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ct2k7

macrumors G3
Aug 29, 2008
8,382
3,439
London
Geez, the biggest trial in the tech industry, times 2, in the last 20 years and I need to actually dig up "case numbers". Just read up on it here :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case

The complaints ranged from vendors like Novell, Caldera, Netscape, Corel...

Either you lived under a rock in the 90s or you're very young and never were aware of how bad Microsoft has been to the tech industry in general.

Your memory. Late 90s.

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Except NOW they can choose to have that.

And they certainly are.

I was born in the early 90s. I don't think I remember the late 90s either.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Kia? ... they are the "Windows" of the motor world in safety.

of the 15 SUVs with Highest Rates of Driver Death: ... 3 are made by Kia ... none are made by Toyota

http://abcnews.go.com/US/15-dangerous-safest-suvs/story?id=13805473

You really should read that article and look at the car list.

Interesting 15 SUVs with the HIghest rates of death.
Nissan 350Z 2-door
Chevrolet Cobalt
Chevrolet Malibu Classic
Nissan Versa


I do not know about you but I sure as hell did not know that the 350z was an SUV or those other cars on the list.
Btw the Kia Spectra was listed twice on the list.

I figured I might want to point out how screwed up that article was. In the 15 safest SUV their are multiple cars listed as well.
 
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AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
They did. And in return consumers got SHAFTED with Wintel. And MS got their behinds sued - like a boss. LOL

Steve Jobs described the situation perfectly: for the most part, MS has earned their success . . . by foisting third-rate products and services on consumers.

Thankfully, those Wintel days are coming to a close, and right quick.

In your opinion, is this the same thing that is going on now with Apple? They are suing and getting sued right and left? Could you please provide a reliable source to show that Microsoft and Intel are on their way out? Otherwise it is just biased speculation. Thanks. And Microsoft Azure must be a great product since Apple is using it, wouldn't you say?
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
In your opinion, is this the same thing that is going on now with Apple? They are suing and getting sued right and left?

Patents. Dispute between companies. Happens every day, between a lot of tech industry players, and probably even more outside of tech, and not just over patents.

vs. this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his deposition.[2] He argued over the definitions of words such as "compete", "concerned", "ask", and "we".[3] BusinessWeek reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the presiding judge had to chuckle.

Worse, many of the technology chief's denials and pleas of ignorance have been directly refuted by prosecutors with snippets of E-mail Gates both sent and received."[4] Intel Vice-President Steven McGeady, called as a witness, quoted Paul Maritz, a senior Microsoft vice president as having stated an intention to "extinguish" and "smother" rival Netscape Communications Corporation and to "cut off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of Netscape's flagship product for free. The Microsoft executive denied the allegations.[5]

A number of videotapes were submitted as evidence by Microsoft during the trial, including one that demonstrated that removing Internet Explorer from Microsoft Windows caused slowdowns and malfunctions in Windows.

In the videotaped demonstration of what Microsoft vice president James Allchin's stated to be a seamless segment filmed on one PC, the plaintiff noticed that some icons mysteriously disappear and reappear on the PC's desktop, suggesting that the effects might have been falsified.[6] Allchin admitted that the blame for the tape problems lay with some of his staff "They ended up filming it -- grabbing the wrong screen shot," he said of the incident.

Later, Allchin re-ran the demonstration and provided a new videotape, but in so doing Microsoft dropped the claim that Windows is slowed down when Internet Explorer is removed. Mark Murray, a Microsoft spokesperson, berated the government attorneys for "nitpicking on issues like video production."[7] Microsoft submitted a second inaccurate videotape into evidence later the same month as the first. The issue in question was how easy or hard it was for America Online users to download and install Netscape Navigator onto a Windows PC. Microsoft's videotape showed the process as being quick and easy, resulting in the Netscape icon appearing on the user's desktop.

The government produced its own videotape of the same process, revealing that Microsoft's videotape had conveniently removed a long and complex part of the procedure and that the Netscape icon was not placed on the desktop, requiring a user to search for it. Brad Chase, a Microsoft vice president, verified the government's tape and conceded that Microsoft's own tape was falsified.
[8]

Apple is not a convicted monopoly abuser.

Microsoft Azure must be a great product since Apple is using it, wouldn't you say?

It's a back-end service. Something MS might be better off sticking to. One of the few things they make that doesn't provoke laughter and embarrassment.
 
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AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
Patents. Dispute between companies. Happens every day, between a lot of tech industry players, and probably even more outside of tech, and not just over patents.

vs. this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his deposition.[2] He argued over the definitions of words such as "compete", "concerned", "ask", and "we".[3] BusinessWeek reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the presiding judge had to chuckle.

