Will Android L keep you on Android?

[SpoonCody]

Honestly, I find that third party apps can do certain features better than what comes from stock Android.

Of course, it doesn't hurt for Google to implement features into stock Android, but those complaining that certain features aren't available in stock Android like there's no solution are just spreading FUD.

Lock screen notifications, pop up notifications, etc., there are plenty of options (Notifier Pro is brilliant) in the Play Store that can be made default and can deliver the same themes. These third party apps often update to the latest themes (ie. Ice Cream Sandwich, KitKat theme, etc.) so everything matches.

To ignore one of the biggest features of Android -- the ability to set third party apps/functions as default -- is to really misunderstand how Android works.

Again, it's terrific that Android L is bringing things like pop-up and lock screen notifications, but people need to stop pretending this feature and experience somehow didn't exist prior on Android devices. It's not hard to install third party apps (do you only use Apple's stock apps?) that co-exist and fit perfectly into Android.

 

[jrswizzle]

Honestly, I find that third party apps can do certain features better than what comes from stock Android.

Of course, it doesn't hurt for Google to implement features into stock Android, but those complaining that certain features aren't available in stock Android like there's no solution are just spreading FUD.

Lock screen notifications, pop up notifications, etc., there are plenty of options (Notifier Pro is brilliant) in the Play Store that can be made default and can deliver the same themes. These third party apps often update to the latest themes (ie. Ice Cream Sandwich, KitKat theme, etc.) so everything matches.

To ignore one of the biggest features of Android -- the ability to set third party apps/functions as default -- is to really misunderstand how Android works.

Again, it's terrific that Android L is bringing things like pop-up and lock screen notifications, but people need to stop pretending this feature and experience somehow didn't exist prior on Android devices. It's not hard to install third party apps (do you only use Apple's stock apps?) that co-exist and fit perfectly into Android.

Saying a native solution is better than third party solutions doesn't mean we're pretending those third party options don't exist.

Point is, as a system (the whole) iOS simply offers far better functionality natively than Android does. Sure I could go try out various 3rd party options - but what works for you may not work for me, so I'd be stuck searching through various options trying to find something that gives me the functionality I already get on iOS out of the box.

Its true there's something to be said for customization...but there's also something to be said for simplicity. I think those who enter into these debates from the Android side simply ignore the portion of us who simply like iOS better because its easier. At some point tweaking and customizing go from a way to personalize your device to an annoying time waster because nothing works quite the way you'd like.

Apple dictating defaults isn't really a negative when the defaults are so good.

 

[SpoonCody]

Saying a native solution is better than third party solutions doesn't mean we're pretending those third party options don't exist.

Point is, as a system (the whole) iOS simply offers far better functionality natively than Android does. Sure I could go try out various 3rd party options - but what works for you may not work for me, so I'd be stuck searching through various options trying to find something that gives me the functionality I already get on iOS out of the box.

Its true there's something to be said for customization...but there's also something to be said for simplicity. I think those who enter into these debates from the Android side simply ignore the portion of us who simply like iOS better because its easier. At some point tweaking and customizing go from a way to personalize your device to an annoying time waster because nothing works quite the way you'd like.

Apple dictating defaults isn't really a negative when the defaults are so good.

I guess I see it differently. It's interesting that your argument against Android's third party offerings is fear that people will have differing individual tastes when trying to find the right app, yet when talking about iOS that only offers one option (ie. doesn't allow for any individuality whatsoever -- other than third party keyboards eventually), it's lauded. Bizarre.

The way Apple does things happen to work for you, which is great, but what about other people who want to try different things? Want to appeal to their individual tastes, as you so put it? What then? Might people be so accepting of Apple's one and only way of doing things because they have no choice in it? Why are people getting excited about third party keyboards when Apple does so many things right on their own? To me, that's as close to Apple admitting their keyboard is weak as we'll ever get. Might people get excited, too, if Apple suddenly announced that they're also allowing third party browsers, third party mail, third party map/navigation options? If I had to bet, I'd bet people would adore Apple for finally allowing this. Yet, on Android, it troubles you.

How is customization a time waster when it's up to you how you spend your time? Again, do you only use Apple's stock apps? Do you never install third party apps from the App Store to use? Yelp, maybe? Apps that do things better than how Apple does it? Your iPhone is 100% stock apps only? Doubtful.

Also, I think that at the end of the day, Android is adding missing competitor's features faster than iOS is adding missing competitor's features. I appreciate Apple's simplicity, but the flexibility of Android's ability to customize cannot be matched. Apple's simplicity is sometimes to the detriment of individuality. They've introduced Control Center. Terrific. A feature I love on my 5C. Yet, I can't pick and choose what toggles I want. (Just an example: On my Moto X, I've just discovered I can toggle off my lock screen when I don't need it. This is amazing. I don't have to punch in my pin code every single time.)

It's not like it's not simple to install an app from the Play Store to get what you want.

I'm not knocking you for preferring Apple's simple approach. You rock whatever device you want. But to knock Android for not having something baked into stock is really ignore how well made third party apps are. Like I said, I find third party apps can actually do things better than stock. And if that option were available for iOS, I betcha users/developers would have better options than stock too. The point is, they'd have options. Only one platform truly offers options.

