Why is constructively criticizing Apple not allowed on this forum?

[ShikariMR]

At the risk of sounding like a Spock-clone "Fascinating!"


I had seven years in the UK motor industry at a time when every motorcycle in our showrooms (well over 200 in stock) was British-made. New cars were still 'rationed' to compel export earnings. The day we parked our first Jaguar XK120 in front of one of our showrooms the Police asked us to move it and let the traffic pass, such was the crowd. . I went on to sales promotion and public relations for Jaguar in London. Sir William Lyons, Jaguar's founder, looked like my Grandfather's twin brother.

Every adult male I knew as a kid was a highly skilled crfatsman. Guess what my skilled engineer Grandpa did? He designed beautiful custom Rolls Royce and Bentley cars for the super rich. My Dad, who called himself a 'tin basher' was actually a top flight coachbuilder on those same cars.

Know what was different in those days? Men like William Lyons took crucial decisions on their own iniitiatve - in seconds.

Men ran companies bearing thier own names in their own ways. They were risk takers and decision makers by instinct.

Now? Massed ranks of Committee Men, Seminar Attenders, Focus Group dummies; Marketing Consultnts - yeuk. Lobbyists - double yeuk. Name your own time-server Politicians if you will.

Who had the vision to set up the Apples, the Boeings, the railroads... heck; you alll know the answers to that.

If you want clear visions, initiatives, courage, great innovation, concepts, and design do not bloody well let great entrprises fall into the clammy hands of shareholders, pension funds, investment bankers, short-sighted play-safers.

"A Committee is a collection of people who can indivually do nothing - who meet to decide jointly that nothing can be done."

On top of which they now have to get it passed by a Shareholders' Annual General Meeting. (Better play safe).

I never thought I would feel a knd of gratitude to the Luftwaffe who put so much effort into trying to kill me and my generation. But after that, what was there more to fear?

"My life has been a series of terrible disasters - none of which actually happened."

Truthfully, some of them actually did happen . But who gets anywhere by running scared?

 

[I7guy]

Keep citing sales figures as long as you want but it's already started to slow down, especially with iPhone sales. Even Apple has admitted that they've probably peaked. If the iPhone 7 receives huge backlash for removing the headphone jack (they rightfully should if they do something as foolish as that) and the sales suffer because of it, how else will you prove that Tim Cook's Apple is so friggin' incredible? That's literally you're only argument every time I make valid counterpoints.

I would only consider Apple to be a conglomerate now since they're trying to branch out and do way too much: fashion and electric cars, etc.

They used to be a company that only entered and disrupted particular product categories if they had a valid reason to, now they seem to be doing so only to catch up to their competitors. The Apple of Tim Cook are not leaders, they're followers. The idea of thinking different at Apple is dead and buried.
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Tim Cook has a recent track record of hiring unqualified people who may be talented in completely different aspects. Not just Jony Ive, current Retail VP Angela Ahrendtz is trying to turn Apple into some sort of luxury fashion empire like her previous Burberry CEO gig. I've noticed that since she came on board, the Black Friday Deals vanished, the Back to School promo became quite stingy and product launch after product launch became completely botched. The smart thing would've been to have Ron Johnson return after his brief stint as CEO of JC Penny.

Sure, the original iPhone was radical but in a good and innovative way. It knocked the entire industry on its side in a way that Apple cant seem to do anymore. iOS 7, like many recent Apple releases, is a me-too product. Apple had their own distant design identity until Jony decided that they needed to copy the flat designs of Google and Microsoft. It was radical in all the wrong ways.

So how do you know sales are slowing? Can you point me to a source that cites ytd figures? Didn't think so. Sales, profits what else would you use to measure a company?

Also, get back to me after the backlash on the iPhone 7 headphone jack removal as Apple once agains breaks sales records.

 

[fanboi4lyfe]

The OP does bring up some solid points in terms of some Apple software not being up to their par... but the way he is going all about it is why he is probably getting so much flak and "switch to Android then" comments.

Also, it's fair to say that part of the issue is that Apple has brought this gold standard upon itself. They market iOS and OS X as the best software platforms out there, but when there are a few bugs here and there they find themselves with more people having issues. Also, Apple as a company has grown so much that there are well over 700 million active Apple users now, so the more people they have testing their product and using it in daily life the more bugs can be exposed. This was not the case with Jobs' Apple as they hadn't had that many devices and users. Even though Jobs helped create the current Apple culture and "need" for their products. Just my thoughts on the topic.

