Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
The leak was only related to Xeons, the desktop parts are known to be available this summer for quite a while.
2017 has been discussed, and was the logical time, but there was no real confirmation, although this leak should also be taken with a grain of salt.
What I was hoping to see before this was C620 or something in between with PCIe 3 instead of PCIe 2 in C610.
Hoping to take advantage of the newer drives awesome performance, till the last drop.
I'm curious about that Kaby Lake PCH.
And TB3, to be able to drive the coming Apple 5K panel, if ever :-(
But those 48 lanes PCIe 4 are only for Lewisburg PCH, we still get 40.
 
No, you can't have more than 4 GB of HBM in first iteration of this technology.

You can have MAX 4 stacks of 1 GB with 128 GB/s at specific clocks per one stack.

All in All I think its good idea just to get updated Hawaii with 8GB or GDDR5 VRAM and put it into MP, and wait for new technology from AMD and Intel to go next.
 
SK Hynix has a dual link interposer called 8-hi-hi, that can manage 2 layers of 4GB.

----------

Seems like SkyLake really is a big jump in IPC, comparable to the jump from P4 to Core series.
Rumours of MorphCore, same base core for all CPUs.
 
SK Hynix has a dual link interposer called 8-hi-hi, that can manage 2 layers of 4GB.

----------

Seems like SkyLake really is a big jump in IPC, comparable to the jump from P4 to Core series.
Rumours of MorphCore, same base core for all CPUs.

You read WCCFTech, don't you? ;).

Explain to me this. Why people from AMD, who worked at HBM in interviews say that 4 GB is the limit for HBM1?
 
10GbE is not optional....

P.S. The 2017 for Xeon E5 v5 isn't really new news. The interesting tidbit on that slide deck is far more so that the one socket solution is targeted to get its own chipset. 1S ( Basin Falls ) is not the same "Platform" as 2S (Purley ). A divergence between X5 1xxx v5 and X5 2xxxx v5 is coming at skylake. That Basin Falls is in the planning stages means probably not in the first three quarters of 2017 and could slide into 2018 if there are glitches.


It makes some sense since workstations don't need Omni Path (and may not step up to 10GbE). Especially the Core i7 x9xx variants that are based on the same base design.

Probably yet another contributing reason why Apple dropped 2 socket solutions.

Other major new nugget is that it appears they punted on PCIe v4 on the CPU package. The consolation prize is 8 more PCIe v3 lanes to 48. Enough to split and drive two x4 PCIe v3 SSDs.

Every workstation that we get has a 10GbE card included. NAS over 1GbE is no longer feasible - our whole shop is 10GbE based.

I was really surprised that Apple didn't go with 10GbE on the MP6,1.
 
Last edited:
That "Apple is really strung up by slow progress of video interconnects and chipset support" is simply ridiculous. The current ACD is essentially an iMac screen in an iMac case with enough of a power supply and electronics to port USB2, audio, Ethernet and Thunderbolt back through TB1 to the host computer.

It sounds like your argument is that Apple could have modernized the accessory features of their existing non-Retina, which I can't argue with at all. Personally, that stuff matters to me very little -- I just want great 4/5/6K panels.

Additionally no one has every owned an Xmac because the often wished for and occasionally rumored Xmac has never been produced. Many certainly would have purchased one if the architecture was enthusiast-oriented and the prices reasonable. I myself would have preferred an Xmac to either a mini or a Mac Pro.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the Xserve :D I would love to see something between the Mac Mini and Mac Pro. Maybe now that Apple has brought back the "MacBook", they will also bring back the "Mac"!
 
Sorry, but forget it. I wish it would be true. Apple is now on a different level.

One can dream. I think I'm just going to go ahead and pull the trigger on a 6-core 2013 Mac Pro. WWDC is within the return window now, if they introduce something better.
 
Every workstation that we get has a 10GbE card included. NAS over 1GbE is no longer feasible - our whole shop is 10GbE based.