 

[jrswizzle]

I guess I see it differently. It's interesting that your argument against Android's third party offerings is fear that people have individual tastes, yet when talking about iOS that only offers one option (ie. doesn't allow for any individuality whatsoever -- other than third party keyboards at last), it's lauded.

A bit more general that what I was saying. I'm not talking about individuality per se. Just pointing out that finding a third party option that works isn't always as simple as people make it out to be.

The way Apple does things happen to work for you, which is great, but what about other people who want to try different things? Want to appeal to their individual tastes, as you so put it? What then? Might people be so accepting of Apple's one and only way of doing things because they have no choice in it? Why are people getting excited about third party keyboards when Apple does so many things right on their own? To me, that's as close to Apple admitting their keyboard is weak as we'll ever get.

Of course, I purchased an iPhone and prefer it because it works for me. If I didn't like the way things were done on it I would switch. As with anything I'm not trying to project my preferences on anyone else. I'm simply stating my use case and my arguments for my preferences. Perhaps some share the same thoughts, maybe not.

Apple does a lot of things right - I never said they do EVERYTHING right. I'm one of those people that is excited for 3rd party keyboards, not because the iOS keyboard is terrible but because I really like the swype typing ability. Of course Google took that and has since incorporated it into it's stock keyboard. Which is great for me, because I like that feature - so I have no reason to search for a keyboard that works for me. That's what I get with most features on iOS.

How is customization a time waster when it's up to you how you spend your time? Again, do you only use Apple's stock apps? Do you never install third party apps from the App Store to use? Yelp, maybe? Apps that do things better than how Apple does it? Your iPhone is 100% stock apps only? Doubtful.

Because I could spend loads of time trying to find various third party apps that do things the way I want, but I may or may not find them. I'm spending all this time supplementing poor stock options when all it would take is Google putting a little more into the stock offerings. There's obviously importance here or Android L wouldn't be bringing lock screen notifications and other features along.

Perhaps I simply got used to the way things were done on iOS so I don't feel like I need to look for any alternatives. Again, it simply works best for me and my use case. My iPhone isn't only stock apps, but I also don't have 5 emails apps and 3 keyboards etc.....I have Facebook, American Airlines etc - third party apps that serve a specific purpose that I need. I didn't have to try a bunch of different Facebook apps....there's ONE official one.

At the end of the day, Android is adding missing competitor's features faster than iOS is adding missing competitor's features. I appreciate Apple's simplicity, but the flexibility of Android's ability to customize cannot be matched. Apple's simplicity is sometimes to the detriment of individuality. They've introduced Control Center. Terrific. A feature I love on my 5C. Yet, I can't pick and choose what toggles I want. (Just an example: On my Moto X, I've just discovered I can toggle off my lock screen when I don't need it. This is amazing. I don't have to punch in my pin code every single time.)

I don't agree. iOS 8 has pretty much hit every desired feature I have and have seen from others save for the ability to set defaults and "theme" the device. Where is a decent stock backup solution? Oh, I'm sure you'll say "there are plenty of third party options out there".....they all suck in comparison to iCloud backups. Google could easily do something similar with Google Drive. Rumors are its coming in Android L. I sure as heck hope so.

I haven't found the need for additional toggles in control center. Speaking to your example, TouchID makes the passcode obsolete and unnecessary. And I don't have to bother toggling something on and off.

Some want to customize, others want simplicity. Its a choice and preference. No one better way or right way.

It's not like it's not simple to install an app from the Play Store to get what you want.

Again, perhaps its simple to find AN app that does what you need. But the RIGHT app is not always so easy to find (I went through roughly 4 email apps before settling for the one I use now).

I'm not knocking you for preferring Apple's simple approach. You rock whatever device you want. But to knock Android for not having something baked into stock is really ignore how well made third party apps are. Like I said, I find third party apps can actually do things better than stock. And if that option were available for iOS, I betcha users/developers would have better options than stock too. The point is, they'd have options. Only one platform truly offers options.

That's fine if YOU find it that way. I don't. I don't think any of the third party lock screen notification options out there are as good as what I have in iOS (a native solution). I'm excited Android L will be offering this functionality and as I've been testing it on my Nexus 5, I've enjoyed it - though at this point it doesn't quite feel finished.

I don't think its really fair to say "well anything Android doesn't do can be found in a third party app". That argument NEVER flies when its made for iOS, so I'm not going to let it fly here. I like my devices as stock as possible and I don't want to have to sort through a bunch of apps to find something that works. Give me a nice stock experience and let those who want to tinker, tinker.

If Android beefed up the stock experience, it would benefit them greatly. Which is why they are focused heavily on doing so with Android L.

I'm not "bashing" anything. Simply sharing my preferences.

 

[SpoonCody]

EDITED to take the responses out of the quote:

A bit more general that what I was saying. I'm not talking about individuality per se. Just pointing out that finding a third party option that works isn't always as simple as people make it out to be.

: shrug : I think it's pretty simple. Even finding the "right" one is quite simple. It's not like it's a blind search in the dark. There are reviews, forums, etc. How is finding the right app from the Play Store any more difficult/different than finding the right app from the App Store...? If you in particular have a hard time with it, sorry, but so be it. Don't knock the freedom of choice as if it's some detriment or difficulty or like it's scary to have options.

