Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
1,350
7,898
But at least it is simple. Rather than 1728 cubic inches to the cubic foot, 27 cubic feet in a cubic yard, and 43560 cubic feet in an acre-foot. Does any real person remember these factors?

Sort of. Having a construction background, 9 sq/ft in a sq yard and 27 ft in a cu/yd are quite common. And using 43,000 as a rough measurement for an acre works as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: polyphenol

Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
1,350
7,898
I would earnestly like to know why Phoenix, AZ, and other surrounding cities, have within the past 20 years taken a keen interest in traffic circle intersections. It confuses the heck out of American drivers and some of the less patient ones take shortcuts.

I love them. Well most of them. There are 7 on 260 from I-17 into Cottonwood. I would be pissed if these were stop signs or traffic lights.

Now the 2 in Sedona at the 89A/179 intersection are a PITA. They will back up traffic in no time. Those need to be lights.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eyoungren

drrich2

macrumors 6502
Jan 11, 2005
383
285
Rather than 1728 cubic inches to the cubic foot, 27 cubic feet in a cubic yard, and 43560 cubic feet in an acre-foot. Does any real person remember these factors?
Most people don't, and the average Joe doesn't do a lot of conversions (or metric would be more compelling).

For volume, we tend to use quite the mix - cc or ml or teaspoons or tablespoons for medications, and pint/quart/gallon for moderate fluid volumes (except we've gotten used to 2-L size bottled sodas). The main place I see cubic feet is buying topsoil type products by the bag, and I know a mulch and soil place that sells by the cubic yard.

For area, we tend to think in terms of square feet, acres or square miles, and again, the average Joe doesn't do much converting. A person estimating the cost of shingles for the roof gets it in square feet; it never occurs to him to ask what fraction of an acre his roof's surface area is.

I think this is a big part of why the average U.S. citizen can't be bothered to switch to metric, because it's a hassle and most people the overwhelming majority of the time don't do conversions enough for metric's advantage to mean much.

That said, it does bring confusion at times. I can't remember how many teaspoons in a tablespoon.
 
Last edited:

Chuckeee

macrumors 68040
Aug 18, 2023
3,010
8,634
Southern California
1. I think I explained what's the problem with that. Decimals shouldn't be necessary for expressing common thresholds. That's a failure of the measurement system.
2. So the answer to this issue is just: be inaccurate, rather than deal with decimal?! Wow.

I'm not attacking you personally my friend, I'm just highlighting how people have come to accept and justify the nonsense that are these inadequate measurement scales.
You mean like “normal body temperature” [although I just read that these traditional values are potentially being revised] of 98.6 degrees F or 37 degrees C.

Oops I guess this proves the opposite of your statement.
 

Icelus

macrumors 6502
Nov 3, 2018
416
556
I would earnestly like to know why Phoenix, AZ, and other surrounding cities, have within the past 20 years taken a keen interest in traffic circle intersections. It confuses the heck out of American drivers and some of the less patient ones take shortcuts.

There is a dual lane traffic circle in Tolleson at 99th Ave and Lower Buckeye that causes traffic backup in all four directions because people can't figure out how to enter. There is a traffic circle in my own community that people have trouble negotiating. And someone, somehow flattened a sign in the center of the circle! How do you flatten a sign in the center?!!!!

I have seen drivers drive in the OPPOSITE direction of traffic flow because they did not want to take the circle around to make a 90º left turn. It's crazy! I suspect the idea is to avoid traffic lights and stop signs with a traditional intersection but Americans have real problems with these things.

View attachment 2335791
Better not visit this one then.

y81i2mgimaea1.jpg


 

DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,779
2,877
I would earnestly like to know why Phoenix, AZ, and other surrounding cities, have within the past 20 years taken a keen interest in traffic circle intersections. It confuses the heck out of American drivers and some of the less patient ones take shortcuts.

