Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015?

[ManuelGomes]

OK, the 30k units was indeed great but after that I heard of nothing more. On the contrary, for plain Fury only Asus and Sapphire had designs and very limited supply. Now, more AIBs are releasing cards, maybe it's all good now.

I remember, wasn't that the TIM issue?

 

[Stacc]

I scrapped D510 (because D500's advantage to D300 was small) and put D310 instead. Coupled with 3.5GHz Haswell EP 4 core, they could drop entry price couple of hundred USD's. D310 would be just little better version of the current D300. Entry level needs to be crappy enough to tempt buyer to go to the more expensive model.

Tonga chips are actually quite good with power/perf ratio.. that's why it is there.

Tonga and Fiji are a bit more efficient than Hawaii, and given the power and thermal constraints, its certainly something Apple is interested in. My bet is on :

D310: Full Tonga (aka m295x) at 4 GB GDDR5
D510: Cut Fiji (aka Fury) at 4 GB HBM
D710: Full Fiji (aka Fury X/nano) at 4 GB HBM

Of course the DXXX names are arbitrary. A question is whether 4 GB of VRAM is good enough to call a "professional" card. Additionally, Tonga/Fiji are lacking in dual precision performance, commonly useful for compute workloads that the Mac Pro is targeted at. Otherwise we may see the FirePro version of Hawaii with better dual precision performance and more VRAM.

Its too difficult to try and guess pricing but I doubt Apple drops the cost of the entry level Mac Pro. While the current version is outdated and not a great buy compared to pc workstations, if it were updated, $3000 for a xeon processor, dual graphics cards and a SSD is a competitive starting point.

 

[koyoot]

About power constraints of Hawaii. It can run on 50% of nominal TDP at 85% of power. Which means R9 290X can be clocked at 850 MHz and run on only 145 W TDP.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/nmp-2015-where-is-it.1849662/page-8#post-20880421

Here is the proof.

P.S. About the prices. I don't believe it will be cheaper than it is right now.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Stacc, that was my guess but only Hawaii/Grenada (Pro and XT) instead of Fiji. 4GB on Pro cards won't cut it for Apple.
That would be going back on D700 with 6GB, not likely.
Would be great though.
Yes, both cards can be down clocked for way lower power consumption.

Cheaper is a word that does not exist in Apple's dictionary

 

[t0mat0]

Has there been any more word about Xeon E5 v4 CPUs? I'm assuming we might hear more at IDF in August in a few weeks, but would they contemplate just jumping to v4 and fully skip v3? The Purley roadmap seemed to indicate maybe Q1 2015 for v4...


Mac Pro "Quad Core" 3.7 (Late 2013)3.7 GHz Q. Core Xeon E5-1620v21
Mac Pro "Six Core" 3.5 (Late 2013)3.5 GHz 6 Core Xeon E5-1650v21
Mac Pro "Eight Core" 3.0 (Late 2013)3.0 GHz 8 Core Xeon E5-1680v21
Mac Pro "Twelve Core" 2.7 (Late 2013)2.7 GHz 12 Core Xeon E5-2697v2

 

[PunkNugget]

I don't think they'll wait until '16 either it's just too long without any action.

I hate saying it lowend, but I really believe that you're not going to see anything until last quarter 2015 or after the coming crash in the beginning of 2016. By then, no one will be able to afford it once this massive fiscal correction hits the states here...

 

[lowendlinux]

I hate saying it lowend, but I really believe that you're not going to see anything until last quarter 2015 or after the coming crash in the beginning of 2016. By then, no one will be able to afford it once this massive fiscal correction hits the states here...

I figure September or silent upgrade in October with the iStuff

 

[Zarniwoop]

Its too difficult to try and guess pricing but I doubt Apple drops the cost of the entry level Mac Pro. While the current version is outdated and not a great buy compared to pc workstations, if it were updated, $3000 for a xeon processor, dual graphics cards and a SSD is a competitive starting point.

Apple has quite often introduced a lower starting price option one or two generation later after the original release. Macbook Air, rMBP 15", iMac 27" retina.. all got cheaper entry models after 8-24 months.

 

[t0mat0]

Would they consider getting 2x GPU on one slot of the inner triangle of the Mac Pro (HBM AMD cards seems to have a space reduction with the HBM), so giving option of a 2xCPU, 2x lower powered GPU Mac?

 

[Zarniwoop]

Would they consider getting 2x GPU on one slot of the inner triangle of the Mac Pro (HBM AMD cards seems to have a space reduction with the HBM), so giving option of a 2xCPU, 2x lower powered GPU Mac?