Of course, I purchased an iPhone and prefer it because it works for me. If I didn't like the way things were done on it I would switch. As with anything I'm not trying to project my preferences on anyone else. I'm simply stating my use case and my arguments for my preferences. Perhaps some share the same thoughts, maybe not.

My point is, there is only one platform that truly addresses individual preference. Something you hold so dear, but don't recognize is just as important for someone else with a different preference who cannot pursue his style, choice, options because iOS doesn't allow it. There's nothing to be argued here, I think. iOS simply doesn't allow preferences but one.

Apple does a lot of things right - I never said they do EVERYTHING right. I'm one of those people that is excited for 3rd party keyboards, not because the iOS keyboard is terrible but because I really like the swype typing ability. Of course Google took that and has since incorporated it into it's stock keyboard. Which is great for me, because I like that feature - so I have no reason to search for a keyboard that works for me. That's what I get with most features on iOS.

As I said above, might people be excited if Apple were to allow for third party options with other things? Might people get excited, too, if Apple suddenly announced that they're also allowing third party browsers, third party mail, third party map/navigation options? I'd bet people would adore Apple for finally allowing this. Yet, on Android, it troubles or stresses you out. Interesting.

Because I could spend loads of time trying to find various third party apps that do things the way I want, but I may or may not find them. I'm spending all this time supplementing poor stock options when all it would take is Google putting a little more into the stock offerings. There's obviously importance here or Android L wouldn't be bringing lock screen notifications and other features along.

I'm all for Google improving/adding features to stock. Nothing wrong with that at all. Only more options for people. Only more ability to address individuality and personal preference. I wish Apple would do the same.

Perhaps I simply got used to the way things were done on iOS so I don't feel like I need to look for any alternatives. Again, it simply works best for me and my use case. My iPhone isn't only stock apps, but I also don't have 5 emails apps and 3 keyboards etc.....I have Facebook, American Airlines etc - third party apps that serve a specific purpose that I need. I didn't have to try a bunch of different Facebook apps....there's ONE official one.

There's only one FB app on Android, too. And if someone wants to use 1 email or 1 keyboard app, they're free to choose which they like better. If they want to have 5 email apps and 3 keyboard apps, they're free to do that too. Options don't scare everyone like they scare you. Again, I wish Apple would allow this. If they do/did, I bet you and other iOS users would somehow find a way to get over the stress.

I don't agree. iOS 8 has pretty much hit every desired feature I have and have seen from others save for the ability to set defaults and "theme" the device. Where is a decent stock backup solution? Oh, I'm sure you'll say "there are plenty of third party options out there".....they all suck in comparison to iCloud backups. Google could easily do something similar with Google Drive. Rumors are its coming in Android L. I sure as heck hope so.

Me too.

I haven't found the need for additional toggles in control center. Speaking to your example, TouchID makes the passcode obsolete and unnecessary. And I don't have to bother toggling something on and off.

Some want to customize, others want simplicity. Its a choice and preference. No one better way or right way.

What if someone doesn't want to use touch ID? Again, you're all for preferences, right? There is a better/right way. The way each individual wants it.

Again, perhaps its simple to find AN app that does what you need. But the RIGHT app is not always so easy to find (I went through roughly 4 email apps before settling for the one I use now).

Aren't you glad you can? So what if someone finds iOS Mail unsatisfying? Bummer for them. So much for their preferences.

That's fine if YOU find it that way. I don't. I don't think any of the third party lock screen notification options out there are as good as what I have in iOS (a native solution). I'm excited Android L will be offering this functionality and as I've been testing it on my Nexus 5, I've enjoyed it - though at this point it doesn't quite feel finished.

I agree. Which is why I like that I have the option to have a third party app that does it better be set as default. I like Notifier Pro in particular. Choice. Really not that scary or stressful.

I don't think its really fair to say "well anything Android doesn't do can be found in a third party app". That argument NEVER flies when its made for iOS, so I'm not going to let it fly here. I like my devices as stock as possible and I don't want to have to sort through a bunch of apps to find something that works.

Um, sorry, but iOS doesn't get away with this because you can't set things as default. That's the entire point of my original post above. That features alone makes Android vastly more flexible. It's one of the biggest deals with Android, and is precisely why Android can get away with saying that there are third party app solutions. There are. They are solutions that integrate and co-exist perfectly and brilliantly and even match the theme of your particular Android OS well (Ice Cream Sandwich, or Kit Kat themes).

Give me a nice stock experience and let those who want to tinker, tinker.

Agreed. And how is Apple allowing those that want to tinker tinker? Not much room there, unfortunately.

If Android beefed up the stock experience, it would benefit them greatly. Which is why they are focused heavily on doing so with Android L.

More power to Android for beefing up the stock experience. They'll have a better stock experience and still have a plethora of third party apps they can add/supplement that experience if they want. It's lovely.




TL;DR: I have a wild suspicion that if Apple today suddenly announced third party apps can be set default OS-wide for any feature, you'd somehow get over the "stress" to "time wasting" factor of choice.

 

[jrswizzle]

Responses in bold:




TL;DR: I have a wild suspicion that if Apple today suddenly announced third party apps can be set default OS-wide for any feature, you'd somehow get over the "stress" to "time wasting" factor of choice.

