posted that he's happy with a product. Why should the OP question that, simply because he's not? Then make the statement that the person who posted a positive comment would say the same about anything with an Apple logo?

That was what I challenged.

I love my iPhone 6s Plus. Why can't I say that?

And here's a novel idea.... If you don't like a product, don't continue to buy it. Go to another product.
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I dont disagree with the OP. I like my Apple gear, but I am confronted by threads of issues, bugs and so on. The previous comment alluding that Apple quality is so great, isn't true. Generally Very Good is max points I will give. Its also not about Steve Jobs. His way was GREAT quality and simple. Now we have very good quality generally, and much more useful. Why so many issues and bugs exist is due to TC, its his watch. Yes antenna gate was there but these days, you read threads after a release to avoid buying problems. The board TOLD TC to innovate, which is saying make money. He did, and they did, at the expense of rushed out products. If Apple was ever a 9.9, now they are a 7.9, and thats ok with me. I use my phone, not aura, so when the aura fades, I'm ok with that.
[doublepost=1457515319][/doublepost]
Same question to you. A user can only post what is negative, because that's what the OP thinks?

Let's see how this went down. The OP is a serial complainer. A user posted that he's happy with a product. Why should the OP question that, simply because he's not? Then make the statement that the person who posted a positive comment would say the same about anything with an Apple logo?

That was what I challenged.

I love my iPhone 6s Plus. Why can't I say that?

And here's a novel idea.... If you don't like a product, don't continue to buy it. Go to another product.
His post was more about the reaction of defenders. He made some points, I just did too. But they will be defended, not debated, discussed. Its like a negative comment is heresy, verboten, etc, etc. On one side he's a complainer, and the other comments are the defender at all costs. So while its not a bad or forbidden topic, it can't be discussed. There are many many many other threads about Apple quality he and others can go to.

And he is an Apple user, doing forget that. He sees standards slipping, others either don't have that opinion, or wont ever have that opinion
 
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yep-sure

macrumors 6502
Sep 21, 2012
495
564
Melbourne, Australia
Same question to you. A user can only post what is negative, because that's what the OP think

I never said or alluded to anything of the sort.

The OP might have, and if he did, I don't agree.

I love my Apple products - like I've said many times, out of the available options, Apple still suits me best. I just miss that great easy and fun to use experience that had rock solid reliability.

I migrated from Windows to Apple for a reason - reliability, ease of use, and great design. All of those three categories have declined in quality - it doesn't mean I hate Apple or its products. I just want them to be as great as they once were and it gets on my nerves when you can't make critical comments here without being told to buy a different product.
 
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lparsons21

macrumors 6502
Jun 3, 2014
451
208
Southern Illinois
Quite possibly making critical comments gets a slew of competing comments because many, maybe even most of us, don't happen to agree with your assumptions and conclusions.
I switched to mostly Apple with a Strawberry iMac back in the day and the experience since then has been nearly trouble free, with improvements that mattered being made all along the way. Compared to other platforms it is nearly perfection, with only minor glitches here and there.
I don't agree that Apple's stuff today isn't every bit as good or better than in the past. The only thing I haven't seen in a long time is 'the next big thing'. And I have current gear running virtually every OS out there as playing with tech is one thing I love to do and being retired, I have more time to do it. If I were to rate things today it is Apple at #1 and the others at a narrowing distance behind.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,216
Gotta be in it to win it
This is from the original post:

"Some users think that experience can still be found in Apple products, and sadly, I think many of these people are in denial."

So a user can't post about his or her experiences if they are negative, because it doesn't represent what the masses think? Where is the logic in that.

You are essentially saying I am in denial? This is not posting about a singular experience and given apples recent record breaking quarter, I wonder which people have their heads buried in the sand.

For the record, I never had a bent iPhone, but for the sake of argument, I think it is a legitimate complaint. Putting your phone is your jeans and sitting down is a real world use case that Apple somehow didn't account for in it's design. It's another example of where the user experience was not at the core of their design philosophy.

Dropping your phone on the cement and breaking the screen is something that is not accounted for either. In this day and age of sending manned spaceships into the heavens surely we can design a phone that doesn't break when dropped. Just another example of where user experience is not at the core their design philosophy. Or maybe your example was really poor, because any of these devices can be damaged accidentally quickly and easily.