They'd need beefier PSU and cooling system for that..water cooling perhaps?

 

[ManuelGomes]

t0mat0, it seems v4 (Broadwell) was DOA, cancelled by Intel.
Next nMP will be v3 (Haswell) based.
Confirmation from Intel is still absent but all points in that direction it seems.
Skylake (v5) is still far from being launched.
Intel roadmaps are changing a lot lately, we can't really rely on it very much now.
I guess Apple was notified of those changes, maybe when it's officially confirmed a new model will come.
Still, my guess is either October or early 2016, most likely the latter.
And Purley seems to be directed for servers only now, the nMP at the time will be based on the 1600 family most certainly, for 1S workstations. Apple won't do 2S or more workstation anymore, apparently.
Forget about dual CPU and single card dual Fiji, guess that won't happen ever. Possible, but unlikely.
They would have to lower GPU speeds a lot, to fit the available power. Another CPU could be another up to 160W or so, depending on CPU model.
And otherwise one side of the triangle would be unbalanced with more heat, from the GPUs, even if more power was available

 

[ManuelGomes]

Xeon Phi looks promising when it comes to yields, wonder why Intel is really ditching 14nm Xeons right now.
Maybe not enough production for all different products?

 

[ManuelGomes]

Apple Store is down, rumors suggest a new iPod? Could it be something else? Just kidding...

 

[kinless]

Ruh roh...

http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...ll-chips-to-speed-up-arrival-of-xeon-skylake/

I hope that's just referring to the server chips and not the workstation variants. Intel's already thrown one wrench in the mix this week with an additional 14nm generation to their line-up (Kaby Lake), and now I read this.

What's your deal, Intel? Gonna make me run this 2008 Mac Pro into the ground, are ya?

 

[ManuelGomes]

Broadwell is "only" a small update to Haswell, Intel might not want to spend any more doh on it and wait for Skylake instead. Still, not sure it will speed up SKL, probably not.
I'd say all -E, -EP and -EX will be cancelled, only a few SKUs out anyway.

Read this one too, with SKL advancements:

http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...s-to-support-6tb-of-dram-use-3467-pin-socket/

This all was more or less detailed on the roadmap.
Still, seems impressive.
But this is for servers and HPC.
For 1S workstations it's another story...

 

[ManuelGomes]

Shoot, just realized that Apple raised the prices in the store once again.
Base price and SSD went up again.
Are these people mad?

 

[koyoot]

Manuel, I don't see any changes here in Poland in pricing.

 

[lowendlinux]

It's the same in the US Store and the German Store

 

[ManuelGomes]

Here in Portugal the base 4core just went up to 3500,26€ and the 6core to 4700,26€.
Odd prices.
Also, MacBook, MacBook Pro and iMacs gone up.

 

[t0mat0]

t0mat0, it seems v4 (Broadwell) was DOA, cancelled by Intel.
Next nMP will be v3 (Haswell) based.
Confirmation from Intel is still absent but all points in that direction it seems.
Skylake (v5) is still far from being launched.
Intel roadmaps are changing a lot lately, we can't really rely on it very much now.
I guess Apple was notified of those changes, maybe when it's officially confirmed a new model will come.
Still, my guess is either October or early 2016, most likely the latter.
And Purley seems to be directed for servers only now, the nMP at the time will be based on the 1600 family most certainly, for 1S workstations. Apple won't do 2S or more workstation anymore, apparently.
Forget about dual CPU and single card dual Fiji, guess that won't happen ever. Possible, but unlikely.
They would have to lower GPU speeds a lot, to fit the available power. Another CPU could be another up to 160W or so, depending on CPU model.
And otherwise one side of the triangle would be unbalanced with more heat, from the GPUs, even if more power was available

We've seen big gaps between updates from Apple before but this would be a big one. What Intel is planning for v4 isn't yet clear - if they've cut v4 out - the attached roadmap seems like it'll have a
year and a half hole in it. Even if they could bring Purley forward - when was the last time Intel was early for a release vs delays for the next product to be launched delaying future products down the line too?
From the roadmap - the 1S for Skylake is in planning and separate form the Purley platform. If Intel didn't complete stop E5-1600 v4 product family, couldn't Apple use those? A lot of the Purley features don't seem as relevant to a 1S workstation, but that is 2+ years out.