Worse, many of the technology chief's denials and pleas of ignorance have been directly refuted by prosecutors with snippets of E-mail Gates both sent and received."[4] Intel Vice-President Steven McGeady, called as a witness, quoted Paul Maritz, a senior Microsoft vice president as having stated an intention to "extinguish" and "smother" rival Netscape Communications Corporation and to "cut off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of Netscape's flagship product for free. The Microsoft executive denied the allegations.[5]

A number of videotapes were submitted as evidence by Microsoft during the trial, including one that demonstrated that removing Internet Explorer from Microsoft Windows caused slowdowns and malfunctions in Windows.

In the videotaped demonstration of what Microsoft vice president James Allchin's stated to be a seamless segment filmed on one PC, the plaintiff noticed that some icons mysteriously disappear and reappear on the PC's desktop, suggesting that the effects might have been falsified.[6] Allchin admitted that the blame for the tape problems lay with some of his staff "They ended up filming it -- grabbing the wrong screen shot," he said of the incident.

Later, Allchin re-ran the demonstration and provided a new videotape, but in so doing Microsoft dropped the claim that Windows is slowed down when Internet Explorer is removed. Mark Murray, a Microsoft spokesperson, berated the government attorneys for "nitpicking on issues like video production."[7] Microsoft submitted a second inaccurate videotape into evidence later the same month as the first. The issue in question was how easy or hard it was for America Online users to download and install Netscape Navigator onto a Windows PC. Microsoft's videotape showed the process as being quick and easy, resulting in the Netscape icon appearing on the user's desktop.

The government produced its own videotape of the same process, revealing that Microsoft's videotape had conveniently removed a long and complex part of the procedure and that the Netscape icon was not placed on the desktop, requiring a user to search for it. Brad Chase, a Microsoft vice president, verified the government's tape and conceded that Microsoft's own tape was falsified.
[8]

Apple is not a convicted monopoly abuser.



It's a back-end service. Something MS might be better off sticking to. One of the few things they make that doesn't provoke laughter and embarrassment.

Time will tell what goes on with Apple and if the government steps in. I won't be surprised to see it happen. And of course that was many years ago so as you like to say, it's really irrelevant to today. And your repeated bashing of everything Windows is comical. And completely untrue. There are hundreds of millions of satisfied Windows users. Why does that bother you? It takes nothing away from Apple. Windows 7 is an outstanding product, just like Office and Azure.
 

GGJstudios

macrumors Westmere
May 16, 2008
44,556
950
What does downloading pirated software have to do with getting viruses?

I've downloaded pirated software in the past and never got a virus?

Well, it depends what you're downloading I guess.
Pirated software isn't a source of viruses, but it is a source for trojans. Just because you may not have been infected by one doesn't mean others haven't. It's been well-documented that pirated software can contain trojans.
 

belvdr

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2005
5,945
1,372

Really? How about: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/consumer-reports-says-lexus-gx-460-is-unsafe/

To the point, I didn't say they weren't safe. There are cheap cars just as safe as a Lexus. Saying Kia is the "windows" of the car world is only an attempt at justifying one's purchase.

Honestly, the analogies of computers to cars is ridiculous. These are all personal computers with the same processors but different operating systems. There's really no correlation, especially with regards to safety.


Time will tell what goes on with Apple and if the government steps in. I won't be surprised to see it happen. And of course that was many years ago so as you like to say, it's really irrelevant to today. And your repeated bashing of everything Windows is comical. And completely untrue. There are hundreds of millions of satisfied Windows users. Why does that bother you? It takes nothing away from Apple. Windows 7 is an outstanding product, just like Office and Azure.

True and I'll take my SQL Server machines any day over the Oracle boxes. :)
 
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Apple OC

macrumors 68040
Oct 14, 2010
3,667
4,328
Hogtown
and my point was ... more people use Windows because of it being cheaper

why buy a luxury car when a cheap one will get you from A to B (even if you have to pull over to defrag ... you still get there)

BTW ... we are talking operating systems ... not computers or cars
 

belvdr

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2005
5,945
1,372
and my point was ... more people use Windows because of it being cheaper

why buy a luxury car when a cheap one will get you from A to B (even if you have to pull over to defrag ... you still get there)

You brought auto safety into the mix, which I'm not sure why. Defrag? I never defrag my machine any more so not sure why you mention that either.

Why do you believe OS X is the luxury car and Windows the cheap car? With Windows 7, I'm not seeing the difference.
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
You brought auto safety into the mix, which I'm not sure why. Defrag? I never defrag my machine any more so not sure why you mention that either.

