Tablets Why is the Surface apparently a big deal compared to the iPad?

[Abazigal]

Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't the whole premise of the Surface's appeal based on the point that it can run MS Office (or apparently, some variant thereof)?

Are that many people going to buy the surface just so they can do some decent word processing on it? It's not as though there aren't ipad apps that already let you simulate this to some extent.

 

[jigzaw]

Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't the whole premise of the Surface's appeal based on the point that it can run MS Office (or apparently, some variant thereof)?

Are that many people going to buy the surface just so they can do some decent word processing on it? It's not as though there aren't ipad apps that already let you simulate this to some extent.

That's what's making me skeptical about the Surface. There are MUCH better cheaper laptops out there on which you can use Office, with the comfort of a real keyboard instead of that that plastic roll-mat thing with the mushy keys that costs an extra $100. I'm just not sold on the idea of replacing a solid laptop for serious work with a tablet (and I love a good tablet).

----------

What does RT stand for, anyway? I keep thinking it's the Surface "Retweet" in my head.

 

[Renzatic]

I dunno what the RT is Surface RT means, but in WinRT, it's short for runtime.

And I wouldn't pan the mushy keyboard completely. I've seen a few reviews that state it's a surprisingly decent, versatile thing. And even if you don't like the mushy one, you can get the more traditional, clicky cover for...well...more overpriced.

 

[Luis Ortega]

I was going to be childish and say you've missed the point, but I won't

Look, if you're doing lots of typing and multitasking, then a keyboard and more robust OS is a must, and absolutly you're going to get more work done on Windows than iOS.

However, "getting work done" was never the reason people bought iPads.

Its the experience, the convenience, the simplicity of being able to do 90% of the things you do on a computer in an easier, and dare I say it fun way.

Next time I have to write that 3,000 word essay I will absolutely grab my Macbook, the thought of doing that on an iPad terrifies me.

But when I want to browse eBay, or even sell something on eBay, or edit the photo's from my holiday, i'm picking up the iPad and lying back on the sofa.

...Where were we... I totally got off point.

Point is, specs don't make the iPad what it is, it's the experience.

The experience of putting a word document together is probably better on the Surface.

Yet everything else is yet to be seen, maybe it will be a great experience, I don't know.

What it like to buy and download an App?
What about downloading an album?
How will the browser perform?
etc.

But my initial irk was, people say the Sruface will be better because it has a faster processor and more RAM, but it doesn't mean anything.

On my windows 7 tablet, there is no need for an App Store since I can install whatever software I choose.
Does windows 8 force you to use an App Store?

 

[mattopotamus]

Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't the whole premise of the Surface's appeal based on the point that it can run MS Office (or apparently, some variant thereof)?

Are that many people going to buy the surface just so they can do some decent word processing on it? It's not as though there aren't ipad apps that already let you simulate this to some extent.

exactly. It is a tablet that will run office, which is a big deal in a business setting. Imagine how much better the ipad would be if it could run office.

 

[Renzatic]

RT does. Win8 is like Win7 in that you can install anything you want, but has access to the app store from within Metro (or whatever it's called).

Oh, and one other thing about the keyboard. You don't have to use it. I'm not sure about the RT, but the Pro is a full on ultrabook, capable of taking every piece of hardware Windows does. If I want to use my Apple bluetooth keyboard in its place, there's nothing stopping me.

That's whats so (potentially) neat about it. I can pick it up and use it as a tablet if I want. If I want to use it as more than just a tablet, I can plug in a keyboard and mouse, throw back the kickstand, and use it as an ultrabook. I can even hook up a 360 pad to it and play some games. It's a versatile little device.

Imagine if a Macbook Air were a touchscreen tablet with the hardware behind it. If you could use Apple's bluetooth keyboard and Magic Trackpad with it, would you think it's a less capable computer than it would be if it were permanently docked to the regular Apple keyboard? Really? What's the difference?