I was really surprised that Apple didn't go with 10GbE on the MP6,1.

Your shop has a ton of money to spend on network infrastructure. 10GbE still carry a price premium ( and no cards lacking a physical connector, without transceiver like SFP, don't really count. ). Getting closer to point were volume is hopefully start driving prices down.


Three Thunderbolt controllers and a x4 PCIe SSD flushed 10GbE down the drain as far as provisioning internal to the MP6,1. When there is a bigger PCIe bandwidth budget, we'll see if Apple is still committed to turn of the century Ethernet speeds.
 
Don't know if it's been mentioned OR if it means anything but I've been tracking the apple refurb site for mac pros for the past few weeks and there has always been some kind of stock in the build to order versions... upon checking the past few days there has been nothing but the stock configurations available. Maybe they really don't have anything but the stock versions but maybe this points to an upcoming refresh of the mac pro soon?
 
SK Hynix has a dual link interposer called 8-hi-hi, that can manage 2 layers of 4GB.

8hi is 8 dies stacked.

1. Do you get to keep all the bandwidth with the increase in distance ?

HBM is going extremely wide ( parallel ) instead of faster (and mostly serial). Wider paths all have to stay synchronized in flow.

2. At what cost?

"... It could also simply be down to cost. HBM, while cheaper than rival stacked memory technology Hybrid Memory Cube (HMC), is still likely to be pricier than the equivalent DRAM, making eight stacks impractical. ... "
http://arstechnica.com/information-...nfirms-4gb-limit-for-first-hbm-graphics-card/

The cost is probably going up. Not just because more dies but the interconnect complexity is higher ( 4 more paths from the 4 additional layers down through stack and into the interposer layer and package substrate.

8hi is coming in later standarization. It would be far less risky though to just get this out the door. It is Generation 1 technology. There are bound to be hiccups in production ramping. 8hi would just be more risky in both complexity and "clean up" costs.



Seems like SkyLake really is a big jump in IPC, comparable to the jump from P4 to Core series.

Where does that come from. The slide deck you point to claims better performance per watt. higher memory bandwidth. The first should allow them to pack more cores into the package. The second basically allows them to keep those cores fed with data/instructions.

AVX-512 could be counted toward higher IPC if count the parallel instructions implicit in the vector processing. But that isn't going to help the folks who want to run legacy code faster.

The biggest change since Nehalem is really about the being similar to the big bandwidth change at Nehalem uncorking the performance can get if really run that many cores in parallel. The single point prior to Nehalem was a chokepoint. On extremely parallel stuff 4 cores of Nehalem cores could approach 8 cores previous generation. That is in part because the previous ones were throttled.

Skylake looks to be far more attuned to a era where there is a relatively large amount of data on PCIe SSDs, substantially larger RAM (in memory databases ), and the inflow/outflow can be much higher if grid the data and attack it with double digits number of cores.


Rumours of MorphCore, same base core for all CPUs.

Errrrrr, probably not. The WCC site sells a lot of kool-aid that is primarily only good for generating ads page views far more than being based on reality.


ttp://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/04/22/intel-corporations-skylake-morphcore-and-unrealist.aspx

While the Xeon E5 implementation of Skylake could be a tweaked from what was in the mainstream line up.... that is a bit of a huge tweak.


I suspect more along the lines if don't need the AVX-512 subsystem it can be shut off and that power shifted over to "turbo mode" the function units that are left. e.g., when running single threaded, even more of the sub function units in the core are turned off till have just the subset "drag racing" on. The core doesn't morph it is just a bigger core. Bigger transistor budget means can lots stuff not really using present ( but you pay for). All of that will probably get "more performance per Watt" which is exactly what Intel is claiming.

The same "turn stuff off you are not using" works on the desktop/laptop designs which have fewer power hogs internally.

MorphCore I would more expect to see in next iteration of Xeon Phi after Knights Landing. Phi got AVX-512 before (well kind of before rollout delays) the rest and MorphCore is a more natural fit there and probably a better match to compete with the GPGPU competitors.

