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iCab and Mozilla

For the past day or so I have been using Mozilla's latest overnight build and iCab 2.7.1. iCab isn't bad, but it loads redundant images individually (e.g., if a page has 12 red circle bullets, all other browsers load them all once they grab the first one--iCab loads them 12 separate times). It is still faster than IE about 80% of the time.

Mozilla has been far faster than any other I have, and it has not crashed once--remember, this is betaware, so it will. I have also gotten a skin for it that uses less screen real estate and looks pretty spiffy.

The TV Guide test (loading TV Guide's satellite listings):

Browser, page viewable/usabe (seconds), page loaded

Mozilla 0.9.7+, 5 sec., 10 sec.
Netscape 6.2.1, 6 sec., 10 sec.
iCab 2.7.1, 8 sec., 13 sec. (note--did not render page correctly)
IE 5.1, 11 sec., 11 sec.
OmniWeb, 13 sec., 22 sec.

* DSL connection (shared over Aiport network), TiBook 667.

I was surprised that IE was the only browser that didn't display the page until the entire table was displayed. A couple of other intersting things: Only NS and IE rendered M$NBC correctly--another example of M$ making lousy, sloppy pages.

My general findings on speed (loading 10+ pages)
1. Mozilla
2. Netscape
3. iCab
4. IE
5. Omniweb

Frustrating that the only Cocoa app (and prettiest) of the bunch is the slowest. Even as Mozilla becomes more Aqua compliant (it now uses sheets instead of pop-ups), it still looks too much like Windowsware.

My hope is that, as Mac users, we don't take others' word about what is best--that's why we use a strange computer, right? That's why we are comfortable with people not understanding that our stuff works better. We know it works better because we try it out. I hate to say it, but if M$/Wintel boxes were better, I would switch. I don't care (so much) that they are the monolith. I make my decisions for selfish reasons. I use the computer that works best and is easiest to use. I know that because I have used (and provided support for) the others, not because someone told me Macs were better.

Please let me know if your results are differet, but please don't base your answers on dogma, religious beliefs, or outdated information. Base it on your informed findings.

CJM
_______________
"There are anecdotes, and there is evidence. There is no such thing as anecdotal evidence."
--Arnold Lazarus, PhD (famed psychologist)
 
chmorley: very interesting results. I haven't tried Mozilla in ages, its begining to look promising. betaware is an interesting thing. i know of plenty of applications that never leave the betaware stage and yet thousands of people use the software as if it were end product. some betaware is truly beta (mac os 10.2 for example) other betaware seems to be a whole new class of product. one that functions as end product but whose creators are reluctant to stamp the product "finished." its like those webpages you vist that have the "under construction" gif on them. ok i got a little side tracked, mozilla has always been true to its "beta" badge, some betas are just more stable than others (photoshop7b51 for example).

and well said at the end. i was shocked by the results of the "what broweser do you use" thread. seemed like evryone just used ie because it was pre-loaded, didnt know anything else existed, or its microsoft its the best. i expect this ignorance from pc users but was saddened to find it so prevalent in the mac community. i assumed people who had spent time to test different computers and settled on the mac would be just as thoughtful when looking for a brower.
 
find a .html document

open "Help" application and drop the .html file on to it (in the dock)

Help Viewer is powered by HTML, its an HTML browser!

guy
 
Originally posted by Ensign Paris
find a .html document

open "Help" application and drop the .html file on to it (in the dock)

Help Viewer is powered by HTML, its an HTML browser!

guy

hahaha! guess we just need an address field and we have our very own apple internet browser.
 
Hopefully M$ don't make IE for mac like
IE6 for windows that sucks hard
 
Browsers

have had a fair bit of experience recently playin with different browsers for os x. I suppose it is a question of having gotten used to my previous browser (IE for OS9) that has defined what i 'need' in a browser.

Opera - as good as always but problems importing bookmarks and scroll wheel non functional.

Omni - i really tried hard to use this and after a few days gave up due to problems with rightclick menus and no ability to go back apart from one page at a time.

Net Nav 6 - cannnn iii heeeeeaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr youuuuuuuuuuuu sayyyyyyyyy SSSSLLLLLLLOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW? Bloaty and full of useless AOL addons and did i mention slowwwwwwww?