 

[mattopotamus]

RT does. Win8 is like Win7 in that you can install anything you want, but has access to the app store from within Metro (or whatever it's called).

Oh, and one other thing about the keyboard. You don't have to use it. I'm not sure about the RT, but the Pro is a full on ultrabook, capable of taking every piece of hardware Windows does. If I want to use my Apple bluetooth keyboard in its place, there's nothing stopping me.

That's whats so (potentially) neat about it. I can pick it up and use it as a tablet if I want. If I want to use it as more than just a tablet, I can plug in a keyboard and mouse, throw back the kickstand, and use it as an ultrabook. I can even hook up a 360 pad to it and play some games. It's a versatile little device.

Imagine if a Macbook Air were a touchscreen tablet with the hardware behind it. If you could use Apple's bluetooth keyboard and Magic Trackpad with it, would you think it's a less capable computer than it would be if it were permanently docked to the regular Apple keyboard? Really? What's the difference?

perfectly said. The RT will not replace laptops, but the pro version very easily could. I really like the point where you mention the Air that could turn into a tablet. That is basically what surface pro will be....a laptop with a removable touch screen...since it will have windows 8 in full, not just the metro version

 

[jmgregory1]

Nonsense. It's about having a working computer instead of a toy for watching movies, listening to music and spamming the internet with crap photos and videos of your friends acting like idiots.
I have a windows 7 tablet and an ipad, and the windows tablet is what I reach for when I have some real work to do.

What a load of bull. There are plenty of Fortune 500 companies implementing the iPad - not to watch videos and listen to music, but rather to sell products and services and communicate with customers and colleagues.

Need to write a proposal to a customer? Pages or Numbers can do that (on iPad or Mac). Need to send said Pages or Numbers proposal to said customer - as a word or excel file? Not a problem either. And don't come back with some crap about formatting not working. Only with highly complex excel files does Numbers have issues. For the majority of users, Apple's iWork can and does perform as well if not better than the competing "standard".

And the iPad can and does do more than that. Companies are realizing that it's cheaper and easier to create a custom app for iOS that can manage salespeople, product presentations, etc, than doing something similar in a windows environment. And with the ever expanding pool of iOS developers, pricing will keep coming down and quality will keep going up.

Windows 7 (and soon to be 8) tablets are examples of why inbreeding is not good. Tablets are not laptops and desktops are not tablets. Yes, you should be able to do certain tasks across platforms, but MS thinking that cross platform means doing things the same way is missing the point or worse, just completely wrong.

 

[jabingla2810]

On my windows 7 tablet, there is no need for an App Store since I can install whatever software I choose.
Does windows 8 force you to use an App Store?

You really have missed my point, I was talking about experience, not capability or flexibility.

Anyway, Windows 8 RT only allows you to use the app store.

Windows 8 Pro lets you install legacy apps, or any apps you want.

 

[spinedoc77]

For me it's a HUGE sense of relief. After 3 years of using iOS, which is pretty much a toy OS, I finally get to use a real OS. Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful to Apple for single handedly pushing the tech world into thin true tablets, the ipad was and will always be a work of art. But the ipad never even came close to replacing my laptop or my desktop, it was basically a consumption device great for viewing photos, music and videos and not much else. Sure you could shoehorn PC "like" functions to it, but it was never the same as having OSx or Windows. What's worse is that Apple just sat back and never really changed iOS much over the years.

Of course I'm talking about WinPro. WinRT is an utter failure IMO and was a bad move by MS. But they needed to directly compete with the ipad and they have to start somewhere, I just think it has too many caveats at both ends. For the low end user who values consumption it just doesn't have any apps or developer support. For the power user who really wants a full OS, of course it's not a full OS and won't run Windows legacy apps.

