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aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
I feel that taking money from people in the previous few days/weeks is ethically wrong when they knew the service is going to be free.
iCloud is not MobileMe, and MobileMe is not going to be free.

*Some* of the MobileMe features (email and PIM sync) will be offered in the free iCloud service, but several of the key MobileMe features (20GB of online storage, iDisk, Photo Galleries, and web hosting) will only be available to MobileMe subscribers.

Your $99 renewed you as a MobileMe subscriber, which essentially gives you access to ALL features of BOTH services, until MobileMe ceases to exist in about a year for now.

If you want to make the point that that access is useless to you personally (say you don't use iDisk, web hosting, or Photo Galleries), that's fine. But to say that Apple's taking people's money for MobileMe is unethical, even though it gives those people unique features, doesn't sound right, IMO.
 

halfab

macrumors newbie
Jun 7, 2011
5
0
If you want to make the point that that access is useless to you personally (say you don't use iDisk, web hosting, or Photo Galleries), that's fine. But to say that Apple's taking people's money for MobileMe is unethical, even though it gives those people unique features, doesn't sound right, IMO.

It was 118 Euro ($173) they took from me for a family sub. We only used Mobileme for mail and to sync contacts.
The unethical part is that they've taken money from some people and less than 24 hours later given it free to others. C'est la vie.....
 

antzona

macrumors regular
Jan 10, 2008
124
3
California
iCloud is not MobileMe, and MobileMe is not going to be free..

MobileMe certainly is free for people who didn't have to renew until June 7th or after. I renewed on June 2nd so I had to pay $99 to renew. If I had originally signed up five days later in 2002 I wouldn't have had to pay the $99, because I would have been given the free extension to June of 2012. There are people who didn't renew when their accounts lapsed in May and now they are active again without paying a dime. That makes MobileMe free. Unfairly free, but free none the less.
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
I didn't think I needed to be as specific as to give examples of free services, but iCloud, gmail, hotmail, and Yahoo are examples of what I meant by a free service. MobileMe is certainly not considered a free service, despite the fact that some members aren't paying for it.

There is always a cut off date. If Apple made that date 6/2 to suit you (or 6/7 to suit halfab), there would still be people pissed off because that cut-off date didn't suit them.

Like halfab said, c'est la vie...
 

antzona

macrumors regular
Jan 10, 2008
124
3
California
I'm sure I would be saying c'est la vie if my renewal date was June 7th.

Not sure why we have to say c'est la vie. Why can't we count on companies and service providers to think situations through and do the right thing every once in awhile? Sometimes that means sacrificing profit. There is no way they should have taken $99 from people as late as the morning of June 6th for something they would be giving away for free later that day. It's wrong, plain and simple.
 

antzona

macrumors regular
Jan 10, 2008
124
3
California
I didn't think I needed to be as specific as to give examples of free services, but iCloud, gmail, hotmail, and Yahoo are examples of what I meant by a free service. MobileMe is certainly not considered a free service, despite the fact that some members aren't paying for it.

What halfab was referring to, which is who you were responding to, was the fact that MobileMe became free for many users merely hours after others were charged $99. You didn't have to be more specific about what a free service is, as it comes across as condescending, and I and most other forum members understand, but I do have trouble understanding how it relates to what halfab originally wrote.

The way this should have been handled is this:
Every MobileMe subscriber with a current active account has their subscription extended through June 30, 2012 free of charge. Every subscriber will receive a pro-rated refund, based on June 6, 2011 as the closing date. If you renewed on June 2, 2011, like me, you get back a refund for around $97. Meaning I paid for 4 days of service. If you renewed on February 2, 2011 then you receive a refund for 8 months. Meaning you paid for the 4 months from February to June. If you renewed in July of 2010 then you get a refund for one month. You get the idea.