The "lash stuff up as vector units" and then unconnect them to do high thread counts has been played with before.
 
I submit to you that you will not see a new Mac Pro anytime soon for the same reason that ..... or an updated ACD using the current standard def iMac display and offering USB3 ports.

Facts don't really support some very active pure display peripheral passion for over a decade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Cinema_Display#Technical_specifications

Sure the early 2000's ( 2000-2003) saw some rapid moves in displays but after that Apple was never in a big hurry.

2004 products. ( 3 years before iPhone showed up)

20" 2004 --> retired 2009 5 years.
23" 2004 --> retired 2008 4 years.
30" 2004 --> retired 2010 6 years.

this was followed by the switch to docking stations (with attached Magsafe).

2008->2010 fo the 24" and 2010-2013 for 27"

Dropped down to one model at a time. Pragmatically dropped out being in the "displays" business around 2010 ... 5 years ago. That had far more to do with pricing trends and commodization of the display market than the appearance of the iPad.


As for ....
you won't see a really powerful Mac mini, a 17in MacBook Pro, an enthusiast-oriented Xmac/midi

Apple never intended the Mini to be more than the entry level Mac. All the implementations up prior 2014 update mirrored MacBook and base configs of the MBPs. It was always a vehicle to sell a "headless" laptop.

There has always been a crowd that wanted to cheerlead it into being the XMac, but it never was and probably isn't going to be. That really shouldn't be surprising. And has diddly poo to do with iPhones or iPads since predates both.

Apple prayed at the box-with-slots alter all through the 90's and basically almost went bankrupt. Apple hasn't believed in commodity box-with-slots systems for almost 2 decades. Again diddly poo to with iOS devices.

MBP 17" the question is do you want more pixels or bigger pixels. The rMBP 15" is more. The 17" represents bigger and heavier pixels.

The observable truth is that Apple just does not care about that stuff anymore. It has become a rich telephone company that sells great mid-level computers, fashion accessories and ghetto headphones.


Closer to the truth is that the Mac business is bigger now than before. It is smaller only relative to the iOS stuff ( saw a recent chart that suggests there are more iPhone 5s deployed all by itself than entire Mac product base currently deployed. )

Apple is in no way shape or form a telephone company. Still selling personal computers, they are just smaller computers. Apple just isn't deeply weeded to a "personal computer" is completely equated with a form factor defined in the 80's.

If all Beats had was headphones they never would have bought them. Let alone pay that much. The headphones have a pretty high chance of ending up like the iPods ..... comatose after the cash cow has been throughly milked in about 3 years.

The Mac Pro probably is more of a "hobby" project at this point. They care enough that it still exists. But they aren't going to rapidly churn the product development wheel. ( I would surprised if there was a "boots on the ground" R&D team assigned to it full time. Basically staffed as needed by borrowing from other product's staff. )
 
What I was hoping to see before this was C620 or something in between with PCIe 3 instead of PCIe 2 in C610.

In the workstation/server class the chipset stays the same for the whole tick-tock cycle. If the socket stays the same v3-v4 (tock-tick ) then there is no magical way the PCH is going to have a bigger bandwidth budget.



And TB3, to be able to drive the coming Apple 5K panel, if ever :-(

There is not need for TB3 in running the 5K panel that Apple is actively shipping now. Not particularly any different for a Mac Pro.


But those 48 lanes PCIe 4 are only for Lewisburg PCH, we still get 40.

Even the mainstream Gen 6 (Skylake) are projected to get a bump in PCIe v3 lanes. Even if passed through the PCH for fan effect with the "free switch" (and/or "free SAS controller" ) there are still there.

I'd be surprised if stayed at 40. E5 v1 (Sandy Bridge) has 40 PCIe v3 lanes. That's two tick-tock cycles at the same bandwidth. To go into a third cycle stuck at the same limit would be highly peculiar. Coupled with the vast increase in consumers ( ( NVMe SSDs, > or equal to 10GbE , Thunderbolt , GPGPU cards , etc. ). An incremental bump will keep them in front of AMD.

