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Why the heck does America still use outdated measurement and date units?
- Thread starter garirry
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I'm fine with that. Call me lazy.
My life does not intersect with anything or anyone demanding I use the metric system. So, while I am aware of it I have no need to fully learn it. So why others I do not interact with have such a need or want for me (or other Americans) to learn a system I do not use in my daily life, I don't know.
We Americans aren't demanding that the world go back to standard measurements.
Don't forget the drug trade which measures kilos of cocaine and marijuana.
How klicks came to represent kilometers
How long did you live in your previous country before immigrating, and how long have you lived in the US? There is a big difference between immigrating as an infant or small child, and immigrating as an adult.
It would seem that the US education system has a significant role in the success or failure of transitioning to metric. Just as young children absorb languages more easily than adults, metric units could be taught earlier in school. In high schools, chemistry and physics classes use metric units. Track events are based on meters. Is there any reason metric units could not be expanded to other sports such as weight classes in wrestling? Or any reason metric couldn't be taught in earlier grades? In math class, is there any reason why the speed of the moving trains couldn't be given in kph? Grade schools and vocational schools could start presenting the metric system as the "standard, modern" way of measuring while imperial units could be taught in history or legacy technology classes.
True, but I don't think the US government can force the people to change. It can be taught as a school prerequisite starting in primary school, and continued through HS and college. But to have millions of workers to all of the sudden switch from one system to the next would create a lot of problems in the construction business and all the trades. For example, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, bricklayers, and so on have learned our measuring system from childhood for generations already. If you already know enough about these trades, you could understand how difficult it would be for a craftsman to change from one system to another in a short period of time.
A lot of hand tools, including powered ones, are market in inches and fractions of inches, and the lumber cuts are done in foot/inch/fractions of inches. Wrench and socket sets often include metric and US customary numbers (I have both mechanic tools, and switch back and forth).
Like it or not, the first sentence in the article below says it all:
Why Doesn’t the U.S. Use the Metric System? | Britannica
In a metric world, why does the U.S. choose to be different?www.britannica.com
I doubt that any reasonable person is advocating for an immediate cutover to metric units. It would most likely need to be done in a systematic way over several years, starting with children's education. The general public would also need to be constantly exposed to metric units and encouraged to favor metric over imperial. For example, food labels could show the metric units first and in larger type. Same with road signs. All major points of contact with the public such as hospitals, doctors offices, the DMV could provide information in both units. The ruler used in police mug shots could display both metric and imperial. Male enhancement products such as Viagra could display the "before" and "after" measurements in both metric and imperial, with metric in "larger" type. TV shows and movies could also start using metric units more often. Construction and machinery industries would need to work out their own transition plans. A transition would not be done overnight. But if the will existed, it could be done. US has gone from leaded gasoline to unleaded. From analog TV to HDTV. Building codes have been evolving for over a century.
The time and money argument from the Britannica article reminds me of the circular reasoning around issues such as:
1. Can't make computers with only USB ports because there aren't enough USB devices. Companies don't want to make USB devices because there aren't enough computers with USB.
2. Special interest groups argue that electric vehicles aren't good because there isn't enough charging infrastructure. These same special interest groups actively oppose building out more charging infrastructure, then point to the lack of infrastructure as proof that EVs can't succeed.
You say that general resistance in the US to metric is not about arrogance, but the Britannica article also states:
"Many also believed that the United States should keep its particular system, setting it apart from other countries and symbolizing its status as a leader rather than a follower."
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I was seventeen when immigrating to the US after HS graduation. And yes, I agree with what you have written above. It will take a long time to transition, and the people will continue using in their daily lives whoever system is most convenient at the moment. A lot of Canadians along the border, and also North... all the way to Alaska have a clear understanding or at least are familiar with the US customary system system. I have been noticing in recent years that most creams and lotions, water, and other liquids have labels that reflect both measuring systems. For example, "2 FL OZ (59 mL)." Then all supplements are labeled "metric." I imagine that all automobiles sold in the US have speedometers that show MPH/KPH scales. When driving through Canada all I had to do was to reduce speed to match the KPH scale. Now, digital displays can be set to show either one (MPH or KPH)
For ammo reloading "grains" are used for a reason, and that is because the very lightweight powder-charge drops are easier to achieve using grains than grams (the latter clutters the display). An example, .5 grains versus grams = 0.032399455 Grams. But for a bucket-full of gun powder, grains would not be ideal. Pounds would be fine, but my metric friends in this forum might not agree with me
~just kidding!