This, of course, means Apple is sacrificing some money, but at least they are treating all of their customers equally, and there would be no uproar from angry customers. There would be no reason for any customer to feel like they were shafted in this situation. If you let your subscription lapse in March, then you will have to wait until the Fall to sign up for iCloud. I have no idea why they reinstated those accounts when people willingly chose not to renew, yet those of us who renewed were stuck either paying the $99 or canceling.
 
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Bukey

macrumors newbie
Jun 7, 2011
16
0
UK
I really don't get it...

MobileMe is not now - nor will ever be - a free service. It's a paid service that Apple - as a gesture of goodwill have extended for no further payment until it's end of life for a product they have decided to retire in just over a years time to a different product.

Everyone is getting MORE than they paid for and agreed to pay for. A line had to be drawn in the sand somewhere - and whenever there would be unhappy people.

I think they way they've done it has been the fairest way - they've done it immediately from making the announcement. Surely people would be more hacked off (and have a right to be) if they said on Monday, "We'll stop taking payments on a certain day" - because then some people would be renewed automatically after the announcement of MobileMe's demise?

Also - anyone that has got that much of a problem with being renewed in the last 45 days and wants to be on an equal footing with everyone else (as they feel that would be fairer) has the option to cancel.

I think the only reasons anyone would have to complain is if:

1) Apple cut off MobileMe before someone's subscription ended.

or

2) Apple took payments after the announcement was made.

If I was to buy a new TV six weeks ago and the manufacturer announced they were ceasing that model in a month's time and halving the RRP immediately I'd have no recourse to do anything about it.

Unfortunately products change. I think Apple have done the right thing.... I mean, the other options Apple could have taken are:

1) End everyone's MobileMe subscription on the renewal date.
They've gone above and beyond this!

2) Issued refunds / part refunds.
Of course, to be absolutely fair this could / should only happen when your MM account is transferred. Yes you'd get a refund now. But the cost to run / administer this would be absorbed somewhere... So you (and everyone else that's never used MM) would see this cost bolted on elsewhere in a stealthy fashion. You'd still pay somewhere.

3) Issued refunds / part refunds. #2
This seems to be the option lots of people want. Continue using MM (with features that aren't in iCloud), get an extension to the end of June 2012 AND a refund.

I get the point that some people have said they don't use some of the extra features in MM (like iDisk) - but that's your choice. The point is that the service has been provided. I don't watch half the channels on my cable TV - but I still have to pay for them because I pay for a package.

And again - just want to point out - that I don't mean to be harsh or come across funny with this post... I do understand why some people feel a bit "aarrrgghh!" about all this - but really we're all going to be getting more than we paid for. :)
 

Bukey

macrumors newbie
Jun 7, 2011
16
0
UK
The way this should have been handled is this:
Every MobileMe subscriber with a current active account has their subscription extended through June 30, 2012 free of charge. Every subscriber will receive a pro-rated refund, based on June 6, 2011 as the closing date. If you renewed on June 2, 2011, like me, you get back a refund for around $97. Meaning I paid for 4 days of service. If you renewed on February 2, 2011 then you receive a refund for 8 months. Meaning you paid for the 4 months from February to June. If you renewed in July of 2010 then you get a refund for one month. You get the idea.

Sorry - just another quick one. You say that you paid for 4 days of service... Sorry but I don't think you have.

You renewed on June 2, 2011. You've actually paid for 12 months of service - and you're going to be given 12 months and 28 days of service.

It's about different perspectives I guess. :)
 

svale

macrumors member
Mar 11, 2009
72
1
I got email yesterday indicating I was eligible for a refund!

Boy, that's a first. I hope this isn't someone
trolling (forgive me but you can see why I ask).

What are the circumstances that make you eligible
for a refund? When did you join/resubscribe?

Would you care to provide some proof

He/she isn't lying. I received that e-mail too. This is what it said.

Dear MobileMe member,
Our records indicate that you have entered an activation code in your MobileMe account to renew your subscription. We have extended all MobileMe subscriptions through June 30, 2012, at no additional charge, so you are eligible for a full refund for this activation code.

