Will the upcoming Macbook Pros use A14 or A15 cores?

[CWallace]

I don't really expect to see multi-chip Apple SoCs until the Mac Pro arrives with "Jade-2C" (2x"M1X") and "Jade-4C" (4x"M1X"). Though depending on when said model arrives, it might be 2/4 "M2X".

 

[UBS28]

It will really suck if we waited more than a year for a modified A14.

 

[leman]

I don't really expect to see multi-chip Apple SoCs until the Mac Pro arrives with "Jade-2C" (2x"M1X") and "Jade-4C" (4x"M1X"). Though depending on when said model arrives, it might be 2/4 "M2X".

Agreed. But I expect the underlaying technology to arrive earlier so that Apple can field-test it.

 

[Hexley]

Does which cores matter to you if you need to buy the next Mac being released?

 

[ChromeCloud]

Does which cores matter to you if you need to buy the next Mac being released?

Well, it matters if you are trying to predict what level of performance you're gonna get when they release them.

 

[Hexley]

Well, it matters if you are trying to predict what level of performance you're gonna get when they release them.

Let say you guessed correctly.

What prize do I win?

 

[ChromeCloud]

Let say you guessed correctly.

What prize do I win?

Do you realize you are on a website that is all about guessing what's coming out next based on leaks and speculations?

I'm interested in the future developments of Apple Silicon and Apple products roadmap in general, so guessing is just a fun exercise to me.

 

[Hexley]

Do you realize you are on a website that is all about guessing what's coming out next based on leaks and speculations?

I'm interested in the future developments of Apple Silicon and Apple products roadmap in general, so guessing is just a fun exercise to me.

The site's more than that.

It's to let buyers when to buy, hold or sell.

 

[JPack]

It will really suck if we waited more than a year for a modified A14.

A little bit, but it's to be expected. According to Nikkei, M1X taped out in April. That was before A15 in late May.

 

[Arctic Moose]

The site's more than that.

It's to let buyers when to buy, hold or sell.

Exactly. Say you have an M1 MBP. You are potentially interested in upgrading to an M2X MBP, but not an M1X MBP. If you upgrade, you want to sell your M1 before the new one is released, but if there is no M2X you’d rather hold on to the one you have. Do you sell now, or not?

 

[Hexley]

Exactly. Say you have an M1 MBP. You are potentially interested in upgrading to an M2X MBP, but not an M1X MBP. If you upgrade, you want to sell your M1 before the new one is released, but if there is no M2X you’d rather hold on to the one you have. Do you sell now, or not?

Good luck with that.

 

[Arctic Moose]

Good luck with that.

I have done exactly this many times.

Most recently, the rumor was that a 5K iMac with Thunderbolt 3 was going to be introduced in 2017. I sold my 2015 iMac two days before the presentation, most likely increasing my resale value significantly since the the one I was selling was still the current model on apple.com.

The rumor reporting and the informed discussion here is what allowed me to do that successfully.

 

[Hexley]

I have done exactly this many times.

Most recently, the rumor was that a 5K iMac with Thunderbolt 3 was going to be introduced in 2017. I sold my 2015 iMac two days before the presentation, most likely increasing my resale value significantly since the the one I was selling was still the current model on apple.com.

The rumor reporting and the informed discussion here is what allowed me to do that successfully.

But you lose the use of your Mac for 2 days?

Not a lot of people can have a down time that long.

What if the rumors are wrong?

Better yet what about other users living in countries where Apple products arrives weeks/months from US release dates?

 

[sunny5]

We don't even know if M1X will use A14 or A15 cores instead of a whole new cores just for M1X.

 

[Arctic Moose]

But you lose the use of your Mac for 2 days?

I have some old Macs, a few iOS devices and a PC or two, I can handle a few days or weeks without a top-of-the-line Mac.

Not a lot of people can have a down time that long.

I bet most people could if they wanted to.

If you can't? Don't do it. Simple.

What if the rumors are wrong?

Then you'll have to figure out what to do. I have been laptop-less for months and months because I expected the 14" last fall. (When the current 4-port 13” was released instead.)

I have been putting up with a 2013 11" MBA for my mobile needs. It isn't great, but it's fine.

(I also had a long string of years where I had discount pricing on PowerBooks, and basically upgraded to every new model without losing any money, and sometimes actually coming out ahead.)

Better yet what about other users living in countries where Apple products arrives weeks/months from US release dates?

I'm not saying everyone should do this. I'm not even saying anyone should do it.

I'm saying that I personally think it's fun, and enjoy it.

If it doesn't work in your particular situation, or you do not find it entertaining, just don't do it. Simple.

We don't even know if M1X will use A14 or A15 cores instead of a whole new cores just for M1X.

If Apple follows their previous naming conventions we can be pretty sure that a processor called M1X will be based on the same cores as the M1, i.e. A14.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Given the GPU improvements of the A15, I think it is likely the new MBP will use something based on that or designed in parallel with that.

The A15 isn't an entirely new chip either, so the conversation isn't really accurate.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Yes but that is from the extra graphics core, not architectural enhancements (unless you count the doubled LLC as such). And it doesn’t apply to all A15 chips, unfortunately, some only have four GPU ”cores” active.
It is a prediction though. Apple were careful not to make performance comparisons to the predecessor, and I think it’s a good idea to not overinterpret their rather nebulous claims. We’ll have better data soon enough. Also, it is not a given that what goes for the A15 will also be valid for the new Mac SoC.

I think the unfortunate reality is that the chip inside the new MBP was finalized long before the A15, and we are waiting on a worthless display upgrade that no one needs or wants, but that Apple is insistent upon including in order to raise the price and recoup years of wasted R&D on mini-LED.