WinPro on the other hand is the real deal, a "real" OS which I can do anything on and I can finally retire ALL my computers if I wanted to. I think more consumers exist than we give credit for who feel like they are settling for something less with the ipad and iOS, they look longingly at their laptop and wish their laptops functionality was inside their ipad. Companies like Jump desktop, Splashtop, Logmein, etc are quite popular because they allow you to run Windows or OSx on your ipad for this reason.

But once again Windows Pro tablets have only one chance to do it right. The i5 tablets scare me, poor battery life, fans blowing out of them, thick and heavy. The technology just isn't there yet, although it's close enough where I think a ton of power and corporate users will buy them so while I don't think they will be a mass hit like the ipad I do think they will sell well. What Microsoft needs to put their strength into is the Atom/Cloverfield devices, the ones which offer battery life, thinness, lightness, etc as the ipad but have full Windows 8 on them. The big question is how will the Atom perform with Windows 8. If the Atom sucks then IMO MS dropped the ball and a huge opportunity big time. The Atom machines are the ones which will truly compete against the ipad.

Yeah the MS surface and the entire Windows 8 ecosystem is a HUGE deal for me. I've been waiting 10 plus years for a truly portable Windows device and it's finally here.

----------

What a load of bull. There are plenty of Fortune 500 companies implementing the iPad - not to watch videos and listen to music, but rather to sell products and services and communicate with customers and colleagues.

Need to write a proposal to a customer? Pages or Numbers can do that (on iPad or Mac). Need to send said Pages or Numbers proposal to said customer - as a word or excel file? Not a problem either. And don't come back with some crap about formatting not working. Only with highly complex excel files does Numbers have issues. For the majority of users, Apple's iWork can and does perform as well if not better than the competing "standard".

And the iPad can and does do more than that. Companies are realizing that it's cheaper and easier to create a custom app for iOS that can manage salespeople, product presentations, etc, than doing something similar in a windows environment. And with the ever expanding pool of iOS developers, pricing will keep coming down and quality will keep going up.

Windows 7 (and soon to be 8) tablets are examples of why inbreeding is not good. Tablets are not laptops and desktops are not tablets. Yes, you should be able to do certain tasks across platforms, but MS thinking that cross platform means doing things the same way is missing the point or worse, just completely wrong.

If that was the case then I would assume it would be more economical for those companies to sell all their windows and/or OSx computers and buy all ipads, or maybe Apple will come out with a desktop/laptop which runs only iOS.

I think you miss the point by a mile. Computers are computers, whether they are tablets, desktops or laptops, or even phones. The ipad gave very few people a reason to ditch their laptop or desktop, but a Windows tablet gives them every reason to to just that.

 

[laser310]

That's what's making me skeptical about the Surface. There are MUCH better cheaper laptops out there on which you can use Office, with the comfort of a real keyboard instead of that that plastic roll-mat thing with the mushy keys that costs an extra $100. I'm just not sold on the idea of replacing a solid laptop for serious work with a tablet (and I love a good tablet).

----------

What does RT stand for, anyway? I keep thinking it's the Surface "Retweet" in my head.

It's not just Office - it's every one of the programs out there for windows.

I'm not that excited about the Surface with Win8 RT - I'd rather have an iOS device. At least I think I would - we'll see when it gets out and matures a bit. I have an iPhone and an iPad and I'm pretty happy with them. I am probably going to get an iPad min too.

I am very excited about the full windows 8 "Win 8 pro" tablets that are to come out next year.

They will supposedly run basically all windows programs - some of which are much more suited for tablets and mobile computing than Office. Many developers are adding tablet interfaces to their programs (that can be turned on and off) to let users take advantage of the great features of tablets.

What some Apple fans may not realize is that there is a large number of windows programs for which not only is there no iOS substitute, there's not even a Mac substitute.

I spend a huge amount of time lugging a windows laptop around to use two or three specific programs, that really would be convenient to have on a mobile device. I'll still keep the software on my desktop, and probably on a laptop, but the convenience of having it on a tablet will be huge.

