I don't think it's a paint job. It's the colour of the plastic. If you saw the case in half I bet you'd see black all the way through. And I bet the black plastic chips that they use as the raw material for the moulding process cost exactly the same as the white ones. All the different colour chips we buy for injection moulding are the same price per kilogram.wako said:
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Why the Black MB isn't a ripoff, and why Integrated Graphics isn't so bad.
- Thread starter Abstract
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russed said:
I went to the Apple Store in Plano, TX yesterday to take a gander at the new MB's. I watched a young guy walk out the door with a black MB under his arm and couldn't help but chuckle a bit. Exclusively foolish, I suppose. But that's just my opinion, of course.
jsw said:
I don't recall Apple ever charging a premium based on a product's color. This is a bit of an experiment for Apple and I think it's a bit early to say whether or not it's going to work. My own feeling is that it probably will, but Apple's certainly not getting away with it with me...
i agree except the color. Car dealers usually charge more for different colours because they are metallic colours, not just straight car paint. Therefore they cost more to make. But obviously they do charge you a premium. Its just that adding 1000 bucks to a 30,000 dollar car is only 3.3% whereas a black macbook is adding over 10%. And they dont charge you more for a black ipod, so why do it for a black macbook? it's because, Apple, like most companies, like to soak consumers as much as possible (just look at now the dvi/vga adaptors cost 25 bucks EACH (cdn)!)
I've been a mac user and advocate for 15 years and an apple investor for 2. My position mirrors that of an earlier poster--that the obvious short term benefit of an extra $150 clear profit per blackbook (which will be big because stores are selling out) may be offset by real damage to apple image from obvious flash/fashion/greed/shallowness of the blackbook pricing. At the very least, Apple should have included a bunch of worthless crap so they could have pretended they were giving you something more than color for $150.
My friend bought a black MacBook this weekend. He's ordered a replacement 100 GB 7200 rpm drive for the unit as well, meaning he paid $200 for the joy of a black laptop. He's happy, and while I probably wouldn't do it, I can't fault him for getting what he wanted.
You either decide to pay the premium or you don't. Seems like much ado about nothing to me.
[Edit] Oh, and in my attempt to impulse purchase a MacBook at an Apple Store this weekend, my wife had no problem pushing me towards a black unit. "They look better."
You either decide to pay the premium or you don't. Seems like much ado about nothing to me.
[Edit] Oh, and in my attempt to impulse purchase a MacBook at an Apple Store this weekend, my wife had no problem pushing me towards a black unit. "They look better."
jsw said:
It was a $50 coupon off The Complete U2 compilation ($150). One would think that was worth the extra $50 but the black pod did NOT come with a dock while the same white ones were bundled with docks (weren't they?)...So basically, not the first time Apple charged a premium for a colored product...
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/26u2ipod.html
Actually, if memory serves didn't Apple charge more for the dalmation, flower power, and other "printed" iMacs too?
aquajet said:How could I have forgotten?
Although, didn't the U2 iPod include laser-engraved autographs on the back? And a poster along with a coupon? In this case, you're getting a bit more than just a "unique" color.
and the blackBook has 20 GB more, isn't this more than just a unique color?
Forgot to mention I agree with the OP, its not a big deal. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Use your wallet to bring the price down to the same as the white. I'm starting to dislike the popularity of Apple, its bringing out more whiners...
it is not really important what it costs Apple, it only matters what people are willing to pay for it... you wouldn't buy a mac in the first place if you didn't care for 'style', right ?
Personally, I am not too keen on the glossy white, so I was willing to pay extra to get a matte black MB. I actually got the last one in stock at the store over the week-end, so I guess the supply/demand thing works (I actually had to wait because someone else had it put on hold but didn't pick it up within 2hours...or maybe that is just an Apple store employee's practical joke ).
Also, I really like having a dark laptop because it is not as distracting to the eye when you are working, you are more focused on the screen.
Anyhoo, I am a happy camper
Personally, I am not too keen on the glossy white, so I was willing to pay extra to get a matte black MB. I actually got the last one in stock at the store over the week-end, so I guess the supply/demand thing works (I actually had to wait because someone else had it put on hold but didn't pick it up within 2hours...or maybe that is just an Apple store employee's practical joke
).Also, I really like having a dark laptop because it is not as distracting to the eye when you are working, you are more focused on the screen.
Anyhoo, I am a happy camper
Also, the MacBook Black is a 150 dollars more, because it has a 80 GB HD, instead of the 60gb stock.Abstract said:I'm just going to say a few things about the MacBook and MacBook Pro. Yes, I'm giving advice in the "Buyer's Advice" forum.
