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Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
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a South Pacific island
A different measuring system has to be thought by the people (schools, parents, and so on) for perhaps two or three generations.
Tosh.... Been there, done that, having grown up in a country that changed currency as well as weights and measures from imperial to metric (NZ), and spent quite a bit of time in another that made the same change (UK). Two or three weeks (if not days) is all it takes for most folks to adapt. Only a problem for the ignorantly intransigent few, and the odd senior citizen.
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
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Tosh.... Been there, done that, having grown up in a country that changed currency as well as weights and measures from imperial to metric (NZ), and spent quite a bit of time in another that made the same change (UK). Two or three weeks (if not days) is all it takes for most folks to adapt. Only a problem for the ignorantly intransigent few, and the odd senior citizen.
There is no way for a child attending school to learn a new measuring system for gasses, liquids, distances, and so on. For an adult not even a new language can be learned in two or three weeks. Why would a person who can leanr that fast spend years attending school?
 

Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,214
3,162
a South Pacific island
There is no way for a child attending school to learn a new measuring system for gasses, liquids, distances, and so on. For an adult not even a new language can be learned in two or three weeks. Why would a person who can leanr that fast spend years attending school?
Speaking as a bilingual teacher of English as a second language for a couple of decades, there is no way that adapting to a different (simpler) system of weights and measures compares with learning a new language. In my experience the former is easily achieved in a few weeks, if not days, for all but a bloody-minded few. The latter does indeed take years for most who have not grown up in a bi/multilingual environment.
 
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roygnelson

macrumors member
Sep 7, 2014
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Tosh.... Been there, done that, having grown up in a country that changed currency as well as weights and measures from imperial to metric (NZ), and spent quite a bit of time in another that made the same change (UK). Two or three weeks (if not days) is all it takes for most folks to adapt. Only a problem for the ignorantly intransigent few, and the odd senior citizen.
I agree. My wife is from Ireland where a similar transition happened smoothly.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
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Alaska
Speaking as a bilingual teacher of English as a second language for a couple of decades, there is no way that adapting to a different (simpler) system of weights and measures compares with learning a new language. In my experience the former is easily achieved in a few weeks, if not days, for all but a bloody-minded few. The latter does indeed take years for most who have not grown up in a bi/multilingual environment.
It is not easy for a child nor an adult to learn a different measuring system, metrics in this case, in two or three weeks. The same can be said for learning a language in two weeks. The points I was trying to make is that in the US it will take a long time for the population to adjust to the metric system, because it is not taught at home and school. The fact is that most US consumers don't pay attention to the "500 mL" on the label of a 16.9 FL OZ bottle of water. Both measuring systems are being used in the US, but in order for Americans to use only one system, they would have to learn it. As I said before, I immigrated from a place where the metric system was used.
 
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Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
1,350
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It is not easy for a child nor an adult to learn a different measuring system, metrics in this case, in two or three weeks. The same can be said for learning a language in two weeks. The points I was trying to make is that in the US it will take a long time for the population to adjust to the metric system, because it is not taught at home and school.

It will need to be forced on them. But take boxes of cereal. Does anyone actually read the weight, or just go by the size of the box they want.

So convert one industry at a time. The hardest will be converting all the mileages to km.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
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Alaska
It will need to be forced on them. But take boxes of cereal. Does anyone actually read the weight, or just go by the size of the box they want.

So convert one industry at a time. The hardest will be converting all the mileages to km.
True, but I don't think the US government can force the people to change. It can be taught as a school prerequisite starting in primary school, and continued through HS and college. But to have millions of workers to all of the sudden switch from one system to the next would create a lot of problems in the construction business and all the trades. For example, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, bricklayers, and so on have learned our measuring system from childhood for generations already. If you already know enough about these trades, you could understand how difficult it would be for a craftsman to change from one system to another in a short period of time.

A lot of hand tools, including powered ones, are market in inches and fractions of inches, and the lumber cuts are done in foot/inch/fractions of inches. Wrench and socket sets often include metric and US customary numbers (I have both mechanic tools, and switch back and forth).