I will almost certainly buy a Win8 Pro tablet - and I almost don't care what it costs.

 

[spinedoc77]

perfectly said. The RT will not replace laptops, but the pro version very easily could. I really like the point where you mention the Air that could turn into a tablet. That is basically what surface pro will be....a laptop with a removable touch screen...since it will have windows 8 in full, not just the metro version

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews...aptops-and-netbooks/hp-envy-x2-1094171/review

I must say this is looking VERY nice as a replacement to my Macbook Air, which I just sold in anticipation of a Win8 tablet. Form factor is pretty close the the Macbook Air, and you can take it off and use as a tablet anytime. 3.1 lbs as a laptop about same weight as an Air with a built in battery in the dock giving much higher battery life than the Air, assuming 14-18 hour battery life which is just insane.

 

[mattopotamus]

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews...aptops-and-netbooks/hp-envy-x2-1094171/review

I must say this is looking VERY nice as a replacement to my Macbook Air, which I just sold in anticipation of a Win8 tablet. Form factor is pretty close the the Macbook Air, and you can take it off and use as a tablet anytime. 3.1 lbs as a laptop about same weight as an Air with a built in battery in the dock giving much higher battery life than the Air, assuming 14-18 hour battery life which is just insane.

This is probably something apple is working on now. I really see this taking off and being huge!...definitely one of the most innovating things in years. I wonder if the tablet part will have internals as well as the the base? Otherwise It would suck to have tablet specs built into an actual computer. I just don't know how it would toggle between the two components.

 

[jmgregory1]

For me it's a HUGE sense of relief. After 3 years of using iOS, which is pretty much a toy OS, I finally get to use a real OS. Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful to Apple for single handedly pushing the tech world into thin true tablets, the ipad was and will always be a work of art. But the ipad never even came close to replacing my laptop or my desktop, it was basically a consumption device great for viewing photos, music and videos and not much else. Sure you could shoehorn PC "like" functions to it, but it was never the same as having OSx or Windows. What's worse is that Apple just sat back and never really changed iOS much over the years.

Of course I'm talking about WinPro. WinRT is an utter failure IMO and was a bad move by MS. But they needed to directly compete with the ipad and they have to start somewhere, I just think it has too many caveats at both ends. For the low end user who values consumption it just doesn't have any apps or developer support. For the power user who really wants a full OS, of course it's not a full OS and won't run Windows legacy apps.

WinPro on the other hand is the real deal, a "real" OS which I can do anything on and I can finally retire ALL my computers if I wanted to. I think more consumers exist than we give credit for who feel like they are settling for something less with the ipad and iOS, they look longingly at their laptop and wish their laptops functionality was inside their ipad. Companies like Jump desktop, Splashtop, Logmein, etc are quite popular because they allow you to run Windows or OSx on your ipad for this reason.

But once again Windows Pro tablets have only one chance to do it right. The i5 tablets scare me, poor battery life, fans blowing out of them, thick and heavy. The technology just isn't there yet, although it's close enough where I think a ton of power and corporate users will buy them so while I don't think they will be a mass hit like the ipad I do think they will sell well. What Microsoft needs to put their strength into is the Atom/Cloverfield devices, the ones which offer battery life, thinness, lightness, etc as the ipad but have full Windows 8 on them. The big question is how will the Atom perform with Windows 8. If the Atom sucks then IMO MS dropped the ball and a huge opportunity big time. The Atom machines are the ones which will truly compete against the ipad.

Yeah the MS surface and the entire Windows 8 ecosystem is a HUGE deal for me. I've been waiting 10 plus years for a truly portable Windows device and it's finally here.

----------



If that was the case then I would assume it would be more economical for those companies to sell all their windows and/or OSx computers and buy all ipads, or maybe Apple will come out with a desktop/laptop which runs only iOS.