To claim your refund:
1. Sign in to me.com.
2. Click your name in the top right and choose Account.
3. Then click Request Refund.
4. Complete the online form.

After completing the online form, you will receive your refund in four to six weeks via check or electronic funds transfer.

Claiming a refund will not affect your paid service in any way.

Sincerely,

The MobileMe Team

Based on my case and others I've spoken to, only those with activated but unused codes are receiving this e-mail and given the opportunity to request a refund.

In my case, I signed up to MobileMe in January 2011. I did so by buying and adding two MobileMe box codes. The first code covered my subscription from January 2011 through to January 2012. The second code extends it from January 2012 through to January 2013. However, Apple doesn't "use" codes until they're needed, so while that second code has been tied to my account, it hasn't yet been used which is why Apple has offered me a refund for it.

Note that I haven't been offered a pro-rated refund for the first code. But I don't have a huge problem with that. At the end of the day, I was prepared to pay for a year's worth of MobileMe, and I'm still getting that. In fact, I'm getting more since all our accounts have been extended through to June 2012 for free.
 

Wicked1

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2009
3,283
14
New Jersey
I too wonder how the transitino will work. It's funny because about 3 days ago I got my "don't forget to renew" email from MM. My subscription runs out on July 2nd.

Giving out refunds is going to be tricky because many people bought from different sources. I did not buy a subscription for $99/yr direct from Apple, will I get a prorated refund at the $99/yr rate? I'm surprised when SJ sais MM will cease to exist, he did not even at least acknowledge how the handling of current customers is going to be.

My other question is, what is going to happen to all the other MM features? I regularly use BTMM, is that functionality going to disappear? How about web hosting? What about my iDisk storage? If I had >5GB on my iDisk, do i get cut down? Can I pay for more storage? Is iDisk finally not going to be a crawling mess

Also, since my iPod touch is only 2nd gen and is long ago abandoned by Apple for OS updates, means I can't get contact syncing anymore unless I upgrade to new hardware.

Obviously more info will have to come in the future to address these

Ruahrc

edit: saw the post above mine. Answers some questions, still wondering if things like BTMM will just disappear or if they will continue to exist in some other location/form.

Received an email stating my refund will be to me within 2-4 weeks, I would have liked the option of just getting $69.99 worth of iTunes credit, but oh well, I will see shortly how they refund the $69.99 I paid in advance.
 

Dr McKay

macrumors 68040
Aug 11, 2010
3,531
261
Kirkland
I always liked having a @me account. Purely because the only other person I've ever seen with one is my friend. Everyone at work is jelous of it though, because its the only email provider not filtered out.
 

antzona

macrumors regular
Jan 10, 2008
124
3
California
2) Issued refunds / part refunds.
Of course, to be absolutely fair this could / should only happen when your MM account is transferred. Yes you'd get a refund now. But the cost to run / administer this would be absorbed somewhere... So you (and everyone else that's never used MM) would see this cost bolted on elsewhere in a stealthy fashion. You'd still pay somewhere.

So how are they absorbing the cost of the accounts that people didn't renew in February that are now magically reinstated until June 30, 2012? How are they absorbing the cost of the accounts that were due for renewal on June 7th, five days after mine, that now have until the end of June 2012 for free? You can act like Apple did the right thing here, but they clearly didn't. The plan that I laid out is far more fair and no one would have been able to argue it. If you didn't renew back in February you shouldn't have your account reinstated now through the end of June 2012. If you didn't renew your account in May you shouldn't have it magically reinstated, free of charge. If you were an active account holder you shouldn't pay anything past June 6, 2011 if other customers are not having to pay anything past June 6, 2012. It's total nonsense to treat customers without equity, and a poor business decision.

Sorry - just another quick one. You say that you paid for 4 days of service... Sorry but I don't think you have.

You renewed on June 2, 2011. You've actually paid for 12 months of service - and you're going to be given 12 months and 28 days of service.

