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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
My primary problem with metric is that I cannot visualize it. I know how long a foot is, an inch, a mile - because I can see it in my head. I have an approximation of it.

But metric is just numbers to me. When I hear meter or kilometer I have no visual reference in my head of how long a meter is or a kilometer. I didn't grow up with this stuff. Although I was a kid in the 1970s when there was a movement to go metric, it didn't amount to much where I was.

Conversely, I don't have any problem with liters. Why? Because the soda industry popularized the 2-liter bottle. In the last decade or so they also made 1-liter bottles a standard. I can visualize those, so you tell me that something is X liters I can visualize that by thinking how many 2-liter bottles that is.

I'm probably an exception, but I think if some sort of effort had been made to get people to visualize these things then the metric system might have gone down better.
I agree, and nothing beats English measurements for cooking period. :)
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
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I had to do both part of my service! The US ARMY used metric in distances! however having older equipment (older Duce-an-half) having to remember that's it is older! I tend to think once NATO was made after WW2 the US ARMY went Metric!
In aviation, you work with both too. I used to provide temps to passengers in both C and F. In the grocery store I’m seeing more packaging in metric, and the sky did not fall. :)
 
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Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
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In aviation, you work with both too. I used to provide temps to passengers in both C and F. In the grocery store I’m seeing more packaging in metric, and the sky did not fall. :)

I am pretty good at metric for distances. I can convert miles to kilometers and back almost without thinking. And a meter is a yard for most purposes and a centimeter is almost half and inch.

But other than 0 and 100, I have no good comparison between F and C. Yeah I can do the conversion but it is not automatic. But I have to do the conversion. I can see a meter in my head, but have no idea what 10C is without converting it (50F).

I like the shows Highway thru Hell and Heavy Rescue: 401 on The Weather Channel. Both are Canadian based series, one in BC, the other in Ontario. On the BC one, they report snow in cm, but the Ontario one reports snowfall in inches. Both use miles to describe how far away they have to travel to a wreck.
 

Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
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In aviation, you work with both too. I used to provide temps to passengers in both C and F. In the grocery store I’m seeing more packaging in metric, and the sky did not fall. :)

You would have thought that 2L Coke bottles would have converted us a long time ago. :oops:
 
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polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
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If you really want Americans to embrace the metric system, convert ammunition. That will get them modernised with the rest of the world.
Am very ignorant of guns in general, but thought that quite a significant proportion of handguns, machine guns and assault rifles are metric - such as 9mm, 19mm, 45mm and 51mm NATO weapons?

And hasn't the US military long used metric artillery?
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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Am very ignorant of guns in general, but thought that quite a significant proportion of handguns, machine guns and assault rifles are metric - such as 9mm, 19mm, 45mm and 51mm NATO weapons?

And hasn't the US military long used metric artillery?
I’ve no idea. I was being flippant. I have no need for guns or ammunition. I’m a pacifist.
 

Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
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Am very ignorant of guns in general, but thought that quite a significant proportion of handguns, machine guns and assault rifles are metric - such as 9mm, 19mm, 45mm and 51mm NATO weapons?

And hasn't the US military long used metric artillery?

Don't forget 5.56 and 7.62. Otherwise known as AR-15 and AK-47 ammo.

Yes, atillery shells are measured in mm. ie 75mm and 105 mm howitzers.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
Am very ignorant of guns in general, but thought that quite a significant proportion of handguns, machine guns and assault rifles are metric - such as 9mm, 19mm, 45mm and 51mm NATO weapons?

And hasn't the US military long used metric artillery?
Well…

M1911 .45 ACP

.22 Long rifle

.38 Special.

.30-06 (Deer rifles), M1 Garand Carbine

.357 Magnum.

Shotguns are measured in gauge (10, 12, 16, etc) which is factored in nths of an inch:

bore-size-shotgun-gauge.jpg

But yeah, there's been a lot of European influence since the 80s I think.
 

StellarVixen

macrumors 68040
Mar 1, 2018
3,253
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Somewhere between 0 and 1
Well…

M1911 .45 ACP

.22 Long rifle

.38 Special.

.30-06 (Deer rifles), M1 Garand Carbine

.357 Magnum.

Shotguns are measured in gauge (10, 12, 16, etc) which is factored in nths of an inch:

View attachment 2019020

But yeah, there's been a lot of European influence since the 80s I think.
And in Europe, gauge is still widely accepted measure.

Walk into a gun store and ask for 18.53mm shotgun, the clerk is probably gonna stare at you weirdly.
 

polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
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Wales
Well…

M1911 .45 ACP

.22 Long rifle

.38 Special.

.30-06 (Deer rifles), M1 Garand Carbine

.357 Magnum.