 

[BillyMatt87]

So how do you know sales are slowing? Can you point me to a source that cites ytd figures? Didn't think so. Sales, profits what else would you use to measure a company?

Also, get back to me after the backlash on the iPhone 7 headphone jack removal as Apple once agains breaks sales records.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...irst-sales-drop-since-2003-on-iphone-slowdown

All good things must come to an end, I'm not an "Apple is doomed" naysayer or anything, but they've clearly peaked. I think Tim Cook's legacy will be defined by this very plateau. You can deny it all you want, but Apple had a really run but did you really expect it to last forever? I will say that Tim Cook, while he's no visionary, definitely kept the momentum going longer than any of us would've expected.

http://bgr.com/2016/01/07/iphone-7-headphone-jack-petition/

While the petition itself is based on an unconfirmed rumor, the very thought of Apple eschewing the headphone jack on the iPhone (while retaining it on the iPad for some reason) is definitely unsettling for many. This would force millions of people to either get an overpriced adapter or spend more $$$ on completely new headphones, earbuds, car stereo connectors, etc. Either way, Apple will profit from the lack of a still-vital industry standard. While we don't know for sure if Apple will take this route, this will definitely be a test of consumer loyalty as well as their patience considering the lightning connector was a difficult transition in itself, but removing the headphone jack is something entirely different as it's not an Apple exclusive port. Surely, there might be an exodus to Android phones, but moat people who already have iPhones might opt to hold on to their current model until it gives out and then look elsewhere. I honestly don't envision removing the 3.5mm headphone having a positive effect on sales or the quality of the device itself. Surely, the Apple faithful will buy and defend it, but the iPhone 7 might be that big turning point but we shall see...

 

[C DM]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...irst-sales-drop-since-2003-on-iphone-slowdown

All good things must come to an end, I'm not an "Apple is doomed" naysayer or anything, but they've clearly peaked. I think Tim Cook's legacy will be defined by this very plateau. You can deny it all you want, but Apple had a really run but did you really expect it to last forever? I will say that Tim Cook, while he's no visionary, definitely kept the momentum going longer than any of us would've expected.

http://bgr.com/2016/01/07/iphone-7-headphone-jack-petition/

While the petition itself is based on an unconfirmed rumor, the very thought of Apple eschewing the headphone jack on the iPhone (while retaining it on the iPad for some reason) is definitely unsettling for many. This would force millions of people to either get an overpriced adapter or spend more $$$ on completely new headphones, earbuds, car stereo connectors, etc. Either way, Apple will profit from the lack of a still-vital industry standard. While we don't know for sure if Apple will take this route, this will definitely be a test of consumer loyalty as well as their patience considering the lightning connector was a difficult transition in itself, but removing the headphone jack is something entirely different as it's not an Apple exclusive port. Surely, there might be an exodus to Android phones, but moat people who already have iPhones might opt to hold on to their current model until it gives out and then look elsewhere. I honestly don't envision removing the 3.5mm headphone having a positive effect on sales or the quality of the device itself. Surely, the Apple faithful will buy and defend it, but the iPhone 7 might be that big turning point but we shall see...

On the other hand, it seems like many people were likely thinking similar things at various times in the 90s (if not worse), and as we can see things didn't quite go down that path (and quite a bit the opposite of that).

 

[I7guy]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...irst-sales-drop-since-2003-on-iphone-slowdown

All good things must come to an end, I'm not an "Apple is doomed" naysayer or anything, but they've clearly peaked. I think Tim Cook's legacy will be defined by this very plateau. You can deny it all you want, but Apple had a really run but did you really expect it to last forever? I will say that Tim Cook, while he's no visionary, definitely kept the momentum going longer than any of us would've expected.

