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Having had a 2010 mid $4k 5,1 and now a mid $5k 5,1 I don't thing I could buy another Mac Pro. I just got an HP Z230 tower for my lighter-duty Windows needs. At about $1600 it has turned out to be a really great computer.

Even though the HP only has a quad 3.6GHz i6, 16GB RAM and an entry-level Quadro K620 GPU it outpaces my six core 3.46, 24 GB RAM HD 5770 2012 MP. Plus I don't have to screw around with PC GPUs, kinky USB3 cards and the rest of that silliness.

I still love my Mac Pro but for $4,000 I would get a heck of a Z4400 for the same price. Just sayin...

I don't see that fiery passion for computers anymore over at Apple and therefore do not think they are interested enough in the tower computer market to attempt to stay current with Dell and HP.
 
I love my 4,1 and I've upgraded it about half a dozen times over the years. I'm even getting a new PCI card to stick in it this next week and I'm considering a PCI SSD for a boot disk. Running 10.6.8, it is the greatest computer I've ever owned if you ignore specs and just look at reliability, power-longevity, and design. I've had uptimes you would not believe unless you've owned one yourself. Nothing's ever broken except one after-market 3rd party part. It's a joy to tinker around inside it. It stays quiet and cool even under moderately heavy workloads. There's so much you can do with it to upgrade and it can still crunch numbers like a beast. It will be a very sad day when it finally succumbs to age.

That said it's a 6 year old computer and I need to upgrade, soon. I was going to upgrade last year but the nMP was not what I was hoping for, and I didn't want to be an early adopter for a brand new Mac.

Too much of what I do depends on OS X so I'm not going to Dell or HP for a new workstation. Linux has its appeals but unless OS X goes really off the rails in the next version I don't have much interest. The nMP is not the computer I want, but it is the computer I need.

I'm just really hoping Apple is smart enough to realize a lot of us are waiting for the second model, and they give us something this year even if the CPU performance isn't that much better than the first model. They need to win over 4,1 and 5,1 users, not 6,1 users. Give us a little bump, stick some newer GPUs and a faster/larger SSD (or two) in the tube, and we'll buy it.
 
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I'm interested in the nMP v2 even though I'd require nothing short of a windfall to get the model I want!

I think anyone that can hold out will get a much better deal with the inevitable rev 2. That's just how Apple operates.

I'd like to see max internal storage increase up to 2 TB and a better deal on internal storage. I don't go anywhere near pushing 64 GB RAM so that doesn't bother me, though I understand it may some! :)

The one that really bothered me from the original was the lack of a dedicated Toslink optical audio port, so I'd really like to see that come back. I know pro audio interfaces are mainly going USB now but there are some who still like or need optical and the crappy dual purpose analogue/digital 3.5 mm port from the laptops is not very robust or professional. Sorry Apple but it isn't. They can easily fit a dedicated optical Toslink port as well.

Any upgrades on the GPUs are more than welcome also.

That and cheaper prices all around! Though I did just get some uni tutoring work so that would qualify me for the edu discount! :)
 
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I love my 4,1 and I've upgraded it about half a dozen times over the years. I'm even getting a new PCI card to stick in it this next week and I'm considering a PCI SSD for a boot disk. Running 10.6.8, it is the greatest computer I've ever owned if you ignore specs and just look at reliability, power-longevity, and design. I've had uptimes you would not believe unless you've owned one yourself. Nothing's ever broken except one after-market 3rd party part. It's a joy to tinker around inside it. It stays quiet and cool even under moderately heavy workloads. There's so much you can do with it to upgrade and it can still crunch numbers like a beast. It will be a very sad day when it finally succumbs to age.

That said it's a 6 year old computer..
I could say exactly the same about the 7 year old dual CPU Mac Pro 3,1s. that I bought for my wife & I back in 2008. They are still going strong & have been such workhorses & so reliable (just one power supply has needed replacing). I have upgraded them about as much as is possible with value for money in mind (32GB 667MHz FB-DIMMs, GTX570, PCIe SSD, USB3). They have been used for real paid for video editing & web development & paid for themselves many times over.

My work has changed & I really don't need a computer any more powerful than my current system. Rather like my old car (15 year old Audi A6 with 205K miles) I suspect that I will keep this system until something dies & the cost of repair is uneconomic. I will then have the excuse to get a dual 6-core 3.46GHz 5,1 which compared to the 3.2GHz 3,1 is not only 2x the performance per single CPU core but also has 50% more cores.
 
