Will Apple Silicon Macs become slower with software updates like iOS devices? (Slower over time & lack of upgradability = more e-waste)

[MisterAndrew]

This is one of my biggest concerns with Apple Silicon and the data we have suggests this may be the case. These SoCs are built on the same architecture as the mobile SoCs. iOS devices are notorious for becoming slower with each year's major software update. For example, my iPad mini 4 is able to run the latest iPadOS 15, but it's so slow now that it is almost not usable. This is not the case with Intel Macs. Many people are using Intel Macs that are several years old that still work great. In fact, my 2013 Mac Pro desktop actually feels faster on the latest Monterey than it used to.

My concern with this isn't just the degradation of the user's experience over time, but as the machines become slower, and they cannot be upgraded, they will need to be replaced more often. That's great for Apple's profits and shareholders, but not great for consumers and the environment. This will put more e-waste in landfills. A better approach is adopting a modular design like the current Mac Pro desktop that is able to be upgraded over time. The ability to use a computer for several years significantly reduces e-waste.

 

[Daeve]

I’d not noticed this. My 2017 iPad Pro is just as fast today on the latest iOS as it was when new. Perhaps low end iOS devices will have limited memory issues that are not relevant to the M chips in laptops with 8/16 GB+ (and desktops soon). Is it just the lower end iPads etc ones that seem to slow down, my parents base models from 2017 don’t seem much slower on the new iOS, maybe a bit, but they were never that nippy compared to the Pro so I might not have noticed?

 

[Technerd108]

The slow down most likely is due to RAM constraints. iPhones have had 3gb RAM and now 4GB Ram for a while and now the newest iPhone 14 is supposed to have 8GB RAM. iPads generally have lower RAM so they slow down over time.

The new M1 based Macs that have a minimum of 16GB RAM should not have the same issues at least for a while. It is the nature of CPU components to seem slower as they age because hardware requirements change and get more demanding over time. Usually the limiting factor is RAM but the CPU will become obsolete and not be able to handle new codecs and standards but since M series is a new architecture built from the ground up for Macs and mobile devices I don't think this will be a problem for some time.

Generally Macs age better than PC's because of software optimization and drivers and with the new M1 I don't see this trend changing. The only exception would be any Mac with 8gb Ram which is too low for any modern system in my opinion.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Okay, I hope y'all are right about it being due to the RAM. iPad mini 4 has 2GB of RAM only. I remember iPhone 5S also became very slow over time. It has 1 GB of RAM only. So if this is correct, always configure an Apple Silicon Mac with the most RAM offered if you want performance to remain good over time.

 

[Technerd108]

Okay, I hope y'all are right about it being due to the RAM. iPad mini 4 has 2GB of RAM only. I remember iPhone 5S also became very slow over time. It has 1 GB of RAM only. So if this is correct, always configure an Apple Silicon Mac with the most RAM offered if you want performance to remain good over time.

Apple has been rather stingy with RAM on a lot of their devices for a long time. With the M1 sharing RAM with an iGPU it is important to have at least 16gb RAM. Honestly though most modern MACs/mobile devices, the 13" MBP excepted, have a decent amount of RAM now.

I always get as much RAM as is affordable in any device I own because over time it is always a limiting factor on Android, iOS, Windows, etc.

 

[mi7chy]

Agreed. Deficient RAM is the primary cause of slowdown over time. It's engineered that way otherwise you wouldn't upgrade as often.

 

[anonymous888]

Yeah seems that way. My previous iPhones slowed down notoriously after few updates - even the iPhone X. But my 2018 iPad Pro is still very fast.
Or maybe Apple saves the special SLOW sauce only for iPhones. ?

 

[JMacHack]

It sounds to me like you already have an answer in mind and are just looking to validate your opinion.

But I’ll bite.

For the record I do support things like right to repair and reducing environmental impact as much as possible.

But the more I’ve thought about it I’m not convinced modular components are that important to reducing e-waste.

I’ll start with anecdotes:
I’ve had a number of computers that were extremely repair friendly, low and mid range Dell laptops mostly, and by the time they got unbearably slow, even the upgradeable parts didn’t offer that much of a benefit.

My first Mac was a base MacBook Air, and it still lives on as my grandma’s primary machine. Despite it being much less repairable than any of the other laptops we’ve owned.