I think you miss the point by a mile. Computers are computers, whether they are tablets, desktops or laptops, or even phones. The ipad gave very few people a reason to ditch their laptop or desktop, but a Windows tablet gives them every reason to to just that.

You are seeing corporations move from laptop implementations to iPad implementations where the usage of the laptop doesn't justify the price and functionality for certain employees. And I'm not suggesting the wholesale end of laptops or desktops, but rather that an iPad may be (and is for many) a better option for everyday use on the road selling some product or service.

The idea that tablets and phones and computers are all the same (just because they're all equally powerful) is MS thinking. Tablets are not computers and computers are not tablets, even if the new tablets are as powerful as many computers, how they are used is so vastly different yet you have MS trying to rope tablets back to doing what the laptop was created to do and vice versa. That's my issue with MS's thinking.

As far as OS goes for each piece of hardware, they are and should be distinctly different, albeit compatible. Making a tablet be a laptop or even desktop in its functioning of the OS is just wrong and that is exactly what the early reviews of the new Windows 8 are commenting on. The same is true for taking the touch elements of tablets and thinking they apply directly to laptops or desktops. That's just crazy when you think about how you actually use a laptop or desktop computer.

Look, I don't know about you, but I don't want to have any smaller of a screen for typing and creating spreadsheets - and I feel that way with the iPad and every other small screened tablet - even the 11" mba just doesn't work for me. For what I do, 13" is about as small as I can handle. I'm not an iPad user or owner even because I can't see any real way (today) that they would address my needs while traveling.

A tablet, as we know them today, is something you hold in your hands. Use with your fingers. The screen is, and can be, smaller because you hold it up to your face much closer than you do with a laptop or desktop screen. Forcing a tablet to do duty as a sudo laptop is just not ergonomically right. That's where a tablet's apps come in to play. You create the apps to do things that work for the common usage a tablet sees. MS is hedging their bets with the OS because they don't have enough developer buy-in to create windows specific apps that use a tablet or phone specific user interface. They have to sell you on the fact that each needs to be the same, even if it doesn't make sense in real world use.

I just can't see any need for touching the screen of my laptop or desktop, like what windows 8 allows you to do and as you're going to start seeing with pc laptops and desktops. It's a "feature" that was added to justify their whole marketing around a single OS that is made to run on phone, tablet, laptop and desktop.

You know what they say about trying to do more than you should - jack of all trades, master of none. That's what MS is trying to do and they're forcing the problems with each individual piece of hardware to effect the others. That's just bad thinking on their part.

 

[spinedoc77]

You are seeing corporations move from laptop implementations to iPad implementations where the usage of the laptop doesn't justify the price and functionality for certain employees. And I'm not suggesting the wholesale end of laptops or desktops, but rather that an iPad may be (and is for many) a better option for everyday use on the road selling some product or service.

The idea that tablets and phones and computers are all the same (just because they're all equally powerful) is MS thinking. Tablets are not computers and computers are not tablets, even if the new tablets are as powerful as many computers, how they are used is so vastly different yet you have MS trying to rope tablets back to doing what the laptop was created to do and vice versa. That's my issue with MS's thinking.

As far as OS goes for each piece of hardware, they are and should be distinctly different, albeit compatible. Making a tablet be a laptop or even desktop in its functioning of the OS is just wrong and that is exactly what the early reviews of the new Windows 8 are commenting on. The same is true for taking the touch elements of tablets and thinking they apply directly to laptops or desktops. That's just crazy when you think about how you actually use a laptop or desktop computer.

Look, I don't know about you, but I don't want to have any smaller of a screen for typing and creating spreadsheets - and I feel that way with the iPad and every other small screened tablet - even the 11" mba just doesn't work for me. For what I do, 13" is about as small as I can handle. I'm not an iPad user or owner even because I can't see any real way (today) that they would address my needs while traveling.