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Sync, 390X is Grenada (former Hawaii) based, no HBM on it. Fury will come with HBM.
koyoot, I understand what you're saying, of course. And you are indeed an informed person.
But every new GPU is somewhat based on prior tech, with a few modifications, sometimes with large overhauls. But it's still presented as a new GPU.
If there are, and I hope so, some changes to the cores, revised GCN tech to match Tonga if you will, I think we can call it a different GPU.
But if it's only process related tweaks, lower leakage do you think it warrants a new name?
And if Fiji is based off Tonga, the same as Grenada and the "newer" GPUs, with GCN 1.2, so they should all still be in the same island cluster, right? Nothing is really new actually, still all GCN 1.2 as already deployed in the last (Tonga) generation, only Hawaii goes Grenada and get 1.2, so it should be named after another volcanic island instead.
My 2cents...
 
Sync, 390X is Grenada (former Hawaii) based, no HBM on it. Fury will come with HBM.
koyoot, I understand what you're saying, of course. And you are indeed an informed person.
But every new GPU is somewhat based on prior tech, with a few modifications, sometimes with large overhauls. But it's still presented as a new GPU.
If there are, and I hope so, some changes to the cores, revised GCN tech to match Tonga if you will, I think we can call it a different GPU.
But if it's only process related tweaks, lower leakage do you think it warrants a new name?
And if Fiji is based off Tonga, the same as Grenada and the "newer" GPUs, with GCN 1.2, so they should all still be in the same island cluster, right? Nothing is really new actually, still all GCN 1.2 as already deployed in the last (Tonga) generation, only Hawaii goes Grenada and get 1.2, so it should be named after another volcanic island instead.
My 2cents...

GPU on new Process is a completely new GPU, even if it has the same nm process, and the same or similar core count to the former.

Hawaii made on 28 nm Process from GlobalFoundries instead of TSMC is completely new chip.

Also as a fun fact, Hawaii with TSMC's process was capable of running at 145W of TDP with 850 MHz core clock at power Virus situation. In gaming it was at 925 MHz. https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20880421/

With new process it can ONLY be way better. Imagine this. With GloFo process, Grenada can handle 1050 MHz core clock at less 250W of TDP. Not impressive? But the scaling would be similar to Hawaii. So 93% of performance at less than 125W of TDP.

Also that should be a little symptomatic, because Tonga(2048 GCN core chip) in Mobile will now be R9 385M. There will be room in nomenclature for two, bigger parts from AMD.

THAT is impressive.
 
I wouldn't say it's a new GPU, if only on a new process, but I don't want to disagree with you :)
Maybe you are right, better performance and lower power draw might actually be enough for a new name, although I believe you should only call it a refinement or revision.
Let's hope the power consumption really comes way down.
 
The thunderbolt 3 USB-c announcement is making a 2015 Mac Pro look more likely.

We still need chipsets/cpu to drive this new technology and those stuff will most likely arrive early 2016. Still hard to tell. =/
 
Yeah, given this stuff won't be shipping for 6 months, the possibility for WWDC is that either:
  1. Apple announces an update that doesn't support any of this stuff, which confuses everyone.
  2. Introduces some sort of custom silicon that lets them support this on existing chipsets, which Apple would like because it beats everyone else by more than 6 months but wouldn't like because it's a big custom R&D expense.
  3. Pre-announces a new system, which stalls a lot of sales of current machines, but they value the PR value over the lost revenues.
Both 2 and 3 are possible because Apple never really cares about keeping pace on specs but will sometimes splurge on "only Apple" leapfrog opportunities. These are all longshots though.
 
Yeah, given this stuff won't be shipping for 6 months, the possibility for WWDC is that either:
  1. Apple announces an update that doesn't support any of this stuff, which confuses everyone.
  2. Introduces some sort of custom silicon that lets them support this on existing chipsets, which Apple would like because it beats everyone else by more than 6 months but wouldn't like because it's a big custom R&D expense.
  3. Pre-announces a new system, which stalls a lot of sales of current machines, but they value the PR value over the lost revenues.
Both 2 and 3 are possible because Apple never really cares about keeping pace on specs but will sometimes splurge on "only Apple" leapfrog opportunities. These are all longshots though.

Its only a matter of when Apple can get Intel's thunderbolt controller. Apple only designs their own custom motherboards using intel's CPUs, chipset, thunderbolt controller, etc. The only question is when Intel says that availability is late 2015, if that means that they aren't going to be mass produced until then, or Apple gets them now and everyone else gets them late 2015.
 
Yeah, given this stuff won't be shipping for 6 months, the possibility for WWDC is that either:
  1. Apple announces an update that doesn't support any of this stuff, which confuses everyone.
  2. Introduces some sort of custom silicon that lets them support this on existing chipsets, which Apple would like because it beats everyone else by more than 6 months but wouldn't like because it's a big custom R&D expense.
  3. Pre-announces a new system, which stalls a lot of sales of current machines, but they value the PR value over the lost revenues.
Both 2 and 3 are possible because Apple never really cares about keeping pace on specs but will sometimes splurge on "only Apple" leapfrog opportunities. These are all longshots though.


