Why there's no new Mac Pro...

[FluJunkie]

The HP had twice as many USB ports and two of them are version 3.0 (vs. MacPro's 2.0 only support.) Yes, there is probably some processor performance differences, but I would guess not that much.

*Gasp* Twice as many USB ports?

If Apple added 10 USB ports to the front, didn't update the GPU or CPU at all, would you consider that a successful refresh?

I'm starting to think that Apple's view of a pro user differs from what most people here using a Mac Pro would view as a pro user. I'm sorry to say that I just don't see any of the so called Macbook Pro machines as a Pro machine. "Pro" is just a product differentiator now that commands a higher cost, it no longer signifies the type of user. Any machine (Retina MBP currently, the others will follow) that locks you in a set quantity of RAM and storage at purchase time is just a large iPad - it is a consumer device and nothing more. And that is the direction I think they may be taking with the Mac Pro, the exciting new 2013 Mac Pro could effectively end up being a slightly bigger Mac Mini, maybe with a desktop graphics card but with far less expansion potential than the current machine.

I don't necessarily think this is true - first, the storage isn't necessarily locked in (I have faith the OWC guys will have replacement SSDs for the rMBP). I think calling a rMBP a "large iPad" is extremely disingenuous - it's a very, very powerful machine, and absolutely suited for a large number of "Pro" applications in a way either a more consumer oriented laptop (the Air) or an iPad isn't even close.

I could comfortably run the entirety of my research from a rMBP, with the exception of the stuff that belongs on a cluster. That, to me, defines a Pro laptop - being able to pop more RAM in is nice, but not necessary.


I think what the "Apple could design it!" people are missing is that because Apple can do something doesn't mean it is profitable or wise to do so. Right now, they let Intel (rightly) do most of the heavy lifting for their Mac Pro R&D, using their designs. While Apple could bring that in house, that involves ramping up an entire design branch that Apple doesn't necessarily have. That's incredibly costly when you compare it to "Call us when you have something Intel", and for a niche product, may not actually be worthwhile.

Basically, the argument for the survival of the Pro as a niche product ("It's basically free to develop for Apple") is mutually incompatible with Apple freeing itself from Intel's development cycle.

What I think is actually rather awkward is that the Mac Pro market isn't professional enough. Thunderbolt isn't so much an important enterprise product at the moment, so integrating it into what is essentially a workstation/server line has got to be a fairly low priority for Intel, but a high one for Apple. That makes for awkward timing.

 

[Melbourne Park]

...
One of the "Problems" with the Mac Pro core design is that it hasn't been re-thought in a long time. It is probably much easier for Apple to tweak the others which have moved more, if only because they have done it more recently.

Well ... Apple strategy has been to shrink, and to fix. So, make your mind up about your RAM, your GPU, your disk capacity, and then buy. For expansion, it up to how one connects.

And that is totally different from what a Mac Pro offers. Add in any of those philosophies from the mac books, and what the Mac Pro offers will be diminished.

Strategically, the Retina is at one end, and the Mac Pro the other. And everything in between, is stuck in the middle. And people are still buying Mac Pros. Because they do work, and they offer value in many cases. Plus, they are expandable and they last. Its no wonder that Apple was prepared to sell them even after USB 3 and Thunderbolt have appeared in the note books. Such features in a Mac Pro are not a big deal. With USB three, they are a card away.

 

[Panther Al]

Trucks are cool too.

Image

Translation: Even a Mercedes can deliver sheer driving pleasure.

Oh I SOOO need a hi-res version of that. I work in an office full of merc owners - and they need to be educated.

 

[theSeb]

Oh I SOOO need a hi-res version of that. I work in an office full of merc owners - and they need to be educated.

I can't find a hi-res version of it unfortunately. I first discovered the advert thanks to one my mates whose dad works at BMW and he had the print versions. Merc responded to the advert as well with their own funny version.

Maybe if I try searching for zee German text...

 

[Panther Al]

I can't find a hi-res version of it unfortunately. I first discovered the advert thanks to one my mates whose dad works at BMW and he had the print versions. Merc responded to the advert as well with their own funny version.

Maybe if I try searching for zee German text...

Shame... that is so begging for a widescreen wallpaper.

 

[poobah]

Why there's no new Mac Pro....

because the existing ones are doing their jobs just fine.
I wouldn't replace my 2008 3,1 if there were a shiny new 2012 model, because the '08 is rocking along just fine. A SSD and a new graphics card make it a brand new machine.

 

[xgman]

Why there's no new Mac Pro....

because the existing ones are doing their jobs just fine.
I wouldn't replace my 2008 3,1 if there were a shiny new 2012 model, because the '08 is rocking along just fine. A SSD and a new graphics card make it a brand new machine.

My car is running fine too, but that doesn't keep the manufactures from coming up with new models each year.

 

[spock2112]

My car is running fine too, but that doesn't keep the manufactures from coming up with new models each year.

Exactly. I've got 6 Mac Pros here -- a pair of 12-core 2010s and 4 8-core machines (one going back to a 2,1). Even the 12-cores bog down on some jobs. A 16-core E5-2600 machine living mostly in Linux has had to take over this load. More cores and higher max RAM gets the job done better.

Just because the old machines do the old tasks just fine doesn't mean people don't have new tasks they buckle under. Just because old tasks run, doesn't mean they can't run faster. Just because they work for some, doesn't mean they work for all.