Icab - can't remember why i didn't like it but I didn't.

Bugger-back to IE which btw you cannot easily get a standalone installer for on OSX - yes it is part of the OSX CD but ......

IE does what i want and as long as you do not mind it crashing approx once an hour on a clean installed system I really have to say it is, for me, (see earlier qualification) the best of the bunch. Unfortunately we will never see an apple browser due to the holding of Apple ransom by M$ and the whole Office thing. If it was as good as the Apple Mail program I'd even pay for it !!!!!
 
Funny.

Not sure why your experiences are so different. I am assuming you've tried the latest version of Netscape or you wouldn't be posting. Nothing worse than dogma. "Macs suck." "Netscape sucks." 99% of the time these are opinions of people who haven't actually used a current version of either, or just listened to what their friends said.

I am more and more impressed with Mozilla. You might try it.

IE is the most crash-prone piece of software I have on my machine. And sssslllllooooooowwwwwwww. Takes forever to load anything complex.

If anyone finds anything that is Aqua-looking and fast, please pass it on.

CJM
_____________
"One must learn by doing the thing; though you think you know it, you have no certainty until you try."
— Publilius Syrus
 
chmorely I agree it's weird, no?

on my machine IE is fast, doesn't hardly crash - showed the TV listings as fast as NS

Using NS 6.2.1 from Apple site
Same with Mozilla - takes 3x as long to load the sw and no real diff on page display - but if you suggest a site to test them I will

Also, I like IE's auto fill in...

weird
:confused:
 
Apple's Help app uses IE for rendering HTML! It's part of a technology cross-licensing deal between Apple & Microsoft.

I'm sure I read this somewhere.
 
Mozilla

With Mozilla 0.9.8 out, maybe now is a good time to try the latest version.

Who knows if your results will match mine, but I am increasingly impressed with how fast Mozilla is.

Check it out at VersionTracker

Curious to see what you find.

CJM
_________________
"One must learn by doing the thing; though you think you know it, you have no certainty until you try."
— Publilius Syrus
 
yeah, hey could someone......

Hey, I never got to use cyberdog. It was really before I got into macs. Is there anyway that somebody can post or send me the installer? I'd really like to try it. tytanium02@mac.com
 
tv listing test

ti667 dsl ie



4seconds to load Diect tv listings.

i think this is pretty fast
 
Re: tv listing test

Originally posted by beatle888
ti667 dsl ie

4seconds to load Diect tv listings.

i think this is pretty fast

That is pretty fast! Certainly faster than I've ever had IE render that page. I am curious how Mozilla does on your machine.

I think the primary thing I have gotten from this discussion is that people seem to get different results with the same software and hardware. People have no reason for lying about their results (unless there's 20 M$ trolls hanging around--very unlikely), so I am left confused.

So beatle, please try Mozilla for a few days exclusively and let me know your results. I am very curious. IE seems to crash on my machine about every hour or so, and it's much slower than Mozilla or Netscape. Clearly, other people get different results. I am curious to see what yours are with Mozilla.

One other page I try--weather.com. Try your local weather listings.

Chris
 
.NET is good for you

Hate to say it, but .NET is actually a good thing IMHO.

The progress of Java has stagnated. Sun didn't keep things moving fast enough to satisfy the developer community and, as a result, they're about to get their lunch eaten by Microsoft.

Just like the progression in Web browser technologies basically stopped after IE crushed Netscape.

Competition is good.

(And, yes, Microsoft is copying a lot of Java features, but, then again, Sun didn't invent intermediary byte-codes and virtual machines, either)
 
eyelikeart earlier asked about whether it would be worthwhile to download iCab. I have been using it for a few weeks now. I think its almost brand new for OS X but im not sure. Anyway, it is very easy to look at and read text. Omniweb has the nicest appearance, but when I want to read on the computer I find iCab to be easiest on the eyes. (Then again I have imac with the 15 inch crt). Its faster too.

I think iCab is definitely worth a try.
 