Like it or not, the first sentence in the article below says it all:
The biggest reasons the U.S. hasn’t adopted the metric system are simply time and money. When the Industrial Revolution began in the country, expensive manufacturing plants became a main source of American jobs and consumer products. Because the Imperial System (IS) of measurements was in place at this time, the machinery used in these factories was developed to size in IS units; all of the workers were trained to deal with IS units; and many products were made to feature IS units. Whenever the discussion of switching unit systems arose in Congress, the passage of a bill favoring the metric system was thwarted by big businesses and American citizens who didn’t want to go through the time-consuming and expensive hassle of changing the country’s entire infrastructure. Many also believed that the United States should keep its particular system, setting it apart from other countries and symbolizing its status as a leader rather than a follower.
 
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roygnelson

macrumors member
Sep 7, 2014
73
56
True, but I don't think the US government can force the people to change. It can be taught as a school prerequisite starting in primary school, and continued through HS and college. But to have millions of workers to all of the sudden switch from one system to the next would create a lot of problems in the construction business and all the trades. For example, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, bricklayers, and so on have learned our measuring system from childhood for generations already. If you already know enough about these trades, you could understand how difficult it would be for a craftsman to change from one system to another in a short period of time.

A lot of hand tools, including powered ones, are market in inches and fractions of inches, and the lumber cuts are done in foot/inch/fractions of inches. Wrench and socket sets often include metric and US customary numbers (I have both mechanic tools, and switch back and forth).

Like it or not, the first sentence in the article below says it all:
Except the rest of the world has figured out how to do it.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
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Alaska
Except the rest of the world has figured out how to do it.
I see...you haven't realized that the US hasn't done it for economical reasons :)
The first paragraphs of the Brittanica article, not the quoted text I posted, should make it clear for you. Most nations have been using the metric system from the beginning, including the place where I was born at. Canada chose the measuring system used in France. Our "founders" did not.

Please understand that I am not trying to change anybody's mind about this issue. Like it or not, "it is what it is." If you want to use the metric or any other measuring system, go for it. I do without any issues.
 
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roygnelson

macrumors member
Sep 7, 2014
73
56
You are overstating the problem, it's simpler than the English system and people would not lose their minds if they had to buy a liter of milk. Frankly it would not be difficult at all, just the expense of switching labels.
F4373120-F873-4F96-A4D2-58451593E62E.png
 
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PinkyMacGodess

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Mar 7, 2007
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Soda bottles has been the one major change to the metric system! It was easy, and now the thought of looking for a gallon of cherry coke is foreign, I just want a 2-litre bottle.

We can do it, we choose not too.

Some companies still stubbornly cling to SAE fasteners. Saris for one. Almost the entire bike industry is metric, but I ran into SAE fasteners on their trainers. Wow, that was a surprise. I also ran into a 'big box' BSO that had SAE fasteners, and it was Made In China! I know, weird...

EDIT: Back to the bottles, anyone old enough to remember when they brought out THREE LITRE BOTTLES?!?!?! The opening of the bottle was almost half again larger, the bigger to suck down all of that sugary goodness. 🤢🤢🤢 For the corpulent, it was huge news, sad pun intended. I had heard they came back somewhere. I think it was a 'store brand'. Watch a Star Trek original episode or any 'old movie' or TV show, they were so skinny. That was before we were force fed so much sugars and fats. Bloat on...
 
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Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,214
3,162
a South Pacific island
I see...you haven't realized that the US hasn't done it for economical reasons :)
The first paragraphs of the Brittanica article, not the quoted text I posted, should make it clear for you. Most nations have been using the metric system from the beginning, including the place where I was born at. Canada chose the measuring system used in France. Our "founders" did not.

Please understand that I am not trying to change anybody's mind about this issue. Like it or not, "it is what it is." If you want to use the metric or any other measuring system, go for it. I do without any issues.
More tosh….. The decimal metric system was conceived in 1790, fourteen years after the USA came to be.
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
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Alaska
More tosh….. The decimal metric system was conceived in 1790, fourteen years after the USA came to be.
Yes, the metric system became practical during the French Revolution. After the US Independence, some Canadians adopted the measuring system used in France (keep in mind that French was spoken in Canada back then), but the US did not. Full integration of the metric system in Canada hasn't taken place (it began in 1970), and the Imperial measuring system is still used by lots of Canadians in their daily lives. In the US the metric system is being used in the medical and engineering fields, space (NASA), the military, and so on...along the US customary measuring system that derives from the Imperial system.