There is a dual lane traffic circle in Tolleson at 99th Ave and Lower Buckeye that causes traffic backup in all four directions because people can't figure out how to enter. There is a traffic circle in my own community that people have trouble negotiating. And someone, somehow flattened a sign in the center of the circle! How do you flatten a sign in the center?!!!!

I have seen drivers drive in the OPPOSITE direction of traffic flow because they did not want to take the circle around to make a 90º left turn. It's crazy! I suspect the idea is to avoid traffic lights and stop signs with a traditional intersection but Americans have real problems with these things.

View attachment 2335791

The very simple reason for using a roundabout/traffic circle is that they reduce the seriousness of accidents. Vehicles that hit each other tend to be travelling somewhat in the same direction, so damage to the cars and occupants is generally reduced.
 

AlastorKatriona

Suspended
Nov 3, 2023
559
1,029
Having freezing at 0 degrees seems pretty logical to me. Perfect scientific reference point as well ;)

Same as the measurements. The meter is old, the exact measurement is stored. And for people like you who don’t like decimal point you can use the metric system to easily and logically change the scale. By using Kilo, centi, mili, nano etc versions.
Why does freezing at 0 make sense? The temps below zero are just as valid and useful as those above zero. It seems "clean" at first glance, but to base the entire scale on that is weird.
What do you do regarding lengths shorter than an inch? (Metric conveniently drops to millimetres. Which is a length which is small enough that it tends to be mostly technical things, science, etc., that require smaller units.)

Either fractions or thousandths, I suspect. Which appears to be a bit of a failure of the measurement system.

And I suspect that one foot is not the most common whole size in the world.

Personally, 22 centimetres is a very common unit for me. That is my hand span (or very close). 8⅝ inches is a real pain!

(It is also a real pain entering fractions when typing.)
No where did I say you can't use fractions or decimals. Of course you have to. The point though, was that the most common and basic measurements should not start out as a fractions or decimals. Whole numbers should be usable wherever possible, and the measurement system should be designed that way. If you find yourself having to use fractions or decimals all the time, then your scale is too small, and not adequate for measuring what you're measuring.
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
16,120
2,397
Lard
Nothing 'tosh' about it; it's how we think and do things. We don't need to be in keeping with the 'rest of the world' on date format. From what I'm told the U.S. is larger than Western Europe and has around 330 million people; that's a large area and many people operating this way, even if technically one nation. Plus, from what you note, the 'rest of the world' isn't in agreement, either.

A great irony here is that when I read foreigner impressions of American tourists abroad, one criticism is of Americans expecting things elsewhere to be and work like they do 'back home.'
There is another great irony: the U.S. military uses day/month/year format. Those deployed abroad need to change their thinking to go outside a base, as the country is not going to change for Americans.

In programming for databases, I would rather use year/month/day, as it makes comparisons easier, and there is no guesswork as to which alternative format it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: polyphenol

polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,111
2,590
Wales
Now imagine a nation larger than Western Europe with 330 million people where everyone is a teacher and thinks in terms. It would be no great shock it they formatted dates to reflect how they conceived of and structured time.
Imagine a country bigger than the USA and Europe put together!

India (DMY, YMD)? China (YMD)?

Probably got quite a number of teachers in each of them.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,043
2,721
UK
I would earnestly like to know why Phoenix, AZ, and other surrounding cities, have within the past 20 years taken a keen interest in traffic circle intersections. It confuses the heck out of American drivers and some of the less patient ones take shortcuts.

There is a dual lane traffic circle in Tolleson at 99th Ave and Lower Buckeye that causes traffic backup in all four directions because people can't figure out how to enter. There is a traffic circle in my own community that people have trouble negotiating. And someone, somehow flattened a sign in the center of the circle! How do you flatten a sign in the center?!!!!

I have seen drivers drive in the OPPOSITE direction of traffic flow because they did not want to take the circle around to make a 90º left turn. It's crazy! I suspect the idea is to avoid traffic lights and stop signs with a traditional intersection but Americans have real problems with these things.