Shotguns are measured in gauge (10, 12, 16, etc) which is factored in nths of an inch:

View attachment 2019020

But yeah, there's been a lot of European influence since the 80s I think.
Since at least 1957! Though it took time to dominate and there are still some non-metric and "odd" units.

(And military measure distance in klicks since 1918!)
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
I am pretty good at metric for distances. I can convert miles to kilometers and back almost without thinking. And a meter is a yard for most purposes and a centimeter is almost half and inch.

But other than 0 and 100, I have no good comparison between F and C. Yeah I can do the conversion but it is not automatic. But I have to do the conversion. I can see a meter in my head, but have no idea what 10C is without converting it (50F).

I like the shows Highway thru Hell and Heavy Rescue: 401 on The Weather Channel. Both are Canadian based series, one in BC, the other in Ontario. On the BC one, they report snow in cm, but the Ontario one reports snowfall in inches. Both use miles to describe how far away they have to travel to a wreck.
For a rough brain calibration reference, 10C=50F, 15C= 60F, 20C= 70F, and 30C= 5 short of 90F. :)
edit: typo corrected.
 
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MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,168
3,793
Lancashire UK
We cheat in the UK.
If something's 5mm we say it's 5mm not 3/16ths of an inch.
If something's an inch long we say it's an inch long not 2.54 cm

As for dates....yeah...mm/dd/yy is crazy no matter how you look at it. Either pick increasing (dd/mm/yy) or decreasing (yy/mm/dd).
 

polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
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Wales
But other than 0 and 100, I have no good comparison between F and C. Yeah I can do the conversion but it is not automatic. But I have to do the conversion. I can see a meter in my head, but have no idea what 10C is without converting it (50F).
Even as a child, when Fahrenheit was the usual standard in the UK, I found the issues around freezing point seemed odd. How can ten degrees below be 22F?

If you always hang around at minus 40, there is no problem at all with C and F.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
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Alaska
Well, here is an "immigration" table one can use, if things as F. versus C. temperatures bother you :)

It makes no difference to me. If I travel through Canada, I just adapt to whichever measuring systems are used in Canada. As for temperatures, I prefer "F." from 86 to -65 degrees which is the usual temperature range in the interior of Alaska.

By the way, some of the hunting and military guns as well are "metric" sizes, starting somewhere near 5mm and ending with the military war guns. Some examples: 5mm, 6mm, 6mm-06, 6mm Remington, 6mm Greedmoor, and so on. There is a very long list of metric size guns used by Americans:

The Other Direction​


Now let’s convert the other way, changing popular bullet inch diameters to metric: 0.224″ = 5.69mm; 0.243″ = 6.17mm; 0.257″ = 6.53mm; 0.264″ = 6.71mm; 0.277″ = 7.04mm; 0.284″ = 7.21mm; 0.308″ = 7.82mm. A reloader who has taken the time to plow through these numbers is likely thinking, “Hold on, this can’t be right! The box of bullets I just bought says 6mm .243, or 6.5mm .264. or 7mm .284. Are you suggesting bullet makers can’t read a conversion table?”
Not at all, it’s just they have another goal, which is for you the buyer to get the right bullets for the cartridge you are reloading. If you have a 6mm Rem., Creedmoor or Lapua, just get bullets marked 6mm in the weight you want and don’t fret the actual bullet diameter is 6.17mm.

Speaking of bullet weights, some of the unusual bullet weights we have are due to metric roots. By “unusual” I mean bullets for 7mm cartridges with weights of 139 gr. or 154 gr. Why not just go to 140 or 150 gr.? Well, the European practice is to measure weights in grams. A 5-gram bullet is equivalent to 77 grains. Other examples: 6/93 gr., 7/108 gr., 8/123 gr., 9/139 gr., 10/154 gr.
 
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polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
2,592
Wales
By the way, some of the hunting and military guns as well are "metric" sizes, starting somewhere near 5mm and ending with the military war guns.
I quoted military because it was so easy to get a good list - and the commonality with the rest of NATO made it so obvious. :)

That article was an excellent example of the oddity that decimal dominates. No-one nowadays measures weights as A tons, B hundredweight, C pounds, D ounces, E drams, F grains. They switch from the main unit to decimals. It's obvious why! But it establishes the pattern which applies almost everywhere. And metric units mean you don't end up with odd multiplications/divisions. Yes - we still see pounds and ounces, pints and fluid ounces, but rarely more than two units.

As here:
In this 1723 proposal to make a cistern, it is stated that 'To make the Cistern will take in Lead Besides Lapps and Flashes at 10lb to the Foot 2 Ton 16 Hund. 1 Quartr 14 lb'.
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manusc...earchguidance/weightsandmeasures/weights.aspx

Yes - I did cover some of these in school, in maths and many practical areas. But I hit full metric (mainly MKS) for all science.

