Will Apple Silicon Macs become slower with software updates like iOS devices? (Slower over time & lack of upgradability = more e-waste)

[dgdosen]

Regarding perf, there was that little issue with Apple purposefully slowing down phones because 'batteries aged' - which was a deserved black eye for Apple.

With respect to Apple Silicon perf in macs - we have no precedence yet! We need a new generation to know how much faster chips get from generation to generation to determine how long it takes for a machine to become 'obsolete' - I agree with other posts - I kept my 2013 MBP for years because the chips didn't improve that much, and I hated the keyboard/touchbar.

Everyone's tasks are different, but Intel's slow pace of improvement in the last decade made it pretty easy to see new machines as not much faster than what I had. Now that Apple's on their own silicon, Apple's better able to make a user "want" a new machine with bigger perf jumps, or - because of Apple's focus on power efficiency - much more freedom to create some compelling new devices.

So, call it what you want, but I have a feeling I'm going to want to replace my laptop (or desktop?) at a much faster pace than I have during the last decade (as long as they don't bring back the touch bar).

 

[Tagbert]

I don't agree with this Statement.
Both BIG SUR and MONTEREY have ballooned and bloated to 12.5GB in size downloaded.
Windows 11 Pro and Windows 10 Pro are around 5GB in size.
On Most PC's with at least 8 to 16 GB or ram, an SSD and a 5 year old Intel or AMD Processor Windows 10 and 11 run just fine. No slow down. TPM 2.0 requirement needs to be hacked to install Windows 11.


So Windows PC's do AGE WELL and many parts are repairable and replaceable.
UNLIKE APPLE SILICON MACS.

The size of the OS download is not directly related to the size of the OS loaded into memory. Mac OS does not use a large amount of RAM when running.

 

[Tagbert]

Fact: Every computer slows down as you download apps and programs etc. So why would  silicon be any different

What you download and store on your SSD/Disk has nothing to do with your computer’s performance, as long as you still have enough room for swap space. Those files are static data and do nothing to the processsor or RAM unless you are actively running those programs. Or if you downloaded bitcoin mining software that runs in the background to suck of CPU cycles. Then you have a problem.

 

[jaysofficial03]

I think its more of the older devices that have this issue. Its also Apple slowing down certain device types and providing corrupted IOS updates that brick your device (older device). So is it possible they can do that with MacBooks, Yes. But I don't think this will be the case as Mac OS updates happen. And Mac OS is becoming more like IOS so performance won't be an issue IMO. But hey, who the F am I !

 

[leman]

I think its more of the older devices that have this issue. Its also Apple slowing down certain device types and providing corrupted IOS updates that brick your device (older device). So is it possible they can do that with MacBooks, Yes. But I don't think this will be the case as Mac OS updates happen. And Mac OS is becoming more like IOS so performance won't be an issue IMO. But hey, who the F am I !

The amount of misinformation in your post is impressive. Well fine, madam/sir! I especially chuckled about “macOS becoming more like iOS” bit, but “corrupt updates that brick older devices” is also gold.

 

[Romain_H]

I think its more of the older devices that have this issue. Its also Apple slowing down certain device types and providing corrupted IOS updates that brick your device (older device). So is it possible they can do that with MacBooks, Yes. But I don't think this will be the case as Mac OS updates happen. And Mac OS is becoming more like IOS so performance won't be an issue IMO. But hey, who the F am I !

Omg. Nothing in this post makes sense whatsoever

 

[mr_roboto]

Regarding perf, there was that little issue with Apple purposefully slowing down phones because 'batteries aged' - which was a deserved black eye for Apple.

Nah, that was a well intentioned feature which extended the useful life of aging batteries. It just got misinterpreted as user hostile. The main thing they whiffed on (which left the door open for the misinterpretation to be created and spread by the press) was not providing any indication or explanation of what was going on.

This page Apple created in the aftermath of the PR debacle explains pretty well what they were (and still are) doing.

iPhone Battery and Performance - Apple Support

Understand iPhone performance and its relation to your battery.

support.apple.com

Note all the emphasis on "peak performance": all modern smartphones (not just Apple's) have SoCs capable of burst performance levels which can draw on the order of 10W for very short time periods, but need to average less than 1W long term since phone batteries are small and cooling is limited. Phone SoCs are designed this way because typical users have performance demand profiles which are very brief bursts of high activity mixed with much longer idle times. Make the peak performance faster, and the phone feels snappier.

If your phone's battery is getting older and its internal resistance is going up, it might not be able to supply enough current to meet demand during those high peaks any more. The slowdown is Apple capping frequencies to make the peaks smaller. The phone remains reasonably usable, doesn't crash itself due to battery brownout, and you can (if you don't mind its battery life and performance level) put off the battery replacement another year or two.