And this mentality is another major flaw of this forum - "I've never experienced this problem, therefore it doesn't exist".
Nothing hardware/software combination on the planet is perfect, they all have some bugs and/or errata. But there seems to be a liberal generalization of the scope of issues: "I know two people experiencing this and therefore the masses must be experiencing this and apple is going downhill and doesn't care about its customers anymore". False logic.

None of us actually do real world analysis, our opinions are based on our own experiences and the experiences of those close to us. I can say that at least 5 people close to me, in addition to me, have had major drama upgrading to new Apple products in the last 12 months. The baseline is that these same 5 people never had an issue in the 4 years prior. So in my sample, issues experienced with Apple upgrades are now much more frequent than they used to be. Of course this doesn't represent all of Apple's user base, but it certainly creates the perception among these people and the people they speak to that Apple's quality is indeed declining in quality.
This can certainly be spun any which way. My family and extended family are mostly iphone users and number about 40 people. There is no perception in this crowd that apple is anything but a top-notch company in all aspects; as at least 50% have a 6s or 6s+. Apple sold 74 million phones last quarter. Are you saying if they weren't declining they could have sold 80 or 90 million phones?
 
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Qbnkelt

macrumors 65816
Oct 15, 2015
1,058
994
Mid-Atlantic
I never said or alluded to anything of the sort.

The OP might have, and if he did, I don't agree.

I love my Apple products - like I've said many times, out of the available options, Apple still suits me best. I just miss that great easy and fun to use experience that had rock solid reliability.

I migrated from Windows to Apple for a reason - reliability, ease of use, and great design. All of those three categories have declined in quality - it doesn't mean I hate Apple or its products. I just want them to be as great as they once were and it gets on my nerves when you can't make critical comments here without being told to buy a different product.

That's the crux of the OP argument that I quoted.
You're actually happy with your 12" MacBook? No ports and an SD FaceTime cam?
You're happy with a 13" tablet that essentially runs a scaled up iPhone UI?
You can't seriously believe iOS and OS X are at their best right now. Since Forstall's untimely termination, we have seen a huge drop in software quality both on the design and performance ends. iOS has actually lowered itself to the level of Android and Windows since iOS 7.
I guess you'll buy and support anything with an Apple logo on it, no questions asked.

He dismissed and challenged one poster's positive experience simply because he disagreed, and concluded his post with the assertion that the particular poster who was happy with Apple products would be happy with any product with the Apple label.
That's what I challenged. The idea some posters have that they have the right to be negative yet no one has the right to say that they are positive about Apple products. They believe and assert that only dissent and negative criticism is acceptable.
I accept that people may be unhappy with Apple products. But I don't accept that I can't be happy with mine. And I especially don't accept that I would simply be happy with Apple products because of a label.
 
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aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
I love my Apple products - like I've said many times, out of the available options, Apple still suits me best. I just miss that great easy and fun to use experience that had rock solid reliability.

I migrated from Windows to Apple for a reason - reliability, ease of use, and great design. All of those three categories have declined in quality - it doesn't mean I hate Apple or its products. I just want them to be as great as they once were and it gets on my nerves when you can't make critical comments here without being told to buy a different product.
When was this "when everything was great" period of Apple that you're referring to?

From having read posts here virtually daily for over a decade, I can't remember any period of time where some people weren't having issues with Apple's products or services, or making points very similar to what you're saying now in 2016.

So during that time you were having "great, easy, fun to use" experiences and "rock solid reliability", there were people posting on here having the exact opposite experience with the same products that you were using.

Speaking specifically to rock solid reliability, when was the last time you've seen a major magazine (or website) write a review of an Apple product that went like this one MacWorld wrote back in 2003?

Quality-Control Issues

We can't check the vital signs of every computer Apple ships. We can, however, report on the quality of the PowerBooks we've received, and that report is not encouraging. Of six 15-inch PowerBooks Macworld ordered from a non-Apple retailer, three had to be returned. One repeatedly locked up and experienced kernel panics after being unplugged from an external monitor, another's fan ran constantly, and another displayed only the magenta video channel when plugged into an external display. So if you absolutely must have this PowerBook now, be prepared for potential problems.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1027456/15inchpowerbookg4s.html

iBooks from 2001-2003 had enough issues with components failing on the logic board to get their own worldwide logic board repair extension program.

In 2006, a lot of MacBooks were affected by the "Random Shutdown Syndrome", where when a component inside got hot enough, the MacBook would turn off. This quality issue got enough traction that zdnet published an articletelling owners how to proactively check for it.