PS In science, it is often necessary to switch between Kelvin and another temperature scale. The commonality of the units (Kelvin and Celsius) makes that trivial. Having Fahrenheit in there just complicates.
 

satcomer

Suspended
Feb 19, 2008
9,115
1,977
The Finger Lakes Region
If you really want Americans to embrace the metric system, convert ammunition. That will get them modernised with the rest of the world.

We already did for years because of NATO! We with the introduction of the M-16 the Army went to the original m-16 to 556 round NATO wanted to standardize ammunition across countries sense the old round sense WW2 was 30/6 round!
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
I quoted military because it was so easy to get a good list - and the commonality with the rest of NATO made it so obvious. :)

That article was an excellent example of the oddity that decimal dominates. No-one nowadays measures weights as A tons, B hundredweight, C pounds, D ounces, E drams, F grains. They switch from the main unit to decimals. It's obvious why! But it establishes the pattern which applies almost everywhere. And metric units mean you don't end up with odd multiplications/divisions. Yes - we still see pounds and ounces, pints and fluid ounces, but rarely more than two units.

As here:
In this 1723 proposal to make a cistern, it is stated that 'To make the Cistern will take in Lead Besides Lapps and Flashes at 10lb to the Foot 2 Ton 16 Hund. 1 Quartr 14 lb'.
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manusc...earchguidance/weightsandmeasures/weights.aspx

Yes - I did cover some of these in school, in maths and many practical areas. But I hit full metric (mainly MKS) for all science.

PS In science, it is often necessary to switch between Kelvin and another temperature scale. The commonality of the units (Kelvin and Celsius) makes that trivial. Having Fahrenheit in there just complicates.
Ammunition reloading is very simple for me and any US reloader as well, since all the instruction manuals and charts for powder and bullets weights is shown in grains. One has to be extremely careful not to mix grams with grains when reloading. "Grains" is used because some power charges are extremely light if done in fractions of grams. However, some of the weighing for large amounts of powder is done in grams.

An example: .5 grains of powder = 0.32399455 grams. So "trickling" .5 grains of powder to complete a charge is much easier to do (fewer marks on the scale) when the powder "trickler" is set to grains.

It is the same for me when I am in the kitchen where I prefer to measure in pounds and ounces, or cups and fractions of cups (1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 and one cup). The metric measurement system was used where I was born, but my mother never used it in the kitchen.
 
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Richard8655

macrumors 68000
Mar 11, 2009
1,925
1,372
Chicago suburbs
If you really want Americans to embrace the metric system, convert ammunition. That will get them modernised with the rest of the world.
Good point. Though the US military has been using metric for decades in most everything else. Distances are always in kilometers ("clicks") and meters. As mentioned, coordination with NATO countries is the driving factor.

But I attribute the lack of change in civil society to isolation and attachment to traditional values, though Canada didn't seem to have a problem in converting long ago (1975).
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,912
55,848
Behind the Lens, UK
Good point. Though the US military has been using metric for decades in most everything else. Distances are always in kilometers ("clicks") and meters. As mentioned, coordination with NATO countries is the driving factor.

But I attribute the lack of change in civil society to isolation and attachment to traditional values, though Canada didn't seem to have a problem in converting long ago (1975).
Also when Canada and the U.K. converted everything had to be worked out in your head. These days everyone has a calculator in their pocket and conversion apps and websites.
It really wouldn’t be that difficult. But I guess there are bigger problems in America to sort than if you use inched or centimetres.
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
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Alaska
Also when Canada and the U.K. converted everything had to be worked out in your head. These days everyone has a calculator in their pocket and conversion apps and websites.
It really wouldn’t be that difficult. But I guess there are bigger problems in America to sort than if you use inched or centimetres.
Well, your words are true. But in general, there always are more important things than arguing about metrics or inches in every nation around the world.

Hmmm...I wonder if the US measuring system is the reason why we write, "centimeter" instead of "centimetre"?

~Just kidding kidding with you :p
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,972
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The Misty Mountains
Also when Canada and the U.K. converted everything had to be worked out in your head. These days everyone has a calculator in their pocket and conversion apps and websites.
It really wouldn’t be that difficult. But I guess there are bigger problems in America to sort than if you use inched or centimetres.
Much bigger problems. Although I could deal with switching to it, I already see metric volumes at the grocery, and I think I would miss miles and English volume measuring for recipes mostly.
 

Macky-Mac

macrumors 68040
May 18, 2004
3,689
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Much bigger problems. Although I could deal with switching to it, I already see metric volumes at the grocery, and I think I would miss miles and English volume measuring for recipes mostly.

we actually use, or at least label, a lot of things in both systems. I suspect it has to do with international trade, otherwise there'd be no reason for a can of soup to be labeled with both.
 
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