OK. You're putting words in my mouth.

I don't care what anyone does. I like iOS better than Android. That's really the end of it for me. I have my reasons, but it seems attempting to post them gets them twisted all which way.

People are free to choose whatever platform they want. Doesn't matter what I think.

 

[Lloydbm41]

After ios8 comes out there is only one thing left that I would like to see... Ability to put icons where you want on the screen (or lack of icons on a screen if so desired). I don't want to be stuck in a grid of icons forever. This isn't a difficult request for Apple, it doesn't violate sandboxing or allow people to alter the OS in any way. Just let me put stuff where I want. That is it.

 

[SpoonCody]

OK. You're putting words in my mouth.

I don't care what anyone does. I like iOS better than Android. That's really the end of it for me. I have my reasons, but it seems attempting to post them gets them twisted all which way.

People are free to choose whatever platform they want. Doesn't matter what I think.

My responses were in bold in your quoted post, in case you missed the specifics. EDIT: I actually edited the post to put my responses outside of your quote, if that makes it any easier to read.

I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth. It was just a prediction/suspicion I had regarding how you somehow laud Apple (rightfully so) for finally allowing third party keyboards, but at the same time, if an operating system allows for third party apps on a wider scale, then it's somehow a "time waster" or whatever else you took issue with.

I just suspect you wouldn't feel that way if Apple did the same thing with iOS. Hopefully one day they will -- will you warn people in the same way about the troubles of having to find different default apps if they prefer to like you do for Android?

Hm!

 

[Black Magic]

My responses were in bold in your quoted post, in case you missed the specifics. EDIT: I actually edited the post to put my responses outside of your quote, if that makes it any easier to read.

I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth. It was just a prediction/suspicion I had regarding how you somehow laud Apple (rightfully so) for finally allowing third party keyboards, but at the same time, if an operating system allows for third party apps on a wider scale, then it's somehow a "time waster" or whatever else you took issue with.

I just suspect you wouldn't feel that way if Apple did the same thing with iOS. Hopefully one day they will -- will you warn people in the same way about the troubles of having to find different default apps if they prefer to like you do for Android?

Hm!

I think you are seriously missing JRSWIZZLE's point. Again, what he is stating is that the default options/apps on iOS are so good, HE doesn't feel the need to search for a third party solution in the App Store. Out the box, great experience and ready to go. I think many others feel that way as well. Android on the other hand is known for half assing things or giving up on a project more times than not, so you more likely will be looking for a third party solution to fill the gap. Google apparently recognized this and Android L is an attempt to get things unified and better.

Is he saying Android is horrible? No. It's just common sense to state that most folks would prefer buying a finished product that's complete out the box versus needing additional after market add-ons to get it complete.

Oh and regarding keyboards, I agree with him completely as well. swype is a nice feature that Android has built into the stock keyboard. +1 for Google on this. If Apple built swype into it's default keyboard like Windows Phone 8.1 just did, I wouldn't even bother with downloading new keyboards. Why? Because out the box it does everything you want day one!

 

[jrswizzle]

My responses were in bold in your quoted post, in case you missed the specifics. EDIT: I actually edited the post to put my responses outside of your quote, if that makes it any easier to read.

Nope I read it all - all the times where you talk about "my precious individuality" and how you make the assumption that I'll change my tune if Apple decided to allow 3rd party defaults.

None of which I've said of course.

[/QUOTE]I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth. It was just a prediction/suspicion I had regarding how you somehow laud Apple (rightfully so) for finally allowing third party keyboards, but at the same time, if an operating system allows for third party apps on a wider scale, then it's somehow a "time waster" or whatever else you took issue with.[/QUOTE]

Right here you've done it. I'm not lauding Apple for allowing 3rd party keyboards. I'm happy about the fact that I'll be able to using the swipe typing feature. However they make that happen is of no consequence to me. I don't like Chrome, I don't need Google Maps, and I think iOS Mail is superior to any mail app I've tried on Android (I don't use gmail primarily). 3rd party defaults mean nothing to me because Apple's stock apps work great and do everything I need them to do very simply.

I pointed out one of the few areas where I preferred Android's stock option (the Google keyboard allows for swipe typing) and that I was happy I'd be able to utilize that feature in iOS 8. Somehow that means I'm all for Apple defaults but not for Androids?

I just suspect you wouldn't feel that way if Apple did the same thing with iOS. Hopefully one day they will -- will you warn people in the same way about the troubles of having to find different default apps if they prefer to like you do for Android?

Hm!

Nope, you're wrong. This is what I meant by putting words in my mouth. You assume whatever you want, but realize that you only look like an ass doing so.

Here's the cliffnotes version of my point: iOS works perfectly for me. I have very few complaints, all of which are being addressed in iOS 8. I have no desire to mess with defaults or have multiple apps for the same function. I download the apps that correspond with the 3rd party services I use (99% of which are essentially 1st party apps for the company that makes them) and that's that. My backups are set automatically, my emails are transferred automatically, my notes, pictures, music, app settings, data etc are all taken from my old phone and put on my new phone within 10 minutes of acquiring the new device. There is no searching the internet for the best mail app because the stock one sucks, or trying out a variety of browsers to see which feature set I like best. iOS lacks nothing in my opinion. Maybe its my familiarity, most likely its simply my use case.

