Why the heck does America still use outdated measurement and date units?

[bunnspecial]

Nothing logical or consistent about using the temperature of a fever and the ice/brine point in a lab as the basis of temperature measurement. The freezing and boiling point of water (at about sea level) are far more familiar to folks, and more consistent.

Interestingly, American Customary Units have been based on the metric system since the 1893 Mendenhall Order.

Why is it not logical? It was what he had to work with 300+ years ago, and in particular the temperature of ice and brine is as repeatable as freezing and boiling at a lab anywhere in the world.

"Based on" isn't correct terminology. US customary units are, by agreed convention, defined in terms of SI units(not metric units). In science in general, and in metrology specifically definition has a very specific meaning-it's an exact mathematical relationship.

We can carry that out even further and some definitions get really convoluted as units now are defined in terms of fundamental constants of nature, the values of which have been agreed up. An inch is exactly 2.54cm. 1cm is exactly 1/100 of a meter. A meter is the distance monochromatic light with a wavelength of 632.99121258µm travels in a vacuum in 1/299792458 seconds. The speed of light is exactly(by definition) 299792458 m/s. One second is defined as 9,192,631,770 transitions of a ground state Cesium-133 atom.

BTW, the celcius/kelvin scale has not bee defined in terms of the freezing/boiling point of water for a long time. It's the triple point of water.

Fundamentally ALL units of measure are arbitrary, and all have a logical basis. Imperial and US customary units were largely based on objects at hand...and incidentally the width of your hand is typically 1/3 the length of your foot, or 4" for a typical adult man.

As a point of annoyance for me, I'll also point out that the Metric system is NOT the measurement system used in science. Many metric units are used in science, but science long ago moved past the metric system.

 

[Dockland]

It's kind of odd that when checking out new lenses to cameras it focal length is stated in metric (mm) and that seems to be the case world wide. (Even thou the lenses with distance indicates states both m/ft.)

 

[bunnspecial]

It's kind of odd that when checking out new lenses to cameras it focal length is stated in metric (mm) and that seems to be the case world wide. (Even thou the lenses with distance indicates states both m/ft.)

Just like a lot of things, it's convention and there's nothing magical about it being in mm.

Vintage European and Japanese lenses were often in cm. One of my surprisingly rare and valuable Nikkors is a 5,8cm f/1.4 Nikkor, and also have a 13,5cm f/3.5 of the same age that came with the same camera(it's not particularly valuable).

I have had lenses with their focal length marked in inches. One that comes to mind was Tessar-formula lens that came mounted on a 4x5 field camera. It was 7.5", which is a slightly longer than normal lens in that format(190mm, where a standard lens is 150mm).

Lenses are one of those cases where in a sense it's kind of weird that we even talk about focal lengths, although it's one of those things that's a convention. The thing is that we really don't care about the focal length for a lot of situations(you need to know it if using a macro lens, especially at greater than lifesize, to calculate metering correctly). What we care about is the field of view as measured in degrees. From probably about 1960 to the early 2000s, most anyone serious about photography had either started with or only used 35mm(24x36mm) film. People who would get in deeper might use medium format film or even large format. Still, though, we all had it drilled into us that 50mm=standard focal length, shorter than that is wide angle, and longer than that is telephoto. If you move to a Hasselblad or other 6cmx6cm camera, that 50mm lens becomes a mild wide angle(with a field of view similar to a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera) and you need an 80mm lens to act like what you're use to from a 50mm lens. Then, digital happened, and for a while we mostly only had 16mmx24mm sensors(or sizes in that ballpark) that made all of our old lenses designed for 35mm film have a narrower field of view than they had on 35mm film. Finally we came around to having 24x36mm digital sensors and all was right in the world.

Still, though, my point is-again-that focal length is a less than great way to characterize a lens even though we do it. Many people have a good idea of what a 50mm or 35mm or 20mm or whatever lens looks like on 35mm film(or full frame digital) and it's handy to cross reference to that.

 

[Dockland]

Just like a lot of things, it's convention and there's nothing magical about it being in mm.

