Why nMP/Yosemite is part of scary trend for Apple

[Radiating]

MacVidCards is correct! Today it may be Handoff/Continuity support, and next time it may that you have to have the latest iPhone to sync calender and contacts... No wait, they already did that! Apple has been doing this since the early days of iCloud.

I think it is scary when Apple uses their market dominance to push users into buying the latest and greatest - that's called "tying" and is illegal under Antitrust laws

I highly doubt that this would become a trend. Apple's strength is it's backwards comparability. Even though there are shortfalls with them like this, there's no big move in this direction and never will be.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Apple isn't the only company that does this kind of thing. Apple is looking ahead, instead of the moment, where a lot of people on MR live.

My MBP (late 2011) doesn't support all the new features. If I can get a card (internal or external) that will allow me to make use of the features, that would be great. However, I don't see the need to run out and buy another 13" MBP, just so I can say my computer can make use of the latest and greatest features of Yosemite.

 

[macines]

Thanks for the tip.

You completely 100% didn't get what I'm telling you, but GREAT.

They have an OS that will require 90+% of people to buy a new MAC to use it 100%, not because it really requires it, just because they have placed a hoop in front of you and a sharpened stick behind you.

yeah you pretty much figured that one out,

they ve been heading this way for a loooong time

so basically not really news here

 

[MacVidCards]

I Obviously did a poor job making my point.

A guy named nicklad found the machine checks in 94360 kext

My understanding is that kext must load for Handoff checkbox to appear

That kext can run older "n" cards

That kext has a list of machines that force it to not load on many machines where it normally would

Those machines then load older BCM kexts

To turn on handoff you remove that machine check and it works

cMP was last machine where what parts are inside is unknown until it boots

I agree 100% that requiring wifi AC to enable Handoff is silly since no iOS devices have it, hence my outrage over requiring an AC kext on the Yosemite side

 

[NT1440]

I agree 100% that requiring wifi AC to enable Handoff is silly since no iOS devices have it, hence my outrage over requiring an AC kext on the Yosemite side

Can you please link to more info?

As far as I've been able to tell, continuity uses BT 4.0, not 802.11ac for discovery and sharing....

 

[ActionableMango]

Buying GPUs, exchanging things... Those are a very small percentage of PC gamers. No one else does it anymore, it just isn't worthy it.

In the MP forum if you sort by most views you'll see that of the top 20 threads, 18 are about upgrading hardware. And that's ignoring the countless people who don't check for existing threads before starting their own on the same topics.

So either the overwhelming majority of Mac Pro thread readers are really "a very small percentage of PC gamers" or your theory is completely and utterly wrong, and Mac Pro owners do in fact like to upgrade parts.

 

[xero9]

Can you please link to more info?

As far as I've been able to tell, continuity uses BT 4.0, not 802.11ac for discovery and sharing....

First things first.. I believe we're talking about handoff, not continuity.

The hardware in the 2011 MBA vs more recent models is slightly different (BT4.0-wise). Either they haven't included the drivers for it yet and may be included in a later DP or GM, or they'll shaft us simply because they can.

Either way, you're right, but BT4.0 doesn't exactly mean you'll get handoff.

 

[jclardy]

Am I missing something here? I have a 2012 rMBP and am using handoff just fine...no wireless AC required.

 

[paulrbeers]

Am I missing something here? I have a 2012 rMBP and am using handoff just fine...no wireless AC required.

Nope just another uninformed post trying to take a jab at the new nMP. Let's just say the OPs looking at part of his livelihood being taken away and uses any rumor (whether based in reality or not) to put down the nMP.

 

[MacVidCards]

Nope just another uninformed post trying to take a jab at the new nMP. Let's just say the OPs looking at part of his livelihood being taken away and uses any rumor (whether based in reality or not) to put down the nMP.

Congratulations, you are 100% wrong.

The 94360 kext has a whitelist, 2012 rMBP must be on it

Was working on 2011 MBA in DP1 and DP2.

Didn't make it on whitelist so stopped working on 2011 MBA.