There are no ulterior motives other than my bent toward stock devices and minimal set up. I'm looking forward to Android beefing up their stock OS. That sentence in no way means I HATE Android's options or am bashing them for it. YOU make that conclusion, not me.

So continue believing what you will. I eagerly await the iPhone 6, iOS 8 AND Android L.

----------

I think you are seriously missing JRSWIZZLE's point. Again, what he is stating is that the default options/apps on iOS are so good, HE doesn't feel the need to search for a third party solution in the App Store. Out the box, great experience and ready to go. I think many others feel that way as well. Android on the other hand is known for half assing things or giving up on a project more times than not, so you more likely will be looking for a third party solution to fill the gap. Google apparently recognized this and Android L is an attempt to get things unified and better.

Is he saying Android is horrible? No. It's just common sense to state that most folks would prefer buying a finished product that's complete out the box versus needing additional after market add-ons to get it complete.

Oh and regarding keyboards, I agree with him completely as well. swype is a nice feature that Android has built into the stock keyboard. +1 for Google on this. If Apple built swype into it's default keyboard like Windows Phone 8.1 just did, I wouldn't even bother with downloading new keyboards. Why? Because out the box it does everything you want day one!

Exactly - thank you. The bolded I think only proves my point further. GOOGLE ITSELF is beefing up the stock OS experience. If they didn't feel something was lacking, why would they do it?

And you're right on about the keyboards. It has nothing to do with choice. I simply want a specific feature because I used it on an Android and really enjoy it. If it were baked into the Apple keyboard, I wouldn't have any need for a third party keyboard. Honestly, Google felt the same way which is why they baked it into theirs.

 

[SpoonCody]

Nope I read it all - all the times where you talk about "my precious individuality" and how you make the assumption that I'll change my tune if Apple decided to allow 3rd party defaults.

None of which I've said of course.

I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth. It was just a prediction/suspicion I had regarding how you somehow laud Apple (rightfully so) for finally allowing third party keyboards, but at the same time, if an operating system allows for third party apps on a wider scale, then it's somehow a "time waster" or whatever else you took issue with.

Right here you've done it. I'm not lauding Apple for allowing 3rd party keyboards. I'm happy about the fact that I'll be able to using the swipe typing feature. However they make that happen is of no consequence to me. I don't like Chrome, I don't need Google Maps, and I think iOS Mail is superior to any mail app I've tried on Android (I don't use gmail primarily). 3rd party defaults mean nothing to me because Apple's stock apps work great and do everything I need them to do very simply.

I pointed out one of the few areas where I preferred Android's stock option (the Google keyboard allows for swipe typing) and that I was happy I'd be able to utilize that feature in iOS 8. Somehow that means I'm all for Apple defaults but not for Androids?



Nope, you're wrong. This is what I meant by putting words in my mouth. You assume whatever you want, but realize that you only look like an ass doing so.

Here's the cliffnotes version of my point: iOS works perfectly for me. I have very few complaints, all of which are being addressed in iOS 8. I have no desire to mess with defaults or have multiple apps for the same function. I download the apps that correspond with the 3rd party services I use (99% of which are essentially 1st party apps for the company that makes them) and that's that. My backups are set automatically, my emails are transferred automatically, my notes, pictures, music, app settings, data etc are all taken from my old phone and put on my new phone within 10 minutes of acquiring the new device. There is no searching the internet for the best mail app because the stock one sucks, or trying out a variety of browsers to see which feature set I like best. iOS lacks nothing in my opinion. Maybe its my familiarity, most likely its simply my use case.

There are no ulterior motives other than my bent toward stock devices and minimal set up. I'm looking forward to Android beefing up their stock OS. That sentence in no way means I HATE Android's options or am bashing them for it. YOU make that conclusion, not me.

So continue believing what you will. I eagerly await the iPhone 6, iOS 8 AND Android L.

----------



Exactly - thank you. The bolded I think only proves my point further. GOOGLE ITSELF is beefing up the stock OS experience. If they didn't feel something was lacking, why would they do it?

And you're right on about the keyboards. It has nothing to do with choice. I simply want a specific feature because I used it on an Android and really enjoy it. If it were baked into the Apple keyboard, I wouldn't have any need for a third party keyboard. Honestly, Google felt the same way which is why they baked it into theirs.

Then my prediction and suspicion were off. I do wonder if you would call it a "time waster" when people search for third party keybaord apps on iOS... Anyway, so be it. My apologies.

Looking forward to all OS-es being beefed up as well.

 

[jrswizzle]

Then my prediction and suspicion were off. I do wonder if you would call it a "time waster" when people search for third party keybaord apps on iOS... Anyway, so be it. My apologies.

Looking forward to all OS-es being beefed up as well.

It may or may not be a time waster for some depending on their preferences. Again, I'm not attempting to speak for EVERYONE. Only myself - perhaps others share my preferences.

I know exactly what I'm looking for so it'll be a simple download and set, no fiddling with any other keyboards.

Of course, as the other poster mentioned, if Apple just baked in the swipe typing to the stock keyboard I wouldn't even need to download anything.

 

[SpoonCody]

It may or may not be a time waster for some depending on their preferences. Again, I'm not attempting to speak for EVERYONE. Only myself - perhaps others share my preferences.

