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DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,779
2,877
So after 73 pages and getting close to 2,000 posts, this thread whines on about temperatures, distances, tools, weights, currency, and left vs. right side of road driving. Each and every one of those is determined by tradition and human decision. So let’s get to the real problem, one that cannot be solved by edict. That is, of course, that the water in a Northern Hemisphere toilet circulates counter-clockwise, and oppositely in the Southern Hemisphere. How is everyone dealing with this explainable yet horrific disparity? We Northerners know to a certainty the anti-clockwise direction is the only one true rotation, Southerners are just wedded to ancient practice and we in the right are incredulous at Southerners reluctance to change. Southern Hemispherians likely feel the same way about their Northern neighbors despite being appallingly wrong.

Now THIS is a topic worthy of much discourse, amiright? Fuggedabowdit for all the temp, distance, weight, etc., stuffage.

As mentioned before, the North pole of a compass points towards a South pole. Therefore the area bounded by Alaska, Canada and Siberia is actually the South pole of the Earth.
The only conclusion is that Australia, South America and Africa are 'on top', and that water going down the toilet clockwise is the only TRUE way.
The rest of you are just ill-advised...;););)
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
Off topic, I know, but.........

First time I went through this was in a large van with a fairly large trailer...... Tickled my boss's sense of humour when he sent us off for the day. "Look out, I'm coming through!"..... With a bit of help navigating from workmates (also their first time), and the patience of British drivers, we made it through and on to the correct route.

Went back on my motorcycle the next wet day to check out how it worked, and it all made sense after that. Bear in mind that folks commuting the same route every day would soon get used to it, and could allow for the odd bunch of Antipodean sheep shearers negotiating it for the first time.

On the same job we had several white vans of different makes, some set up with Euro style controls and some with UK and other parts controls. That meant the lighting and wiper controls were on different sides of the steering wheel. I never knew which one I was in until I came to indicate for the first corner of the day. After that the adjustment was made for the day.

Travelled to Europe on my motorcycle several times, and found it easy enough to adapt to riding on different sides of the road upon crossing the channel.

Relevant to this thread, is that the human brain is quite adaptable, and the American brain should have little difficulty in adapting to the almost universally adopted metric system of weights and measures....... that the arcane US Customary Units are standardised upon. Sheer pig headedness that they don't.
We do adapt the metric system when visiting or just immigrating to other countries, just as easily as visitors or immigrants from other countries do. The metric measuring system is used in neighboring nations (Canada, Mexico, central and South America, and even the Caribbean islands). When traveling through Canada we don't have any problems that are "metrics" related. The same can be said for exchange students from around the world, and even soldiers. We all adapt and get along with each other. We have a great number of soldiers, sailors, and pilots from all the NATO nations participating in naval, air, and ground exercises each year.

The metric versus the US customary measuring system is not important enough for Americans to adapt to it within the USA territory. We use metrics where needed, and the US Customary everywhere else. Some of my neighbors' homes are a "stone-throw away," and sometimes we don't see each other for several "moons" in time. :)
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,972
27,054
The Misty Mountains
Off topic, I know, but.........

First time I went through this was in a large van with a fairly large trailer...... Tickled my boss's sense of humour when he sent us off for the day. "Look out, I'm coming through!"..... With a bit of help navigating from workmates (also their first time), and the patience of British drivers, we made it through and on to the correct route.

Went back on my motorcycle the next wet day to check out how it worked, and it all made sense after that. Bear in mind that folks commuting the same route every day would soon get used to it, and could allow for the odd bunch of Antipodean sheep shearers negotiating it for the first time.

On the same job we had several white vans of different makes, some set up with Euro style controls and some with UK and other parts controls. That meant the lighting and wiper controls were on different sides of the steering wheel. I never knew which one I was in until I came to indicate for the first corner of the day. After that the adjustment was made for the day.

Travelled to Europe on my motorcycle several times, and found it easy enough to adapt to riding on different sides of the road upon crossing the channel.

Relevant to this thread, is that the human brain is quite adaptable, and the American brain should have little difficulty in adapting to the almost universally adopted metric system of weights and measures....... that the arcane US Customary Units are standardised upon. Sheer pig headedness that they don't.
You are right, that there are preferences involved, metric is pretty well ingrained in the States except for speed limits. I’d rate driving on the wrong side of the road as a more dynamic, significant mental adjustment than getting used to metric.