A tablet, as we know them today, is something you hold in your hands. Use with your fingers. The screen is, and can be, smaller because you hold it up to your face much closer than you do with a laptop or desktop screen. Forcing a tablet to do duty as a sudo laptop is just not ergonomically right. That's where a tablet's apps come in to play. You create the apps to do things that work for the common usage a tablet sees. MS is hedging their bets with the OS because they don't have enough developer buy-in to create windows specific apps that use a tablet or phone specific user interface. They have to sell you on the fact that each needs to be the same, even if it doesn't make sense in real world use.

I just can't see any need for touching the screen of my laptop or desktop, like what windows 8 allows you to do and as you're going to start seeing with pc laptops and desktops. It's a "feature" that was added to justify their whole marketing around a single OS that is made to run on phone, tablet, laptop and desktop.

You know what they say about trying to do more than you should - jack of all trades, master of none. That's what MS is trying to do and they're forcing the problems with each individual piece of hardware to effect the others. That's just bad thinking on their part.

I have to respectfully disagree, I think there can definitely be a convergence of tablets and laptops. Sure some hardware designs don't make sense for such a convergence, arguable the Surface might not, but have you actually tried the keyboard, do you know from first hand experience that it won't suit you? Even so, it's a weak argument because there are a LOT of other windows 8 tablets with keyboard docks which are just as nice as any other laptop keyboard, case in point the HP tablet I linked earlier.

I've always advocated a mobile "thin" device, and for a power user either a powerful desktop computer at home/work, or a centralized server connected to their "thin" device. The user can choose to carry a tablet, or to carry a tablet and a keyboard dock, etc. Windows 8 is windows 8 (except when it's RT, but I'm not arguing for RT and personally think RT will fail and dilute the market). Windows 8 is windows 8, whether you have it on a laptop, desktop or tablet.

You have good points on the screen size, but that's really a small point. I forget the manufacturer, but there was one who was doing detachable tablets in 13,14 and 15" sizes for example, I'm sure others will follow. For home/work use you can just plug in an external monitor, same for keyboard, mouse, etc.

 

[gotluck]

What a load of bull. There are plenty of Fortune 500 companies implementing the iPad - not to watch videos and listen to music, but rather to sell products and services and communicate with customers and colleagues.

Need to write a proposal to a customer? Pages or Numbers can do that (on iPad or Mac). Need to send said Pages or Numbers proposal to said customer - as a word or excel file? Not a problem either. And don't come back with some crap about formatting not working. Only with highly complex excel files does Numbers have issues. For the majority of users, Apple's iWork can and does perform as well if not better than the competing "standard".

And the iPad can and does do more than that. Companies are realizing that it's cheaper and easier to create a custom app for iOS that can manage salespeople, product presentations, etc, than doing something similar in a windows environment. And with the ever expanding pool of iOS developers, pricing will keep coming down and quality will keep going up.

Windows 7 (and soon to be 8) tablets are examples of why inbreeding is not good. Tablets are not laptops and desktops are not tablets. Yes, you should be able to do certain tasks across platforms, but MS thinking that cross platform means doing things the same way is missing the point or worse, just completely wrong.

Fortune 500 companies use pages and numbers?

I also disagree - there's no reason tablets and notebooks can't converge. I'm excited to see what surface pro brings - moreso than the RT.

 

[spinedoc77]

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/pc-mac/pc-mac-desktops/sony-vaio-tap-20-1094048/review

There is a 20" Tablet for you, pretty insane and over the top. But it just tells me that you will be able to find pretty much ANY configuration you want to find. Want a 13" laptop with a detachable tablet, shouldn't be a problem. There are so many PC manufacturers that we are going to be flooded with different hardware configurations very soon.

Also I'm not buying the tablet touch, laptop mouse and never shall they meet argument. You slide the tablet into it's keyboard dock and you have a laptop configuration, you slide it out and you have a tablet touch configuration. What's the big deal? Why fight something that is so incredibly intuitive thanks to the genius of Windows 8 you can switch to whichever desktop suits your needs at that point in time and completely ignore the other type of configuration.

