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Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015?

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MacVidCards said:
You forgot to mention that basically whether Apple wants to or not, they will be shipping faster PCIE SSDs since Samsung has moved to the SM951.
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Right, forgot about that one. Thanks for pointing it out. That is definitely a big selling point. Hopefully also with a bump from the standard capacity of 256 GB to 512 GB for the base model.

VirtualRain said:
And, while the Fiji core offers an upgrade for the D700s... what about the D500 and D300 GPUs? Maybe they inherit the D700 and D500 cores respectively?
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There have been some rumblings of a lower tier Fiji core. This would be atypical for AMD, since they tend to bump each top of the line processor down when they introduce a new core so put this in the "I'll believe it when I see it" category. Hawaii may very well be too power hungry and hot to throw two of them in a Mac Pro.


VirtualRain said:
I agree with you that a new 5K TB display is coming at some point... but I doubt it is immanent. All of Apple's displays since 2008 have been designed as docking stations for MacBooks... not for use with Mac Pros. You only have to look at the short pig-tail cable with a magsafe charger that comes attached to the display to understand this. Mac Pro owners need to forget about a new display from Apple until the MacBook line gets refreshed to DP1.3 which will probably happen over time via USB-C... not Thunderbolt.
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Something else to add, Thunderbolt 3 has been rumored to be a thinner port and able to deliver 100 W of power. The power delivery isn't important for the mac pro, but its not hard to see Apple using this on the Macbook Pros. They could introduce new 15" Macbook Pros with this port and get rid of magsafe. It wouldn't be the first time new tech came to that model first.

What doesn't seem to fit is the USB-C connector on the new macbook. It doesn't seem like Apple is about to give up on Thunderbolt as they wouldn't have introduced the mac pro in 2013 with 6 thunderbolt connectors only to kill the standard in 2 years. Why not just include a lightning adapter on the macbook, with thunderbolt on all other macs for expandability? Maybe USB-C will start replacing standard usb ports?

It wouldn't surprise me to see a 5k display that doesn't support USB-C and the new macbook. Apple probably has lots of statistics that show that a majority of macbook air users never hook it up to an external display except for the occasional presentation. That and the macbook's graphics are the most underpowered of any mac.

AidenShaw said:
Apple could update and keep the Tube for the people who like it, and introduce a new dual socket system at the same time.
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I don't really want to start a debate about this, but I'm guessing Apple saw Intel delivering processors with 12+ cores on them and decided that there was more benefit to be gained long term from more GPU power. The assumption would be that if you needed more CPU power than that, you would be moving into computer cluster territory. The downside with the traditional towers is the need to maintain drivers for every possible video card out there, and Apple likes to keep tight control over the hardware. Not to mention there aren't any commercially available video cards with thunderbolt output.
 
AidenShaw said:
Apple probably put a lot more investment and engineering into the battery for the watch.

I doubt that the form factor will change much for the nnMP, but the reason will be ego. Changing the form factor will be an admission that the nMP missed the mark for many people.

Apple could update and keep the Tube for the people who like it, and introduce a new dual socket system at the same time.
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Spot on. Sort of like how the iPhone's move down a notch for a year before being canned.

But I truly think that Apple is slowly but surely moving out of serious computing and further into fun gadget territory, and the days of competitive machines ended 5 years ago
 
Stacc said:
Something else to add, Thunderbolt 3 has been rumored to be a thinner port and able to deliver 100 W of power. The power delivery isn't important for the mac pro, but its not hard to see Apple using this on the Macbook Pros. They could introduce new 15" Macbook Pros with this port and get rid of magsafe. It wouldn't be the first time new tech came to that model first.

What doesn't seem to fit is the USB-C connector on the new macbook. It doesn't seem like Apple is about to give up on Thunderbolt as they wouldn't have introduced the mac pro in 2013 with 6 thunderbolt connectors only to kill the standard in 2 years. Why not just include a lightning adapter on the macbook, with thunderbolt on all other macs for expandability? Maybe USB-C will start replacing standard usb ports?

It wouldn't surprise me to see a 5k display that doesn't support USB-C and the new macbook. Apple probably has lots of statistics that show that a majority of macbook air users never hook it up to an external display except for the occasional presentation. That and the macbook's graphics are the most underpowered of any mac.
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Good discussion. A few thoughts...

Agreed that TB3 will likely appear on MacBook Pro first. If it's coming with Skylake it will come to mobile before the desktop/workstation chipset update.

The value of MagSafe is diminished as battery life increase to the point that you can run a full day without charging and just plug it in at night like the rest of your devices. So I think the writing is on the wall for MagSafe.

The Macbook and USB-C might be an anomaly and not worth reading much into... after all it's really more of a bridge product between a laptop and an iPad.

And I also agree that a new 5K display won't be designed for the new MacBook... It can only drive a 4K display.