It's about different perspectives I guess. :)

That is true that I would be paying $99 for 12 months of service and I would get 28 days free. (However, I would change to iCloud in the Fall, which is free) It is also true that when Apple reminded me to pay that $99 on June 2nd, they knew that they would be giving that same service to hundreds of customers, free of charge, simply because they happened to originally sign up for the service five days later than I had. They knew they would be giving that service, free of charge, back to people who willingly chose not to renew their accounts within a few months of the June 6, 2011 announcement. We can spin this story around and around however we want, but the bottom line is, it was a bad way to handle the situation and has left a sour taste in the mouths of many loyal customers. Maybe not you, but many customers. There were options to avoid this, but they might eat into the all mighty profit margin a bit too much.
 
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NJRonbo

macrumors 68040
Jan 10, 2007
3,233
1,224
Official Response From Apple....


Okay, so I promised I would speak to someone
high up the ladder. I have done so this morning
and here is the official response from Apple...

There will be no refunds on MobileMe for iCloud.

You can cancel MobileMe within 45 days of signup
or renewal with a full refund -or- after that time
for a pro-rated refund. However, doing so will
remove your email account which means that
particular email address will not be able to be
used again, even with iCloud. If you keep MobileMe,
your email address will be ported over.

This is a definitive decision from Apple that was
already decided prior to the iCloud announcement.
 

Bukey

macrumors newbie
Jun 7, 2011
16
0
UK
That is true that I would be paying $99 for 12 months of service and I would get 28 days free. (However, I would change to iCloud in the Fall, which is free) It is also true that when Apple reminded me to pay that $99 on June 2nd, they knew that they would be giving that same service to hundreds of customers, free of charge, simply because they happened to originally sign up for the service five days later than I had. They knew they would be giving that service, free of charge, back to people who willingly chose not to renew their accounts within a few months of the June 6, 2011 announcement. We can spin this story around and around however we want, but the bottom line is, it was a bad way to handle the situation and has left a sour taste in the mouths of many loyal customers. Maybe not you, but many customers. There were options to avoid this, but they might eat into the all mighty profit margin a bit too much.

Agreed - we can spin it around lots. Realistically it's just a matter of perspective though. The facts are:

- Everyone gets more than they paid for.
- A few lucky people have got a totally free year and a bit. Everyone else gets the service they paid for plus some more.
- However Apple had handled it there would have been some on the cusp that would've complained.
- They made it as fair as possible for everyone from the point of going public - this is all that can be expected really from a business. It's a business/trade secret covered under NDAs until going public - this is why the cutoff was when it was.

I do understand why you may feel unlucky. But you still get what you paid for. Surely you don't begrudge a small amount that got lucky by the timing? Would you be saying the same had you been one of those people?

So how are they absorbing the cost of the accounts that people didn't renew in February that are now magically reinstated until June 30, 2012? How are they absorbing the cost of the accounts that were due for renewal on June 7th, five days after mine, that now have until the end of June 2012 for free? You can act like Apple did the right thing here, but they clearly didn't. The plan that I laid out is far more fair and no one would have been able to argue it. If you didn't renew back in February you shouldn't have your account reinstated now through the end of June 2012. If you didn't renew your account in May you shouldn't have it magically reinstated, free of charge. If you were an active account holder you shouldn't pay anything past June 6, 2011 if other customers are not having to pay anything past June 6, 2012. It's total nonsense to treat customers without equity, and a poor business decision.

As I put - it's a matter of perspective. Your "plan" isn't fair at all. It requires Apple to continue to provide paid services - on current hardware, in current data centres, with current staff that has all been setup to an existing business case - and take the entire hit for over a years worth of service.

The costs would just get moved elsewhere. You and I - and also people that have never had MobileMe - would just end up paying in other ways.

The truth is that iCloud has been built to a different business case, with different ways of paying for it.

Apple is end of life'ing MobileMe. There has to be a transition.

It is easier - technically, logistically and from a support perspective - to set an end date, set a date to allow migrations from, and set the process in place, and try and set things up with as few other variables as possible.