 

[TheHateMachine]

What a load of bull. There are plenty of Fortune 500 companies implementing the iPad - not to watch videos and listen to music, but rather to sell products and services and communicate with customers and colleagues.

Need to write a proposal to a customer? Pages or Numbers can do that (on iPad or Mac). Need to send said Pages or Numbers proposal to said customer - as a word or excel file? Not a problem either. And don't come back with some crap about formatting not working. Only with highly complex excel files does Numbers have issues. For the majority of users, Apple's iWork can and does perform as well if not better than the competing "standard".

And the iPad can and does do more than that. Companies are realizing that it's cheaper and easier to create a custom app for iOS that can manage salespeople, product presentations, etc, than doing something similar in a windows environment. And with the ever expanding pool of iOS developers, pricing will keep coming down and quality will keep going up.

Windows 7 (and soon to be 8) tablets are examples of why inbreeding is not good. Tablets are not laptops and desktops are not tablets. Yes, you should be able to do certain tasks across platforms, but MS thinking that cross platform means doing things the same way is missing the point or worse, just completely wrong.

I have to disagree, I have worked in at a Fortune 200 Company and currently work at a Fortune 100 company. Rebroadcasting and Healthcare respectively. Both of these companies are in love with Apple and both tried to roll out iPad solutions in corporate environments. The end result? Alot of headache and problems. The first company scrapped the idea all together and just raffled off the iPads to employees. The second and current is struggling with it with it honestly having no future. No Office and poor Office document compatibility, poor support for network resource access and the companies that we buy software from either make some limited iOS port that is downright terrible or just do not even bother.

So my experience has shown that they will never become laptop replacements, right now our Doctors just use them to browse content and google stuff. Whenever they need access to anything to do their job they turn to their touch screen laptops.

That being said WinRT might make a splash but outside of compatibility with existing documents it will still have the whole network authentication barrier for network access and no support for AD/GPO as well as the fact that legacy apps wont work. Surface Pro will be the thing that changes everything in the enterprise.

 

[reputationZed]

Not sure if its been mentioned yet but the surface tablets that are being released this week will be running Windows/RT not Windows 8. The Windows 8 Surfaces will be released latter in the year and will come at a higher price. To the best of my knowledge Windows RT apps and Windows 8 apps are not comparable meaning you will not be able to run Windows 8 comparable software on these tablets. I'm not saying you won't be able to share documents. MS has always been strong on collaboration features and there's no reason to doubt that wouldn't be the same here.

It's also worth mentioning that Office RT will still be Beta when the Surface is released. Not sure if this entitles you you a free copy of the shipping version or not

 

[aneftp]

If the surface $499 ran real windows legacy programs it would be a big deal.

Think if sales of the Surface are weak the first month, we will see a quick $100 price drop from Microsoft to get the holiday shopper.

Think with ipad mini at $329, Android Nexus 7 tablet at $199/249 and Amazon's kindle at around $199.

And of course Apple's ipad 2 at $399/ipad 4 at $499.

There isn't any room for Microsoft to maneuver at the $499 price point even if it's 32GB compared to 16GB for ipad 4.

I've had Windows phone. Just remember if people don't see some must have apps that Windows Phone 8/tablet 8 is missing, they will return the device.

 

[walie]

You could always jailbreak your device and use a 32 GB thumb drive and CCK for more storage. That is typically what I do. I put my movies on the thumb drive and either watch them from there or copy/paste them to the iPad file system, watch and then delete afterwards. This is on my iPad 3 on iOS 5.1.1.

I love how people try to claim Jailbreaking as a "feature"

 

[spinedoc77]

If the surface $499 ran real windows legacy programs it would be a big deal.

Think if sales of the Surface are weak the first month, we will see a quick $100 price drop from Microsoft to get the holiday shopper.