http://bgr.com/2016/01/07/iphone-7-headphone-jack-petition/

While the petition itself is based on an unconfirmed rumor, the very thought of Apple eschewing the headphone jack on the iPhone (while retaining it on the iPad for some reason) is definitely unsettling for many. This would force millions of people to either get an overpriced adapter or spend more $$$ on completely new headphones, earbuds, car stereo connectors, etc. Either way, Apple will profit from the lack of a still-vital industry standard. While we don't know for sure if Apple will take this route, this will definitely be a test of consumer loyalty as well as their patience considering the lightning connector was a difficult transition in itself, but removing the headphone jack is something entirely different as it's not an Apple exclusive port. Surely, there might be an exodus to Android phones, but moat people who already have iPhones might opt to hold on to their current model until it gives out and then look elsewhere. I honestly don't envision removing the 3.5mm headphone having a positive effect on sales or the quality of the device itself. Surely, the Apple faithful will buy and defend it, but the iPhone 7 might be that big turning point but we shall see...

That's what I thought. Nobody really knows until the first 2016 earnings call. But nice try anyway. Under TC's leadership apple has been on a wild ride starting with the 5s. So basically for years, people have predicting doom and gloom. You get enough people predicting an earthquake in San Francisco, eventually someone will be correct.

Rather than a cogent discussion, name calling: "apple faithful" is in order, which shows this post is as much internet fodder. And you are right, the iphone 7 might the turning point, but in such a way as can't be envisioned.

 

[aristobrat]

All good things must come to an end, I'm not an "Apple is doomed" naysayer or anything, but they've clearly peaked. I think Tim Cook's legacy will be defined by this very plateau.

Wonder if he'll get any credit for holding off launching the rumored new smaller/cheaper iPhone until this time. It'll undoubtedly add millions of new iPhone sales to this (and upcoming) quarters. Seems like a strategically timed move.

Surely, the Apple faithful will buy and defend it, but the iPhone 7 might be that big turning point but we shall see...

I don't get the whole "Apple faithful" thing.

IMO, the Apple brand has been a commodity for a few years now -- the norm, not the exception. Especially the iPhone. You see Apple products everywhere, to the point there's now often more personal cachet in NOT having a device with an Apple logo.

I really don't think there exists a group of people who continue to buy Apple, even though the products disappoint them. What do they get out of that? There have never been more decent (and less expensive) alternative choices when it comes to tablets, smartphones, and ultrabooks made by other manufacturers.

 

[BillyMatt87]

On the other hand, it seems like many people were likely thinking similar things at various times in the 90s (if not worse), and as we can see things didn't quite go down that path (and quite a bit the opposite of that).

Well Steve Jobs returned, that's the difference. We sadly don't have that fortune anymore but hey, maybe Scott Forstall will follow in his footsteps. He was, after all, the most Jobs-like executive on the team and both were unceremoniously fired and Forstall could return in a similar fashion down the road.

Maybe he will become CEO, you never know but it wouldn't be until well after Cook leaves and a handful of other like-minded, Sculley-esque CEOs turn Apple back into its 80s/90s self in a sense. Not saying they would go bankrupt again like that, I can't see that instance happening (their profits and stock price might decline) ealthough by that time, they'll lose a great deal of popularity and gain the reputation of boring, stagnant, etc. That's when they'll need to find that spark and drive for innovation and excitement again.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Well Steve Jobs returned, that's the difference. We sadly don't have that fortune anymore but hey, maybe Scott Forstall will follow in his footsteps. He was, after all, the most Jobs-like executive on the team and both were unceremoniously fired and Forstall could return in a similar fashion down the road.

Maybe he will become CEO, you never know but it wouldn't be until well after Cook leaves and a handful of other like-minded, Sculley-esque CEOs turn Apple back into its 80s/90s self in a sense. Not saying they would go bankrupt again like that, I can't see that instance happening (their profits and stock price might decline) ealthough by that time, they'll lose a great deal of popularity and gain the reputation of boring, stagnant, etc. That's when they'll need to find that spark and drive for innovation and excitement again.

Don't forget, for good or bad, Tim Cook was hand picked by Steve to be his successor.

 

[I7guy]

Don't forget, for good or bad, Tim Cook was hand picked by Steve to be his successor.

Doesn't seem bad at all. A healthy string of successes for a few years in a row. Posting repeatedly about how bad the current ceo is and how Apple lacks that spark is not going to change anything.

I like the job this guy has been doing.