What I did to the old laptops hanging around was to repurpose them for other things, and in some instances cannibalize their parts for frankenstein experiments.

Frankly, I’m not sure that having replaceable components really does extend the usable life of a computer in the real world, since tech advances so quickly in general. In terms of processors alone Intel are notorious for changing sockets every two gens, and AMD only made AM4 last five years before deciding to move to AM5. And I can just about guarantee that your Mac will last five years.

Personally I’ve gotten about ten years of usable life from my machines whatever they are.

Now, will these machines get “slower”? No. Will software requirements grow? Probably. There’s always the option of running older or alter software in that case.

If we look at the iPhone for example, I think we can expect about 7 years of official support for a given Mac. And it doesn’t end with official support, you can use these machines for as long as they function. (Or repurpose them!) and I’d be confident in at least a decade of use in these computers, by which time a newer model is likely to be leaps and bounds better than anything, replaceable components or not.

 

[Bodhitree]

I doubt that they will slow down, I think that was a symptom of low-powered CPUs.

I had the iPhone 3G and iPhone 4S, and those did become a little slower late in their life cycle. I then moved to an iPhone 7 and that was still pretty fast when I traded it in. My current iPhone 13 Pro is new and shiny and blazingly quick.

 

[xxray]

Intel Macs do this too though. I don’t think there’s a device that doesn’t slow down with updates. Just the result of new features being added.

 

[MayaUser]

This is one of my biggest concerns with Apple Silicon and the data we have suggests this may be the case. These SoCs are built on the same architecture as the mobile SoCs. iOS devices are notorious for becoming slower with each year's major software update. For example, my iPad mini 4 is able to run the latest iPadOS 15, but it's so slow now that it is almost not usable. This is not the case with Intel Macs. Many people are using Intel Macs that are several years old that still work great. In fact, my 2013 Mac Pro desktop actually feels faster on the latest Monterey than it used to.

My concern with this isn't just the degradation of the user's experience over time, but as the machines become slower, and they cannot be upgraded, they will need to be replaced more often. That's great for Apple's profits and shareholders, but not great for consumers and the environment. This will put more e-waste in landfills. A better approach is adopting a modular design like the current Mac Pro desktop that is able to be upgraded over time. The ability to use a computer for several years significantly reduces e-waste.

Since every device get slower with time and updates , apple silicon will do it to. Its the way things are...updates means more features that need more under the hood power and ram
You cant expect that an iPhone 13 pro to run the same with ios15 the same way it will run with ios 20
Same things with PC intel/amd with windows 7 runs different than with windows 8/10
Yes, some software updates from time to time are made for the under the hood performance "polish" but not every year is the same game

 

[FNH15]

This is one of my biggest concerns with Apple Silicon and the data we have suggests this may be the case. These SoCs are built on the same architecture as the mobile SoCs. iOS devices are notorious for becoming slower with each year's major software update. For example, my iPad mini 4 is able to run the latest iPadOS 15, but it's so slow now that it is almost not usable. This is not the case with Intel Macs. Many people are using Intel Macs that are several years old that still work great. In fact, my 2013 Mac Pro desktop actually feels faster on the latest Monterey than it used to.

My concern with this isn't just the degradation of the user's experience over time, but as the machines become slower, and they cannot be upgraded, they will need to be replaced more often. That's great for Apple's profits and shareholders, but not great for consumers and the environment. This will put more e-waste in landfills. A better approach is adopting a modular design like the current Mac Pro desktop that is able to be upgraded over time. The ability to use a computer for several years significantly reduces e-waste.

You’re also forgetting a couple of facts about mobile vs. desktop development.

Consider that Intel machines really haven’t gotten that much faster over time when compared to iOS devices in recent years.
2010 MacBook Pro (17”, i7 640M) Geekbench score: 460/951
2010 iPhone 4 Geekbench score: 212 (not even a dual core!)

2018 MacBook Pro (15”, i9): 1053/5113
2018 iPhone XS: 1101/2708

2021 MacBook Pro (M1 Pro Max): 1746/12268
2021 iPhone 13 Pro Max: 1675/4614

Consider the implications: the performance delta between an iPhone 2G and an iPhone 4 is massive, which is why the 3G had extreme issues running iOS 4 (designed for a device with 4x the RAM, 3X the processor speed). iOS support has increased as performance has reached parity with Macs - which is why my iPhone XS is still perfectly fast in 2022 as it was in 2018 - conversely an iPhone 3G in 2012 was painful to use (I should know, I had one at that time).