I know exactly what I'm looking for so it'll be a simple download and set, no fiddling with any other keyboards.

Of course, as the other poster mentioned, if Apple just baked in the swipe typing to the stock keyboard I wouldn't even need to download anything.

Gotcha.

So, basically, the feature to allow third party apps can be a time waster for both Android and iOS 8 users if they have trouble finding the right keyboard. But isn't a time waster if either Android/iOS 8 users find the right keyboard either in the default keyboard or easily in a third party keyboard.

Okay then. I guess I agree with that, but then that's also a pretty obvious thing that doesn't require you to point out. In the context of your conversation, it seemed you were knocking the fact that such a feature exists for Android. Here is your quote that I was responding to:

Its true there's something to be said for customization...but there's also something to be said for simplicity. I think those who enter into these debates from the Android side simply ignore the portion of us who simply like iOS better because its easier. At some point tweaking and customizing go from a way to personalize your device to an annoying time waster because nothing works quite the way you'd like.

You say I'm assuming too much by thinking such a response like that is negative toward Android. Guess that's my mistake then, but I don't know how else I could've read that.

If you're telling me such a feature -- be it on Android or on iOS -- can become a time waster, so be it. iOS has yet to really have this feature, so my natural assumption is that your words are more applicable to Android.

Either way, I don't think such a feature can ever be a time waster, really. It's your own time. You choose what you want to do with it. If you still can't find a proper third party app, then that's not a knock on the feature.

Anyway, time to drop it. Thanks.

 

[Black Magic]

It may or may not be a time waster for some depending on their preferences. Again, I'm not attempting to speak for EVERYONE. Only myself - perhaps others share my preferences.

I know exactly what I'm looking for so it'll be a simple download and set, no fiddling with any other keyboards.

Of course, as the other poster mentioned, if Apple just baked in the swipe typing to the stock keyboard I wouldn't even need to download anything.

Yea, I'm not looking forward to Freemium keyboards with Ads, IAPs, and please rate me pop ups. There is a good chance I will stick with the default keyboard on iOS to avoid the headache that I'm sure will come with 3rd party keyboards.

 

[jrswizzle]

Yea, I'm not looking forward to Freemium keyboards with Ads, IAPs, and please rate me pop ups. There is a good chance I will stick with the default keyboard on iOS to avoid the headache that I'm sure will come with 3rd party keyboards.

I'm hoping Swype will simply cost a buck or two and I can avoid all that. I think that's about what it cost on Android. I'd gladly pay it.

----------

Gotcha.

So, basically, the feature to allow third party apps can be a time waster for both Android and iOS 8 users if they have trouble finding the right keyboard. But isn't a time waster if either Android/iOS 8 users find the right keyboard either in the default keyboard or easily in a third party keyboard.

Okay then. I guess I agree with that, but then that's also a pretty obvious thing that doesn't require you to point out. In the context of your conversation, it seemed you were knocking the fact that such a feature exists for Android. Here is your quote that I was responding to:



You say I'm assuming too much by thinking such a response like that is negative toward Android. Guess that's my mistake then, but I don't know how else I could've read that.

If you're telling me such a feature -- be it on Android or on iOS -- can become a time waster, so be it. iOS has yet to really have this feature, so my natural assumption is that your words are more applicable to Android.

Either way, I don't think such a feature can ever be a time waster, really. It's your own time. You choose what you want to do with it. If you still can't find a proper third party app, then that's not a knock on the feature.

Sure - perhaps my wording was poorly chosen. I've only found it to be somewhat annoying in my experience for some different apps I've looked for. And my statement meant to point out that there is a period in which, if you find the right app, it can be a rewarding experience. But there is the downside that if its difficult to find a good third party offering and the stock option sucks, you end up feeling like you've wasted time when you eventually settle for something that doesn't work quite right.

I'm sure you haven't found EVERYTHING to be perfect with Android. Maybe you have. Maybe you've always found the perfect third party app for everything. I just haven't - perhaps its on me and I shouldn't blame Android for it. I'm not trying to blame anyone for anything - simply stating where a potential negative could exist. And I'm also stating that it would just be better if the stock option was as good as it could possibly be. On iOS I feel like that's the case. On Android, I feel like the stock offerings are somewhat half done (unless they are Google specific apps). Again, Google seems to agree as they move to remedy the situation with Android L.

Maybe its obvious, but it seems like I've been argued with enough that some either don't want to see it or don't see it. The fact is, the presence or absence of 3rd party options is inconsequential to me on iOS because the stock offerings work perfectly for my needs (except for the swipe typing). If Apple opens that up, great for those who want it! But I don't need it so I don't feel the need to state it as a negative. Similarly, if Google's stock offerings were on par with Apple's I'd feel the same way. The problem is, they aren't - that's the point.

Really, for me, the presence of 3rd party options is superfluous and that might be where we're at odds. I'd prefer a stock experience that is as good as it can be, and I honestly think Google can do better. It seems they agree.

 

[SpoonCody]

I'm hoping Swype will simply cost a buck or two and I can avoid all that. I think that's about what it cost on Android. I'd gladly pay it.