The other possibility is that there is zero announcement and we're all still left in the dark, as per usual.
 
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Its only a matter of when Apple can get Intel's thunderbolt controller.

Not only. Late Fall (Nov Dec) is far too close to Jan-Feb 2016 and the arrival of the Xeon E5 v4. If going to saddle the Mac Pro update with TB v3, you might as well wait until 2016 when Intel says they will have TB v3 in volume production.

Also the same constraints laid on the 2013 Mac Pro that slid it past using the Xeon E5 v1. If had gone with TB v1 they could have moved quicker (e.g., very early in 2013 when had to withdraw the Mac Pro from the market in the EU ).


The only question is when Intel says that availability is late 2015, if that means that they aren't going to be mass produced until then, or Apple gets them now and everyone else gets them late 2015.

No. What Intel has quoted is that volume isn't until 2016. If Apple gets them "early" that is relatively late 2015.
"... Intel expects the first Thunderbolt 3 products to start shipping by the end of the year and to hit their stride in 2016. ... "
http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-computex-2015

There is a decent chance Apple is going to tweak the MBP in late 2015 as the new Skylake laptop CPU packages ships. Those are the natural fit with TB. If Intel is in limited volume TB production then the MBP ( and maybe MacBook which is currently lacking TB completely) may suck up all that is available.

Mac Pro can wait.... if blown way past a 12 month update then a 24 month update isn't that much worse. Given the really bad match of supply to demand the last time the Mac Pro shipped waiting until Jan is probably better as will probably have parts and can ramp up longer.
 
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Not only. Late Fall (Nov Dec) is far too close to Jan-Feb 2016 and the arrival of the Xeon E5 v4. If going to saddle the Mac Pro update with TB v3, you might as well wait until 2016 when Intel says they will have TB v3 in volume production.

Also the same constraints laid on the 2013 Mac Pro that slid it past using the Xeon E5 v1. If had gone with TB v1 they could have moved quicker (e.g., very early in 2013 when had to withdraw the Mac Pro from the market in the EU ).




No. What Intel has quoted is that volume isn't until 2016. If Apple gets them "early" that is relatively late 2015.
"... Intel expects the first Thunderbolt 3 products to start shipping by the end of the year and to hit their stride in 2016. ... "
http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/2/8704067/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-computex-2015

There is a decent chance Apple is going to tweak the MBP in late 2015 as the new Skylake laptop CPU packages ships. Those are the natural fit with TB. If Intel is in limited volume TB production then the MBP ( and maybe MacBook which is currently lacking TB completely) may suck up all that is available.

Mac Pro can wait.... if blown way past a 12 month update then a 24 month update isn't that much worse. Given the really bad match of supply to demand the last time the Mac Pro shipped waiting until Jan is probably better as will probably have parts and can ramp up longer.

Yeah, unfortunately you are probably correct. Its tough to see Apple putting out a new Mac Pro with thunderbolt 3 so close on the horizon. They can wait until early 2016, get Broadwell, thunderbolt 3, and wait for AMD to get any issues with its newest GPUs ironed out. Plus the current Mac Pro wasn't actually released until late 2013/early 2014. Its not like 2 year refreshes are unheard of for the mac pro.
 
The Mac Pro has only be very rarely linked to WWDC ( June) announcements. There is no good reason to think it will be highly coupled to this one. The 'clock' on the time to next update for the Mac Pro late 2013 started in late 2013 ... not mid 2013. In June-Sept of 2013 Apple wasn't done with the 2013 model. It is extremely unlikely they started on the next one on or before they shipped.




Yeah, given this stuff won't be shipping for 6 months, the possibility for WWDC is that either:
  1. Apple announces an update that doesn't support any of this stuff, which confuses everyone.
Not necessarily. If they just speed bumped the GPUs and starting offering "return to the mothership" GPU upgrades for a price. I suspect there would be a decent number of folks who would buy. Especially if the 'wait until 2016" is really toward the end of the first Quarter as opposed to the very beginning.

2Introduces some sort of custom silicon that lets them support this on existing chipsets, which Apple would like because it beats everyone else by more than 6 months but wouldn't like because it's a big custom R&D expenses

Not likely at all. Despite the "can't innovate may ass" declaration about the Mac Pro it is pretty conservative in terms of the internal components. The composition of the components is novel but the actual component choice is hardly bleeding edge. Apple went with 2nd half of tick-tock cycle CPU with more than well known chipset. More than well known GPUs. Mainstream USB controller. Reasonably mature PCIe switch.... etc etc.