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"The black MB is a ripoff!"
In a way, you're right, but in a way, you're very wrong. Yes you're paying $150 for another colour, and no added benefit over a white MB with identical specs.
Well, I don't understand why the complaints are floating around here regarding the extra cost of buying the black model when you do it all the time for other things. For instance, what about car colours? Many car dealerships only give you white, black, and red for free, and charge you for any of the other 12 colours they offer. Guess what? People pay for purely cosmetic differences all the time. Sometimes it costs $700 to $1000 to select a navy blue car!!
If people always had to do things that were logical, there wouldn't even be a choice. Why spend more on a paint job? It's just the colour, after all, not the inner workings of the car.
The black coloured MB isn't a ripoff for those people who want black.
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"The black MacBook looks too much like a Winblows laptop/Dell/IBM/etc...
No it doesn't. In fact, nobody really makes black laptops anymore except Lenovo (who makes the Thinkpads now). Almost all laptops are made in a silver colour similar to the PowerBooks MBPs, and nobody gets a PB or MBP confused with a Gateway laptop. Preposterous!
The black MB is very unique, and completely unlike a WinXP laptop, including the Thinkpad. Those black Thinkpads have slight red and blue colours all over the keyboard area and trackpad area.
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Integrated Graphics is teh suxx0rs!
It's not the best, but it's not bad. It's actually not that bad for gaming, or for most other tasks. Just don't expect to run Motion, or do heavy duty video editing on a MacBook, that's all. You can still run CounterStrike, or newer games at medium quality.
Yes, the graphics card is good enough for you to check email, use Word, organize a 5000 photo library in iPhoto, use iMovie, watch movies, etc. Photoshop won't be negatively affected. In fact, the Intel Integrated graphics we're getting now is better than some of the video cards that were put in the PowerBooks from 12 months ago, especially that Nvidia 5200 they kept putting into the 12" PowerBooks.
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Is the 15" MBP worth the extra cost over the 13.3" MB?
Well, depends what you do. Paying an extra grand or so for a nice MBP isn't a ripoff at all despite the similar performance numbers you're going to get. You wouldn't be paying for performance this time. You're paying for the practicality of having a larger screen, higher resolution, and a dedicated graphics card. If you don't need such things, then yes, it's a ripoff. But if you intend on doing video editing on this machine, the 15" and 17" MBPs aren't a bad way to do it.
The 1280x800 resolution of the MB would be much too limiting to do video work on a long-term basis, and would be too slow because of the lack of a dedicated GPU.
The 15" MBP is only a ripoff if you don't do video editing or high intensity gaming.
imacintel said:Also, the MacBook Black is a 150 dollars more, because it has a 80 GB HD, instead of the 60gb stock.
You quoted all that for 1 sentance
that's already been said, over and over and over again You just didn't want to be left out did you
imacintel said:Also, the MacBook Black is a 150 dollars more, because it has a 80 GB HD, instead of the 60gb stock.
Actually, no -- the black MacBook is $200 more than the white one. The $150 figure is cited because it costs $50 to BTO the white MacBook with the 80 Gb hard drive, which makes them spec-wise identical.
Just to spice up things a little: the comparison between the MacBook's Black-color and most car colors is nice, but $150 for color in a device that costs $1500 is waaaay more than coughing up $400 for a metallic paint job on a $15000 car.
But I do like your thinking and writing, Abstract.
"Vituttais olla köyhä"
But I do like your thinking and writing, Abstract.
"Vituttais olla köyhä"
Here, let me try to settle some of these issues. First off, the reason Apple charges EXTRA for the BLACK Macbook is simple. It's because they can. Why not? If they sell a million units, (they will probaby sell much more) well, you do the math. It's a brilliant way to make money. Is it fair?? Well maybe not to you if you're on a budget. I think the only people who think it's a rip-off are the ones who can't afford it (and want one), or are so careful with their financies, that all major purchases are scrutinized (tight-wad). The $200 is a luxury tax and worth it if you have the money. I compared a black MB alongside a white one, and the black one was clearly the nicer looking one. The price of admission is $200, and for those people who are rich, well, they probably aren't complaining. It's like someone buying a Hummer and then complaining about gas prices. Most people who can afford Hummers, can afford the gas at any price. Is the Black MB worth the $200 difference? It is to Apple and that's why they did it! It's also worth it to those people who have enough money that $200 is not worth quibbling over. There are a lot of people in the world who will pay extra for coolness without batting an eye. If you think its a rip-off, then you aren't part of that group. Sometimes items aren't priced to be "fair." Often, it's whatever the perceived value is for any given item and what the public will buy. If the public is just "gotta have" a black book, then they will buy it at any price. Those of you who complain should just feel lucky that Apple offers a generic white one. My guess is that if the black one sells (and I'm sure it will), we will see other colors offered in the future. And finally, on the subject of fairness of costs...there are millions of people in the world who think ANY Apple computer is a rip-off - as they don't have the perceived value compared to what Dell or others offer.
