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Why is the MP so expensive?
- Thread starter Loa
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Has anyone looked at where their Mac Pro is "assembled"? The one I bought last year is "assembled in USA". I don't know what factor labor costs in putting these together, but I'm sure it's more than China.
On another note, it would be nice for the middle user if there were an iMac level desktop that was as easy to upgrade as a Mac Pro. All we've really got is the "work station/server" level Mac Pro. The rest are not intended to be user upgradeable other than RAM. Would there be a market for something in the middle?
On another note, it would be nice for the middle user if there were an iMac level desktop that was as easy to upgrade as a Mac Pro. All we've really got is the "work station/server" level Mac Pro. The rest are not intended to be user upgradeable other than RAM. Would there be a market for something in the middle?
Price difference isn't as much as people think on NEW Macs.
On used vs used, it's huge.
You can get spec'd HP xw8400s for 100-300 on eBay, while a similar MAcPro costs in the range of 1000 - 1500.
Like right now, mp dual core 5160 is selling for 250. Can step up to quads for about 500-600 with a xw8600.
http://stores.ebay.com/prowlerguy111/_i.html?_nkw=Xw8400&submit=Search&_sid=203222148
Mac resale is incredible.
Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk
On used vs used, it's huge.
You can get spec'd HP xw8400s for 100-300 on eBay, while a similar MAcPro costs in the range of 1000 - 1500.
Like right now, mp dual core 5160 is selling for 250. Can step up to quads for about 500-600 with a xw8600.
http://stores.ebay.com/prowlerguy111/_i.html?_nkw=Xw8400&submit=Search&_sid=203222148
Mac resale is incredible.
Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk
it should be noted that the Dell price includes a discount , which apple never seems to do.
If each computer used a custom CPU, then your comparison would have merit. But we're talking about computer vendors that use identical CPU's from Intel.
All the MP's are made in China (Hon Hai Precision, aka Foxconn, is the ODM supplier to Apple for the MP - the actual production and assembly work is done in Shenzen, though the company is headquartered in Taiwan).
The final assembly for a CTO would be done in the USA for an order meant to be delivered in North America. For Europe, it's done in Ireland.
Dell, HP and other PC vendors are willing to use discounts and/or incentives to help move systems, and I've even gotten better pricing over the phone than the web site on numerous occasions over the years.
So picking up the phone would be a good idea IMO.
I'm not so sure about that one, unless it's changed in recent years. My 2008 MP (stock 8-core 2.8, bought right off the shelf) was assembled in the USA, according to the decal on the bottom.
Not sure this is universally true. I've purchased a personal CTO 12-core last year, and 3 more for business use this year, and all of them were "assembled" in Shenzhen (which really amounts to what exactly, popping in 5870s and upping the base 2.66 to 2.93s in two cases). <-- not done in USA though, tracking just showed direct hop to Anchorage, and delivery, in all cases.
Agreed, other than the random Best Buy/Walmart unloading iCrap at below cost, every single human being who can flash any kind of college ID, gets a discount at every single Apple store on Earth. If you're buying personally, you can also get the rather nice 25% EPP discount if you happen to do work for Apple (or have a friend who does). If you want something which is in short supply/white-hot, you may have to wait a month or two before the EPP has it; but Mac Pros are always available immediately, it's not like there is a mass stampede to buy the things and highly limited supply with overwhelming demand <-- has never happened in the past half decade. 25% off an iPhone or iPad, amounts to meh, but chop that price off a Mac Pro loaded up with ACDs, and it's pretty significant.
While the EPP may not be a viable option for most people, as nanofrog said, you'd be surprised what just picking up the phone and talking with a human being can accomplish (especially if you are making corporate purchases), and if none of the previous apply, surely you can find one college student/faculty member somewhere within your social circle (please insert avalanche of, "ohhhhhh, you're a bad bad bad person, nobody should do that, it's morally and ethically wrong!" rants [here]. The response to which is, from my end anyway <shrug> I don't really care, and I'm a shareholder with a f--kton of Apple stock, feel free to notify the karma police, a hall monitor, and your mom).
You can add these and still save over 1000$ over a Mac Pro.
But you can't even run two higher-end GPUs in the Mac Pro
It doesn't really matter how big the PSU is when you can't use its power. It's not like the 525W isn't capable of running the Dell T3500. And the Dell would still end up being around 1000$ cheaper.
Why is the MP so expensive?
Higher margins.
Lower volume to spread R&D costs over.
Nice aluminum case.
Apple logo.
Higher margins.
Lower volume to spread R&D costs over.
