Why the heck does America still use outdated measurement and date units?

[timber]

So here is my 2 cents:

There are distinct advantages and disadvantages to both systems of measurement. I happily use both based upon the need of the moment. I prefer Fahrenheit over celsius, because the Fahrenheit system provides finer resolution. I prefer grams over ounces for the same reason. The absolute beauty of the not standardizing on the metric system is having the freedom to utilize the best system of measurement for the specific task at hand. The metric system only allows a single base unit for any specific measurement... grams for mass/ weight, meters for distance, etc. However, if I ask you the distance from the Earth to the Sun how do you answer? I would say 1 AU... but the metric system requires you to use meters. Good luck with that answer. It gets worse when you are talking about light-years. How about the weight of an asteroid... in grams.

It may seem easy to use the metric system, but I regularly confuse people - even the metric-minded (brainwashed) by using unusual measurements... such as decimeters, or centigrams. Why? Because those metric-lovers are just as closed minded in their thinking as everybody else (they can visualize a mm, cm, or meter, but never think of decimeter - or dekameter for that matter). More, as the metric system tries to cope with ever larger values they institute more and more prefixes, which creates confusion for those who did not initially learn them as well as requiring people to memorize more and more prefixes (who learned what yotta, ronna or quetta was?). Some of those metric-wonks like to toss out cascading prefix values to overcome the inherent measurement limitations with the metric system - mega-giga-gigagrams, and silliness like that.

In the USA we are free to use metric if we choose. We are also free to use any other measurement units we choose... even parsecs!

If you use inches around here the metric police won't show up, so no worries. The street signs will be in kms but we can live with that.
To measure the Earth to the Sun we would also use AU (or UA in my native language) which is approximately 150 million kms. How do I remember this stuff? My son learned this last year in the 8th grade.
An asteroid would be measured in tonnes or kg i.e. one million grams or one thousand grams. When you learn that (in the 2 or 3rd grade, can't quite remember) you learn the scale, not just the main unit.
The same for meters, square, cubic meters, liters and so one. Considering you only have to know how to divide by 10, 100 or 1000 it's not exactly rocket science.
Not all the positions have the same use in practice but decimeters has some use, not as much as km, meters, centimeters and milimeters but sometimes it shows up in some uses. It's easy, the power of ten. If someone gets confused with this ... well they didn't learn anything very well.
In a recipe for exemple it's quite common to find liters, deciliters and milliliters in the same recipe, sometimes even centiliters.
Yes, the other sufixes and prefixes are also learned but by then we tend to used powers, for exemple nobody says the speed of light in 300 000 km/s, usually is 3*10^8 m/s.

 

[Herdfan]

Yes, and I also know a few other things to go along with losing the socket...

Lots of cussing. LOL

 

[jlc1978]

tonnes

Metric, short, long, freight (US or UK) or refrigeration?

 

[timber]

I literally wrote that is the same than 1000 kg so it's quite obvious.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Trust me, any guy who has lost a 10mm socket knows metric. 😂

A 10mm socket? What "drive" size, 1/4-inch, or perhaps 3/8-inch? 😅

 

[jlc1978]

I literally wrote that is the same than 1000 kg so it's quite obvious.

weight or mass?

 

[polyphenol]

weight or mass?

Kilogram is mass. Weight should be newtons.

 

[jlc1978]

Kilogram is mass. Weight should be newtons.

Correct, but you can’t buy 10 newtons of bananas; just as no one uses slugs in the imperial system.

Then, of course, there are the apothecary, avoirdupois and troy measurements; which is why a pound of gold = pound of feathers.

 

[polyphenol]

Correct, but you can’t buy 10 newtons of bananas; just as no one uses slugs in the imperial system.

Then, of course, there are the apothecary, avoirdupois and troy measurements; which is why a pound of gold = pound of feathers.

Sort-of, you can. Just because the scale displays one kilogram doesn't not mean that it isn't actually a force detector which is scaled (ha!) to display in the familiar mass units.

And it would read differently in locations subject to gravitational anomalies, at altitude, etc.

 

[splifingate]

It appears that the USA is different and references a nominal ID but actually makes the pipes to standard ODs.

This is where my eyes blur . . .

Ex.:

I purchased a DIY Lover's Dream-Come-True house. The Bank referred to such a construct as being highlighted by multiple "Deferred Maintenance" scenarios.

Water-piping was copper, and I chose to keep things the same.

I learned to sweat copper, and successfully re-plumbed the entirety (USD600 DIY vs USD6K Pro).

I find/found two choices available at my local DIY Resource: thick, and thin (the nomenclature of which entirely escapes me, right now (L vs M?)).