I do take your point about those being re-activated from February - had I not renewed previously, I'd be in that number... But those that didn't renew in February have also not had services since then. I renewed on the merits of the services I was getting - have had them since and continue to get them.

Again from a technical and support perspective - it's probably a huge time saver to handle things in this way with the re-activated accounts.

Anyone that's ever been involved in any technical migrations will say the same.

Nobody's paying anything after the 6th June - as you've said Apple should do. All payments were before then. Then everyone gets extra for gratis.

As in my last post - surely you don't begrudge a few people that got lucky? Relatively speaking I should imagine those with reactivated accounts or subscribed/renewed in the last short while are few and far between. You still get what you paid for - a few people (and it's luck of the draw really) got lucky.
 
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tivoboy

macrumors 601
May 15, 2005
4,052
853
refund or credit

I think what we'll see, as has been somewhat noted here is that we'll be able to "cancel" the official mobileme account when iCloud comes out and get some form of refund. Pro-rated, but will require some proof of payment. For me, I paid about 25$ a year for MM, so I don't really care too much and am certainly not going to cancel NOW and lose all my syncing, galleries, etc.

I DO think, however, that we WILL see some for of extra bonus for iCloud for CURRENT and PAID mobileme customers come iCloud launch.

iCloud will be a PAID SERVICE for users who want more than 5GB of storage for documents, files, music and photos. Depending on the sync settings and quality settings for photos (for the ipad and of course for iphoto they can be full resolution) this 5GB is going to be done fast. Apple is going to of course CHARGE for more space.

Sugarsync and dropbox are probably good places to get insight into pricing where 30GB is 50$ on SS, 50GB is 100$ on dropbox. Apple will undercut this pricing probably by HALF.

So, I think we'll see a 20GB or 25GB plan for 24.99$ a year at MOST.

I have the feeling that current as of iCloud launch mobileme customers will get at LEAST one free year of 20-25GB possibly even TWO years for free.

It'll all even out. It makes perfect sense. The current users has most likely USED the service, galleries, syncing, iDisk, etc. They might NEED storage space. If they are given the same amount of space as a one year gift, most will continue to use it and will then become paying customers in year 2+
 

antzona

macrumors regular
Jan 10, 2008
124
3
California
The costs would just get moved elsewhere. You and I - and also people that have never had MobileMe - would just end up paying in other ways.

I am still curious why it's okay for them to absorb the cost of providing this service for free for people who didn't renew their accounts and are now getting the service again. Or the people who are set to renew this month or next month. They will basically get an entire year for free. I don't begrudge them anything, but I question Apple's decision to handle it this way. You refer to a "few" lucky people, which makes it sound like there are three or four people who didn't renew between January and now, and their accounts were reactivated. It could be hundreds of people or thousands of people who didn't renew and now have accounts that are active through June 30, 2012, free of charge. Will this cost be passed along to us? I would imagine a lot of people are going to migrate over to iCloud in the Fall and will no longer use MobileMe so the number of customers Apple needs to support MobileMe-wise will drop sharply. If I got a refund after paying on June 2nd, and still got to keep my account active until I migrated to iCloud, it would mean I got three or four months free. Some people are getting 13 months free right now. I was going to get 28 days, 9 months after I would have already transferred everything to iCloud and wouldn't be using MobileMe anyway.
 
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3goldens

macrumors 68000
Feb 26, 2008
1,890
265
Born NYC Living in CT
Got my email stating I would be getting a $99.00 refund for my unused activation on my MM account.

Done. Time to move up to the cloud!


Your refund request is now complete.

You will receive a Check refund for your unused activation code as follows:

- Credit Memo Number: xxxxxxxxxx
- Follow-Up Number: xxxxxxxxxx
- Additional unused activation code: $99
- Refunded Amount: $99 (plus any applicable taxes)*

Please allow four to six weeks to receive your refund.

This is your Case ID: xxxxxxxxx
 
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