When traveling on the Trans-Canada Highway, and also the Alaska Highway, the residents have a good command of both the Metric and The US customary measuring system. The road signs show the speed limits in KPH instead of MPW, but the this is not an issue since all automobiles in Alaska and Canada have MPH/KPH marked on the display. On digital displays, like the one on my UTV one can switch from one system to the other (MPH or KPH).
 
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Micky Do

macrumors 68020
Aug 31, 2012
2,214
3,162
a South Pacific island
Yes, the metric system became practical during the French Revolution. After the US Independence, some Canadians adopted the measuring system used in France (keep in mind that French was spoken in Canada back then), but the US did not. Full integration of the metric system in Canada hasn't taken place (it began in 1970), and the Imperial measuring system is still used by lots of Canadians in their daily lives. In the US the metric system is being used in the medical and engineering fields, space (NASA), the military, and so on...along the US customary measuring system that derives from the Imperial system.

When traveling on the Trans-Canada Highway, and also the Alaska Highway, the residents have a good command of both the Metric and The US customary measuring system. The road signs show the speed limits in KPH instead of MPW, but the this is not an issue since all automobiles in Alaska and Canada have MPH/KPH marked on the display. On digital displays, like the one on my UTV one can switch from one system to the other (MPH or KPH).
Wow, impressive.... multi-metric! Can't be too difficult to go full SI (aka metric). A child could do it, for sure. Difficult for obdurate old codgers to accept, I guess.
Most nations have been using the metric system from the beginning
Truth is that all nations have not been not using metric from the beginning. Most have made the change, except for Burma / Myanmar, Liberia and the USA.
 
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PinkyMacGodess

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Truth is that all nations have not been not using metric from the beginning. Most have made the change, except for Burma / Myanmar, Liberia and the USA.

All I remember is a 'brain donor' that said that he was NOT!!! going to give in to the 'BS', and get ANY metric wrenches. HE ALONE was going to stop the tsunami of metric bolts/nuts/etc, which I'm sure went as well as anyone who has ever worked on a bike, or millions (?) of other products and encountered Metric Fasteners.

Sure, I run into a fair amount of SAE fasteners, but the majority are metric. Even things Made In America/USA use metric fasteners. I wonder how Mr Genius survives without metric wrenches. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D:D

(There are 'metric screwdrivers'. Well, not exactly metric, but based on a 'standard' from Japan:oops:)
 
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skottichan

macrumors 65816
Oct 23, 2007
1,143
1,384
Columbus, OH
I'm teaching myself to do exclusively metric, except for one thing. Temperature. I'll use metric temp for cooking/baking/3D printing, but if you ask what temp it is, Fahrenheit. Celsius makes zero sense in a humanist respect.

Maybe it's the lizard brain, but I don't feel the narrow Celsius range represents the wide range of experienced temperature well.

I agree with something I read somewhere, where it was like; Fahrenheit is best for air temp, Celsius is better for cooking/baking and kelvin's best for space.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
I'm teaching myself to do exclusively metric, except for one thing. Temperature. I'll use metric temp for cooking/baking/3D printing, but if you ask what temp it is, Fahrenheit. Celsius makes zero sense in a humanist respect.

Maybe it's the lizard brain, but I don't feel the narrow Celsius range represents the wide range of experienced temperature well.

I agree with something I read somewhere, where it was like; Fahrenheit is best for air temp, Celsius is better for cooking/baking and kelvin's best for space.
We hit 109ºF today in Phoenix (it was a cooler day). I wonder if using Celsius would help all us Phoenicians to feel cooler. 42.7º sounds a lot cooler than 109 I think ;)
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
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Alaska
Wow, impressive.... multi-metric! Can't be too difficult to go full SI (aka metric). A child could do it, for sure. Difficult for obdurate old codgers to accept, I guess.

Truth is that all nations have not been not using metric from the beginning. Most have made the change, except for Burma / Myanmar, Liberia and the USA.
There is no need to be offensive.