MacBook Pros were notorious for yellow tinted screens back in 2008, very similar to what's going on now (IMO). A MacRumors user, doing the same thing you are doing (return MBPs with yellow tinted screen) ended up getting banned from Amazon for life because of it. :/

In 2010, yellow tint issues were affecting iMacs, and it got a fair amount of coverage in the blogosphere:
Apple admits to yellow-tint iMac issues | Macworld
The Conclusion to the Faulty iMac Saga: The Beginning of the Fix - gizmodo
How to address a cracked, flickering, or yellow-tinted 27-inch iMac screen - cnet
Apple Acknowledges, Will Service iMac Screen Color Issues - gigaom
Apple Claims Display Issues on 27-Inch iMac Have Been Addressed - macrumors

There are other quality control snafus (from swelling batteries to bad capacitors in iMacs to hi-res G4 screens with horizontal banding issues) to pad between the dates above, but I think enough is listed to demonstrate that quality issues and Apple aren't anything new and happened well before the reign of Tim Cook.
 

Qbnkelt

macrumors 65816
Oct 15, 2015
1,058
994
Mid-Atlantic
I dont disagree with the OP. I like my Apple gear, but I am confronted by threads of issues, bugs and so on. The previous comment alluding that Apple quality is so great, isn't true. Generally Very Good is max points I will give. Its also not about Steve Jobs. His way was GREAT quality and simple. Now we have very good quality generally, and much more useful. Why so many issues and bugs exist is due to TC, its his watch. Yes antenna gate was there but these days, you read threads after a release to avoid buying problems. The board TOLD TC to innovate, which is saying make money. He did, and they did, at the expense of rushed out products. If Apple was ever a 9.9, now they are a 7.9, and thats ok with me. I use my phone, not aura, so when the aura fades, I'm ok with that.
[doublepost=1457515319][/doublepost]
His post was more about the reaction of defenders. He made some points, I just did too. But they will be defended, not debated, discussed. Its like a negative comment is heresy, verboten, etc, etc. On one side he's a complainer, and the other comments are the defender at all costs. So while its not a bad or forbidden topic, it can't be discussed. There are many many many other threads about Apple quality he and others can go to.

And he is an Apple user, doing forget that. He sees standards slipping, others either don't have that opinion, or wont ever have that opinion

And I disagree with both the OP and the premise that Apple quality is not excellent and customer service is not excellent. I have not had one single problem with my Apple products. Why am I not able to say that without being discounted? My experience is Excellent. Not Very Good. If 100 our of 100 Apple products that I have bought and used have been problem free, why would I not give them an Excellent review? My experience is not defined by what I read on the internet of people who may have problems, my experience is what I experience first hand on my devices and if that's 100/100, then that's excellent.
It may be in vogue to criticise Apple. It may be in vogue to complain about Apple. But I won't let anyone on any forum tell me that my experience is not true.
If I had any problems with Apple products, I'd buy something else, I wouldn't go bemoaning o woe is me unto the Heavens on public forums while continuing to buy their products.
 
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QuantumLo0p

macrumors 6502a
Apr 28, 2006
992
30
U.S.A.
And I disagree with both the OP and the premise that Apple quality is not excellent and customer service is not excellent. I have not had one single problem with my Apple products. Why am I not able to say that without being discounted? My experience is Excellent. Not Very Good. If 100 our of 100 Apple products that I have bought and used have been problem free, why would I not give them an Excellent review? My experience is not defined by what I read on the internet of people who may have problems, my experience is what I experience first hand on my devices and if that's 100/100, then that's excellent.
It may be in vogue to criticise Apple. It may be in vogue to complain about Apple. But I won't let anyone on any forum tell me that my experience is not true.
If I had any problems with Apple products, I'd buy something else, I wouldn't go bemoaning o woe is me unto the Heavens on public forums while continuing to buy their products.

While it may be true your experience has been 100% on the rainbow unicorn scale it is completely accurate, and fair, to state this is not the case with everyone. Everyone who falls in the latter is entitled to excellent follow up support. While I feel it is not fair to make a negative blanket statement about Apple which is not warranted nor should we make outlandish 100% satification blanket statements either.
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
The pencil is another half baked idea. A cap that you can lose easily. Yuck.

So, how would u do it?