The first time I was exposed to this was Japan, 1982, jumped into the back seat of a car, and it was as if I was struck by disorientation as we started to move. :) It took some work, but on occasions where I now rent a car on those “ wrong side” ;) countries, I just say to myself “think left, look right”, think left for driving on the left, especially for round abouts that circulate clockwise in the UK, Japan as compared to counter-clockwise in the States and Europe, and “looking right“ for stepping into traffic.
 

Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
1,350
7,898
You are right, that there are preferences involved, metric is pretty well ingrained in the States except for speed limits. I’d rate driving on the wrong side of the road as a more dynamic, significant mental adjustment than getting used to metric.

And temperatures.

This is the big one for me. Growing up, we learn how temps feel and it is just ingrained in us. I know 60's means long sleeves, but 50's mean a sweatshirt or jacket. I know I will be comfortable in shorts in the 70's and 80's, but better not wear long sleeves in the 90's. We just "know" this.

Could we adapt to C? Sure, but it would have to be cold turkey. Wake up one day and F never existed. We would adapt and learn, but no one has the will to make us.

We can't even get rid of the one thing 90% of Americans agree on -DST.
 

polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
2,590
Wales
And temperatures.

This is the big one for me. Growing up, we learn how temps feel and it is just ingrained in us. I know 60's means long sleeves, but 50's mean a sweatshirt or jacket. I know I will be comfortable in shorts in the 70's and 80's, but better not wear long sleeves in the 90's. We just "know" this.

Could we adapt to C? Sure, but it would have to be cold turkey. Wake up one day and F never existed. We would adapt and learn, but no one has the will to make us.

We can't even get rid of the one thing 90% of Americans agree on -DST.
In the UK, we officially changed from Fahrenheit to Celsius back in 1962.

Yet, even all these years later, we still keep hearing "that's 81 in Fahrenheit" slipped into some broadcast forecasts. Despite often gabbling the rest of the forecast to fit within the short time allowed by the broadcasters, they think this is important enough to include.

And the online Met Office forecast even has an option to switch from Celsius to Fahrenheit! Can't think why anyone thought it justified the time and effort.

1705423572909.png


If sixty years isn't long enough for each of us to learn to deal with the change, then those who can't simply never will.

I agree - switch if you are going to and stop looking back asap.

Bear in mind, we were expected to cope with decimalisation of our coinage towards ten years later. And only ancient crocks (like me) even remember pounds, shillings and pence.
 

AlastorKatriona

Suspended
Nov 3, 2023
559
1,029
In the Fahrenheit world, the expression "degrees of frost" is widely used and effectively shifts freezing point to zero (arithmetically).

It is so much easier to start off with freezing point at zero.

And: Why does freezing at 32 make sense?
The point is why is freezing point of water significant enough to base the entire scale of temperature around?
 

AlastorKatriona

Suspended
Nov 3, 2023
559
1,029
?? Nobody says temps below zero aren't valid? Heck you seem to have a great talent in disproving your statements as if anything there is some nice equality in using Celsius going in either direction of defined points.


And again, they don't. Using metric when required, you can just adjust the scale. Still the same system, and avoids having to do what you don't like doing. Thus, you can have the appropriate scale for what you require, whilst not having to change systems. Yet again, you are arguing against your point.
"Today's temperate outside is 21.111° and later will be around 23.8889."

Yeah that really helps explains things. :rolleyes:

People understand and properly associate feeling with a difference of 70 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit, because that scale is proportional to what people can perceive.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,972
27,054
The Misty Mountains
And temperatures.

This is the big one for me. Growing up, we learn how temps feel and it is just ingrained in us. I know 60's means long sleeves, but 50's mean a sweatshirt or jacket. I know I will be comfortable in shorts in the 70's and 80's, but better not wear long sleeves in the 90's. We just "know" this.

Could we adapt to C? Sure, but it would have to be cold turkey. Wake up one day and F never existed. We would adapt and learn, but no one has the will to make us.

We can't even get rid of the one thing 90% of Americans agree on -DST.
Metric is not that hard as a psychological ball park: :)
  • 30C= 90F
  • 25C = 80F
  • 20C= 70F
  • 15C = 60F
  • 10C= 50F
  • 0C= 32F
  • -20C (actually -18C)= 0F
 
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polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
2,590
Wales
The point is why is freezing point of water significant enough to base the entire scale of temperature around?
Indeed, you could argue for many other temperatures to have been used.

