Why the heck does America still use outdated measurement and date units?

[flat five]

Yeah, 1/3 of a foot is 4 inches. You chose very conveniently. What about 1/5 of a foot (or a yard)? That's a proportion that happens to work beautifully in metric. We can pick and choose, and find both winners and losers in both systems.

except i didn't just randomly choose numbers that will work.. the most likely division we (humans) will do when measuring something is a half.. dividing by two works great in Imperial and pretty good in Metric.. the next most likely division we need is 1/3.. then 1/4.. then 1/5 etc..

i didn't just choose randomly... i chose numbers which are of significant importance.. the odds of someone needing to divide by 5 are far smaller than dividing by 2, 3, or 4.

for example-- if you're building a cabinet, the carcass will most likely be divided in half... (or one shelf)... next highest chance is that the designer puts 2 shelves (thirds).. then 3 shelves.. then fifths come after that..

yes, 5ths work well in Metric (decimal) but the amount of times you need to actually divide by 5 is very small... especially when compared to how often you would divide by 2 or 3 or 4

Let's make this closer to equivalent... inches vs. centimeters (although at 2.54 cm to the inch, still not square on).

Divide an inch into 3rds. Whether inch or centimeter, you'll need to do some rounding on a typical ruler. 5/16-inch is under (.3125). If that stick is more finely ruled, 11/32-inch is over (0.3475), 21/64-inch (0.328125) is about as close as you'll get. Proportionally, 3 mm is not quite as close to .333 cm as any of those others. But to be fair, 1/3-inch = 8.4666... mm - close enough to interpolate 8.5 mm and be very near the mark.

this is because the inch is in base-16.. the foot is base-12... base16 has some neat features (in fact, it's by far the most simple scale to make and use.. logically).

..but i think if i explained myself fully, you'd see i'm not necessarily championing Imperial.. or meaning to argue USA vs World.. i'm arguing for base-12..

a system that works almost exactly how Metric does except our counting system is base-12.. that's what should be the standard.. that's my argument.

The thing is, 1/3 is problematic in either system, outside 1/3 of a yard and 1/3 of a foot. I don't ever recall seeing a ruler marked with 1/3, 1/9, and 1/27 of a foot or inch. We see 1/3 on kitchen measuring cups, and just about nowhere else.

1/3 works great in anything that's base-12..
a third of a foot is 4"... third of a yard is one foot.. in fact, since the root unit (1 foot) is base 12, any amount of feet is divisible by 3... 57 feet ÷ 3 = 19'.... 58' ÷ 3 = 19'4"..... 59' ÷ 3 = 19'8"... etc

the same can be said for 1/4 in base12 systems.

a similar example using something a lot more people are familiar with is the calendar... a third of a year is 4 months... a fourth of a year is 3 months..

any amount of years is divisible.. 57years ÷ 3 = 19 years... 58years÷3= 19yrs 4mth... 59yrs÷3 = 19yrs 8mth... etc..

another example is the clock.. it's base-60 but since 60 is divisible by 12, it works well..

1 hour ÷ 3 = 20minutes.. 2hours ÷ 3 = 40 minutes.. etc..


clocks/calenders are weird because we write them with decimal even though they aren't base10...

1 ÷ 2 = .6? what.. that can't be right?? but it is right if your scale is base12 such as a calendar.

1 ÷ 2 = .30? what? that's crazy looking.. but it's not. not if you're using a clock.

this happens a lot in Imperial... we say 1/2 inch instead of .8 inch... because everyone knows .5 is a half.. not .8...

even though .8 is actually 1/2 in base16 (inch)..

the math, the actual logic behind using the systems is better/cleaner in imperial/calender/clocks.. but using base10 to describe the logic is far from optimal.. we should be using base12

[snip]
this could go on for a long time.. i have some stuff to do today.. i'll pick up later.

 

[Falhófnir]

Simple as this, metric can only be conveniently divided by 2, 5, and 10. Imperial can be quickly divided by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, and 12. When working in construction or cooking, you don’t have time to pull out a calculator.