 

[BillyMatt87]

Don't forget, for good or bad, Tim Cook was hand picked by Steve to be his successor.

Don't forget, Jobs also hand-picked John Sculley as CEO. Look how that turned out...

 

[AZhappyjack]

Doesn't seem bad at all. A healthy string of successes for a few years in a row. Posting repeatedly about how bad the current ceo is and how Apple lacks that spark is not going to change anything.

I like the job this guy has been doing.

I agree... Apple's market cap is higher than it ever was under Jobs... Apple has a few more products...

The OP reminds me of someone who, when handed $100 cash, would complain because it was five $20 bills instead of two $50 bills.

 

[C DM]

Well Steve Jobs returned, that's the difference. We sadly don't have that fortune anymore but hey, maybe Scott Forstall will follow in his footsteps. He was, after all, the most Jobs-like executive on the team and both were unceremoniously fired and Forstall could return in a similar fashion down the road.

Maybe he will become CEO, you never know but it wouldn't be until well after Cook leaves and a handful of other like-minded, Sculley-esque CEOs turn Apple back into its 80s/90s self in a sense. Not saying they would go bankrupt again like that, I can't see that instance happening (their profits and stock price might decline) ealthough by that time, they'll lose a great deal of popularity and gain the reputation of boring, stagnant, etc. That's when they'll need to find that spark and drive for innovation and excitement again.

Don't forget, Jobs also hand-picked John Sculley as CEO. Look how that turned out...

And there you have it, things have worked out all kinds of ways before, meaning that there's no way to say what it will all be like down the line. It's been great so far and seems like it's going to be quite good for the near future at least.

 

[pedrom]

I have made a few threads with some legitimate concerns regarding the decline of Apple's software quality and obviously the fanboys come out in droves to tell me to "go get Android" or "download an alternative 3rd party app" which neither solves the actual issue at hand. I'm constantly being told that my complaints and concerns are invalid and that the thread should be locked.

What kind of message does that say about Apple's most loyal and devoted? Any form of criticism and dissent needs to be quickly stamped out because Apple is all-knowing, all-wise, perfect and can do no wrong in their eyes. That's the exact mentality that has enabled Apple under Tim Cook to produce and release half-baked and ill-conceived products and services. In that way, hardcore Apple fans are just as radical as the most extreme Android users.

I will not apologize for holding Apple up to the standards that Steve set just as the fanboys will not apologize for Apple's recent and increasingly longer list of shortcomings and try to defend them and justify their decisions at every turn.

So that ultimately leads to the initial question and premise of this thread, is criticizing Apple no matter how legitimate or constructive seemingly banned here? I consider myself an Apple fan, one who has been highly disappointed with the direction they've been going in and some many here give Apple a free pass because they can't fathom a repeat of the 90s which seems more and more likely with each passing year of Tim Cook as CEO.

First things first:

Those that are loyal and devoted to the most lucrative public traded company of all time, or any other company, should be receiving some psychiatric treatment.

So take them out of the equation, they are not a factor. What is a factor is that you do not provide any substancial evidence to your statements, and seem so fragile and sensitive to every reaction that it bothers you to the point that you feel the need to create more threads, and so on.

Every forum has smart people, good people, dumb people, bad people. Deal with it. It's a ****ing forum, dude.

For someone like me, you seem to be in the same level of those that are loyal and devoted to companies. That isn't healthy. Apple gained my respect for everything they have done (and keep doing), but ultimately their products are the only thing I buy from them, and they must suit my needs better than those from competitors.

About the supposed decline in software quality, it's a non-issue. You should stop and think rationally about it. These days, everybody complains about Windows, about Android, About Chrome, About OS X, about Steam, about paid apps, about free apps, about Youtube, about Twitch.

Is everybody in decline? Hell no. What has changed is that today everybody can be "vocal" and leave reviews/discuss online, ironically because of the Internet expansion and Apple's influence on the mobile world, that keeps booming. Also, these days, everybody uses .0 versions of software, because they can updated immediately. No one gives a **** or remembers 10.6.0, or 10.5.0, or iOS 2.0.

Read the forums instead of saying non-sense. It's the exact same posts, the exact same ideas, on every single product, on every single update, on every single service. Read the original iPod and iPhone threads. They were stupid useless products and failures. Read about what a money grab Snow leopard was, how unstable it was, how Apple had lost it. Read about how Apple was "gone" when they removed the floppy. Read about how Apple is doomed when they change anything on any app.