Suffice it to say (in the interest of not having to re-mount this endeavour sooner (rather then later)) that I chose the thick-walled copper

US Residential Standards are 1/2" and 3/4" ID

I didn't directly measure the actual OD of the thin/thick piping . . . I tacitly chose to accept that I was purchasing either 1/2", or 3/4" piping material; albeit with a wall-thickness that implied greater use-case duration.

That being said (and with a wealth of experience using various piping-standards (PVC, copper) over-the-years), my assumptions have been that--no matter the thickness of the piping units--flow-rates are defined/mitigated by ID, and that's what determines the, er, Standards

 

[polyphenol]

This is where my eyes blur . . .

Ex.:

I purchased a DIY Lover's Dream-Come-True house. The Bank referred to such a construct as being highlighted by multiple "Deferred Maintenance" scenarios.

Water-piping was copper, and I chose to keep things the same.

I learned to sweat copper, and successfully re-plumbed the entirety (USD600 DIY vs USD6K Pro).

I find/found two choices available at my local DIY Resource: thick, and thin (the nomenclature of which entirely escapes me, right now (L vs M?)).

Suffice it to say (in the interest of not having to re-mount this endeavour sooner (rather then later)) that I chose the thick-walled copper

US Residential Standards are 1/2" and 3/4" ID

I didn't directly measure the actual OD of the thin/thick piping . . . I tacitly chose to accept that I was purchasing either 1/2", or 3/4" piping material; albeit with a wall-thickness that implied greater use-case duration.

That being said (and with a wealth of experience using various piping-standards (PVC, copper) over-the-years), my assumptions have been that--no matter the thickness of the piping units--flow-rates are defined/mitigated by ID, and that's what determines the, er, Standards

Indeed - flow and ID. And occasionally it would be inappropriate to use thick-walled (likely plastic) pipe, especially with inserts, where the ID is towards marginal.

I've read of L & M. And I know that old copper pipe (e.g. 1960s and earlier) was thicker than current pipe. But using OD means we in the UK can use the same fittings (soldered, compression, push-fit) regardless of pipe wall thickness.

PS Don't solder plastic pipe.

 

[Herdfan]

A 10mm socket? What "drive" size, 1/4-inch, or perhaps 3/8-inch? 😅

I know. Dumbest thing EVER.

I have a SXS and all the factory bolts are metric. But for some reason, a few aftermarket suppliers use SAE. STOP.

There is no good reason for us to continue with both.

Do you happen to have any metric drill bits?

 

[Apple fanboy]

I know. Dumbest thing EVER.

I have a SXS and all the factory bolts are metric. But for some reason, a few aftermarket suppliers use SAE. STOP.

There is no good reason for us to continue with both.

Do you happen to have any metric drill bits?

All my drill bits are metric. Have been for years.

 

[splifingate]

PS Don't solder plastic pipe.

*oops*

Silliness-aside: it's (frustratingly) satisfying to know that "Standard" is just not standard, across many fields 🤷‍♂️

 

[jlc1978]

*oops*

Silliness-aside: it's (frustratingly) satisfying to know that "Standard" is just not standard, across many fields 🤷‍♂️

RS232. RS stands for “Relativity Standard”

 

[splifingate]

RS232. RS stands for “Relativity Standard”

I accept this Recommendation

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I know. Dumbest thing EVER.

I have a SXS and all the factory bolts are metric. But for some reason, a few aftermarket suppliers use SAE. STOP.

There is no good reason for us to continue with both.

Do you happen to have any metric drill bits?

I prefer and use both. In relation to the "drive sizes," these numbers are internationally set for life and aren't going to change. So one can use metric or SAE sockets, or your own socket design, all driven by the standard socket-drive sizes as follows: the most common drive sizes are 1/4-inch, 3/8-inch, and 1/2-inch, but there are numerous other sizes. I have some drivers (ratchets, extensions, torque wrenches, and even power tools, of drive sizes starting at 3/8" to 2 inches. Also have metric and "other" drill bits and adapters. The most common drive sizes used for portable 12 to 20-volt power tools (drills and drivers, including impact drivers) are 3/8" and 1/2". My 20-VDC power tools have the 1/2" drive, because of the high torque these tools produce.

The reasons for specific socket "drive size" is because of a few engineering factors, most relating to metal strength. Explained below, although the article refers to SAE socket sizes. However, when reading the article just imagine that you are using a metric socket, since the drive size has nothing to do with the socket being metric or not:

Choosing The Proper Drive Size

www.wrighttool.com

A 3/8-in. drive socket is 25 percent stronger, but also .022 inches larger in diameter than the 1/4-inch drive socket. A 1/2-inch drive socket is an additional 21 percent stronger and .027 inches larger in diameter.