If the PCH doesn't consume the extra 4 then should be easy to attach some x4 device to it. E5 2xxx v5 will have the 48 so a 48 lane PCIe function unit will be readily available. Why design another? Besides they have the goofy E5 2400 vX line up that turns off some lanes for a cheaper price. Unless it is 40 to be incrementally cheaper not buying much with tossing out what already had to do anyway.
 
Just figured it out!

The small circles around the edge are new Apple TV units.

The small rounded-off squares around the edge are the new, smaller (and suckier) Mac minis.

The large circles intersecting with the center are the upgraded Mac Pro 6,1 computers.

The large rounded-off square in the center is the new, user-configurable Mac Pro tower 7,1 offering dual CPUs, SATA3 ports for three 2.5" drives, a PCIe SSD slot and PCIe slots as well as eight RAM slots.

Man have I got problems!:rolleyes:

Yes, I thought more or less the same when I saw the invitation. Circles could be Mac Pro, squares are definitely Apple TV...the rest, no idea really
 
MBP 17" the question is do you want more pixels or bigger pixels. The rMBP 15" is more. The 17" represents bigger and heavier pixels.

Yes, and I think the discontinuing the 17" was the pragmatic reality of that. The 17" used to be the flagship device, but not the highest seller. They were rolling out a 15" device that beat the current 15" in quality and 17" in pixel density.

I owned a first gen rMBP, and they had issues. They were clearly barely ready for the masses. There is no way they could have launched a 17" in volume at the same time, and the price would have had to be astronomical.

However, the 15" rMBP is their best seller with pros. There is room to stretch upmarket, even though high res displays are becoming more commoditized. This is the main reason I think a 16" or 17" in inevitable in the next redesign. Apple needs a device that can stretch the base laptop price above $2,500.
 
The best thing about the cMBP was being able to pop out the optical drive and install a second HD. That and matte screen options.
 
The best thing about the cMBP was being able to pop out the optical drive and install a second HD. That and matte screen options.

OK, that was a thing when SSD prices were astronomical.

While I used to be a matte screen supporter, the coating on new Mac displays is much better than old glossy displays, and the glass glossy screens are much better for keeping away scratches, fingerprints, and other damage.
 
It will always be a "thing." I don't like to have my projects and work files on my boot drive. 2TB SSD prices are still pretty "astronomical."

You are right about large SSD pricing. I personally find portable external USB 3.0 drives to be a pretty practical solution.

I guess what I was trying to say in my first message is that I'd rather see SSDs get large and cheap then go back to a bulky laptop with a hacked storage solution =)

I will say, I don't really understand the desire to keep content off the boot drive.
 
I will say, I don't really understand the desire to keep content off the boot drive.

I do video, and RED. I need large drives to keep stuff on and edit from. You should never use your boot drive for scratch. It's always good practice to have a separate drive for boot and apps only. It just keeps things neat and running smoothly.

This may not be an issue for most people, but for guys like me it's pretty standard.

My biggest complaint about the rMBP is that I can't put a second drive into it. Thunderbolt ruined the idea of internal expansion. I would kill it with fire to get it back. It's also a pretty huge step backwards on desktops considering PCI 3.0 is like 4x faster than Thunderbolt.
 
The best thing about the cMBP was being able to pop out the optical drive and install a second HD. That and matte screen options.

relative to the glossy, the matte screens had worse contrast. I liked the antiglare and extra resolution, but it was really an inferior screen.
 
OK, that was a thing when SSD prices were astronomical.

While I used to be a matte screen supporter, the coating on new Mac displays is much better than old glossy displays, and the glass glossy screens are much better for keeping away scratches, fingerprints, and other damage.
Too bad the rMBP screens don't have glass covers like the old non-retina MBP displays did -- the new ones certainly scratch more easily.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.