Think with ipad mini at $329, Android Nexus 7 tablet at $199/249 and Amazon's kindle at around $199.

And of course Apple's ipad 2 at $399/ipad 4 at $499.

There isn't any room for Microsoft to maneuver at the $499 price point even if it's 32GB compared to 16GB for ipad 4.

I've had Windows phone. Just remember if people don't see some must have apps that Windows Phone 8/tablet 8 is missing, they will return the device.

I think they have some room to work with in terms of Windows 8 PRO versus the ipad. I wouldn't include nexus 7, ipad mini, kindle etc because those are truly consumption devices, you can make a very weak argument for being productive on an ipad, but on those smaller devices I doubt you could make that argument.

The Atom full Windows 8 Pro systems look like they are going to be $650-700 from what I've been seeing, most of them (I think all) had 64gb of storage. An ipad wifi only with 64gb is $699 so I think that's very comparable, but the win8 gets usb, more memory via microSD, full windows legacy support, ability to truly replace your laptop, etc etc etc. I think there is going to be a whole LOT of people who will opt to have a full OS in their hands for what is really the same price.

Of course the huge caveat here is how will the Atom perform. I really doubt MS would stake their entire future on a crappy CPU, but you never know.

 

[gotluck]

I think they have some room to work with in terms of Windows 8 PRO versus the ipad. I wouldn't include nexus 7, ipad mini, kindle etc because those are truly consumption devices, you can make a very weak argument for being productive on an ipad, but on those smaller devices I doubt you could make that argument.

The Atom full Windows 8 Pro systems look like they are going to be $650-700 from what I've been seeing, most of them (I think all) had 64gb of storage. An ipad wifi only with 64gb is $699 so I think that's very comparable, but the win8 gets usb, more memory via microSD, full windows legacy support, ability to truly replace your laptop, etc etc etc. I think there is going to be a whole LOT of people who will opt to have a full OS in their hands for what is really the same price.

Of course the huge caveat here is how will the Atom perform. I really doubt MS would stake their entire future on a crappy CPU, but you never know.

I thought the surface pro was using a laptop variant of the 3rd gen core i5? Isn't the atom an entirely different product line?

 

[spinedoc77]

I thought the surface pro was using a laptop variant of the 3rd gen core i5? Isn't the atom an entirely different product line?

They have 3 different hardware configurations:
ARM CPU for Windows RT only

ATOM Z2760 CPU (cloverfield) 1.86ghz dual core for Windows Pro (full version of windows) next year they are releasing a quad core ATOM CPU.

Ivy Bridge, i3/i5/i7 full desktop type CPU for Windows Pro (full version of windows)

I believe the surface pro is using the ivy bridge CPU, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS released 2 PRO versions, an ATOM and an ivy bridge one, but that's purely wishful thinking at this point.

 

[b166er]

I kind of miss the days when MS was on their A game at all times. The past several years all they have had going for them is the Xbox, which is a great console but I don't game much these days.

Seriously, the past decade MS has had a few flops, and the only thing worth mentioning other than Xbox is Windows 7. WP7 was really just a rushed WP8.

I think that Windows 8 for tablets will do very well. Desktops, I don't know. I'm gonna dual boot it and see how it goes just to give it an honest try, but I'm not expecting much. I think Windows 8 will really thrive on tablets and phones. The surface looks great, although at this point I don't think anything out there competes with the iPad. The Lumia 920 looks awesome (preordered one so I'm pre-biased).

As far as competing with iPad- it's over. Apple gains and looses ground in different markets constantly, but one thing is clear- the iPad is the tablet everyone is buying. They are just demolishing all competition in this area. I have tried other tablets, I own a nexus 7 which I think is awesome, but the average consumer is willing to shell out extra for the iPad. That's not an opinion, it's just sheer numbers.

I wish MS the best in 2013!