By the time a Mac is dropped from mainline support, it will be too slow to use, or be architecturally limited in some fashion (for example, this is why a “perfectly good” 2011 MacBook Pro never got 10.14 - no Metal graphics support, or why the White 2008 MacBook was dropped after 10.7 - an awful Intel iGPU + no proper 64bit support for that GPU). Given the parity on development between mobile vs. desktop, and Apple’s long-term support lifecycle of ~7 years mainstream, 9 years including security updates, I’d expect this next generation of Macs to have the same robust support that the Intel Macs enjoyed (indeed, given how much faster they are, possibly even longer support).

Those using legacy Intel Macs, though, should be prepared to be dropped in the next few OS releases, as Apple makes MacOS fully Apple Silicon native.

 

[eicca]

I’m not worried. My 2010 Mac Pro runs modern software and stuff just as fast as any other computer I’ve used. I’ve tried to bog it down and just can’t.

 

[stevec618]

All devices will slow down with age, wear and the higher demands of newer software.

SoCs doesn't make a difference. I have a 2013 MacBook Pro and it's highly unlikely I could replace or upgrade the processor without some serious dismantling and soldering skills..

 

[dypeterc]

This is one of my biggest concerns with Apple Silicon and the data we have suggests this may be the case. These SoCs are built on the same architecture as the mobile SoCs. iOS devices are notorious for becoming slower with each year's major software update. For example, my iPad mini 4 is able to run the latest iPadOS 15, but it's so slow now that it is almost not usable. This is not the case with Intel Macs. Many people are using Intel Macs that are several years old that still work great. In fact, my 2013 Mac Pro desktop actually feels faster on the latest Monterey than it used to.

My concern with this isn't just the degradation of the user's experience over time, but as the machines become slower, and they cannot be upgraded, they will need to be replaced more often. That's great for Apple's profits and shareholders, but not great for consumers and the environment. This will put more e-waste in landfills. A better approach is adopting a modular design like the current Mac Pro desktop that is able to be upgraded over time. The ability to use a computer for several years significantly reduces e-waste.

Eventually all computers no matter what become obsolete. I’d say Apple does the best job of any brand in minimizing this obsolescence. I’ve had a MBP for 6 yrs and now an 1st gen iPad Pro for close to 4 yrs and it’s still fantastically quick.

 

[Romain_H]

Agreed. Deficient RAM is the primary cause of slowdown over time. It's engineered that way otherwise you wouldn't upgrade as often.

Absolute nonsense. Nothing gets slower. iOS does not get slower, and certainly RAM does neither. Where do you get this cr*p

 

[Jorbanead]

The only reason iPhones get slower is to help save battery life. That’s it. Apple themselves even confirmed this. It’s unclear if apple would do this on a mobile Mac, but I’m inclined to say no as they didn’t do this with Intel.

As far as we know, it has nothing to do with the actual hardware itself becoming slower.

Apple confirms it's slowing down your old iPhone - but for good reason

iPhone 6, iPhone 6S and iPhone 7 appear to be affected

www.techradar.com

 

[Mr. Awesome]

A family member of mine has a 2015 iPad Pro that‘s still shockingly fast on iOS 15. My iPhone XR is also often indistinguishable from the latest 13s.

We’ve reached the point where Apple’s hardware is advancing so quickly that the software can’t keep up. Even with new updates, your device has more than enough power to spare, most likely for years to come. The most limiting factor at this point is probably RAM.

 

[G46&Fbnth5]

M1 with 8 GB RAM yes, M1 Max with 64 GB RAM no. But it’s the same with Intel Macs: my 2014 MBP 13 is much slower running Big Sur compared to Yosemite.

 

[now i see it]

The AS Macs won’t age any better (or worse) than their predecessors.
New software drives new hardware demands and Apple gets to choose how demanding the new software becomes.

 

[Joniz]

It’s not the hardware “getting slower,” it’s the software becoming more CPU-intensive. The newer OS just do more in the same amount of time.

Surprised no one’s pointed this out yet.

 

[robco74]

As for ewaste, Apple already does far better in this regard. The new Macs are made from recycled aluminum, closing the loop. Several of the other rare earths are also recycled.