One other thing to consider is that the number of Apple products without retina displays are very limited... the MBA and the 21.5" iMac. I think one more generation of the new Macbook (with one more USB-C port) will see the MBA EOL. And it's not unreasonable to think that a revised 21.5" retina iMac is in the works with a 4K display (which is the right PPI). That would not only mean that Apple's entire line has moved to retina displays but that Apple has the pieces in place to offer both a 21.5" and 27" stand-alone retina display. The only question is... what interconnect would it use? USB-C or TB3? Let's hope you're right and they stick with TB3 vs USB-C... it is the better I/O interconnect.
 
Nosferax said:
You're just trolling now.
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maybe i am.. i don't feel like i am though.

OpenGL is for graphics rendering. OpenCL and Cuda are for GPGPU programming. You can write whole program that are meant to run on your graphic card but don't produce anything on your display. The whole bitcoin mining is a prime example of this. Scientific simulations are another example. They use the GPU for number crunching, not for display.

OpenGL on the other hand is for programming shaders and effects.

Again, go read.
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look at the software being talked about.. there's a video a page or so back.. its 'lighting' is shaders and effects..

then go watch the actual movie.. its lighting is ray traced.. getting it to look like that would incorporate cuda or successor based software..

the animation one is probably fast clock based software.. and its realtime stuff isn't gpgpu.

i know there's a difference between the two.. they look different.. rendering software using cuda is prettier to look at than apps accelerating the viewports with openGL.. idk, i don't really feel like i need to read anything to know that they're different.
 
Stacc said:
...but I'm guessing Apple saw Intel delivering processors with 12+ cores on them and decided that there was more benefit to be gained long term from more GPU power.
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But Apple isn't *delivering* any systems with more than 12 cores, even though HP/Dell/Lenovo/SuperMicro and the others are.

I have a handful of 36-core dual systems for some very CPU-parallel tasks, and have settled on 20-core dual systems as the "cost-effective norm" for servers.

The "thing that shall not speak its name" around here is that the second socket gives you 40 more PCIe 3.0 lanes - more than doubling the number of available lanes.

Apple could add 20 additional T-Bolt 2.0 controllers to a dual-socket system.... The MP6,1 is starved for PCIe lanes....
 
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VirtualRain said:
The value of MagSafe is diminished as battery life increase to the point that you can run a full day without charging and just plug it in at night like the rest of your devices. So I think the writing is on the wall for MagSafe.
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If so, it will be too bad.

My old Powerbooks used to end up with mangled power connectors, both on cable and the PB itself. And to this day every month or two I am reminded when I nearly trip on a cable and instead it just flings off the MacBook due to this clever connectors.

And I still have no idea what all of this "Only 1 Cable" thing is about.

Why is it so bad to spend the extra $2 to have the power connector be separate from the USB port? Same with WHY oh Why did TB have to include Video? Never understood that either.
 
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MacVidCards said:
Same with WHY oh Why did TB have to include Video? Never understood that either.
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+100

T-Bolt could have taken off big-time if the "must do DisplayPort as well" requirement did not exist.

Honest anecdote. I was in CentralComputers today picking up a bunch of network patch cables (moving 40 servers to a new lab, don't want to re-use Cat5e cables for the iLO ports).

As I was filling a bag with network cables (green for 1GbE data, yellow for iLO and other management - in various lengths from 30cm to 3m) someone behind asked a staff member about a "thunderbolt cable". The Central staffer asked - "which Mac do you have?".

More than 4 years after T-Bolt systems shipped, it's still considered to be an "Apple interface". That's a fail.
 
flat five said:
maybe i am.. i don't feel like i am though.



look at the software being talked about.. there's a video a page or so back.. its 'lighting' is shaders and effects..

then go watch the actual movie.. its lighting is ray traced.. getting it to look like that would incorporate cuda or successor based software..

the animation one is probably fast clock based software.. and its realtime stuff isn't gpgpu.

i know there's a difference between the two.. they look different.. rendering software using cuda is prettier to look at than apps accelerating the viewports with openGL.. idk, i don't really feel like i need to read anything to know that they're different.
Click to expand...

That's your problem right there...
 
VirtualRain said:
And, while the Fiji core offers an upgrade for the D700s... what about the D500 and D300 GPUs? Maybe they inherit the D700 and D500 cores respectively?

Also, you need to keep in mind that Apple is running two high-end Tahiti cores and a Xeon CPU off a 450W power supply with a single cooling fan. This means they are certainly binning the GPUs for optimal thermal performance. That will likely mean some hysteresis between any new GPU launch and it being added to the nMP.

I believe that until we see GPUs move to 20nm process, we're not going to see any significant improvements. And with Apple pretty much consuming all available 20nm FAB production with A8 (and it's successor), I'm starting to wonder if we'll ever see 20nm GPUs.
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One of the reasons why Apple went with AMD for their computers is that AMD is willing to be shut up about their upcoming technology, if it serves their clients.