Vintage European and Japanese lenses were often in cm. One of my surprisingly rare and valuable Nikkors is a 5,8cm f/1.4 Nikkor, and also have a 13,5cm f/3.5 of the same age that came with the same camera(it's not particularly valuable).

I have had lenses with their focal length marked in inches. One that comes to mind was Tessar-formula lens that came mounted on a 4x5 field camera. It was 7.5", which is a slightly longer than normal lens in that format(190mm, where a standard lens is 150mm).

Lenses are one of those cases where in a sense it's kind of weird that we even talk about focal lengths, although it's one of those things that's a convention. The thing is that we really don't care about the focal length for a lot of situations(you need to know it if using a macro lens, especially at greater than lifesize, to calculate metering correctly). What we care about is the field of view as measured in degrees. From probably about 1960 to the early 2000s, most anyone serious about photography had either started with or only used 35mm(24x36mm) film. People who would get in deeper might use medium format film or even large format. Still, though, we all had it drilled into us that 50mm=standard focal length, shorter than that is wide angle, and longer than that is telephoto. If you move to a Hasselblad or other 6cmx6cm camera, that 50mm lens becomes a mild wide angle(with a field of view similar to a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera) and you need an 80mm lens to act like what you're use to from a 50mm lens. Then, digital happened, and for a while we mostly only had 16mmx24mm sensors(or sizes in that ballpark) that made all of our old lenses designed for 35mm film have a narrower field of view than they had on 35mm film. Finally we came around to having 24x36mm digital sensors and all was right in the world.

Still, though, my point is-again-that focal length is a less than great way to characterize a lens even though we do it. Many people have a good idea of what a 50mm or 35mm or 20mm or whatever lens looks like on 35mm film(or full frame digital) and it's handy to cross reference to that.

Yes, I'm with you on this one.
I've shot with both a Hasselblad 500C (from 1983 i think) and a Mamaya (don't recall the name of model) and actually used a standard 80mm lens on those. That was fun. Speaking of that, it's kind of odd that it's called FF and the larger one are called "medium format"
(I know the history, but it's easy to get confused)

 

[Huntn]

There is a lot of metric sneaking into the US. I was looking at some liquid in a bottle at the grocery store and it was not in oz.

 

[mrex]

If your a plumber in Europe I bet they have Imperial wrenches.

Anyway, I've never understood Celsius for temperature outside a laboratory. Fahrenheit (to me) gives an relative indication of comfort level versis when water will boil or freeze.

When I worked in Saudi it often got up to 50 C degrees or more (122+ F which better describes how it feels). Where I grew up 50 was chilly.

Where I grew up it could get down to -40 C or -40 F which are the same in both scales. Damn cold.

So the comfort temperature of 70 to 75 F is 21.1111 to 23.8889 C. Good grief. How do you set that on a thermostat.

I do not understand why it is difficult to understand Celsius.. 0 C, water freezes, 100C water boils. Is is only 100 steps between freezing and boiling. It is easy to understand from scale 0-100 what happen rather than by 180 (Fahrenheit scale, an arbitrary number!). What about using the same scale woth money from 1 cents to 180 cents to get a 1 dollar rather than that 100 cents is a one dollar? Cpuld you change my 10 dollar bill to 18 coins?

and it is quite easy to narrow the scaling down to 0, 10, 20,… 100… 0 is not cold (great winter wheather is -5 - -10C), but water freezes at 0C… then 10 C: use a light jacket, 20C: use shorts, 30C: die outside because it is way too hot, 36-37C: a human body temperature, 40-60C: this is a joke in a sauna… i think they are called steamrooms - as a teenie sauna. 70-85C: a mild sauna… 85-95C: a great sauna , 95-100C a quite hot sauna.

Fahrenheit scale is abosolutely outdated and doesnt make sense at all - that is also the reason, no one use it, but usa.. There are no good measurements to compare it with anything.. It is too wide for a normal wheather to feel small differences.. 180 steps between freezing and boiling…

So the comfort temperature would be 21 to 24 for you, to me it would be around 20. Converting from other units another, dont use decimals because of the equation - that doesnt make any sense at all. Try to conver t21-24C to fahrenheit, it gives you: 69,8F to 75,2F — you would rather say 70 to 75F than ”good grief, how to set your thermo?”