People that like their products, people that are satisfied, rarely are vocal about it. They just use it. The same doesn't happen for those that have problems. You can figure the rest... The web isn't balanced.

So yeah, at the end of the day, if you don't like, if anything isn't working for you and there's no other way... What the **** are doing? Buy from some other company or something that works for you, like any adult/normal person would.

Anyway, Apple has never been better. El Cap is amazing and has made my MBAir a better product today than it was when I bought it.

 

[Qbnkelt]

I don't get the whole "Apple faithful" thing.

IMO, the Apple brand has been a commodity for a few years now -- the norm, not the exception. Especially the iPhone. You see Apple products everywhere, to the point there's now often more personal cachet in NOT having a device with an Apple logo.

I really don't think there exists a group of people who continue to buy Apple, even though the products disappoint them. What do they get out of that? There have never been more decent (and less expensive) alternative choices when it comes to tablets, smartphones, and ultrabooks made by other manufacturers.

Oh the "I'm SO disappointed in Apple yet I buy their products" crowd is alive and well and happily trolling Apple fansites.

They get to come in to tell us how disappointed they are. Out of that, they get to create drama. Out of that, they get validation in their quest to proclaim far and wide that their dull little lives have meaning because they have shown us, deluded Apple users who are happy with our devices, that they have intellectual superiority over us poor faithful who don't know any better.

I think that's it. Yup. That's what they get.

 

[andreyirra]

There is so much a phone can be improved. Of course it will have incremental enhacements instead of revolutionary implementations. The thing is that those enhacements have to be perfect. Look at the nromal phone. More than a century and it's basic design has changed so little. There came a time where the revolution came in the form of ditching the dial and using keys instead... making it wireless... but it's the same phone.

What do people want on a iPhone so it can be called revolutionary? I'd appreciate any examples.

As for Cook, i'm satisfied. It's just that he lacks the Reality Distortion Field and I can see transparently through him: the 16 gb and then the jump to 64 gb in capacity is an obvious strategy so people will pay more. It gets results but everyone knows why it was decided that way.

I also feel they have failed in communicating the uses of certain products: most people don't have en exact idea of what the Apple Watch does or why the Macbook is an excellent netbook but not a regular laptop.

They also failed to justify certain prices: The new magic mouse costs more just because they changed the charging interface but then you won't buy any more batteries.

 

[Qbnkelt]

What do people want on a iPhone so it cam be called revolutionary? I'd appreciate any examples.

.

Teleportation. That's the next big thing.

 

[Septembersrain]

Teleportation. That's the next big thing.

Holograms! I want to see the world in my apartment!

 

[AZhappyjack]

There is so much a phone can be improved. Of course it will have incremental enhacements instead of revolutionary implementations. The thing is that those enhacements have to be perfect. Look at the nromal phone. More than a century and it's basic design has changed so little. There came a time where the revolution came in the form of ditching the dial and using keys instead... making it wireless... but it's the same phone.

What do people want on a iPhone so it cam be called revolutionary? I'd appreciate any examples.

As for Cook, i'm satisfied. It's just that he lacks the Reality Distortion Field and I can see transparently through him: the 16 gb and then the jump to 64 gb in capacity is an obvious strategy so people will pay more. It gets results but everyone knows why it was decided that way.

I also feel they have failed in communicating the uses of certain products: most people don't have en exact idea of what the Apple Watch does or why the Macbook is an excellent netbook but not a regular laptop.

They also failed to justify certain prices: The new magic mouse costs more just because they changed the charging interface but then you won't buy any more batteries.

Not every thing about Apple is perfect - or even "good".

Regarding the 16gb base storage... there are plenty of people that I know, for whom 16gb is enough. Paying $100 for a jump from 16gb to 64gb is not that big of a deal, but there is definitely a good amount of profit in that jump. A smart company will charge the optimum amount for spec bumps to increase their bottom line. And for Apple to have upped the mid-tier storage from 32gb to 64gb demonstrates that they are not overly greedy (only moderately so).