I I doubt people actually asked iOS to be updated.... They complained, but even if users never complained, iOS would still be updated...

You can't have the same old design going on for 10+ years, it starts to look dull. so even without the Apple users, it would have still changed anyway. Plus everyone would leave Apple otherwise, for other products because they look better if iOS was dull. so it'd basically driven by users.. weather complaining or not...

Apple has to keep us happy... and if they listened to uses, they would keep *everyone* happy... which is impossible for any company to do.
 

ardchoille50

macrumors 68020
Feb 6, 2014
2,142
1,231
I have made a few threads with some legitimate concerns regarding the decline of Apple's software quality and obviously the fanboys come out in droves to tell me to "go get Android" or "download an alternative 3rd party app" which neither solves the actual issue at hand. I'm constantly being told that my complaints and concerns are invalid and that the thread should be locked.
Constructive criticism is allowed on these forums, I've seen it here. The key is for that criticism to actually be constructive. A complaint should include the main issue, as well as possible resolutions, without name-calling and gross generalizations. The choice of words and phrasing in the OP will almost always determine the temperature of the replies. Before hitting the Reply button, we need to ask ourselves how the post will be seen by others and also remind ourselves that not everyone will agree with it. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
 

Qbnkelt

macrumors 65816
Oct 15, 2015
1,058
994
Mid-Atlantic
While it may be true your experience has been 100% on the rainbow unicorn scale it is completely accurate, and fair, to state this is not the case with everyone. Everyone who falls in the latter is entitled to excellent follow up support. While I feel it is not fair to make a negative blanket statement about Apple which is not warranted nor should we make outlandish 100% satification blanket statements either.

And within your own post, you utilise language to discount and mock an experience that is not negative.
I don't believe in unicorns but I have seen plenty of rainbows. And while it not be your experience to give a positive review, it is mine. And mine has no less value than yours.

My experience with Apple products may be outlandish to you. But *because* my experience *is* 100/100, I continue to buy them.

I have never needed to return a device. I have never had a device brick. I have never had a device become unusable. When I've had questions, twice, a call to Apple resolved them, on the spot.

Would it be more palatable to you if I created some fictional problem to satisfy your need to contradict my positive experience? Sadly, I won't comply.

It is *because* I am completely satisfied with Apple that I use their products. Conversely, because I am completely dissatisfied with Samsung and BlackBerry, I don't use their products. Why would anyone do otherwise?

If you wish to characterise experiences that don't comply with you as fantastical mythical creatures, you will find push back. But I suppose that receiving such push back and the ensuing drama is what you seek. Congratulations on your achievement.
 

BillyMatt87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 23, 2013
636
823
So, how would u do it?

I I doubt people actually asked iOS to be updated.... They complained, but even if users never complained, iOS would still be updated...

You can't have the same old design going on for 10+ years, it starts to look dull. so even without the Apple users, it would have still changed anyway. Plus everyone would leave Apple otherwise, for other products because they look better if iOS was dull. so it'd basically driven by users.. weather complaining or not...

Apple has to keep us happy... and if they listened to uses, they would keep *everyone* happy... which is impossible for any company to do.

Change for the sake of change is never a good thing, especially if the person in question changing the look had no prior experience design software. If iOS 7 was less radical of a redesign and something more moderate and familiar but cleaned up, a la OS X Mavericks, nobody would have an issue. That's the route Apple should've gone down, just remove the unnecessary textures and gloss and call it a day!
[doublepost=1457550502][/doublepost]
Maybe the repeated use of the term "fanboy" has something to do with it..

Well maybe if I wasn't constantly told to go switch to Android, I wouldn't have a reason to use that term.

Apple stooping to the level of their competitors as they been doing as of recent is something I'd never expected them to do. They're still better than their competition but only marginally as opposed to the leaps and bounds of previous years.
 

AZhappyjack

Suspended
Jul 3, 2011
10,184
23,659
Happy Jack, AZ
Change for the sake of change is never a good thing, especially if the person in question changing the look had no prior experience design software. If iOS 7 was less radical of a redesign and something more moderate and familiar but cleaned up, a la OS X Mavericks, nobody would have an issue. That's the route Apple should've gone down, just remove the unnecessary textures and gloss and call it a day!
[doublepost=1457550502][/doublepost]

Well maybe if I wasn't constantly told to go switch to Android, I wouldn't have a reason to use that term.