It would be nice if the naysayers educated themselves before posting. Read the threads in Yosemite section. Read about whitelist.

 

[NT1440]

First things first.. I believe we're talking about handoff, not continuity.

Can you elaborate? Isn't handoff a part of continuity?

 

[Fenderf4i]

Can you elaborate? Isn't handoff a part of continuity?

Yes Handoff is part of Continuity, but BT LE isn't required for SMS and phone calls, which are part of Continuity as well. BT LE, currently, IS required for Handoff and Instant Hotspot.

 

[mmomega]

I'm not sure any WiFi standard has a thing to do with it.

My iMac has WiFi disabled and is wired in via Ethernet and I use HandOff from my iPad and Continuity from my iPhone, neither of which have 802.11ac.

 

[MacVidCards]

I'm not sure any WiFi standard has a thing to do with it.

My iMac has WiFi disabled and is wired in via Ethernet and I use HandOff from my iPad and Continuity from my iPhone, neither of which have 802.11ac.

See if the kext I mentioned is loaded

 

[benthewraith]

MacVidCards is correct! Today it may be Handoff/Continuity support, and next time it may that you have to have the latest iPhone to sync calender and contacts... No wait, they already did that! Apple has been doing this since the early days of iCloud.

I think it is scary when Apple uses their market dominance to push users into buying the latest and greatest - that's called "tying" and is illegal under Antitrust laws

Do you remember the iphone 3G with iOS 4? Trust me, it was absolutely horrid. They require devices capable of running the features without limiting performance. That said, excluding the MBA 2011 which has Bluetooth 4.0 is a bunch of bullcrap, but I suspect hackers will find a way.

 

[freedevil]

Apple doesn't charge for OS upgrades. The only way for them to make money is planned obsolescence. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just what it is. However, I do have to give Apple props for at least somewhat supporting older Macs back to 2009 (even some 2008's). My 2009 Macbook Pro can still run Yosemite without a hack. Nice.

It's a five year cycle. 2015 OS won't run on your machine. It's the common theme.

 

[paulrbeers]

It's a five year cycle. 2015 OS won't run on your machine. It's the common theme.

And I'm OK with that. It's only used for Internet and ripping Optical media anymore and it isn't like Yosemite will suddenly stop working on it. Do I don't get "napa valley" (or whatever they call 10.11), big deal. It usnt capable if much else anyway.

 

[freedevil]

And I'm OK with that. It's only used for Internet and ripping Optical media anymore and it isn't like Yosemite will suddenly stop working on it. Do I don't get "napa valley" (or whatever they call 10.11), big deal. It usnt capable if much else anyway.

Yes, you are but not everyone is content with that. As OP mentioned, you miss out on new features. I wasn't happy being stuck on Mountain Lion so I chalked up the money. Now, I won't have hand off for at least 5 years.

 

[pdaholic]

I remember an OS or two ago when airplay came out for the MacBooks. My 2.5 year old (at the time) MacBook Air wasn't powerful enough to have it enabled...though I had been doing the same for quite some time with AirParrot and Beamer.

 

[hyunyun]

[quote name="freedevil" post=19413501]It's a five year cycle. 2015 OS won't run on your machine. It's the common theme.[/QUOTE]<br />
<br />
And I'm OK with that. It's only used for Internet and ripping Optical media anymore and it isn't like Yosemite will suddenly stop working on it. Do I don't get "napa valley" (or whatever they call 10.11), big deal. It usnt capable if much else anyway.<br/>

 

[nicklad]

Congratulations, you are 100% wrong.

The 94360 kext has a whitelist, 2012 rMBP must be on it

Was working on 2011 MBA in DP1 and DP2.

Didn't make it on whitelist so stopped working on 2011 MBA.

It would be nice if the naysayers educated themselves before posting. Read the threads in Yosemite section. Read about whitelist.

Yup, this whitelist check in the KEXT can be observed via disassembly (highlighted):



I just hope that Apple have not decided to have 'consistency' from their perspective by limiting the new features to 2012 and newer machines only.