I tend to look at some of Apple's new products as ground-breaking, and maybe even as "trial balloons". The Apple Watch came along after many other companies started selling smart watches. How does Apple's initial offering measure up? The answer to that question is incredibly subjective. For many, paying $350 and up to have text message notifications on your wrist is outrageous. For others, the way they use the product will dictate what they are willing to pay to get one.

The same with the new rMB. Clearly Apple has a specific target audience for that. It's not a powerful workhorse machine. It is somewhat crippled by the lack of ports, processing power, etc... but for someone who wants an incredibly portable computer for reading email, writing school papers, consuming media and surfing the internet, it's not that bad. It's a niche product, but may well be a functional prototype for future laptop design.

The Reality Distortion Field comment is interesting. I don't see Cook to be nearly as forceful and intimidating a figure as Jobs was. That said, however, Steve had his share of failures and "near misses". Just read the account of the engineers who worked on the original iPhone and how they sweated out the Apple keynote where Jobs introduced and demoed the device... it was very much "touch and go" all the way through the demo.

As I have stated several time in several threads, I use Apple devices because I've bought into the ecosystem and because they work for me. I will continue to purchase their devices as long as they continue to meet my needs. If/when that ends, so will my patronage.

 

[andreyirra]

...

I concur with everything you said. The language barrier may be stopping me from getting my message across

 

[t234b]

That's interesting (OP). I'm new here and haven't really experienced this. It seems like it is a site for fans so we'll try to justify things for sure. But I think tone counts for a lot, people might be able to tell that you 'hate' apple by a particular post, and then, well, yeh, you'll probably want to head to a site where feelings can be commiserated. Best!

 

[gnasher729]

Well Steve Jobs returned, that's the difference. We sadly don't have that fortune anymore but hey, maybe Scott Forstall will follow in his footsteps. He was, after all, the most Jobs-like executive on the team and both were unceremoniously fired and Forstall could return in a similar fashion down the road.

Forstall looks Jobs-like because he copied all the bad things about Jobs, but unfortunately left all the good bits out.
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Don't forget, Jobs also hand-picked John Sculley as CEO. Look how that turned out...

And since he did that, Steve Jobs had twenty years time to learn until he picked Tim Cook. Seems that Steve Jobs was actually capable of learning. Still looking for "constructive criticism".

 

[lowendlinux]

You're actually happy with your 12" MacBook? No ports and an SD FaceTime cam?

You're happy with a 13" tablet that essentially runs a scaled up iPhone UI?

You can't seriously believe iOS and OS X are at their best right now. Since Forstall's untimely termination, we have seen a huge drop in software quality both on the design and performance ends. iOS has actually lowered itself to the level of Android and Windows since iOS 7.

I guess you'll buy and support anything with an Apple logo on it, no questions asked.

The MacBook is the only Apple computer I'd buy. If you think of it as a mini version of the MBP it makes no sense but if you think of it as a tablet with the keyboard attached running OS X it makes sense.

 

[fanboi4lyfe]

The MacBook is the only Apple computer I'd buy. If you think of it as a mini version of the MBP it makes no sense but if you think of it as a tablet with the keyboard attached running OS X it makes sense.

Also.... isn't that the point of the many different product lines that Apple releases? Just because the MacBook doesn't suit your needs doesn't mean it's someone's favorite Apple computer. Just like people liking the iPhone 6S Plus over the 6S. Just because you don't like a bigger phone with a bigger battery and better overall performance vs. the 6S, you're actually happy with you 6S? I mean come on man.... that's the argument you are posing.

That is the point of this forum, opinion. I guess you'll b**ch and moan to anyone who supports Apple.

 

[BillyMatt87]

The MacBook is the only Apple computer I'd buy. If you think of it as a mini version of the MBP it makes no sense but if you think of it as a tablet with the keyboard attached running OS X it makes sense.

I feel as if the Mac lineup is the only product line Apple hasn't completely screwed up (yet)

Also.... isn't that the point of the many different product lines that Apple releases?

A bloated product lineup is partly why Apple became so troublesome in the 90s, they were trying to do way too much. Remember how streamlined the lineup was under Jobs? Now look at it again under Cook, back to the bloated mess from before. And people wonder why I accuse Cook of mostly focusing on maximizing profits instead of focusing on making the best quality products imaginable.