Secondly, I think people will be shocked to hear that upcoming new line of AMD GPUs will have HBM almost on all line-up. And with performance of new GPUs. There is a rumor, that R9 370X will have performance of R9 290 and will have 140W of TDP. R9 390 should have TDp of around 220W, IF the rumors are correct. But that doesnt matter. What matters is this: http://www.dongpingzhang.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/MSPC6-Zhang.pdf

Totally different world of performance. And the idea is pretty similar to.. Cyclone core and further, from Apple in their own custom ARM cores.

Third, Apple bought 20nm from TSMC, and it its well known that AMD went back to GlobalFoundries for producing upcoming products. And that includes every node from 28 to 14 nm, so far.
 
AidenShaw said:
I have a handful of 36-core dual systems for some very CPU-parallel tasks, and have settled on 20-core dual systems as the "cost-effective norm" for servers.
[...]
The MP6,1 is starved for PCIe lanes....
Click to expand...

AidenShaw said:
(moving 40 servers to a new lab, don't want to re-use Cat5e cables for the iLO ports).

As I was filling a bag with network cables (green for 1GbE data, yellow for iLO and other management - in various lengths from 30cm to 3m)
Click to expand...


who you wish the mac pro was designed for:

wish1.jpg



----

who the mac pro is designed for:

wish2.jpg


;)
 
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AidenShaw said:
But Apple isn't *delivering* any systems with more than 12 cores, even though HP/Dell/Lenovo/SuperMicro and the others are.

I have a handful of 36-core dual systems for some very CPU-parallel tasks, and have settled on 20-core dual systems as the "cost-effective norm" for servers.

The "thing that shall not speak its name" around here is that the second socket gives you 40 more PCIe 3.0 lanes - more than doubling the number of available lanes.

Apple could add 20 additional T-Bolt 2.0 controllers to a dual-socket system.... The MP6,1 is starved for PCIe lanes....
Click to expand...

Multicore is very good in servers, but limited for parallel tasks. Even if you doubled your 36 core machine you might get...what....1/8 more efficiency, if that? Which would diminish your returns every time you add a core. Not very cost effective for a single machine. Probably why Apple went with the GPU instead.
 
VirtualRain said:
The current parts use AMD Pitcairn and Tahiti GPU cores. There was a minor bump in performance (20%?) with Hawaii and Tonga but that also came at a thermal penalty... they ran hotter. The new part coming out is the Fiji core and that will be for the top-end only, so could form the basis for a D700 successor. It will likely support HBM memory for better bandwidth, but there's only so much AMD can do to improve performance without compromising thermals until they move to 20nm.

I believe that until we see GPUs move to 20nm process, we're not going to see any significant improvements. And with Apple pretty much consuming all available 20nm FAB production with A8 (and it's successor), I'm starting to wonder if we'll ever see 20nm GPUs.
Click to expand...

20nm lithography is not suitable for large GPUs. They will jump directly to 16/14nm FinFet from 28nm.
 
Here's another hairy thought.

The inter-webs are bouncing with suggestions that the (rounded square) Apple-TV shaped elements in the WWDC/2015 logo represent - yep, some big Apple-TV announcements!

If that's the case, then what do the round objects represent? Is this just artistic licence /expression... or is there a deeper meaning. Hey?

wwdc_2015_roundup.jpg
 
rdav said:
The inter-webs are bouncing with suggestions that the (rounded square) Apple-TV shaped elements in the WWDC/2015 logo represent - yep, some big Apple-TV announcements!

If that's the case, then what do the round objects represent? Is this just artistic licence /expression... or is there a deeper meaning. Hey?

Image
Click to expand...

playing off s.jobs 'square peg round hole' speech.
 
rdav said:
The inter-webs are bouncing with suggestions that the (rounded square) Apple-TV shaped elements in the WWDC/2015 logo represent - yep, some big Apple-TV announcements!

If that's the case, then what do the round objects represent? Is this just artistic licence /expression... or is there a deeper meaning. Hey?

Image
Click to expand...

Apple Watch apps are round. So my guess is they represent the new Watch native SDK
 
Four Colour Varietals O'Pro.

beaker7 said:
Holy crape, they're still selling the Mac Pro?
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Yep, and apparently the next update will be available in some odd shades of purple, orange, yellow & cyan - as per the logo. But please don't tell anyone (it's still a secret).

Sadly, we're unlikely to see another Red version - since that coating adds almost $1M to the price.
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2013/null-n09014/lot.27.html

Or something to match the iPhone /Gold & iWatch Editions perhaps.
http://media.idownloadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Gold-Mac-Pro-Martin-Hajek-007.jpg
.
 

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