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1. In the 1960s when I was involved in semiconductor development (Fairchild R&D), measurements were a mix of English and metric. Change occurred for communication purposes as companies in other countries decided they wanted to start building the integrated circuits that were invented there at Fairchild. Even at Fairchild we very much welcomed moving into the full metric standard used internationally in the scientific community.
2. Years ago, the U.S. tried converting to metric on the highway. Nobody wanted it. Nobody could see reason for change other than to meet someone else's standard. The whole idea died a slow death.
3. The Nice thing about the Fahrenheit system is having a spread of 45 degrees between 'freezing' and 'comfortable' as opposed to only 27 degree spread in Celsius. Why would we want to switch to something so limiting. Makes no sense. Of course we do use Celsius in the scientific community because of convention, but also because, in science, one typically works with a much larger temperature temperature spread. For that matter, Kelvin works best when working with larger spreads yet.
4. You like your European format preference 27/06/2022 and we like our U.S. format preference 06/27/2022. Anyone who uses the internet gets used to switching between those two formats - with no complaint. But actually we should all be using the ISO 8601 date format 2022-06-27, the format that you point out that is used in East-Asian countries and elsewhere.
The inscription on my antique world Atlas clock from Holand reads: NU ELCK SYN SIN. Good words for all of us. English translation: Everyman to his taste (To Each his own).
2. Years ago, the U.S. tried converting to metric on the highway. Nobody wanted it. Nobody could see reason for change other than to meet someone else's standard. The whole idea died a slow death.
3. The Nice thing about the Fahrenheit system is having a spread of 45 degrees between 'freezing' and 'comfortable' as opposed to only 27 degree spread in Celsius. Why would we want to switch to something so limiting. Makes no sense. Of course we do use Celsius in the scientific community because of convention, but also because, in science, one typically works with a much larger temperature temperature spread. For that matter, Kelvin works best when working with larger spreads yet.
4. You like your European format preference 27/06/2022 and we like our U.S. format preference 06/27/2022. Anyone who uses the internet gets used to switching between those two formats - with no complaint. But actually we should all be using the ISO 8601 date format 2022-06-27, the format that you point out that is used in East-Asian countries and elsewhere.
The inscription on my antique world Atlas clock from Holand reads: NU ELCK SYN SIN. Good words for all of us. English translation: Everyman to his taste (To Each his own).
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True, one should only use prime numbers as a base (11, 13, 17, etc) and then a different one for each unit...
I’m guessing the offensive part is calling the Imperial system outdated. Actually, there’s nothing outdated about it. It is just an alternative system. Like knots for vessel and aircraft speeds, and Kelvin for temps. I don’t get the ire in this thread. For me, this all falls into the “don’t really care” category, just use what you’re comfortable using. Sheesh folks.
I think Europeans and Asians see it as outdated in the respect it’s an old system that was superseded some decades ago in their part of the world. Americans still use it and that’s absolutely fine as it’s an alternative system that works.
The Imperial system is outdated, relatively. Some of it goes back to medieval times, whereas the Metric system dates to the time of the French revolution.
As for Kelvin, it is a metric measure of temperature, simply being Celsius with the zero being absolute zero. It is a more rational system for certain calculations, as 40 Kelvin is truly twice as hot (but still bl**dy cold) as 20 Kelvin, while 40 C is not twice as hot as 20 C.
The offensive parts were Micky Do's writing like this in reference to Americans:
The reasons for Americans to continue using a variant of the Imperial measuring system have already been posted several times. It has nothing to do with Americans being, "Only a problem for the ignorantly intransigent few, and the odd senior citizen."
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If the question is why past efforts to convert US to metric did not succeed, it was most likely a failure of the education system and public outreach. Simply posting new signs on roads is not enough. My question for everyone is: if you were in charge of a transition effort today, what would you do and how long do you think it would take?
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Make it mandatory. This is how other countries successfully made the transition.
Mandatory as if by law? Such mandate would be difficult in a "democratic republic" form of government. As it has been pointed out a few times, for economic reasons the US government hasn't made it mandatory. It is a lot more economical to allow for it to evolve as it has been. Yes, it should be taught at the public schools.
We need incentives like having the USA congress/senate get rid of daylight savings time first to change people's minds. There is no point of arguing about metric system versus U.S. customary units if they can't even pass something that most want gone. Metric is secondary to that.