But as others have mentioned, we're already seeing a leveling off of yearly performance gains. The difference between my iPhone 12 and an iPhone 13 aren't as big as the difference was between a 3G and a 3GS. Carriers also stopped subsidizing the cost, so most people aren't upgrading every other year Because iPhones do perform well, they tend to not only get more updates than competitors, but run newer software pretty well.

As for the Mac, Apple has has less time to optimize macOS for Apple Silicon, compared to iOS. I imagine we'll see more improvements going forward.

 

[rocketpig]

Anyone who lived through early 90s computing wouldn’t ask this question.

The reason your iOS device felt outdated so quickly is because the underlying OS and software was advancing so quickly that it made recent hardware out of date. When you go from a phone that browses the internet (badly) in 2007 to a full-fledged computing device in 2014, those seven years are going to make 2007 hardware ancient. Hell, it’s going to make 2011 hardware ancient.

Now by comparison, look at a 2018 phone versus a 2021 phone. The 2019 phone is still pretty tight, right?

Yeah, it’s called market maturation. After a new market is opened (as in PCs in 1990 and phones in 2007), there is a mad rush of improvements that make everything outdated by the time it releases to consumers.

Then it slows down and devices last longer.

 

[ian87w]

This is one of my biggest concerns with Apple Silicon and the data we have suggests this may be the case. These SoCs are built on the same architecture as the mobile SoCs. iOS devices are notorious for becoming slower with each year's major software update. For example, my iPad mini 4 is able to run the latest iPadOS 15, but it's so slow now that it is almost not usable. This is not the case with Intel Macs. Many people are using Intel Macs that are several years old that still work great. In fact, my 2013 Mac Pro desktop actually feels faster on the latest Monterey than it used to.

My concern with this isn't just the degradation of the user's experience over time, but as the machines become slower, and they cannot be upgraded, they will need to be replaced more often. That's great for Apple's profits and shareholders, but not great for consumers and the environment. This will put more e-waste in landfills. A better approach is adopting a modular design like the current Mac Pro desktop that is able to be upgraded over time. The ability to use a computer for several years significantly reduces e-waste.

At this point in time, imo it's all about software optimizations.
Older hardware became "slower" not because they are running slower clockspeed all of a sudden, but due to the newer OS requiring more things going on (eg. machine learning) and optimizations for newer hardware (eg. new instructions not supported on older hardware, etc).

But in reality, one can optimize the OS to run well on older hardware as well. Case in point, iOS12. Apple can do it if they wanted to.

Imo the M1 still have plenty of performance overhead for a normal user. I have a now-obsolete 2012 mac mini i5, and it's still doing its job just fine. It's the software that "obsoleted" its usefulness, but I can still use Windows 10 on it.

About RAM, I do agree that it's sleazy for Apple to only put 8GB RAM an ALL pre-configured models of the M1 macs. When their own phones are getting 6GB RAM or more, it's ridiculous to expect a full-blown computer with just 8GB of RAM to last long. But Apple is about upselling, so I guess greed wins out.

If you are worried about this, at least wait for the M2. The M2 will use new cores vs the M1, and you can bet there will be optimizations tailored more for the newer cores. We already see how much more efficient the A15 (with the newer cores) vs the A14 (with the older cores, also used in the M1). Although I'm sure Apple would want to support their hardware longer due to their desire in making revenue from services, imo waiting for the M2 would be wise.

 

[Andrea Filippini]

This is one of my biggest concerns with Apple Silicon and the data we have suggests this may be the case. These SoCs are built on the same architecture as the mobile SoCs. iOS devices are notorious for becoming slower with each year's major software update. For example, my iPad mini 4 is able to run the latest iPadOS 15, but it's so slow now that it is almost not usable. This is not the case with Intel Macs. Many people are using Intel Macs that are several years old that still work great. In fact, my 2013 Mac Pro desktop actually feels faster on the latest Monterey than it used to.

My concern with this isn't just the degradation of the user's experience over time, but as the machines become slower, and they cannot be upgraded, they will need to be replaced more often. That's great for Apple's profits and shareholders, but not great for consumers and the environment. This will put more e-waste in landfills. A better approach is adopting a modular design like the current Mac Pro desktop that is able to be upgraded over time. The ability to use a computer for several years significantly reduces e-waste.

You get the point.
Hope that Apple policy will change over time.