I also agree Celsius needs at least 3 times the units. 0 to 37 is just too small of a range.

Oddly Celsius is probably the only metric measurement I have a strong preference for, it's almost Imperial in it's ease of visualisation, with 0 being water's freezing point and 100 being it's boiling point. Fahrenheit has always seemed really odd and arbitrary to me by comparison, which is the inverse of how I feel about a lot of metric vs imperial measures.

 

[jtara]

Simple as this, metric can only be conveniently divided by 2, 5, and 10. Imperial can be quickly divided by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, and 12. When working in construction or cooking, you don’t have time to pull out a calculator.

I think it's hilarious that so many see metric as so pure and scientific.

It is based on the fact that HUMANS HAVE TEN FINGERS!

Yes, it makes logical and scientific sense to base a whole system of measurement on the fact that we have 10 fingers that we employ to help us count - if we don't have a computer, calculator, or a first-grade education...

I am extremely skeptical that the fundamental design of the universe is predicated on the existence of a creature that has 10 fingers.

Decimal is a horrible number system made for the convenience of poorly-educated creatures that have 10 fingers. There are few (if any) engineering or scientific problems for which base-10 would be ideal to work in.

Yet we have based our system of scientific measurements on this inconvenient radix.

At this point in our evolution - that's just nuts!

 

[mrex]

 

[Falhófnir]

By the same virtue, a metre being 1/10,000,000 of the distance from the equator to the poles (original definition) or the distance light travels in 1/~300,000,000 of a second is so amazingly simple and virtuous?

 

[bambooshots]

America was built on those old units...hard to turn your back on something you know that lead to success.

 

[Loge]

Without MM/DD format, Pi Day (3/14) would be impossible.

At least in base 10.

In base 8 (octal) it would be possible. Of course, the rendering of pi would no longer be 3.1415... because the fractional digits would signify 8ths, 64ths, etc. instead of 10ths, 100ths, etc. The whole part (3) would be the same, but not the rest.

Pi day should be on 22 July (22/7). Approximate, but then so is 3.14.

 

[justperry]

I just discovered this old thread, bear with me, I didn't read all those 500+ posts.

Just wanted to add one more annoying standard, UL, I have to deal with this crap more and more, sometimes, actually a lot, it doesn't make any sense.
Examples
Some main switches in a cabinet, can't open them while it's live, yet on the outside there's a screw, put a screwdriver in it and it opens.
All those stickers, for what, here in Europe we know that if there's a lightning bolt sticker on it you are not allowed in it, if you do it's your own mistake/responsibility.
Open connection boxes with live wires in cabinets, no protection.
Way too thick wires for what it needs to deliver.

 

[philpalmiero]

Because they like doing things the hard way, and anyone who uses metric is a commie or french or whatever other BS excuse is flavour of the month right now.

Aussies are worse than Commies and Frogs this month.

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

 

[1262753]

Because somehow traditions are amazing, and that they are proud of the fact that their measurement is invented by a drunk mathametician.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I find this title a bit absurd. Units of any convention are entirely arbitrary and so to call them “outdated” is odd. That said, the metric system obviously has its many conveniences not found in other systems including the imperial system.

The reality is largely speaking, the imperial system is really only used for purposes affecting the general public- weather, traffic, maps, etc. It also seems to be used in building/construction, at least for house me. Metric is used almost exclusively in medicine. The medical record system I use displays both height and weight in metric and imperial, but with a couple notable medications dosed in metric (a couple drugs use apothecary units i.e. grains, drams) and lab values presented in metric. Pharmaceutical calculations are all in metric. In modern engineering, more often then not metric is used. For example, most American cars now use metric hardware with the exception of commonly removed parts, such as the oil drain plugs, battery terminals, lug nuts, etc (or a metric bolt is used that had a closely interchangeable imperial size).

I think imperial is still used just because it’s what people know. It’s not really that hard to switch to metric if you’re exposed to it enough, however switching over to metric would involve great cost (ie changing street signs).