By the same token, just because I have jobs that I run on Macs that tap out these machines doesn't mean that Apple must update to keep me happy. It's a niche market and despite their good success here (I know a good number in my situation that run Mac Pros for the same reasons), it's not large. Supporting it may just not be worth it.

 

[calaverasgrande]

Stop doing this. You will only "telegraph" that you know little about computing design. A $700 Pavillion is going to look comparable in specs to someone that doesn't know what to look for. The Mac Pro is designed for heavy duty use. Bigger power supply, even the motherboard that Xeons use have heavier layers so that they can withstand being on 24 hours a day if called upon.

There's a reason why HP also sells Xeon based workstations and they aren't Pavillion priced. Durability is a hallmark of Xeon workstations.

exactly. I have this conversation with the head of our art dept every week.
He says he wants to dump the $10,000 mac pros for some $20,000 HP workstations. HP makes some crazy Xeon based workstations that can take more ram, more hard drives, and more CPU than current Mac offerings.
But then you have an ugly HP with HP bloatware all over it.

 

[Panther Al]

My car is running fine too, but that doesn't keep the manufactures from coming up with new models each year.

Yes, but is it an M?





Just to bring the thread back on...err, offish topic.

 

[derbothaus]

exactly. I have this conversation with the head of our art dept every week.
He says he wants to dump the $10,000 mac pros for some $20,000 HP workstations. HP makes some crazy Xeon based workstations that can take more ram, more hard drives, and more CPU than current Mac offerings.
But then you have an ugly HP with HP bloatware all over it.

You can avoid all that by reinstalling a fresh OS copy and then NOT download crap. You can very easily streamline a PC. Especially the pro level machines. The real disaster is when you buy something from Best Buy or similar. THAT has all the illicit garbage. Of course that does not change the plastic wrapper or driver issues and the other thing PC's are chastised for. But is is untruthful to think that Win 7 can't run pretty cleanly for professional workstation use.

 

[Fandongo]

My take is they are distracted with iOS devices and an iTV perhaps, on top of AAPL just not wanting the imac line to be faster than the Mac pro line.

It has got to be something bigger than iOS distracting them.

I think they're building a space ship.

 

[JesterJJZ]

It has got to be something bigger than iOS distracting them.

I think they're building a space ship.

You've seen the plans for the new campus haven't you?

 

[Fandongo]

You've seen the plans for the new campus haven't you?

I have!

All I could think was Moooonies.

 

[calaverasgrande]

What I think is actually rather awkward is that the Mac Pro market isn't professional enough. Thunderbolt isn't so much an important enterprise product at the moment, so integrating it into what is essentially a workstation/server line has got to be a fairly low priority for Intel, but a high one for Apple. That makes for awkward timing.

actually what is really awkward is that Apple's only display does not really work with the "flagship" line of desktops. I'm sure the TB will fail over to displayport gracefullly, but none of the ports on that $1000 monitor will work in that scenario. Which is why our new $10,000 mac pros are fitted with HP monitors.
As far as TB in the enterprise. We are going with fiber instead. We are installing a Rorke data drive array with optical connections to each Mac Pro. I am not sure that TB can be used in a similar high availability/parallel fashion.

 

[Lance-AR]

The thunderbolt display will not work on a Mac Pro at all. Mini display port monitors work at the end of a Thunderbolt chain but a Thunderbolt monitor will not work off a mini display port.

I now have a small collection of Thunderbolt devices with no Pro to power them.

 

[techblast]

Mac Pro Update? Ha Ha Ha Ha

Apple was the "Apple of my eye" back in 2008 when I finally could not stomach Microsoft and the PC any longer. I really felt I had made the right decision.

4 years later I am back to PC. In fact 2 self built $2500 machines. I needed graphic ability, Adobe Suite/ 64 bit software, I needed USB 3.0, SATA 6 and Solid State. I needed SPEED. My PC's absolutely destroy slow apple machines and for a lot less money.

I waited and waited for that fat arse company called Apple to show up with updated MacPro's, but too much success with consumer electronics, and now I am divested of Apple computers.

PS. Next phone will NOT be an iPhone. That piece of crap won't even ring when a call comes in. Keeps resetting the ringer to "0." Even with stock at $500+ per fat arse share, Apple can't make an iPhone ring! They have known about the bug for at least a year and nada.

Sorry Apple, but life happens too fast to hang around for obsolete and overpriced computers from an over valued company.

Just to let you all know. Apple turned me away as a consumer. I was a willing switch over buyer, but Apple was not willing to be a leader and my business could not wait.

I won't be back.

 

[bearcatrp]

But then you have an ugly HP with HP bloatware all over it.

Microsoft cracked the whip on OEM's for Win8. Basically to quit installing all the bloated BS on new systems coming out. Guess we will see if they actually do it when they start shipping. Better to order a pc with no OS, then purchase a OEM copy of Win7 from newegg for current systems. No bloat ware.

 

[calaverasgrande]

Microsoft cracked the whip on OEM's for Win8. Basically to quit installing all the bloated BS on new systems coming out. Guess we will see if they actually do it when they start shipping. Better to order a pc with no OS, then purchase a OEM copy of Win7 from newegg for current systems. No bloat ware.

It is fairly difficult to order an HP or Dell with no OS.