 

[Lemon Olive]

By and large, and judging from very little data indeed, the main enhancements to the A15 seems to be boosted neural engine performance, added GPU core and doubled LLC cache (and new hardware codec support). Longer battery life may or may not have much to do with the SoC itself, and even then may be more about better management rather than lower operational power draw per se.

To me, this seems rather sensible when you use basically the same lithography and operate within the same thermal and power limits. They added a bit more than 25% transistors but they could not let them increase the power draw, rather it would be preferred if the power draw went down. And overall, it did.

What this means for the Mac chips is opaque, and the OPs speculation kind of makes sense. But it’s almost a year since the M1, and a simple scaling of the number of M1 functional units seems a little simplistic/unambitious. I will hold on to some hope for more. But I don’t think that we can infer all that much about that from the A15 even when we have real test data. Patience, I’ve heard, is a virtue. ?

I'm with you except for the patience part. By announcing Apple Silicon 15 months ago, Apple put a lot of professional users on hold.

 

[Lemon Olive]

But the name "M1X" is totally made up....

No, it isn't. It is the most logical definition of the processor, which is why it is used. And it is repeated just as often by the most reliable sources. No one in a position to know has ever said the new MBP would use an "M2" processor.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Hard to say.

It is interesting to note that the A15 is available in 4-core (iPhone 13) and 5-core (iPhone 13 Pro + iPad mini 6) GPU configurations.

This means that the A15 is a 5-core GPU design (the 4-core variant is the same but one of the cores is disabled to increase yield).

We also know from the rumors that the M2 SOC going in the 2022 MacBook Air is going to have a 10-core GPU...

Do you see a pattern?

The M1 was an A14 with double the count of high performance cores and double the count of GPU cores.
The M2 will be an A15 with double the count of high performance cores (still 4) and double the count of GPU cores (10).

So where does the M1X fit in?

The rumors say the M1X will come in 16-core and 32-core GPU configurations. If I had to see a pattern here, I'd say that 16 and 32 are multiples of 4, so.... I'm thinking the M1X will be an evolution of the A14 design rather than the A15 design.

There's nothing preventing Apple from building some kind of hybrid, but if you want to see a pattern here, it's definitely this one.

Bingo.

Also, we've known based on the timelines and rumor progression that this chip existed a year ago and went into production months ago, well before the A15. So, even without all of this air-tight logic, the rumors themselves indicate it.

 

[5425642]

I’m just wondering about the price. I want 32/512 or 32/1tb but it depends on the price ofc.

I do need more ram and storage then my 16/256 m1 has today

 

[leman]

Yes but that is from the extra graphics core, not architectural enhancements (unless you count the doubled LLC as such). And it doesn’t apply to all A15 chips, unfortunately, some only have four GPU ”cores” active.
It is a prediction though. Apple were careful not to make performance comparisons to the predecessor, and I think it’s a good idea to not overinterpret their rather nebulous claims. We’ll have better data soon enough. Also, it is not a given that what goes for the A15 will also be valid for the new Mac SoC.

There is definitely performance improvement in the GPU department (even without the fifth core). Also, the A15 GPU is marked as being a new generation in Metal, which means it has new features.

It’s interesting that Apple did not release any technical information about A15‘s capabilities. Usually they do it within the few days of new hardware being released. Lack of specific details leads me to believe that they are saving them for the Mac event. Which is further evidence that the new prosumer chips will at least in part integrate the technology debuted in A15.

Edit: actually, I have to correct myself. The past tech documents went public only when the hardware became available, not at the announcement date. So there is still until the 24…

 

[EntropyQ3]

There is definitely performance improvement in the GPU department (even without the fifth core). Also, the A15 GPU is marked as being a new generation in Metal, which means it has new features.

It’s interesting that Apple did not release any technical information about A15‘s capabilities. Usually they do it within the few days of new hardware being released. Lack of specific details leads me to believe that they are saving them for the Mac event. Which is further evidence that the new prosumer chips will at least in part integrate the technology debuted in A15.

Possibly. So far it’s only GeekBench data though. I’ve wondered if the uncharacteristically strong uplift in GPU performance on the Pro models might indicate that they use LPDDR5, but without knowing the memory footprint of the GPU compute subtests, it’s hard to tell. (I do wish they had kept some kind of memory bandwidth tests in the suite.) It could also be that there are subtests that previously spilled over into main RAM that really benefit from the doubled LLC. Or GPU architectural enhancements, or… we don’t even know if the GPU got to share the clock uplift of the CPU.

 

[ADGrant]

I'm not saying everyone should do this. I'm not even saying anyone should do it.

I'm saying that I personally think it's fun, and enjoy it.

If it doesn't work in your particular situation, or you do not find it entertaining, just don't do it. Simple.

It sounds like a fun hobby. I am more of a buy and hold guy with my Apple products, particularly with Macs and particularly right now when I am working from home because of Covid.

 

[leman]

Possibly. So far it’s only GeekBench data though. I’ve wondered if the uncharacteristically strong uplift in GPU performance on the Pro models might indicate that they use LPDDR5, but without knowing the memory footprint of the GPU compute subtests, it’s hard to tell. (I do wish they had kept some kind of memory bandwidth tests in the suite.) It could also be that there are subtests that previously spilled over into main RAM that really benefit from the doubled LLC. Or GPU architectural enhancements, or… we don’t even know if the GPU got to share the clock uplift of the CPU.

Well, they do have a description of compute workloads, and while it’s very sketchy, it seems like all the relevant benchmark data easily fits in 16MB cache of A14, so I doubt that the new cache does much. It’s not just the clock increase, as the improvements vary a lot from benchmark to benchmark…

iPhone 12 Pro vs iPhone14,4 - Geekbench

https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench5-compute-workloads.pdf