 

[Doctor Q]

I do not understand why it is difficult to understand Celsius.

Neither scale is difficult to learn or understand. It's just a matter of familiarity, which depends on which one you were taught and have gotten used to using.

Celsius better suits use in science, but otherwise these scales are equally useful when considering the condition and comfort of humans and the range of temperatures we can live in. We could just as easily be using a scale with higher numbers for colder temperatures, ranging from 0 (as hot as we can stand) to 1000 (as cold as we can stand)!

 

[PatrickCocoa]

Question: What is the premier example of Cultural Imperialism in the world today?

Answer: the metric system.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Question: What is the premier example of Cultural Imperialism in the world today?

Answer: the metric system.

uhm, no. It just works better, hence it's adopted by many/most countries and groups.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Neither scale is difficult to learn or understand. It's just a matter of familiarity, which depends on which one you were taught and have gotten used to using.

Celsius better suits use in science, but otherwise these scales are equally useful when considering the condition and comfort of humans and the range of temperatures we can live in. We could just as easily be using a scale with higher numbers for colder temperatures, ranging from 0 (as hot as we can stand) to 1000 (as cold as we can stand)!

I just can't stand American recipe books.

1 g of sugar
2 3/5 cups of flour
1 tblsp olive oil
1 tsp baking powder
4 oz of milk
1 lbs of chocolate chip

 

[mrex]

Neither scale is difficult to learn or understand. It's just a matter of familiarity, which depends on which one you were taught and have gotten used to using.

Celsius better suits use in science, but otherwise these scales are equally useful when considering the condition and comfort of humans and the range of temperatures we can live in. We could just as easily be using a scale with higher numbers for colder temperatures, ranging from 0 (as hot as we can stand) to 1000 (as cold as we can stand)!

Kelvin is used in science. Celsius is fine for humans.

Something divided by 180 doesnt make any sense (water freezes or boils) - much easier to divide it by 100 and think what happens on every 10C or 5C rather than multipling it buy 18, or 9, or 3 or something like that.

we have 10 fingers, we understand easily 1,2,5 and 10. We do not have 18 fingers and havent get used to play with numbers, 1,3,6,9, 18…

 

[Altis]

Here in Canada, metric is the 'standard'. However, pretty much everyone will use inches, feet, and pounds in common use. I'd be surprised if more than 30% of people knew their weight in kgs or height in cm. in, ft, and lbs are units that just work very well for the things we interact with. It's much easier to visualize inches or a feet than meters or cms.

In engineering, though, metric makes infinitely more sense, by design really. Having units that are formed of base units, and only scaling up using metric prefixes rather than changing units with odd conversion rates, works so beautifully for calculations.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I do not understand why it is difficult to understand Celsius.

There was a 'nerd?' at the college I went to who decided that *everyone* should use the Kelvin temperature scale. He would spout out the current temperature in Kelvin, and even wrote to the local TV and radio stations and requested that they actually broadcast their weather reports with temperatures on the Kelvin scale. One actually did, for a few days.

The Kelvin scale... It would be ~290 degrees Kelvin here right now. Sounds like a freaking heat wave. Yikes...

He still may be on his Kelvin kick. I read an article posted on Facebook about using different scales for temperature. The took the Kelvin scale as 'the best', but I didn't recognize the name. *shrug*

I will declare myself a believer that we should all be using the Rankine temperature scale! 😜🤪 Why not?

 

[Rkuda]

I just can't stand American recipe books.

1 g of sugar
2 3/5 cups of flour
1 tblsp olive oil
1 tsp baking powder
4 oz of milk
1 lbs of chocolate chip

Recipes are indeed horrible regarding weights and measurements. Measuring by weight instead of volume is much better and easier to keep the results consistent. It's a bit tedious but asking Siri works pretty well to get the conversions for most things.

 

[Nermal]

I just can't stand American recipe books.