It’s not like parts Europe haven’t removed imperial units entirely. Cars fuel efficiency are presented in mpg. With I believe the exception of Russia, the entire world uses imperial units in aviation. Boats/ships speed and distances are measured in knots and nautical miles. People in the UK and Ireland reference body weight in “stone” (14lbs).

 

[Falhófnir]

I find this title a bit absurd. Units of any convention are entirely arbitrary and so to call them “outdated” is odd. That said, the metric system obviously has its many conveniences not found in other systems including the imperial system.

The reality is largely speaking, the imperial system is really only used for purposes affecting the general public- weather, traffic, maps, etc. It also seems to be used in building/construction, at least for house me. Metric is used almost exclusively in medicine. The medical record system I use displays both height and weight in metric and imperial, but with a couple notable medications dosed in metric (a couple drugs use apothecary units i.e. grains, drams) and lab values presented in metric. Pharmaceutical calculations are all in metric. In modern engineering, more often then not metric is used. For example, most American cars now use metric hardware with the exception of commonly removed parts, such as the oil drain plugs, battery terminals, lug nuts, etc (or a metric bolt is used that had a closely interchangeable imperial size).

I think imperial is still used just because it’s what people know. It’s not really that hard to switch to metric if you’re exposed to it enough, however switching over to metric would involve great cost (ie changing street signs).

It’s not like parts Europe haven’t removed imperial units entirely. Cars fuel efficiency are presented in mpg. With I believe the exception of Russia, the entire world uses imperial units in aviation. Boats/ships speed and distances are measured in knots and nautical miles. People in the UK and Ireland reference body weight in “stone” (14lbs).

With the exception of Fahrenheit, which I really don't care for (and then largely because Celsius has an elegant Imperial style logic to it, with nil being when water freezes and 100 being when it boils) I mostly find both systems easy enough to live with. Imperial is designed to be easy to visualise and highly fractal, it's very anthropocentric in conception. If anything Metric is the really weird arbitrary system IMO. One experiment we did in school (we're still taught both in GB) showed most of us could pretty accurately visualise three feet, but consistently underestimated a metre.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

With the exception of Fahrenheit, which I really don't care for (and then largely because Celsius has an elegant Imperial style logic to it, with nil being when water freezes and 100 being when it boils) I mostly find both systems easy enough to live with. Imperial is designed to be easy to visualise and highly fractal, it's very anthropocentric in conception. If anything Metric is the really weird arbitrary system IMO. One experiment we did in school (we're still taught both in GB) showed most of us could pretty accurately visualise three feet, but consistently underestimated a metre.

I learned both, and am comfortable with both.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Only measurement unit I know is the dollar.

 

[Morris]

John Finnemore's Souvenir Programme. Fahrenheit v Celsius Very clever.

 

[TBoneMac]

The better question is why do you care so much about how other people measure things? What is this Communist China or the Roman Takeover? Are we not allowed to do things our own way?

It works. That’s why they still use it.

 

[Morris]

[..]

It’s not like parts Europe haven’t removed imperial units entirely. Cars fuel efficiency are presented in mpg.

That’s not correct. In Europe the most common norm for fuel efficiency is L/100 km, or how many litres do you need to travel a distance of 100 km. That is the measure you’ll see in car adverts, showroom stats, car brochures etc.

Alternatively you’ll sometimes hear (as it’s more used in the vernacular) L:km, or 1 liter per 30km, or “my car does 1 on 30”.

The only exception is the UK where in addition to the L/100km standard (a legal requirement) you often hear mpg used. It’s a bit of a strange one as fuel is exclusively sold by the litre here and you can’t buy fuel by the gallon (furthermore, would that be a British or American gallon? Their sizes are quite different.) anywhere in the UK. The reason that mpg still lingers here is probably because distances on UK road signs are, 126 years after the UK introduced the Metric system alongside Imperial and 57 years after the UK formally switched to Metric, still in miles (though confusingly road signs use the ‘m’ for metre to indicate a ‘mile’ instead of the normal ‘mi’).