Apple stooping to the level of their competitors as they been doing as of recent is something I'd never expected them to do. They're still better than their competition but only marginally as opposed to the leaps and bounds of previous years.

iOS 7 was definitely a shift of design, but to say the person in charge of design should not be, well, that's up to Apple's management (read "Tim Cook") to decide. Whether or not one continues to support Apple and buy their devices because of a design choice, well, that's up the the customer. "Radical" design is great if you like the result, not so much if you don't. We can all agree that the original iPhone was a "radical" design for a cellphone. It clearly changed the way they look and function today. Was that "radical" design a bad thing? Did it go too far?

At the end of the day, only you can decide if you will continue feeding the Apple beast. But if not, then "go buy something else" is your only option.

Still not sure where Apple is "stooping to the level of their competitors" came from... or in what way you think it to be so.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,216
Gotta be in it to win it
Change for the sake of change is never a good thing, especially if the person in question changing the look had no prior experience design software. If iOS 7 was less radical of a redesign and something more moderate and familiar but cleaned up, a la OS X Mavericks, nobody would have an issue. That's the route Apple should've gone down, just remove the unnecessary textures and gloss and call it a day!
[doublepost=1457550502][/doublepost]

Well maybe if I wasn't constantly told to go switch to Android, I wouldn't have a reason to use that term.

Apple stooping to the level of their competitors as they been doing as of recent is something I'd never expected them to do. They're still better than their competition but only marginally as opposed to the leaps and bounds of previous years.
Appears your emotionally invested in a conglomerate; which is not a good thing.

And whatever wrongs (or rights) you think they did most people don't care. They like the products and they buy them.
 
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BillyMatt87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 23, 2013
636
823
Appears your emotionally invested in a conglomerate; which is not a good thing.

And whatever wrongs (or rights) you think they did most people don't care. They like the products and they buy them.

Keep citing sales figures as long as you want but it's already started to slow down, especially with iPhone sales. Even Apple has admitted that they've probably peaked. If the iPhone 7 receives huge backlash for removing the headphone jack (they rightfully should if they do something as foolish as that) and the sales suffer because of it, how else will you prove that Tim Cook's Apple is so friggin' incredible? That's literally you're only argument every time I make valid counterpoints.

I would only consider Apple to be a conglomerate now since they're trying to branch out and do way too much: fashion and electric cars, etc.

They used to be a company that only entered and disrupted particular product categories if they had a valid reason to, now they seem to be doing so only to catch up to their competitors. The Apple of Tim Cook are not leaders, they're followers. The idea of thinking different at Apple is dead and buried.
[doublepost=1457552461][/doublepost]
iOS 7 was definitely a shift of design, but to say the person in charge of design should not be, well, that's up to Apple's management (read "Tim Cook") to decide. Whether or not one continues to support Apple and buy their devices because of a design choice, well, that's up the the customer. "Radical" design is great if you like the result, not so much if you don't. We can all agree that the original iPhone was a "radical" design for a cellphone. It clearly changed the way they look and function today. Was that "radical" design a bad thing? Did it go too far?

Tim Cook has a recent track record of hiring unqualified people who may be talented in completely different aspects. Not just Jony Ive, current Retail VP Angela Ahrendtz is trying to turn Apple into some sort of luxury fashion empire like her previous Burberry CEO gig. I've noticed that since she came on board, the Black Friday Deals vanished, the Back to School promo became quite stingy and product launch after product launch became completely botched. The smart thing would've been to have Ron Johnson return after his brief stint as CEO of JC Penny.

Sure, the original iPhone was radical but in a good and innovative way. It knocked the entire industry on its side in a way that Apple cant seem to do anymore. iOS 7, like many recent Apple releases, is a me-too product. Apple had their own distant design identity until Jony decided that they needed to copy the flat designs of Google and Microsoft. It was radical in all the wrong ways.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
Change for the sake of change is never a good thing, especially if the person in question changing the look had no prior experience design software. If iOS 7 was less radical of a redesign and something more moderate and familiar but cleaned up, a la OS X Mavericks, nobody would have an issue. That's the route Apple should've gone down, just remove the unnecessary textures and gloss and call it a day!
[doublepost=1457550502][/doublepost]

Well maybe if I wasn't constantly told to go switch to Android, I wouldn't have a reason to use that term.