View attachment 2335791
I'd love to see them try the one that is not too far away from me; may I present to you the Hemel Hempstead magic roundabout. One traffic circle, with six embedded smaller traffic circles. :p

It's a fun dance around it…

b25lY21zOmVkODczMjMxLTU3NmEtNDlkYi1hOGU0LTA1MThmZGY3ZTY1MTphODVmMDllOC01YTgzLTQ1MmUtYWJkNS1hMT...jpg
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,043
2,721
UK
Why does freezing at 0 make sense? The temps below zero are just as valid and useful as those above zero. It seems "clean" at first glance, but to base the entire scale on that is weird.
?? Nobody says temps below zero aren't valid? Heck you seem to have a great talent in disproving your statements as if anything there is some nice equality in using Celsius going in either direction of defined points.

No where did I say you can't use fractions or decimals. Of course you have to. The point though, was that the most common and basic measurements should not start out as a fractions or decimals. Whole numbers should be usable wherever possible, and the measurement system should be designed that way. If you find yourself having to use fractions or decimals all the time, then your scale is too small, and not adequate for measuring what you're measuring.
And again, they don't. Using metric when required, you can just adjust the scale. Still the same system, and avoids having to do what you don't like doing. Thus, you can have the appropriate scale for what you require, whilst not having to change systems. Yet again, you are arguing against your point.
 

drrich2

macrumors 6502
Jan 11, 2005
383
285
The point though, was that the most common and basic measurements should not start out as a fractions or decimals. Whole numbers should be usable wherever possible, and the measurement system should be designed that way.
That's an interesting point. In order to achieve it in use, we often report a person's height in feet and inches, such as 6 feet, 1 inch tall. We pretty much never say someone is 6 1/12th feet tall, or around 6.1 feet tall, etc...

But if I understand correctly, a European would probably give his height in meters with a decimal, or in centimeters, but not likely 1-meter + x-centimeters.

Richard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cyb3rdud3

timber

macrumors 65816
Aug 30, 2006
1,288
2,395
Lisbon
Refering to someone's height as one eighty (for example) is quite common. At least in my language. Saying 1.8 is common, 1 80 is common (you don't need to say extensively one meter 80 centimetres, the other person will know) but saying 180 is not that common.
Everyone system evolves to be quick in use.
The metric system, the 24 hour system may sound weird or even alien or pretentious but from it's users pov which use it exclusively it's just the measuring system and it's second nature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: drrich2

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
There is another great irony: the U.S. military uses day/month/year format. Those deployed abroad need to change their thinking to go outside a base, as the country is not going to change for Americans.

In programming for databases, I would rather use year/month/day, as it makes comparisons easier, and there is no guesswork as to which alternative format it is.
Military members do in fact adapt to the date formats used in other countries, and some even learn some of the spoken languages. While a certain date format is used at the military base, military members have to use whichever date format is used in the local communities. In some places in Asia, it would be quite difficult to ask for the right food to eat at restaurants near the military bases, unless you learn the language. The most delicious foods are found in the local communities, and even street vendors.

The same is done by students from overseas attending US universities. In addition to the metric measuring system they use at the lab or classroom, they adapt to the US Customary Units used in the nearby communities.
 
Last edited:

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
I did that once, and I never returned to see them again. It's no wonder Arizona has a state highway, so I-10 drivers can avoid Phoenix.
I was actively braking for a yellow light the other day, with a car to my right also braking for the yellow. There was no way I would have made it through before it turned red. I'm on a three lane street with the far right lane being a right hand turn lane. Some guy that is about four car lengths behind me floors it and goes into the right hand turn lane, pulls around the guy to my right and blows through the light a full second after it turned red.

It's just nuts around here. People treat the traffic laws and traffic lights/stop signs as if they are suggestions and don't apply to them.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.