Most of the time, the best way to choose a drive size is by choosing a drive with handles long enough to provide the required leverage, but not so long that the fasteners will break from overloading. Ideally, sockets should be designed so that each consecutive larger drive has stronger and larger sockets. This provides a wide choice of tools for a variety of fastener strengths from copper electrical fasteners to hardened alloy steel fasteners. Hitting the handle with a hammer or lengthening it with a cheater bar may overload both the socket and the handle and is never recommended.

 

[Herdfan]

All my drill bits are metric. Have been for years.

So do stores there carry the metric ones? All you can get here at the big box and hardware stores are the SAE ones. IF you want metric you need to go to Amazon. If you want good ones, then you need to go to someplace like Grainger.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So do stores there carry the metric ones? All you can get here at the big box and hardware stores are the SAE ones. IF you want metric you need to go to Amazon. If you want good ones, then you need to go to someplace like Grainger.

Metric only here in the stores for years. But I mostly by online.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Metric only here in the stores for years. But I mostly by online.

In Alaska and the rest of the US, automobile parts and hardware stores have both metric and SAE. Lowe's, Home Depot, Amazon, and so on also sell metric and SAE tools, but I seldom buy socket and wrench sets from online stores since these tools are locally available. US tool makers, including Craftsman, SnapOn, etc. make both metric and SAE tools. Some companies have tool delivery trucks that are driven to mechanic shops once or twice per month to sell tools to mechanic shops, but these tools are more expensive than average tools. SnapOn is one of those companies.

I usually buy sets that include both SAE and metric sockets and wrenches, but every now and then I have to buy impact sockets that are metric. However, if I can't find the metric socket or wrench I need, I just use an SAE socket or wrench. Most times I don't have to look at the wrench or socket size (the number) to know that it is the correct size, regardless of being metric or not.

So do stores there carry the metric ones? All you can get here at the big box and hardware stores are the SAE ones. IF you want metric you need to go to Amazon. If you want good ones, then you need to go to someplace like Grainger.

I am assuming that you don't live in the US (?)

 

[jlc1978]

US tool makers, including Craftsman, SnapOn, etc. make both metric and SAE tools.

Sadly, many Craftsman tools are no longer US made. Snap-On and Mac, are, AFAIK.

 

[Herdfan]

In Alaska and the rest of the US, automobile parts and hardware stores have both metric and SAE.

Drill bits? Never seen them in a Lowe's or Home Depot.

I am assuming that you don't live in the US (?)

I do. Originally WV and now AZ.

 

[eyoungren]

I am assuming that you don't live in the US (?)

I do. Originally WV and now AZ.

He's a neighbor. By a couple hundred miles.

 

[Derek Morton]

If you use inches around here the metric police won't show up, so no worries. The street signs will be in kms but we can live with that.
To measure the Earth to the Sun we would also use AU (or UA in my native language) which is approximately 150 million kms. How do I remember this stuff? My son learned this last year in the 8th grade.
An asteroid would be measured in tonnes or kg i.e. one million grams or one thousand grams. When you learn that (in the 2 or 3rd grade, can't quite remember) you learn the scale, not just the main unit.
The same for meters, square, cubic meters, liters and so one. Considering you only have to know how to divide by 10, 100 or 1000 it's not exactly rocket science.
Not all the positions have the same use in practice but decimeters has some use, not as much as km, meters, centimeters and milimeters but sometimes it shows up in some uses. It's easy, the power of ten. If someone gets confused with this ... well they didn't learn anything very well.
In a recipe for exemple it's quite common to find liters, deciliters and milliliters in the same recipe, sometimes even centiliters.
Yes, the other sufixes and prefixes are also learned but by then we tend to used powers, for exemple nobody says the speed of light in 300 000 km/s, usually is 3*10^8 m/s.

Oh no! AUs, LYs, Parsecs and Tonnes cannot be tolerated!!! If you allow folks to deviate from the single authorized unit of measurement, the next thing you know they will be talking about feet, hands, karats, troy ounces and the like... anarchy will soon follow with the father's of metric lore trying to create units of measurement for cats and dogs falling from the sky.

 

[Herdfan]

He's a neighbor. By a couple hundred miles.

Not that far.

I am 82 miles from the I-17/101 intersection. Plus however far you are from there.

But the important thing is how far you are from the new Buc-ees. LOL. I will be there on opening day to get a brisket sammich.