One last comment about the doing video on the MacBook. The answer is YES!!! I've done video on a lowly G4 500mhz laptop (with only 8MB of Vram!!) and had no problems other than the long render times when doing filters and composites. Why wouldn't it work on a Macbook computer that has much much more power!? Where you are going to have trouble with the MacBook vs a desktop, or MBP, is if you need to push a lot of pixels around. Software that will run sluggish or not at all, is realtime compositing, working with HD footage and high poly 3D. For basic video editing (not HD), you should be fine with the exception of screen realestate. I'd hate to edit on a screen that small unless I was doing something quick and on location, but it definately would work (not Motion though, as it needs a dedicated video card).
One last comment about the doing video on the MacBook. The answer is YES!!! I've done video on a lowly G4 500mhz laptop (with only 8MB of Vram!!) and had no problems other than the long render times when doing filters and composites. Why wouldn't it work on a Macbook computer that has much much more power!? Where you are going to have trouble with the MacBook vs a desktop, or MBP, is if you need to push a lot of pixels around. Software that will run sluggish or not at all, is realtime compositing, working with HD footage and high poly 3D. For basic video editing (not HD), you should be fine with the exception of screen realestate. I'd hate to edit on a screen that small unless I was doing something quick and on location, but it definately would work (not Motion though, as it needs a dedicated video card).
beatle888 said:yes but that doesnt make it any less of a rip off and thats Abstracts whole argument. hes saying we're ripped off all the time so its ok.
beatle888 said:
They're not ripping you off. They're giving you a choice, and obviously you choose not to take it because you're not willing to pay $150 for aesthetics. For you it's just a computer. Some people are willing to pay $150, including many people who have bought a MB so far (yes, even people who post at MR), because while they know a computer is just a computer, they still want it to look nice.
Surely there are things you own that you purchased purely because of aesthetics? Do you own any t-shirts that aren't entirely plain in colour, have no logos, and cost around $5 each?
If nobody wants it, nobody will buy it, and Apple will ditch the idea. Unfortunately for you, it's selling, which means it's not a ripoff. Apple isn't pickpocketing customers of $150 as they walk up to the cash registers. Those customers pull their wallets out and freely given them the extra $150 if they wish.
Yes, the black matte finish is available for purely aesthetics purposes. So? Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get your argument.IJ Reilly said:
I disagree with his opinion that the video card won't have any effect on how well Final Cut Pro, Motion, etc, will operate, but believe what you will. If 2D graphics apps, iPhoto, Word, Excel AND even things like FCP and Motion aren't effected by the video card, then there is little reason to want a better video card, right? Even before the Intel switch, when gaming on a Mac kinda sucked, people still worried about what video card options they got. Why? It definitely wasn't for the gaming. Gaming options always did suck, but it was mostly due to porting of games to the Mac.iHeartTheApple said:Yep.
Where's the PC card slot? That's really the only thing I'm disappointed in. No cellular wireless for MB owners. Every cheap-arse PC laptop made in the last 8 years at least has a PC card slot.
As for the matte finish, it's not just aesthetic - I think the matte finish is better quality and less likely to scratch, though time will prove or disprove that.
As for the matte finish, it's not just aesthetic - I think the matte finish is better quality and less likely to scratch, though time will prove or disprove that.
Abstract said:
its a blatant rip-off
from apples own dictionary:
"something that is grossly over priced"
how can you deny what the scholars of the world are in agreement with? when something is grossly over priced its considered a rip-off. the 30" cinema display is a rip-off too. lets take pharmaceuticals, do you think its a rip-off that companies like pfizer charge obscene amounts of money for their product even though they are charging well above manufacturing costs? i think thats a rip-off. but lets keep this as simple as the definition that apple themselves have supplied us...i'll repeat, the definition for "rip-off" is "something that is grossly over priced". and if you dont like apples definition...heres Websters..."a financial exploitation"