But like I said, Apple's big mistake was not communicating about this up front. People are going to assume evil motivations if they find out on their own that an old battery makes their phone benchmark slower.

 

[yitwail]

But like I said, Apple's big mistake was not communicating about this up front. People are going to assume evil motivations if they find out on their own that an old battery makes their phone benchmark slower.

Better yet, they could have made it an option that can be disabled if the user chooses.

 

[polyphenol]

About RAM, I do agree that it's sleazy for Apple to only put 8GB RAM an ALL pre-configured models of the M1 macs.

The base memory is 16 GB in the 14" and 16" MBPs.

 

[polyphenol]

The issue of machines becoming slower due to updates, etc., has some truth.

In the Windows world, the effect of a clean install of Windows can be dramatic. W10 felt faster than W8 when done like that, than when attempting any form of upgrade.

Have not had to do a MacOS clean re-install, but it seems reasonable to consider it might be so.

 

[Romain_H]

The issue of machines becoming slower due to updates, etc., has some truth.

In the Windows world, the effect of a clean install of Windows can be dramatic. W10 felt faster than W8 when done like that, than when attempting any form of upgrade.

Have not had to do a MacOS clean re-install, but it seems reasonable to consider it might be so.

Yes, newer software versions may be computationally more expensive, giving the impression if being slower. But this is not due to slowdown, just caused by additional features.

Windows is different: it slows down due to the Registry. Therefore re-installing helps

 

[Puonti]

Better yet, they could have made it an option that can be disabled if the user chooses.

Personally I appreciate settings, but I can see why Apple might not want to provide a simple toggle here. Their less technically minded customers would not, despite a warning next to such an option pointing out the risks, understand why their phone is "randomly" respringing, rebooting or "dying" in the middle of playing a game or filming an important moment.

I imagine it would lead to more customer complaints at Apple Stores (and authorized third party shops), where the staff would check the phone, turn the setting back on and ask the customer to keep it on - despite their "computer-savvy familymember" or "some website" recommending that the option be turned off for "best performance". This would contribute to whatever other issues were prevalent at the time, muddying up the waters.

Until batteries don't degrade, Apple's current stance on this saves them trouble they must feel is worth saving.

 

[polyphenol]

Personally I appreciate settings, but I can see why Apple might not want to provide a simple toggle here. Their less technically minded customers would not, despite a warning next to such an option pointing out the risks, understand why their phone is "randomly" respringing, rebooting or "dying" in the middle of playing a game or filming an important moment.

I imagine it would lead to more customer complaints at Apple Stores (and authorized third party shops), where the staff would check the phone, turn the setting back on and ask the customer to keep it on - despite their "computer-savvy familymember" or "some website" recommending that the option be turned off for "best performance". This would contribute to whatever other issues were prevalent at the time, muddying up the waters.

Until batteries don't degrade, Apple's current stance on this saves them trouble they must feel is worth saving.

By the time I upgraded, my iPhone 6S was needing to be recharged at least twice a day, and more often if I used it more than my usual.

I am glad that I did not suffer any random events.

The 12 Pro I eventually bought was phenomenally much faster and better battery life by far. But at least I was able to get to that point - just recharging often.

But I do wish Apple had been more up-front about what they were doing.

 

[ian87w]

The base memory is 16 GB in the 14" and 16" MBPs.

I said M1 Macs, not the M1 Pro/Max. All M1 Macs pre-configured models only have 8GB of RAM, including the Mac mini and 24” iMac.

 

[darngooddesign]

Absolute nonsense. Nothing gets slower. iOS does not get slower, and certainly RAM does neither. Where do you get this cr*p

The iOS and hardware don't technically slow down, but older hardware feels slower on the latest OS and that's what I think they were talking about. This is to be expected because newer OSes are simply more resource intensive, web pages are more complex, and applications are more capable/larger. My iPadPro9.7, for example, feels slower on iOS15 than it did on iOS9. I like iOS15 because it fixed a big issue in side-by-side multitasking so I'm not that upset about it.

 

[polyphenol]

Yes, newer software versions may be computationally more expensive, giving the impression if being slower. But this is not due to slowdown, just caused by additional features.

Windows is different: it slows down due to the Registry. Therefore re-installing helps

Not just registry. Also, severely fragmented files. Especially some log files. And copies of every executable that has ever been replaced by maintenance.

 

[Ethosik]

Fact: This is absolutely wrong. Windows slows down to some degree due to Registry issues.
That being said, slowdowns are not in general a real thing

Yep I agree. Even with NVME drives on my Windows 10 install, the fact that I installed and removed so many games and software which included so many components that was needed caused it to slow down dramatically compared to first boot when OS was installed. I formatted when updating to Windows 11 and its been so much faster. I typically format once a year with Windows PCs and never format on my macs.