We are, however, still in the DP/beta cycle so we have nothing concrete to go on yet and can only draw inference from what we see. That said, explicit checks being coded in are a bit of a strong thing to go on.

 

[Manic Harmonic]

@MacVidCards I'm in agreement with you here. I can't say I'm surprised though, I'm sure you probably aren't either. However, it has been shown time and time again by the hackintosh community that if there's a will there's a way. Now that the nmp is out, I know that I probably won't ever be burying a Mac pro. I will continue to build my own the way that I want it. The main concern here for me is graphics cards. For all we know, there could never be support for 3rd party graphics cards again (aside from what's already supported, obviously). The thing is, I'm pretty sure both nvidia and amd add support for multiple cards because of the hackintosh community and of course Mac pro modders. I don't think they're going to stop doing that anytime soon. And of course, there is a way to get handoff/continuity working, even though it's much less than ideal. Similar situations will come up in the future and we'll have to use a similar fix. Sure, a lot of people won't want to deal with that type of thing, and that's fine. I'm perfectly happy sticking with my diy fixes and workarounds because i love to hack things.

That's just my 2 cents.

@nicklad did you manage to successfully nop that or is it being a pita?

 

[nicklad]

@MacVidCards I'm in agreement with you here. I can't say I'm surprised though, I'm sure you probably aren't either. However, it has been shown time and time again by the hackintosh community that if there's a will there's a way. Now that the nmp is out, I know that I probably won't ever be burying a Mac pro. I will continue to build my own the way that I want it. The main concern here for me is graphics cards. For all we know, there could never be support for 3rd party graphics cards again (aside from what's already supported, obviously). The thing is, I'm pretty sure both nvidia and amd add support for multiple cards because of the hackintosh community and of course Mac pro modders. I don't think they're going to stop doing that anytime soon. And of course, there is a way to get handoff/continuity working, even though it's much less than ideal. Similar situations will come up in the future and we'll have to use a similar fix. Sure, a lot of people won't want to deal with that type of thing, and that's fine. I'm perfectly happy sticking with my diy fixes and workarounds because i love to hack things.

That's just my 2 cents.

@nicklad did you manage to successfully nop that or is it being a pita?

I did, yes. I am going to wait until a public beta contains the features or Yosemite ships before releasing a binary version though. Basically, I want to try to avoid engendering an escalation with Apple of even more elaborate checks, perhaps with obfuscation in the KEXT.

For the record, it was Manic Harmonic not me who found out about the checks after looking for board ids in the binary.

 

[iOSaddict]

OP's fears are true and relevant. Some of the information is obviously not accurate but the main gist is relevant. Apple does force users to buy new hardware to get new features. My 2011 iMac is already outdated and I needed to buy it but the 2012 was delayed. Prior to that I had a 5 year old iMac and it was slow and terrible. It wasn't even on the list to run Mavericks and thats how Apple keeps forcing you to buy.

in b4, you don't need to upgrade.

Are you for real? So you're expecting the machine you buy today to be able to run softwares 4 years from now, in a world where technological advancement is made every 6 months?

Did you buy your 2011 iMac knowing that in 2014 Apple will release continuity and handoff? If at the time you made the purchase they promised you so then it's fair to say they breached their duty. But you used the hell out of it and now complained that it's outdated.

If Apple is that bad, feel free to change to something like Samsung. I'm sure they're wonderful with their post-sale support.

 

[freedevil]

Are you for real? So you're expecting the machine you buy today to be able to run softwares 4 years from now, in a world where technological advancement is made every 6 months?

Did you buy your 2011 iMac knowing that in 2014 Apple will release continuity and handoff? If at the time you made the purchase they promised you so then it's fair to say they breached their duty. But you used the hell out of it and now complained that it's outdated.

If Apple is that bad, feel free to change to something like Samsung. I'm sure they're wonderful with their post-sale support.

Okay fanboi. I am glad you have 2 grand to spend every 5 years on upgrading your machine.