The nMac Pro cut out a specific niche (and due to being 1xCPU, 2xGPU vs dual CPU they were less appealing to certain other markets). The update will be more telling as to where they want to take the Mac Pro. (Intel's Purley plans loom in the future - they're going to be wrestling with the Altera deal for a while). Do they stay with the current CPU GPU combo that caters best for video workstation work? Only now can the Mac Pro in Metal actually resolve/identify between the 2 GPUs, so they've got a way to go. With 1x CPU, the Mac Pro isn't on a par with other rival workstations for CPU intensive/bound work (3d rendering, visual effects work for example).* They're passing OpenCL, and pushing Metal, at least that direction is clear.

Apple selling newer (FirePro?) GPU cards that could swap out the current ones would be another indication they mean business.

With HMB version of FirePro cards, would they be able to put 2 on one slot? It'd be nerfed for performance from the TDP limit for one slot - but it could free up a slot for another CPU?
Say the CPU and each FirePro GPU can have a TDP of ~130W per slot, could you get 2x 1/2 sized GPU both running up to 60-70W each, and then have 2x 130W CPU? The Mac Pro can already manage power draw by throttling (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/14) but in the Anandtech review - it took a decent workload on both GPU and CPU to see throttling. Does seem that thermal core can take 130W from each of the three sides at maximum, and so should be able to deal with a 2S version, where the dual GPU are both on one slot. It'd nerf the GPU performance, as the TDP for both GPU would be up to 130W where before it was 130W for each card, but if you were doing CPU work it's less likely you'd be stressing both CPU and GPU at max?

You'd hope Apple has a fairly good relationship with Intel - good enough to get some advance notice of things going DOA, or their future plans (Apple pushing Crystalwell seems to indicate some levarage with Intel). Assuming they got a heads up in advance that v4 was DOA, maybe they adjusted plans accordingly. They dance to Intel's tune to a great extent (which has delayed and changed the launches of prior Apple Macs (Mac Mini's CPU choice, MBPs CPU etc).

*Cribbing from http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/01/two-steps-forward-a-review-of-the-2013-mac-pro/7

D300 ~W700 with half the VRAM - superseded by W7100
D500 ~W7000/8000 hybrid with some more VRAM - superseded by W8100
D700 ~W9000 at a lower clock (seeing as the TDP for W9000 is 270W) - superseded by W9100 (with 16GB VRAM and a 275W TDP)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7901/amd-announces-firepro-w9100
In a few years, wouldn't AMD have HBM 2 on their FirePros?

 

[ManuelGomes]

Tick-Tock is dead?

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...ng-kaby-lake-processor-as-moores-law-falters/

 

[koyoot]

There is absolutely no chance that we will see dual CPU Mac Pro in this design.

And yes, it looks like Tick-Tock is at least slowed down. Even Intel with their technology, money and fabs cannot get enough yields of CPUs on smaller nodes.

 

[fuchsdh]

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this affects all of Apple's lines. Broadwell was such a ********.

If I were in Apple's shoes, I would just put out a better v3 line with the better GPUs and slightly better processors, or just make some coin off people with some standalone GPU upgrades. Doesn't seem like waiting is going to work in their favor, especially with Intel having fits and delays with 10nm and no clear path to actually realizing 7nm at this point.

 

[PunkNugget]

There is absolutely no chance that we will see dual CPU Mac Pro in this design.

And yes, it looks like Tick-Tock is at least slowed down. Even Intel with their technology, money and fabs cannot get enough yields of CPUs on smaller nodes.

That's what I've been saying all along (with some hope that I'll still be wrong). That's part of the reason why Windows (as I mentioned earlier in this post), is KILLING IT when it comes to rendering power and their multiple CPU systems. That (at the time) is what Apple was known for, was making KICK A$$ Dual CPU systems for all your rendering wants and needs.

That's why I'm ticked, because of this 32 Core "cap" that apple has written in it's code with the current Mac OS X they have. If we can't find out how to fix this I'll unfortunately have to turn to using Windows 10. Man I hate Windows… but at least I won't have any "core cap" issues and I can always upgrade my existing Intel Xeon E5-2640 v3's to something better down the road (like the Intel Xeon E5-2696 V3's or E5-2699 v3's). Look at what Apple's single CPU using (E5-2697 v2) is topping out at:

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2977903 (GB Score of 32,915)

The current CPUs that I'll be using for my Hackintosh (if we can get Mac OS X working) should reach GB scores at around 47,000 - 50,000

But take a look at what you can reach with the E5-2696 v3's (using Windows):

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2258145 (GB Score: 74,120)

Also, look at what you can do with the E5-2699 v3's (using Linux):

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/2075731 (GB Score: 97,702)

You see what I'm talking about? This is where Apple should be at right now. At the end of the day it's all about performance and Apple knows this, but they don't care…

 

[td2243]

We haven't even had a story containing the Mac Pro in 21 weeks. I think that sums it up.