Nice aluminum case.
Apple logo.
what even a bigger kick in the head is they have the new E3 xeon's in their new T1600 mini workstation as an option.
Apple shifted to Foxconn as their sole ODM for the MP in 2009.
I'm going by what I've seen and had access to in recent years. Either you experienced an exception rather than the general rule, such as insufficient stock at the CTO facility (IIRC, they've even used spare parts to build an entire machine to get an order shipped in one instance I'm aware of), or they're shifting away from the previous methodology in favor of using Shenzen for all of it due to the cheap labor (this wouldn't surprise me actually).
The fact there are CTO facilities located in both the US and Ireland are a shock to me, due to the labor costs manufacturers complain so bitterly about.
You are not comparing like with like. The comparable model to a Mac Pro is the Dell Precision T5500 and specced up the Dell is about $1,000 more than the Mac Pro.
You are not comparing like with like. The comparable model to a Mac Pro is the Dell Precision T5500 and specced up the Dell is about $1,000 more than the Mac Pro.
He is comparing like with like!
The comparable model to the base Mac Pro (SP workstation) is the T3500.
The comparable model to the MP Mac Pro is the T5500.
You are not comparing like with like. The comparable model to a Mac Pro is the Dell Precision T5500 and specced up the Dell is about $1,000 more than the Mac Pro.
The T5500 is a dual socket system.
You are not comparing like with like. The comparable model to a Mac Pro is the Dell Precision T5500 and specced up the Dell is about $1,000 more than the Mac Pro.
If you actually read the earlier posts, you would know that this is false. T5500 is a dual socket machine using Xeon 5000-series CPU and that is comparable to 8-core and 12-core Mac Pro, not SP Mac Pro. T3500 is a single socket system which uses the exactly same Xeon 3000-series CPUs as the SP Mac Pro.
EDIT: Damn you guys are quick today
But you can't even run two higher-end GPUs in the Mac Pro
Just because you can't legally drive a Farrari over 200MPH does not mean it does not have value or worth more. Been hearing of people who use power splitters to power two cards, but don't know much about it.
Anyone item in itself will is not going to be worth $1000.00, but you start to include all these items, it adds up pretty quickly.
Aluminum is a lot more expensive metal then steel & plastic.
How about running two high end video cards running at full load for a long period of time?
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It's been done before, but users have to be careful due to how much current is drawn from each rail (+12V). Pull too much current from any rail, and you will trip protection circuits at best, and possibly even blow the PSU. If the latter happens, you could damage other parts of the system.
What makes this harder in the MP, is I don't recall any information as to what the current limit is, or trace out which rail is which.
Aluminum may be more expensive than steel, but there's not enough of it to remotely justify an additional $1k on an SP Mac Pro. Not even adding in the cost difference between the PSU's (btw, you can spec out a larger PSU in the Dell's, and it's mandatory with some options IIRC).
In terms of reliability, we're talking about workstations, which are designed to be more reliable than desktops (tend to see things like better cooling, layout, ... vs. desktop counterparts).
True, it may not be the best to split out power from one rail. But you can easily put in two NVIDIA Quadro 4000 in a single system, which is a pro level graphics card.
nVidia claims 142W for a Quadro 4000, and PNY for example, has it at 152W. Either way, this is less power than some gaming cards pull, and is why it's possible to use 2x of them in a MP.
BTW, it's ~110W or so more under full load for a pair of 5770's than a pair of Quadro 4000's.
nVidia claims 142W for a Quadro 4000, and PNY for example, has it at 152W. Either way, this is less power than some gaming cards pull, and is why it's possible to use 2x of them in a MP.
BTW, it's ~110W or so more under full load for a pair of 5770's than a pair of Quadro 4000's.
Works good as a space heater hear in the Great White North eh!
Now you've made me hate you.Works good as a space heater hear in the Great White North eh!
I live in a hot climate, and have to use a window AC in the computer room/office just to handle the heat off of a system running a single GPU (4870, so nothing insane either). 
On the low end, yes, Mac Pro's are overpriced. But after you go dual socket and factor in a case that isn't all plastic crap (some kind of style to it) you pay the same. OP is, like so many others, just wishing for a slimmed down i7 desktop with easy access and PCI expansion. Apple just doesn't make those atm and hasn't really ever. PPC vs. Intel is too apples and oranges to compare. I can barely build a system myself with sale parts under dual socket Mac Pro prices. Well, maybe I can now as the Mac's are 250 days old and Sandy Bridge just destroyed the margins on Nehalem and Westmere. But when all the parts were new it was a wash.