The freezing point of water does, though, have a certain importance in that so many real world physical phenomena are seen to occur very close to that point. Many surfaces get covered in frozen water. Precipitation often becomes some form of ice rather than liquid water hence can build up rather than flow away.

But I think it much easier to see that than the zero of Fahrenheit. The eutectic temperature of ammonium chloride and water is not actually zero in Fahrenheit, and is not the coldest it ever gets in Danzig/Gdansk. And has little else that I can think of to commend it.
 
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timber

macrumors 65816
Aug 30, 2006
1,288
2,395
Lisbon
And temperatures.

This is the big one for me. Growing up, we learn how temps feel and it is just ingrained in us. I know 60's means long sleeves, but 50's mean a sweatshirt or jacket. I know I will be comfortable in shorts in the 70's and 80's, but better not wear long sleeves in the 90's. We just "know" this.

Could we adapt to C? Sure, but it would have to be cold turkey. Wake up one day and F never existed. We would adapt and learn, but no one has the will to make us.

We can't even get rid of the one thing 90% of Americans agree on -DST.
Cold turkey would be around 5º Celsius.

I will see myself out.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
The temperature in Fairbanks, Alaska is 20 degrees F. (-6.666667 C.) this afternoon, pleasant enough to wear non-insulated pajama pants on the two driveways of my house (has been snowing for a couple of days already). A very unusual winter since in January the temperatures usually are from -20 to -40 degrees F.
-40 degrees F = -40 C. :)
 
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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
Relevant to this thread, is that the human brain is quite adaptable, and the American brain should have little difficulty in adapting to the almost universally adopted metric system of weights and measures....... that the arcane US Customary Units are standardised upon. Sheer pig headedness that they don't.
Yes, we'd adapt. But mostly we don't want to and many would argue we shouldn't have to. Who are outsiders to tell us how we should measure things? That would be the argument.

Which all goes back to your very last sentence. America in a nutshell.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,043
2,720
UK
In the UK, we officially changed from Fahrenheit to Celsius back in 1962.

Yet, even all these years later, we still keep hearing "that's 81 in Fahrenheit" slipped into some broadcast forecasts. Despite often gabbling the rest of the forecast to fit within the short time allowed by the broadcasters, they think this is important enough to include.

And the online Met Office forecast even has an option to switch from Celsius to Fahrenheit! Can't think why anyone thought it justified the time and effort.

View attachment 2337157

If sixty years isn't long enough for each of us to learn to deal with the change, then those who can't simply never will.

I agree - switch if you are going to and stop looking back asap.

Bear in mind, we were expected to cope with decimalisation of our coinage towards ten years later. And only ancient crocks (like me) even remember pounds, shillings and pence.
I think they just kept it for the older generations, my children born and raised in the UK never used Fahrenheit. School touches upon it as a topic just like Kelvin and other scales. But they just use Celsius. It will just die naturally.

"Today's temperate outside is 21.111° and later will be around 23.8889."

Yeah that really helps explains things. :rolleyes:

People understand and properly associate feeling with a difference of 70 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit, because that scale is proportional to what people can perceive.
You are just being silly. Why apart from scientific measurements would anyone need that degree of accuracy? Heck, if you take two steps away from your location, you'll get a temperature fluctuation. More normal people just call that 21 degree or 24 degrees ;) The human skin and sensory perception isn't that accurate.
 

polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
2,590
Wales
I think they just kept it for the older generations, my children born and raised in the UK never used Fahrenheit. School touches upon it as a topic just like Kelvin and other scales. But they just use Celsius. It will just die naturally.


You are just being silly. Why apart from scientific measurements would anyone need that degree of accuracy? Heck, if you take two steps away from your location, you'll get a temperature fluctuation. More normal people just call that 21 degree or 24 degrees ;) The human skin and sensory perception isn't that accurate.
Human skin has phenomenal ability to detect tiny changes - in ideal laboratory conditions, down to 0.02 C!

I was amazed. But that isn't how warm/cold we feel - that is the smallest change in temperature that any part of the human body can detect.