----------



Sure - perhaps my wording was poorly chosen. I've only found it to be somewhat annoying in my experience for some different apps I've looked for. And my statement meant to point out that there is a period in which, if you find the right app, it can be a rewarding experience. But there is the downside that if its difficult to find a good third party offering and the stock option sucks, you end up feeling like you've wasted time when you eventually settle for something that doesn't work quite right.

I'm sure you haven't found EVERYTHING to be perfect with Android. Maybe you have. Maybe you've always found the perfect third party app for everything. I just haven't - perhaps its on me and I shouldn't blame Android for it. I'm not trying to blame anyone for anything - simply stating where a potential negative could exist.

Maybe its obvious, but it seems like I've been argued with enough that some either don't want to see it or don't see it.

Fair enough.

I'd say that there is an arguably larger "potential negative" for not allowing third party defaults.

 

[jrswizzle]

Fair enough.

I'd say that there is an arguably larger "potential negative" for not allowing third party defaults.

Sure - if iOS's defaults were, quality-wise, similar to Androids. I'd hate not having ANY alternatives.

Luckily, at least for me, that's not the case and iOS stock apps work very well. Of the three main gripes I had before iOS 8 was announced, 2 are being directly addressed and I have the sneaking suspicion that the third will get taken care of indirectly as well.

Similarly with Android, a few of my main gripes are being addressed in Android L and I'm really excited. Hell, its why I bought another Nexus 5. I had sold my first one and move back to iOS solely, but Android L made me give it another chance.

Now if they could just make the stock email app not horrible.....at least I've already done all my leg work there and found a good third party alternative.

 

[SpoonCody]

Sure - if iOS's defaults were, quality-wise, similar to Androids. I'd hate not having ANY alternatives.

Luckily, at least for me, that's not the case and iOS stock apps work very well. Of the three main gripes I had before iOS 8 was announced, 2 are being directly addressed and I have the sneaking suspicion that the third will get taken care of indirectly as well.

Similarly with Android, a few of my main gripes are being addressed in Android L and I'm really excited. Hell, its why I bought another Nexus 5. I had sold my first one and move back to iOS solely, but Android L made me give it another chance.

Now if they could just make the stock email app not horrible.....at least I've already done all my leg work there and found a good third party alternative.

Nice having that feature, isn't it?

Wouldn't it be nice if iOS offered that to someone who found the iOS Mail app unsatisfying? It can happen on Android. It can happen on iOS. Never mind whether Android or iOS stock apps are good or better or worse -- all that is up to the individual user. The fact that such a feature like allowing for third party defaults exists means it's an out, a solution, an alternative, an option for anyone who might want it. That's the difference between the two.

 

[jrswizzle]

Nice having that feature, isn't it?

Wouldn't it be nice if iOS offered that to someone who found the iOS Mail app unsatisfying? It can happen on Android. It can happen on iOS. Never mind whether Android or iOS stock apps are good or better or worse -- all that is up to the individual user. The fact that such a feature like allowing for third party defaults exists means it's an out, a solution, an alternative, an option for anyone who might want it. That's the difference between the two.

It would. Though the presence of so many options has seemed to be more of an excuse for Google not to have to bother with the stock apps because they'll just get replaced anyways. I think the growing popularity of the Nexus line and the addition of GPE devices has pulled Google into finally taking the vanilla Android experience seriously as a stand alone option.

But like I've now said about a thousand times....

I'm talking about MY preferences. I wouldn't dream of speaking for someone else. If they think iOS mail sucks and want to change it, I'd wonder why they thought it sucked, but I'd definitely see why they'd want 3rd party defaults.

I suppose that's why there are people who use iOS and there are people who use Android. Nice to have options huh?

 

[SpoonCody]

It would. Though the presence of so many options has seemed to be more of an excuse for Google not to have to bother with the stock apps because they'll just get replaced anyways. But like I've now said about a thousand times....

Genuine question: How do you know this?

 

[Black Magic]

Nice having that feature, isn't it?

Wouldn't it be nice if iOS offered that to someone who found the iOS Mail app unsatisfying? It can happen on Android. It can happen on iOS. Never mind whether Android or iOS stock apps are good or better or worse -- all that is up to the individual user. The fact that such a feature like allowing for third party defaults exists means it's an out, a solution, an alternative, an option for anyone who might want it. That's the difference between the two.

Sure having that option wouldn't be a bad thing at all. I think that some of us though prefer having a feature rich, complete product day one versus buying an "almost there but need several tweaks" product. Basically, the CHOICE here is to have a better product out the gates.

Some folks may prefer a shopping experience that includes going home and installing a custom rom, rooting, and buying/installing a few apps to get the experience just right. Others value their time and investments and don't have time for that.

 

[jrswizzle]

Genuine question: How do you know this?

Based on the crappiness of the stock apps and the fact that Android L is revamping the stock experience (standardizing design language, adding certain features).

GPE devices are a relatively new thing and the Nexus program is far more than just a developer phone at this point.

I also think Google wants to build its own ecosystem instead of relying on OEMs and skins. You need a clear, standard, high-quality OS experience to do so.

To me there have always been two Android paths - the stock and the skinned/forked. OEMs have been polishing their various skins for years now, and Google has seemed to make adjustments to stock without ever really addressing it as if it were a viable option. Vanilla Android was always for "Developers" or "techies".