Apple stooping to the level of their competitors as they been doing as of recent is something I'd never expected them to do. They're still better than their competition but only marginally as opposed to the leaps and bounds of previous years.
It all kind of feels like dealing with someone that has grown up and lamenting the days (if not simply just an imagined perception) of when they were a cute and innocent child.
 
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yep-sure

macrumors 6502
Sep 21, 2012
495
564
Melbourne, Australia
There are other quality control snafus (from swelling batteries to bad capacitors in iMacs to hi-res G4 screens with horizontal banding issues) to pad between the dates above, but I think enough is listed to demonstrate that quality issues and Apple aren't anything new and happened well before the reign of Tim Cook.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against. I don't see any post in this thread stating "before Tim Cook, there were no issues".

In Technology, there will always be defects. I'm arguing about design philosophy and how user experience has seemingly been pushed to the side lines. Bad capacitors in iMacs is a little different than an iPhone bending when you put it in your pocket.

Random shutdowns of your PowerBook due to overheating are a little different than instant eyestrain fro using Yosemite/El Capitan.

The "great user experience" and "rock solid reliability" that I talk about was what Apple was once known for and was the main reason many migrated to them after years of battling with Windows and their over complicated Nokias. Were there still issues and defects with Apple products at the time? Of course there were, but they were the exception, not the rule, and they were often the result of hardware or component failure, not poor design choices.
 
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aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
The "great user experience" and "rock solid reliability" that I talk about was what Apple was once known for and was the main reason many migrated to them after years of battling with Windows and their over complicated Nokias. Were there still issues and defects with Apple products at the time? Of course there were, but they were the exception, not the rule, and they were often the result of hardware or component failure, not poor design choices.
Poor design choices, like the scratch-prone metal the first iPad nanos were made out off? PowerBook hinges breaking because they were too small, in an effort to make a smaller notebook? Or PowerBooks overheating and shutting down due to poor thermal management, from Apple wanting to lower the noise of fans? Or the eyestrain people suffered when Apple removed the option for matte displays in their notebook line? The complete rewrite of iMovie under Jobs, launching the new version with so few features that they had to make the old version available again? Do we even mention the Final Cut X fiasco or the MobileMe launch? There are many design-related decisions Apple has made (pre-Tim Cook) that have negatively impacted both "user experience" and "rock solid reliability".

Were you not an Apple customer when Leopard and Mavericks were released? Search the forums here. "Great user experience" and "rock solid reliability" were not terms used by most until the .3 or .4 releases.

That's Apple. They've never been perfect, IMO. They've always had times when they've shot themselves in the foot. Jobs/Cook/whomever.

I don't have any problems with people criticizing Apple. I do think some folks (in general) are being a bit disingenuous with their posts, talking about things of late without any acknolwedgement of how things went in the years before.
 

AZhappyjack

Suspended
Jul 3, 2011
10,184
23,659
Happy Jack, AZ
Keep citing sales figures as long as you want but it's already started to slow down, especially with iPhone sales. Even Apple has admitted that they've probably peaked. If the iPhone 7 receives huge backlash for removing the headphone jack (they rightfully should if they do something as foolish as that) and the sales suffer because of it, how else will you prove that Tim Cook's Apple is so friggin' incredible? That's literally you're only argument every time I make valid counterpoints.

I would only consider Apple to be a conglomerate now since they're trying to branch out and do way too much: fashion and electric cars, etc.

They used to be a company that only entered and disrupted particular product categories if they had a valid reason to, now they seem to be doing so only to catch up to their competitors. The Apple of Tim Cook are not leaders, they're followers. The idea of thinking different at Apple is dead and buried.
[doublepost=1457552461][/doublepost]

Tim Cook has a recent track record of hiring unqualified people who may be talented in completely different aspects. Not just Jony Ive, current Retail VP Angela Ahrendtz is trying to turn Apple into some sort of luxury fashion empire like her previous Burberry CEO gig. I've noticed that since she came on board, the Black Friday Deals vanished, the Back to School promo became quite stingy and product launch after product launch became completely botched. The smart thing would've been to have Ron Johnson return after his brief stint as CEO of JC Penny.

Sure, the original iPhone was radical but in a good and innovative way. It knocked the entire industry on its side in a way that Apple cant seem to do anymore. iOS 7, like many recent Apple releases, is a me-too product. Apple had their own distant design identity until Jony decided that they needed to copy the flat designs of Google and Microsoft. It was radical in all the wrong ways.