But I completely agree, we don't need more than nearest degree. Especially as how we feel integrates the effects of the temperature, air movement, humidity, insolation, etc. Being super-accurate about temperature alone means nothing.

I should be one of the older generation, but I was brought up using both. I actually remember discussions at home over sixty years ago and trying to understand why we needed to add/subtract a mysterious 32! And the flimsy speedometer converters for cars. (I was in Germany at the time but many cars were British.)
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,043
2,720
UK
Hehehe my wife is English, and I'm Dutch. Technically she grew up on metric but her parents, grandparents etc were still using Imperial. We managed fine between us. LOL We have had more difficulty about double meanings in language such as that I'm all right doesn't necessarily means that on is all right in British English. Or that interesting often means the opposite when someone says that. Give me a direct Germanic language any day :p
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
Hehehe my wife is English, and I'm Dutch. Technically she grew up on metric but her parents, grandparents etc were still using Imperial. We managed fine between us. LOL We have had more difficulty about double meanings in language such as that I'm all right doesn't necessarily means that on is all right in British English. Or that interesting often means the opposite when someone says that. Give me a direct Germanic language any day :p
I was born in a place where the metric measuring system was used, but it didn't take very long at all to become familiar with the US customary system once I moved to the US. Metrics in my memory has faded, but still remember my father and mother saying things like kilometer, "kilo" (weight), and things like that. However, in the kitchen my mother used the cup and fractions of cup, tablespoon, ounces, and so on. I like the US customary system much more than metrics, specially in relation to ambient temperatures and such. I feel the same in reference to mile versus kilometer per hour. On the road I prefer MPH, maybe because I pass the KPH sign sooner than the MPH sign? ~just kidding! :)

One thing that I certainly enjoy in the US is the freedom to use whichever measuring system I want to use in my daily life. In this case, I use "metrics" where required, and the US customary (or a combination of both) by choice the rest of the time. The same for the 24-HR and 12-HR clock, and the date format. I use the US date format where it is required, but the rest of the time I use one or the other at will.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,904
55,843
Behind the Lens, UK
I was born in a place where the metric measuring system was used, but it didn't take very long at all to become familiar with the US customary system once I moved to the US. Metrics in my memory has faded, but still remember my father and mother saying things like kilometer, "kilo" (weight), and things like that. However, in the kitchen my mother used the cup and fractions of cup, tablespoon, ounces, and so on. I like the US customary system much more than metrics, specially in relation to ambient temperatures and such. I feel the same in reference to mile versus kilometer per hour. On the road I prefer MPH, maybe because I pass the KPH sign sooner than the MPH sign? ~just kidding! :)

One thing that I certainly enjoy in the US is the freedom to use whichever measuring system I want to use in my daily life. In this case, I use "metrics" where required, and the US customary (or a combination of both) by choice the rest of the time. The same for the 24-HR and 12-HR clock, and the date format. I use the US date format where it is required, but the rest of the time I use one or the other at will.
Imagine if 0-60mph times became 0-60km times? I’d have trouble getting my head around that!
 
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polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
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I thought the approximate equivalent was 0-100 km/hr times
For many years, at least in the UK, people (including manufacturers, dealers, journalists, etc.) have quoted 0-100 km/h times as if they were 0-60, and failed to make it clear they are more like 0-62.5.

Not a massive difference. But I think it emphasises that the industry is pretty much 100% metric whatever they say in public.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,043
2,720
UK
For many years, at least in the UK, people (including manufacturers, dealers, journalists, etc.) have quoted 0-100 km/h times as if they were 0-60, and failed to make it clear they are more like 0-62.5.

Not a massive difference. But I think it emphasises that the industry is pretty much 100% metric whatever they say in public.

Sometimes it made some difference as some cars required shifting there and 0-60 was a little bit faster than 0-100.
And then there is Tesla; they are naughty and don't include the rollout. That is OK when doing motorsport, but come on, every other road — going car manufacturer includes actual times in full. And yup, those 11 inches (ca. 28 cm) make a big difference at that level and with an EV.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
Imagine if 0-60mph times became 0-60km times? I’d have trouble getting my head around that!
True. Do cars in Europe show only KPH on the odometer? Cars in the US have both MPH and KPH, so when driving through Canada I just pay attention to the KPH scale. Canadians traveling in the US pay attention to the MPH numbers; otherwise they would be... safely driving under the speed limit :)
 
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