Will M3 Ultra be fused M3 Max, or?

[bobcomer]

When I look at GB, I see the MC score of a 13900 beating a M3 Max by about 3%. The i9 is 16E+8P, meaning it can run 32 threads at once, while the Max is 4E+12P, giving it no more than half the thread capacity, yet it is millimeters behind in the benchmark. Add one core cluster (four more P) and it will be faster than anything Intel has to offer, without having to go all-P.

Except that the 13900 isn't the highest end intel processor, the 13900KS is, and the 14900's are right around the corner. Things never stay the same for long in the computer world.

I have a 13900 Windows desktop that's close to the size of the studio, it's quite a nice machine. Runs warm, of course, it is intel and in a mini case, but I really haven't noticed any throttling, which kind of surprises me. Oddly, it gets warmest when there's heavy network activity.

 

[tenthousandthings]

And TSMC recently announced a new process for bridging multiple dies, which Apple might make use of. But probably not before 2025—which, yes, is not right now.

TSMC has made lot of noise lately about 3DFabric, which includes the "advanced packaging" used for UltraFusion. The headlines have been about silicon (chiplet) stacking and 3D IC, but it is mentioned when they list the achievements of the 3DFabric Alliance, specifically with regard to substrates. InFO oS (Integrated Fan-Out on Substrate) packaging (used for UltraFusion) has made recent "efficiency and productivity gains" that may be realized in M3 Ultra:

"Substrate Collaboration: TSMC has worked successfully with substrate partners IBIDEN and UMTC to define a Substrate Design Tech file to facilitate substrate auto-routing for significant efficiency and productivity gains. The Company initiated a three-way collaboration with substrate and EDA partners with the goal to deliver 10x productivity gains from automatic substrate routing. The collaboration also includes design for manufacturing (DFM) enhancement rules to reduce stress hotspot in substrate design."​

https://pr.tsmc.com/english/news/3070 (September 2023)

So, to answer the OP's original question, I'd say the chances of M3 Ultra not being fused M3 Max are near zero. "10x" performance gains and improved thermals for UltraFusion is meaningful.

 

[leman]

When I look at GB, I see the MC score of a 13900 beating a M3 Max by about 3%. The i9 is 16E+8P, meaning it can run 32 threads at once, while the Max is 4E+12P, giving it no more than half the thread capacity, yet it is millimeters behind in the benchmark. Add one core cluster (four more P) and it will be faster than anything Intel has to offer, without having to go all-P.

Not quite. In the price class of the Mac Pro you are starting to look at Xeons and Threadrippers. For example, the new Threadripper 7000 series is over 2x faster than M3 Max in CB2024 in a system that should cost under $5000. Maybe M3 Ultra will be able to match it, maybe not. At any rate, to play with the big names the Mac Pro will need the quad config. But a M3 Extreme for under $12k would be very cost-effective and competitive machine.

 

[Ethosik]

I think they need to revisit their strategy. Having the M1 and M2 Ultra and while it’s nice there are still areas my 13900k beats the crap out of it. Apple needs something higher than an Ultra for the Mac Pro to be viable.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Your argument about Apple's strategy makes sense. Having said that, personally I'd never consider buying a studio over a MacBook Pro given the current state of things.

The people that “require” the performance boost one of Apple’s desktops would provide are an ever shrinking group of folks. It’s a market Apple will sell to as long as they’re buying, but their CPU/GPU designs will always be built first and foremost for the wider market their mobile systems enjoy, then modified to fit other form factors.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think they need to revisit their strategy. Having the M1 and M2 Ultra and while it’s nice there are still areas my 13900k beats the crap out of it. Apple needs something higher than an Ultra for the Mac Pro to be viable.

I know right? Have you done a Final Cut Pro export test to see how it compares?

 

[Ethosik]

I know right? Have you done a Final Cut Pro export test to see how it compares?

FCP is where the Ultra shines but that is more to do with encoders than COU/GPU markup. It’s certainly faster than my Windows PC with Premiere or DaVinci Resolve.

 

[Sydde]

Except that the 13900 isn't the highest end intel processor, the 13900KS is

I took the top of the GB6 list. I could not remember the suffix designation, so I omitted it. The top processor listed is a 13900KS, which has a MC score of 21754. The top M3 Max has a MC score of 21057, less than 3% difference, with half the thread capacity.

The i9 is reported to have a base frequency of 3.2GHz, while I have read, somewhere, that the M3 tends to drop from its alleged 4.1 down to around 3.5 or so under heavy loading. That still does not seem to account for the difference in thread capacity, as Intel E cores have been said to be quite strong.