Who Tim Cook hires (or doesn't hire) is up to him. Whether or not he succeeds will ultimately be decided by Apple's board of directors, and strongly influenced by the shareholders.

Jony Ive was hired by Steve Jobs, and put in charge of product design before Steve passed. Cook promoted him, and again, feel free to criticize that promotion, but how that turns out will be on Cook.

Angela Ahrendts was hired by Cook. She was quite successful at Burberry, and her impact on Apple is still to be seen. Interesting that you are lobbying for the return of Ron Johnson as head of retail. He did well at Apple, but went to JCPenney where he crashed and burned. His style was not right for what the management at JCPenney wanted - he wanted to kill off all the coupons and sales and adjust prices to reflect overall value, rather than have inflated prices and coupons, sales and special deals. His style and methods clashed with the expectations of Penney's customer base - not unlike the situation with Ahrendts and Apple. Just because there wasn't an immediate meshing of Ahrendts and Apple doesn't mean it's a bad hire - and just because Cook has not relieved Ahrendts of her duties doesn't mean that Cook has failed anyone. Give it time. Clearly Apple's sales figures and revenue are positive and the Apple board does not seem to be anxious about her. FWIW, Apple never did anything significant for Black Friday. Also, the back to school promo has been on the downturn for years... you used to get a $300 iPod with the purchase of a new Mac... then a $100 iTunes gift card... so not sure that I'd pin that totally on Ahrendts.

With regard to the original iPhone, you admit that it was "radical", but quickly add "in a good way". Not sure what that means or how to address that. It was different. People "ooohed" and "ahhhed" over it. Other companies started copying the design. And it has changed the industry. As far as Ive copying the "flat designs of Google and Microsoft", I would point out that design changes over time. The art deco of the '50s in south Florida was popular for a time. So were paisley prints, madras prints, etc. Apple had it's period of strong skeumorphic design, and eventually moved on to something new. Compare that evolution with comments of those who claimed that look was old and stale.

Finally, with regards to your first comment about Apple sales figures showing a slow-down... there could easily be a number of reasons for that. First, is saturation. Almost everyone I know has a relatively new cell phone - whether it's iOS or android based, most that I know and see are 2 years old at most. The carriers have moved away from 2-year contracts with subsidized equipment - meaning that we are all paying full price for our devices now (not that we weren't previously, but the true cost of those devices was hidden from the average user) - whether outright or via what is essentially an interest free loan. It's hard to justify $650-$1000 every year for a new device when the one you have still functions perfectly well.

The key is a diversified array of devices ranging from iPods, iPhones and various iterations and sizes of iPads, to Macs of various designs, the Apple Watch, and the ancillary devices like AppleTV, Airport routers, keyboards, mice, etc.

As far as what happens to Cook when the iPhone 7 launches, well, that will be on him. But despite the sales slow down, every time Apple launches a new iPhone, it has set sales records and obliterated old iPhone sales figures. I doubt this year will be any different. But, good or bad, it will be on Tim Cook.

You can see my comments as defending Apple if you wish, but I am merely trying to engage in the discussion. I use Apple products because they work for me. I am critical of the things that bug me (iTunes, issues with being unable to easily and intelligently share a common set of Contacts with my wife, etc), and don't consider myself a "fanboy"... but neither am I a basher and complainer for the sake of bashing and complaining.
 
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Jayderek

macrumors 6502
Jun 28, 2010
473
838
Madison, WI
It all kind of feels like dealing with someone that has grown up and lamenting the days when they were a cute and innocent child.

you've nailed it perfectly.
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Well maybe if I wasn't constantly told to go switch to Android, I wouldn't have a reason to use that term.

You wouldn't be told to switch to Android so often if you weren't constantly complaining and refusing to acknowledge that people actually DO have good experiences with their products. No company is perfect. Not even your former Apple run by Steve Jobs on the back of a unicorn, shooting rainbows out of his fingertips.

Do you know what most people do when they are dealing with products that aren't to their liking? We stop using them and move on.

You do nothing on this board but complain...is it that difficult to realize that maybe Apple isn't for you anymore? There are so many other options out there.
 
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gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
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- Apple redesigned iOS to spite Forstall and whitewash his contributions to the company. Ironically, we're approaching the point where the current UI is starting to look stale and outdated. It won't be long until everyone is clamoring for another redesign.
In the thread title, you mention "constructively criticising Apple". I can't quite find where you are doing that.
 
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