Pre-announces a new system, which stalls a lot of sales of current machines, but they value the PR value over the lost revenues.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. None. PR value is something that will increase sales now if not later.
The WWDC 2013 "technology preview" was far more about the end of life for the 2009-2012 design far more than something new. Apple typically stops selling the old model when the new one shipped. Apple was giving notice to those who absolutely needed a "box with slots" that they only had several months to go to get their purchase orders in. The old and new didn't 100% overlap in targeted customer coverage. There was probably a increase bump in 2012 model sales after the announcement before dying back down to whatever deeply repressed levels they were already at. Short term that announcement probably did not hurt sales, it helped them.

A "very late 2015" or "early 2016" update has about the same targeted market as the "late 2013" one. To invoke extra early is only to invoke the Osborne Effect of lost sales. Folks who need a workstation now to get work done who are used to "box with slots" approach as about as likely to bolt to Dell , HP, Lenovo as to wait.

There would be some marginal PR value is were stalling folks from moving to a competitor because they were going to announce something new. I don't see it. If HP , Dell , etc announce have new GPUs now and Apple says ... it will be around 6 months... there is not much upside to that. HP , Dell, etc. have already moved past Apple on CPU ( Xeon E5 v3 ) and GPUs (newer Pro GPUs last summer and all the mainstream consumer updates that have come since late 2013). What is coming in the next 1-2 months is just how much further behind Apple is if they don't move.


A marginal PR win Apple could do would be a speed bump. A "We are still working on Mac Pro" signal. Where Apple is loosing in PR is that they wonder off and do nothing for 2, 3, 4 years at a time. Is there a full time team working on the Mac Pro at all anymore? Or is it some hobby they do in their spare time? This is a 600+ post thread that is filled with doubts Apple is doing anything. That is a problem.


There is a weak gimmick where Apple in that represses the Mac Pro demand so much that they generate another demand bubble at the next upgrade when then factory output is significantly lower than initial demand. There is another round of folks up late ordering at 3 a.m. (or worse) when the store flips open and months long waits for backorders when order at a normal hour or a day or two later when can test drive the models.
 
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I am still using my 4,1->5,1 Mac Pro with Quad 3.33GHZ, GTX 970, 32GB RAM and have had a great time with it. When the new Mac Pro was announced I was excited to get it. But I just can't see spending the money yet. I would assume there will be no nMP announcement any time soon, though I would love to see one come this year. I do like the new design and from what I've used of the base model, they are pretty nice.
 
There's been some good debate in this thread. I still say the nMP wasn't meant to be the oMP. That means this was supposed to be something different from HP and Dell. I think it fills a nice market gap.
 
Hmmm, it turns out that Thunderbolt 3 does not support DisplayPort 1.3, only 1.2.
 
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Has there been any consensus on the sales of the 2013 model being a success or enough of a failure that we might expect a redesign (if not with 2015 model maybe sometime after)?

I'd like to see some standard gfx cards and some room for an additional internal hard drive (but maybe I'm holding onto a dream and need to seriously consider windows at this point).
 
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I love my 4,1 and I've upgraded it about half a dozen times over the years. I'm even getting a new PCI card to stick in it this next week and I'm considering a PCI SSD for a boot disk. Running 10.6.8, it is the greatest computer I've ever owned if you ignore specs and just look at reliability, power-longevity, and design. I've had uptimes you would not believe unless you've owned one yourself. Nothing's ever broken except one after-market 3rd party part. It's a joy to tinker around inside it. It stays quiet and cool even under moderately heavy workloads. There's so much you can do with it to upgrade and it can still crunch numbers like a beast. It will be a very sad day when it finally succumbs to age.

That said it's a 6 year old computer and I need to upgrade, soon. I was going to upgrade last year but the nMP was not what I was hoping for, and I didn't want to be an early adopter for a brand new Mac.

Too much of what I do depends on OS X so I'm not going to Dell or HP for a new workstation. Linux has its appeals but unless OS X goes really off the rails in the next version I don't have much interest. The nMP is not the computer I want, but it is the computer I need.

I'm just really hoping Apple is smart enough to realize a lot of us are waiting for the second model, and they give us something this year even if the CPU performance isn't that much better than the first model. They need to win over 4,1 and 5,1 users, not 6,1 users. Give us a little bump, stick some newer GPUs and a faster/larger SSD (or two) in the tube, and we'll buy it.
Somehow you have managed to read my mind.
 
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I can't see an nMP v2 before early 2016.
Anyone who absolutely needs to be on the bleeding hardware age more than they need OS X are probably already on HP / Dell workstations.

My quad core nMP does what I need with power to spare and the 64 gig of RAM comes in handy.
My only requirement would be larger internal storage and I'm hoping an upgrade is made available at some point.
 
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