I just downloaded Mozilla. Yep, its ugly. Yep, its fast. I want fast more than beauty. However, like the rest of Macusers, what I eventually want is BOTH.
 
ok i dont get the whole "mozilla is ugly" thing. i mean i certainly agree its not as nice as omniweb, but its better than anything else ive used (all the ones in the poll). it would be nice if the scroll bars and buttons were aquafied (for the osx version) but the "modern" skin is pretty nice and simple. I havent tried any of the skinds you need to download because ive been happy with modern.

the only thing i can think of as far as why people might think its ugly is that when it first starts up it uses the "classic" skin. if you havent discovered the "themes" in the view menbar option then i totally know what you are complaining about. classic is ugly. if this is the case check out the little theme option it will do wonders for you.

and remember its fully skinable, so all of you graphic artist buffs out there can make your own skins (maybe an omniweb ripoff?).

sjs: you know i havent checked out iCab in months, you have inspired me to take another look. Thanks!
 
Back to the subject at hand.

Wasn't the whole idea with X to go to a "browser style" GUI interface?

I think it'd be a real good thing for Apple to do (for instance) iSurf. I think an Apple browser has been the missing i-App. If Apple wanted to kick over a few ant-hills (as they are prone to) they'd integrate P2P and finance management into their browser. Think about it: A browser with a built in ATM (not the Adobe product :) ) andP2P. Link it through iTools and Sync it with iPod 2 and you have a "virtual wallet".

Watch the flames fly. I guess I'm just a pyromaniac. ;)
 
I like the idea of an iSurf titled browser, has a nice ring to it (unlike some of the other "i"deas people have come up with... iwalk? ipad? iNewt? -ok i know the last one is mine but i was joking).

as far as the p2p... hm, maybe, maybe too many feathers ruffled there though.

finance? ur purshing this every chance u get mischief, good idea though, im not sure about apple wanting to deliver it, especially in a browser but u never know.

Apple buys omniweb, puts some finishing touches on it (to make it fast and render pages properly) and titles it iSurf. I think thats all that is needed.

here is a question though, why isnt mail.app called iMail? Too weird since it does email? or is their an "i" branded mail app in the works? perhaps as part of a iSurf app? People like browsers with builtin messaging so maybe. What think you?
 
My post on the iPod will explain things.

I think Apple is pulling a quiet little hat trick. Apple has ALMOST got all the apps associated with data I want kept private, and yet always want handy. If they did a Browser with my P2P client account data and a built in financial feature with all THAT data I could put it ALL on an iPod and default it as boot-disk for my various computers. Upshot: All my confidential and identity related data is secure and nowhere but on my person.

I just think that a browser is the next logical iApp and those 2 features are the next logical inclusion. Apple always finds a way to integrate risky features without getting shot down.

Note: I ignore the Scully/Emiglio years as they were a bad dream for all Mac users everywhere and not worth mentioning.
 
Regarding Mozilla and the Themes

Ambitious Lemon is right, the themes do improve the looks quite a bit, though OW and iCab both seem more aqua.

The more I use Mozilla the more impressed I am with it's speed. I hope they don't slow it down during its development. I have used all except NS' latest and I am pretty sure Mozilla's the quickest.
 
Mozilla project

I actually agree that Mozilla is not all that unattractive. I had been using Little Mozilla, a skin that I liked for the screen space it offered. I had forgotten how much more appealing Modern is. Thanks, AL.

The browser I think we're all waiting for, though, is Chimera. It is part of the Mozilla development project (so it is about as fast as Mozilla), but it promises an Aqua/Quartz front end. While it's not nearly finished yet, it looks like it will be the browser we're all hoping Mozilla and OmniWeb might be--fast, accurate, and pretty. While it is not ready to be your primary browser, I hope it will be soon. The progress in the past week alone is staggering. I am curious to see how other people find it.

Chris
 
Chimera looks amazing. great possibilities there. take a look at the speed bench marks on that page chmor sent us. and its only at beta .13 now. i expect great things from this guy.
 
Chimera

Just to help me see the benchmark results visually, I graphed it. Chimera beats the pants off the others. When it's done, I think it will the one we are all looking for. Gecko engine with a Quartz front end. Wow.

Check it out yourself.

Chris
 

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