Why do you believe OS X is the luxury car and Windows the cheap car? With Windows 7, I'm not seeing the difference.

Because there is no difference. Windows 7 is every bit as good as OSX.
 

Apple OC

macrumors 68040
Oct 14, 2010
3,667
4,328
Hogtown
You brought auto safety into the mix, which I'm not sure why. Defrag? I never defrag my machine any more so not sure why you mention that either.

Why do you believe OS X is the luxury car and Windows the cheap car? With Windows 7, I'm not seeing the difference.

I often use Windows 7 at work ... guess you don't see what I see ... one of the fixes I tell people at work on a Windows laptop is ... remove your battery then reboot :apple:

with my Mac ... I don't even turn it off ... for months
 

Jb07

macrumors 6502
Oct 31, 2011
433
1
Dallas
It is. Just not the way you think. Macs set the standard in consumer tech.

Are you completely incapable of liking anything that isn’t made by Apple?
Are you mad that Bill Gates became a billionaire by creating a software that billions of people around the world use and like?
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
I often use Windows 7 at work ... guess you don't see what I see ... one of the fixes I tell people at work on a Windows laptop is ... remove your battery then reboot :apple:

with my Mac ... I don't even turn it off ... for months

A friend of mines 2011 MBP running Lion has frozen on three occasions in the past two and had to rebooted. So using your logic, Macs are inferior.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
I often use Windows 7 at work ... guess you don't see what I see ... one of the fixes I tell people at work on a Windows laptop is ... remove your battery then reboot :apple:

with my Mac ... I don't even turn it off ... for months

You know the fact that you are telling them to do that makes me question you computer repair skills completely right there. You should never have to remove a battery as holding down the power button for 5 seconds forces the computer to turn off. The OS has zero say in that part of the control as it is completely controlled from the MOBO. It has been that way for well over 10 years now.

As for defragging from one of your comment earilier that is something that happens no matter the OS. It depends how the OS handles. Windoes defaults to run it once a week but the gain are pretty little in a more modern OS.
OSX does it as well.
 

Apple OC

macrumors 68040
Oct 14, 2010
3,667
4,328
Hogtown
A friend of mines 2011 MBP running Lion has frozen on three occasions in the past two and had to rebooted. So using your logic, Macs are inferior.

Sorry about that dude's issues ... I don't run Lion ... Snow Leopard does what I need done.

Back on topic ... as I said ... Windows is popular because most people go cheap

You know the fact that you are telling them to do that makes me question you computer repair skills completely right there. You should never have to remove a battery as holding down the power button for 5 seconds forces the computer to turn off.

I don't repair computers ... no time for that ... hence I use a Mac ... the remove battery fix is because people whine that their Windows 7 laptops won't turn on :apple:
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
Are you completely incapable of liking anything that isn’t made by Apple?

It's tough. The also-rans aren't making it easy.
Are you mad that Bill Gates became a billionaire by creating a software that billions of people around the world use and like?

I'm actually thrilled by it. It's the whole reason I moved to Apple in the first place.
 

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
Sorry about that dude's issues ... I don't run Lion ... Snow Leopard does what I need done.

Back on topic ... as I said ... Windows is popular because most people go cheap

Believe it or not, there are computers running Windows that cost more than Macs. :eek:

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It's tough. The also-rans aren't making it easy.


I'm actually thrilled by it. It's the whole reason I moved to Apple in the first place.

So if Apple gets too popular you'll switch to something else?
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
Today is saturday. I started working at around 7:30 a.m. I'll be working till around 3-4 p.m. if everything goes smoothly. I will not be touching a Windows box at all.

Just a quick note to say I still haven't touched a Windows box and am still working, it's close to 10 p.m. now. I have only 6 servers to patch. Luckily, I have only 1 left, the problem is that the root VG managed to corrupt on it after its first reboot (the "let's see if it still reboots" reboot, didn't even actually start working on the thing).

So if anyone is game to tell me that IT doesn't want Macs because they're afraid replacing Windows is going to make them redundant, I will gladly give them access to my infrastructure for a couple of hours so they can show me how to properly repair an EFI partition table, rebuild LVM boot information off a root VG, make sure the rootconf file is not corrupt and rebuild the kernel io tables.

For my part, I gave up 30 minutes ago and am now restoring the server from my safety net backup I took last night, hoping that whatever broke it wasn't there at that time.
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
Believe it or not, there are computers running Windows that cost more than Macs. :eek:

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So if Apple gets too popular you'll switch to something else?

Why? We finally have the best platform in consumer tech today, that's also becoming very popular - iconic, in fact.

This is an ideal situation.
 
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