Back in the day of The Colonies, the Imperial measuring system was most common with the English speaking Brits and Americans. After the Independence War, as I wrote before, the French/Canadians adopted the measuring system (metric) being used in France several years after the war, while the English-speaking Americans continued using the Imperial measuring system being used in the colonies, which includes the variants of it used in the US today. While Canada's official measuring system is metric, a lot of Canadians are familiar with both the metric and variants of the Imperial measuring systems (same as the variants of the Imperial system of the US). The same can be said for Mexico.
The imperial system of measurement or the British imperial system is the system of measurement defined in the UK after the Weights and Measures Act of 1824 and 1878. These include units that were in common use in Britain like inches, pounds, gallons, etc. Let us learn more about the imperial system in this article.
Some countries use the imperial system while some countries use the metric system of measurement. After the US gained independence from the British, they decided to keep the imperial system of measurement but with some changes. They made their own US Standard system which is quite similar to the imperial system. The metric system has its own popularity. It is the easiest measurement system to be used as it is based on the decimal system or the powers of 10. It is important for us to understand the difference between the imperial system and the metric system. Look at the table given below to learn the imperial system vs metric system.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,912
55,850
Behind the Lens, UK
Which is worse, 2 litres of Cherry Coke, or half a gallon?

And anyway, the rest of the world has banned Cherry Coke as an abomination...
What’s wrong with cherry coke? It’s great for cleaning your toilet or offering people you want to leave your house.
Just don’t drink it!
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,912
55,850
Behind the Lens, UK
We hit 109ºF today in Phoenix (it was a cooler day). I wonder if using Celsius would help all us Phoenicians to feel cooler. 42.7º sounds a lot cooler than 109 I think ;)
42 sounds horrendous. I grew up with Fahrenheit but switched to Celsius when the weather men did. Easy enough to get used to. I still know what both mean.
I think air temperature is one of the easiest as you really don’t need to know exactly what it is. You just need to know if it’s hot or cold.
 

PinkyMacGodess

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Mar 7, 2007
10,271
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Midwest America.
I'm teaching myself to do exclusively metric, except for one thing. Temperature. I'll use metric temp for cooking/baking/3D printing, but if you ask what temp it is, Fahrenheit. Celsius makes zero sense in a humanist respect.

Maybe it's the lizard brain, but I don't feel the narrow Celsius range represents the wide range of experienced temperature well.

I agree with something I read somewhere, where it was like; Fahrenheit is best for air temp, Celsius is better for cooking/baking and kelvin's best for space.

I read that many Australians use the two competing standards almost interchangeably, depending on what/where the temperature is being measured. While most Americans (myself included) can't seem to grasp the 'bilingual' temperature system. Sure, 32 degrees and 0 are the same, but I have to check when people gasp at the high 2 digit numbers in some areas. 35 sounds frigid, but it's 95! *shrug*
 

SalisburySam

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2019
921
809
Salisbury, North Carolina
Some people just have reactions to what they perceive as being military. I refer to it as military time because in the US, the military is the one entity that uses it.
…but certainly not the only. The 24-hour clock has always been used in aviation, and my first exposure to it was flying lessons at age 14 back in the early ‘60’s, long before I entered the military. It’s also used in emergency rooms for identifying time of death despite what you see on TV. Just two examples.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
…but certainly not the only. The 24-hour clock has always been used in aviation, and my first exposure to it was flying lessons at age 14 back in the early ‘60’s, long before I entered the military. It’s also used in emergency rooms for identifying time of death despite what you see on TV. Just two examples.
I never got far enough with flying (student pilot license only) to solely be using the 24 hour clock. I will admit the whole Zulu thing was confusing to me.

As far as emergency rooms, I have done my level best over 51 years to avoid stepping in to them (and hospitals) unless absolutely necessary. :)
 

sudo-sandwich

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Aug 5, 2021
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Celsius is bad for daily life because it's too coarse. 100˚F = it's really hot, 100˚C = you're vaporizing. A lot of home thermostats do ˚F in increments of 1 and ˚C in increments of 0.5, which is telling. The other metric units aren't as bad but are still arbitrary at best. What's the importance of everything being based on the physical properties of water?

And yeah the feet-to-miles conversion is a weird number, but it's for a reason: You usually don't convert those. I don't care how many feet my car traveled yesterday. I don't need to relate the length of a road trip to, like, the height of a human. If this were a common issue, we could just as easily measure in kilo-inches.

For dates, it's also arbitrary. They based it on how they say dates, like "24 January 2022," and Americans say "January 24, 2022." Not a big deal. The only objectively better thing is 24h time, due to the easy confusion setting alarms and such with 12h time.
 
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