It is an anomaly for sure. As an older Australian we went metric in 66. For those who cite difficulties, it’s not, it’s so simple you’ll never want to go back.
for those who cite cost, it’s a short term hit, but once it’s done it’s done.
IMO the non metrification of the USA, like many issues has become a political issue, substantially “you can tell me what to do”, even if it’s in the nations best interest. What Americans don’t realise is that their nation is run by the ultra rich, who buy politicians to keep themselves ultra rich, and if that requires we throw the average joe under the bus, so be it.
There isn't any industrialized or rich country around the world without a class of powerful people directing the country's direction. Even under communism, or a dictatorship, the most powerful are in control. Then in some other places warlords are in control of the people and different regions. There are numerous examples of dictators and their aids who had become very rich and powerful, while the "masses" struggled to survive. This still happens nowadays.
My German car used to display MPG. Not really an issue. Although 50+ MPG was good mileage!
Now I drive an EV so it doesn’t use any petrol at all!
More details would be appreciated. Flipping a switch and eliminating imperial units overnight is not realistic.
I agree with this, but it doesn't seem like it is even being pushed. Sometimes for things to evolve, they need a nudge.
They got a good start with the 2 liter bottles of sodas, and then moved on to engine displacement (I think this was because they knew people wouldn't understand it, and also knew no one would be happy with a 122 CI (2L) engine) but then seemed to stop.
I don't think it would take much for companies to start marketing metric sizes, especially in single use drinks and snacks. Anything to get the ball rolling again.
I believe the equivalent for an EV would be kWatts / km.
You would also need an Energy Rating sticker, like this sort that is found on fridges --
It is realistic. So many other countries have done it, including Australia and New Zealand. Even developing countries like Papua New Guinea did it, with no problems.
I think Americans should learn Celsius, but there are some pretty undeniable benefits to F: it is easy to understand for normal, everyday questions about the weather at levels of specificity that don't require resorting to decimals. Freezing and boiling points are scientifically useful, but really irrelevant to the vast majority of people's everyday lives. No one except maybe chemists and tea snobs have conversations about how hot their boiled water is. Normal people do, however, have plenty of conversations about the weather.
The entire range of temperatures that humans basically can and do live at with are roughly just above freezing to about half of the the temp of boiling. In F, that's like 35 or 40º to about 115º. That is about 1.667 to 46.11 in C. That's essentially the "weather" range of conversation.
That's a range of about 44 units in Celsius, vs a range of about 80 (almost double that) in F. That makes F MUCH more useful for everyday conversations about the weather. 21.1 to 26.6 C is 70–80º F, and it's a lot more normal to talk about "yesterday was 73º and tomorrow will be 78º" instead of "22.7 vs 25.5." Maybe you guys actually say decimals when talking about weather, but if you don't, that basically proves my point: it's easier to be more specific using F in a scale that is easier to use without resorting to decimal places.
But the "nudge" has already taken place. As numerous posters have already said, US Americans are already using metric along the US customary measuring system. While in some product labels only metric quantities are shown, most labels show both US and metric quantities. Canada adopted the metric measuring system several years ago, but quite a lot of Canadians are familiar with both metrics and the US Customary systems. The difference is that in the US metric is not the official measuring system like it is in Canada. And I don't see anything wrong for Canadians being familiar with both systems.
In my view a lot of you are worrying about things that aren't important to Americans, and I am saying it from the standpoint of someone who was born in an official metric measuring system country. In relation to Americans not understanding metric engine displacement, that is incorrect. A lot of Americans speak of 250CC and other motorcycle engines. For example, a GM Gen III 5.3 L truck engine: This is typically referred to as a "325" engine, but it doesn't mean that Americans don't understand what 5.3L means in reference to this engine, because it is listed as such (in metric size).
As I look at a bottle of glucosamine, the label shows 38.8 FL OZ (2.1 Pt) (1,000 mL). IU see nothing wrong with this label.
-Dietary supplements are shown in grams or mg
-All medicine intake at the hospital in shown in metric
-The military, space, NASA, and so on use metric numbers
-Metric is used in the science fields, and so on
But people use whatever they want to use in their daily lives. What is wrong with that? Just think about this: if you want a cup of coffee, do you care more about the exact amount of coffee in the cup, than the coffee itself? The same can be said for a bottle of water if you are thirsty. If you are in a lab, then you may want to measure the amount of water you need to use for the project at hand, of course.
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