I think L is the beginning of Vanilla Android as a serious consumer alternative to Sense or TouchWiz or iOS. I've always preferred vanilla Android as I just like stock, out of the box experiences. I want to enjoy the phone in its purest form as the designed of the OS intended. Which is why I'm so excited for Android L. I think Google is taking the stock experience very seriously this time around and I'm excited to see where Google takes it.

 

[SpoonCody]

Sure having that option wouldn't be a bad thing at all. I think that some of us though prefer having a feature rich, complete product day one versus buying an "almost there but need several tweaks" product. Basically, the CHOICE here is to have a better product out the gates.

Some folks may prefer a shopping experience that includes going home and installing a custom rom, rooting, and buying/installing a few apps to get the experience just right. Others value their time and investments and don't have time for that.

How condescending. Hope your response was valuable time spent.

 

[SpoonCody]

Based on the crappiness of the stock apps and the fact that Android L is revamping the stock experience (standardizing design language, adding certain features).

GPE devices are a relatively new thing and the Nexus program is far more than just a developer phone at this point.

I also think Google wants to build its own ecosystem instead of relying on OEMs and skins. You need a clear, standard, high-quality OS experience to do so.

To me there have always been two Android paths - the stock and the skinned/forked. OEMs have been polishing their various skins for years now, and Google has seemed to make adjustments to stock without ever really addressing it as if it were a viable option. Vanilla Android was always for "Developers" or "techies".

I think L is the beginning of Vanilla Android as a serious consumer alternative to Sense or TouchWiz or iOS. I've always preferred vanilla Android as I just like stock, out of the box experiences. I want to enjoy the phone in its purest form as the designed of the OS intended. Which is why I'm so excited for Android L. I think Google is taking the stock experience very seriously this time around and I'm excited to see where Google takes it.

So you don't know that "the presence of so many options has seemed to be more of an excuse for Google not to have to bother with the stock apps because they'll just get replaced anyways"?

Gotcha.

All you're pointing out is Google is improving Android. That's like me saying, wow, Apple must've not cared about improving their keyboad because they knew they'd eventually allow for third party keyboards.

Rubbish. Google is improving Android as they should be. Have you not watched those interviews/articles/videos about how Material design came to be? Google didn't just suddenly wake up from a dreary daze of "hey we don't need to do anything cause third party defaults! Hooray" and suddenly decided to get their act together.

In fact, if anything, they've been constantly improving their default apps. Gmail, the keyboard (as you pointed out yourself), Chrome, Google Maps, Translate, Google Now, etc. etc. all year long via the Play Store.

You're talking rubbish now. "The presence of so many third party options seems to be more of an excuse for Google not to bother with their stock apps"? Utter rubbish.

I thought you were actually going to point me to something you read or heard about or an interview where a Googler said something about third party options. I didn't realize you were going to cite rubbish.

 

[jrswizzle]

So you don't know that "the presence of so many options has seemed to be more of an excuse for Google not to have to bother with the stock apps because they'll just get replaced anyways"?

Uhh, of course I don't.....I don't work there. I was stating my opinions. I thought that was relatively clear....you know after I've repeated over and over that I'm stating my opinions and preferences?

All you're pointing out is Google is improving Android. That's like me saying, wow, Apple must've not cared about improving their keyboad because they knew they'd eventually allow for third party keyboards.

There's a difference between what has been relatively evolutionary to completely overhauling the design and standardizing various things across the OS. I think Android L is a much bigger update than say Kit Kat was.

Rubbish. Google is improving Android as they should be. Have you not watched those interviews/articles/videos about how Material design came to be? Google didn't just suddenly wake up from a dreary daze of "hey we don't need to do anything cause third party defaults! Hooray" and suddenly decided to get their act together.

Nothing about any of these companies is "sudden". I never said so. Simply that I think Android L marks the beginning of Vanilla Android as its own consumer option rather than just a Nexus/developer version to be tweaked.

Obviously this has been in the works for quite some time.

In fact, if anything, they've been constantly improving their default apps. Gmail, the keyboard (as you pointed out yourself), Chrome, Google Maps, Translate, Google Now, etc. etc. all year long via the Play Store.

Some more than others. Mail still sucks - though Gmail is apparently very nice. Over the last few months they've been busy updating them all to the new design language. You're taking my general statements and trying to apply them to each individual app. Some have been updated more than others. All-in-all, Android L is bringing about a major change. That's my point.

You're talking rubbish now. "The presence of so many third party options seems to be more of an excuse for Google not to bother with their stock apps"? Utter rubbish.

That's my opinion. I don't think Vanilla Android has ever been looked at on the same level as skinned Android. It was seen as a "blank canvas". I think Android L changes that - Vanilla Android will be Google's Android. This started before L, but I think L is the full realization of their vision.

I thought you were actually going to point me to something you read or heard about or an interview where a Googler said something about third party options. I didn't realize you were going to cite rubbish.

If I had a source, I would've cited it. Sorry you think my opinion on the matter is "rubbish". Not sure what about it specifically makes you feel that way. I think it's pretty clear Google is doing more for L than they have in the past. We can speculate as to why, but I think my theories are pretty good.

Regardless of the motivation, the result will be a more polished Vanilla Android experience. I'm excited about it.