Life in Britain is all about inconveniencing the largest amount of people so I don’t see this strange halfway house change any time soon.

 

[yaxomoxay]

The better question is why do you care so much about how other people measure things? What is this Communist China or the Roman Takeover? Are we not allowed to do things our own way?

It works. That’s why they still use it.

Because entering items in MyFitnessPal drives me crazy

 

[Mousse]

The better question is why do you care so much about how other people measure things? What is this Communist China or the Roman Takeover? Are we not allowed to do things our own way?

It works. That’s why they still use it.

Preach on, brutha! We're 'Mericans. We will measure using any system but metric.😅😅 I've lived in 'Merica long enough to accept, "If it looks stupid but works, it ain't stupid."

 

[bunnspecial]

The zero and 100 points that Dr. Farenheit chose are logical and are a large part of the reason why the system "makes sense" in every day use...

So much of the imperial system is logical, but just based on a different set of logic than the metric system. There's actually an elegant simplicity in a lot of them.

And if this hasn't been said enough THE UNITS DON'T MATTER as long as you're consistent. As a Chemistry professor, I have been known to have students solve problems in the imperial system-it both shows how the imperial system can be used to its "maximum" and also stresses again that consistency of units is more important than using specific units in and of themselves.

 

[Huw Price]

People in the UK and Ireland reference body weight in “stone” (14lbs).

Hi there, while not wanting to take part in this culture war, may I offer a reply from my own experience? I'm ancient in terms of these threads , went to school at the end of the 1940s, then through the 50s & ended by 1962.
Measurements were a mess then, the tables we had on the back of the class note (exercise) books showed items like gills & furlongs! In terms of weight I still think in stones and pounds but find increasingly that UK medical staff doctors & nurses for example want weight in Kgs. I've worked rough figures regularly. Similarly when dealing with European mainland distances I can approx convert Miles into Kms and back. I regularly use the 24hr clock since I worked in international transport. Feet & inches versus centimetres are a current challenge. All the best.

 

[jeyf]

I learned both, and am comfortable with both.

i dont mind the metric system.
if inches feet miles were so great why didnt the UK continue to use them?


the US is an outdated stick in the mud
and
the US drives on the wrong side of the road too.

so there!

 

[panjandrum]

Poetry man, poetry and lyrics. Are you diggin' me man?

Like just imagine it man: "And kilometers to go before I sleep, And kilometers to go before I sleep" or "I can see for kilometers and kilometers and kilometers and kilometers" (ok, I know that wasn't an American band, but Great Britain only switched in the 60s, so it was still very much in the zeitgeist). The metric system works great for math and science, but it sucks for everything important. For important things you need crazy. And the imperial system as crazy as ****: as required by art.

 

[Falhófnir]

i dont mind the metric system.
if inches feet miles were so great why didnt the UK continue to use them?


the US is an outdated stick in the mud
and
the US drives on the wrong side of the road too.

so there!

The UK does very much continue to use them? All road signage is in miles/MPH, the car's speedometer is in MPH, when you buy milk or beer it's in pints, wine is usually in a measure called a 'bottle' (though labelled as 75 centilitres), strawberries are usually in half pound punnets, though again usually labelled as 227g. Not strictly metric, but eggs are usually sold in cartons of 6 or 12. Most people even my age (mid 20s) still give their height in feet and inches (though I would note Kg seems at least equally as popular as stone for weight). Houses are usually still quoted in square feet (though office space usually seems to be advertised using M²). Well, you get the idea.

 

[840quadra]

It is odd but I am comfortable living in both systems. I own European cars and motorcycles and understand sizes for tools I need for such work. At the same time, I have become used to the US Standard* while doing work in my house with relation to construction.

The use of both has been handy when I misplace my 8mm socket, I can just grab a 5/16 which works in most cases, similar situation with 13mm and ½ inch. Using both systems has actually made me understand relations and conversions without even thinking in many cases.