 

[Ethosik]

Do things get slower, or are you doing more things than you were before? Keep in mind that the web is a bloated mess especially with ads. So even if you visit the same website, did they add a lot of javascript code that made your device appear slower? This is why I never understand using the web as a benchmark tool. As someone doing web design, that has actively caused a 500% performance decrease due to adding additional logic in Javascript over the years (site used to run in 1 second now takes 5 to load, and caused more CPU cycles and more memory due to added graphics and things), its not a good benchmark tool.

Some other things that might change which might make your computer seem slower - are you now working on 4K footage instead of 1080p? Are you working on larger photoshop files than before? I have to say, my 2010 Mac Pro with 8GB of RAM is just as fast at basic h.264 1080p video work as my 2019 i9 iMac with 128GB of RAM. The only advantage the iMac has is the HEVC capability and I only do that for the file size benefit. Dropping from 10TB of footage to about 6 TB has been very nice.

With the new M1 Max chip, since it has those extra ProRes encoders it FINALLY made my exports SO MUCH faster. But my 2010 Mac Pro is still speedy with that it is capable of doing.

 

[schneeland]

It always makes me smile when people report so many problems with Windows that I don't have anymore for 10 or 15 years or so - sometimes I feel Windows can sense if you have a negative attitude

But regarding the original question: as others have pointed out, even iOS devices do not slow down arbitrarily, but instead either applications or the operation system itself has higher demands due to added features. The more the device class matures, the less likely you are to encounter it in the future.

For desktop computers this state of maturity has already been reached - IMO the last big change was the introduction of SSDs - and as @ahurst pointed out, RAM consumption has plateaued a while ago. So unless you have applications with especially high hardware requirements (games, video editing, machine learning, etc.), as long as you get 16GB of RAM and 1TB of SSD disk space, you should be fine for a long time (I'm typing this on a 6 year old PC, which would probably be good for another 3 or 4 years, except for newer video games).

I will agree that I have mixed feelings about the tight integration of RAM in Apple's newest chips, but that's mainly from a maintenance perspective, not because there would be an real need for upgrading.

 

[jdb8167]

I said M1 Macs, not the M1 Pro/Max. All M1 Macs pre-configured models only have 8GB of RAM, including the Mac mini and 24” iMac.

Do you mean the configurations on the first page of the buy pages? Or do you mean what you can buy without going the config to order route? Because at least in the US, you can get MacBook Airs and MacBook Pros with 16 GB without having to wait for the CTO delay and they are available at the Apple Stores for immediate pickup.

I know this because on day one I wanted a silver 16 GB/512 GB MacBook Air but didn’t want to wait so I ended up with a Space Gray 16GB/1 TB MacBook Air that I could just pick up at a store.

 

[macfacts]

Better yet, they could have made it an option that can be disabled if the user chooses.

It's apples way or the highway. Apple only gives you choice in color.

 

[mi7chy]

Windows is different: it slows down due to the Registry. Therefore re-installing helps

Registry entries by themselves don't do anything. It's the ones loading memory resident programs.

 

[ericwn]

Absolute nonsense. Nothing gets slower. iOS does not get slower, and certainly RAM does neither. Where do you get this cr*p

Well said. Some prefer to live by myths and hot air rather than reality. Forums attract these individuals like moths to the flame.

 

[ahurst]

For desktop computers this state of maturity has already been reached - IMO the last big change was the introduction of SSDs - and as @ahurst pointed out, RAM consumption has plateaued a while ago. So unless you have applications with especially high hardware requirements (games, video editing, machine learning, etc.), as long as you get 16GB of RAM and 1TB of SSD disk space, you should be fine for a long time

Speaking of long-term storage requirements, looking at the base storage for all Mac SKUs from 1984-2022 shows a similar levelling off as base RAM, starting around the same point in the early 2010s:

Since ~2010, the three base tiers of ~250 GB, ~500 GB, and 1 TB have pretty much remained the same, with the only major change being the shift from HDDs to increasingly fast SSDs. With the increasing use of streaming services and media formats taking up about the same space as they did 10 years ago (unless you're an editor working with raw 4/8K), I don't see the storage demands of the average user increasing much anytime soon.

EDIT: Just realized there was a bug in the code I wrote for getting base storage sizes from the Mac hardware database, which resulted in a lot of 128 GB SSD Macs being left out of the plot. I've updated it accordingly with the corrected data.

 

[JMacHack]

It always makes me smile when people report so many problems with Windows that I don't have anymore for 10 or 15 years or so - sometimes I feel Windows can sense if you have a negative attitude

Instead, Windows has introduced new annoyances to deal with.