1 g of sugar
2 3/5 cups of flour
1 tblsp olive oil
1 tsp baking powder
4 oz of milk
1 lbs of chocolate chip

I had a real "WTF moment" the first time I ran into "sticks of butter".

 

[contacos]

Habits I guess, just like I do not understand why Americans seem to be so obsessed with carpet floors. It just screams GERMS and other nastiness to me. As soon as I see that a hotel has carpet floor in its rooms, I dont book it

 

[Grey Area]

I just can't stand American recipe books.

1 g of sugar
2 3/5 cups of flour
1 tblsp olive oil
1 tsp baking powder
4 oz of milk
1 lbs of chocolate chip

To be fair, the spoons are common "recipe units" in metric countries as well. Always leaves me scratching my head when I have such a recipe and look at the variety of spoon dimensions in our kitchen.

 

[cosmichobo]

To all non Americans... it's best to just ignore the problem. I'm sure it will go away eventually.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Habits I guess, just like I do not understand why Americans seem to be so obsessed with carpet floors. It just screams GERMS and other nastiness to me. As soon as I see that a hotel has carpet floor in its rooms, I dont book it

Someone proudly showed their new carpet in their bathroom. (It was cheaper than tile) And most of us were aghast at the idea. They finally took it out a year later, and discovered floor damage. THAT is why people use tile in bathrooms. Not because it's expensive, but because it works 1,000% better. A throw rug, you can 'throw' out. Yikes... But I still occasionally ran into carpeted bathrooms. That's just gross...

My current house has tile throughout. Even tile that looks like a wood floor, and it's so amazing. I'll never go back to carpet again.

 

[PlayUltimate]

To all non Americans... it's best to just ignore the problem. I'm sure it will go away eventually.

When I was in elementary school in the late 60s/70s, they were talking then about how the US was going metric. Guess not . . .

 

[yaxomoxay]

To be fair, the spoons are common "recipe units" in metric countries as well. Always leaves me scratching my head when I have such a recipe and look at the variety of spoon dimensions in our kitchen.

The one I always found mysterious when I was in Italy was the "pinch". A "pinch of salt" from my grandad was like 5x that of my grandma.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Someone proudly showed their new carpet in their bathroom. (It was cheaper than tile) And most of us were aghast at the idea. They finally took it out a year later, and discovered floor damage. THAT is why people use tile in bathrooms. Not because it's expensive, but because it works 1,000% better. A throw rug, you can 'throw' out. Yikes... But I still occasionally ran into carpeted bathrooms. That's just gross...

My current house has tile throughout. Even tile that looks like a wood floor, and it's so amazing. I'll never go back to carpet again.

Happened when we bought our current home. Previous owner installed carpet in the bathroom. With (at the time) two very young boys, it didn't took us a long time to realize that re-flooring the bathroom was a priority.

 

[Apple_Robert]

The bottom line is we Americans like to be different.

 

[polyphenol]

Kelvin is used in science. Celsius is fine for humans.

Something divided by 180 doesnt make any sense (water freezes or boils) - much easier to divide it by 100 and think what happens on every 10C or 5C rather than multipling it buy 18, or 9, or 3 or something like that.

we have 10 fingers, we understand easily 1,2,5 and 10. We do not have 18 fingers and havent get used to play with numbers, 1,3,6,9, 18…

180 degrees come from geometry! Two right angles. Based on the Mesopotamian sexagemismal system. So, in some ways, very sensible. Also, potentially works nicely on dial-based temperature displays.

If you want confused measurements, think no further than the black things on vehicle wheels.

Tyre sizes / Tire sizes​

​

Width in millimetres.​

​

Height as a percentage.​

​

Diameter in inches.​

​

Load rating index based on kilograms. Which appears to be an arbitrary scale with many increments at simple multiples of kilograms (10 or 25). If you check in pounds, the numbers are obviously conversions of the kilogram values.​

​

Speed rating based on kilometres per hour. Which appear to be arbitrary but they increment at 10 km/h points.​

 

[rpmurray]

While not a weight or measure the thing that I can't understand is that there are STILL (a small number of) backward places in the world where people drive on the LEFT side of the road.