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It's like talking to a brick wall. Again, what functionality does the new Mac Pro offer over the old one? You keep dodging the question. Of course Apple went in a different direction. No one's denying that. The only thing unique to it is the form factor. It's no more powerful than any other workstation out there.

Seriously, where are you getting any of this crap? I couldn't care less who buys the Mac Pro. I don't care who it's for. I'm simply offering opinion based on my personal observations, experience, and relationships. Again, please back up any of your claims with some sort of substance.

More word salad, with a touch of internet muscles thrown in. All I'm asking is for some actual reason applied to your arguments other than generalities like "business sense," or "common sense," or "just because." Throw a little substance our way or even try to refute any of our opinions with some logic. Maybe then someone can "right" you a check.

What's your point? Did Windows 8 really make people jump ship in droves? To a more expensive machine? Having to potentially re-purchase software licenses? That point is no more valid than those who claim everyone jumped over to Windows or AVID/Premiere when Apple debuted the nMP or FCPX.

You want proof? --Go take a marketing class. --Go take a web site design class. --Go take a business class. All you're doing is spewing some nonsense take on Apple's historical data.

You keep saying video has been around and you can edit video on other computers. DUH. DUH. DUH. What the hell does that have to do with marketing? What does it have to do with market shifts? Who introduces a new product and hopes to keep the same old market? And not attract new customers? --Just childish nuh-uh.

BTW, Apple's website is more proof than anyone has provided in this thread as to the intentions and direction of the nMP.
 
--Go take a marketing class. --Go take a web site design class. --Go take a business class

I have taken all those classes and I still have no idea what you're on about.

The Retina iMac seems pretty clearly intended at Prosumers. If anything, the Mac Pro didn't expand Apple's market. It condensed it with the higher price. I don't know on what planet Apple can raise their prices, and at the same time supposedly target a lower end of the market.

The Mac Pro used to start at (iirc) $1999, and now it's up to $2999 at the bottom. With no display.
 
You want proof? --Go take a marketing class. --Go take a web site design class. --Go take a business class. All you're doing is spewing some nonsense take on Apple's historical data.

I'm the one spewing nonsense? Not once have you backed up any of your claims with any sort of point. I know my fair share of web design. I worked for a high profile ad agency for years. I know my fair share around both topics.

You haven't even addressed the fact that the oMP was marketed as a video machine just as much as this new one.

Forget it, this is going no where. I feel foolish for getting into an argument with whom I can only assume at this point is a child.
 
Mac "Pro" is aimed at Professionals, specifically video professionals. It is a logical progression for video professionals who want to move to a newer system with better performance (consideration #1). The "marketing" is not just about better performance but also a smaller, quieter form factor (something Apple excels at). There is no new (buyers) market here, especially at this higher price point. In fact it is even more niche now, with groups like designers and photographers who used to be on Mac Pros can now get much of their work done on the iMacs and MacBook Pros.
 
The reason new products cost so much at the beginning of it's life cycle is to recoup the cost associated with manufacturing it. (Econ 101) The reason cars only change styles every 4-5 years. They have to recoup the retooling cost of the manufacturing line. And since it's so expensive, they have to forecast it over 4-5years. Now why do it? --In hopes to gain a greater market share. --To regenerate product interest. Another words...to increase sales. There are risks associated with change and that's why sometimes there's winners and sometimes there's losers. That's how it works fellas. Plain and simple. nMP is no different.

Oh, and market trends change all the time...especially in technology. Always have and always will. That's why a company is here one day and gone tomorrow.

But yeah, I bet the nMP is right around the corner. :rolleyes: But beware, I hear they only want to sell them to the pros. :rolleyes:
 
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You keep pushing out the same argument without anything substantive to back it up. You do not work for Apple. You are making assumptions on things you know nothing about internally. You do not know their costs and profits nor product cycles. Recoup costs? Pricing takes into account development costs. I'm sure Apple can pony up for a modified mother board--and I'm sure it's already made and being tested. In fact it is normal for them to produce different boards for testing purposes (I'm sure some of all that R&D money they spend will cover for it).
 
Don't need to explain my argument. It's how it works. Read an econ book if you need proof.

You should have to prove how Apple is different from the rest. And you got nothing but emotional angst.
 
The reason new products cost so much at the begging of it's life cycle is to recoup the cost associated with manufacturing it. (Econ 101) The reason cars only change styles every 4-5 years. They have to recoup the retooling of the manufacturing line. And since it's so expensive, they have forecast it over 4-5years. Now why do it? --In hopes to gain a greater market share. --To regenerate product interest. Another words...to increase sales. There are risks associated with change and that's why sometimes there's winners and sometimes there's losers. That's how it works fellas. Plain and simple. nMP is no different.

Even if the price drops 33% (which is nearly impossible when you look at the raw material costs at play from Apple's vendors) it would still only be just as price competitive as earlier Mac Pros.

The old Mac Pro came with one GPU standard. The new Mac Pro comes with two. The US labor is more expensive. All those facts together means the nMP can never become the same price as the old Mac Pro. You can't sell more for less money.

Cars get minor changes every year. Just like the Mac Pro likely will. What makes this any different than a machine like the iMac or Macbook Pro?
 
Even if the price drops 33% (which is nearly impossible when you look at the raw material costs at play from Apple's vendors) it would still only be just as price competitive as earlier Mac Pros.

The old Mac Pro came with one GPU standard. The new Mac Pro comes with two. The US labor is more expensive. All those facts together means the nMP can never become the same price as the old Mac Pro. You can't sell more for less money.

Cars get minor changes every year. Just like the Mac Pro likely will. What makes this any different than a machine like the iMac or Macbook Pro?

Interesting thing about price. Apple has maintained a whole market dedicated to used computers. That suggest to me they keep their manufacturing runs on the shorter side. Which keeps demand and prices up. So this could work for your argument on shorter upgrade cycles.

You are correct about cars. But I believe those upgrades are already planned and therefore included in the initial tooling. Those upgrades are meant to entice you to buy a product another year older in it's life cycle. Same could be said for the nMP as well I guess. But cars do work differently from most.

One thing for sure, with a broader market in mind, you don't have to worry so much with constant upgrades. Rather exposure and market penetration with price manipulation could be very effective. Especially with no real competitors at the moment.

Who knows really. But it's been fun going back and forth with some of you guys.
 
Amazing that other forum members are able to get away with saying things, and their posts left up for hours and hours while acting hostile towards others in the process, and other members are immediately reprimanded for the exact same wording in a different thread.
 
You are correct about cars. But I believe those upgrades are already planned and therefore included in the initial tooling. Those upgrades are meant to entice you to buy a product another year older in it's life cycle. Same could be said for the nMP as well I guess. But cars do work differently from most.

How do you know Apple hasn't planned ahead with upgrades? It would certainly be very silly for them to adopt a component without knowing it's roadmap.
 
Amazing that other forum members are able to get away with saying things, and their posts left up for hours and hours while acting hostile towards others in the process, and other members are immediately reprimanded for the exact same wording in a different thread.

Amen to that Brother!
 
Mac "Pro" is aimed at Professionals, specifically video professionals. It is a logical progression for video professionals who want to move to a newer system with better performance (consideration #1). The "marketing" is not just about better performance but also a smaller, quieter form factor (something Apple excels at). There is no new (buyers) market here, especially at this higher price point. In fact it is even more niche now, with groups like designers and photographers who used to be on Mac Pros can now get much of their work done on the iMacs and MacBook Pros.

I sort of agree with you on this. The Mac Pro of the past, was a designer's dream. it's big and powerful. But, expensive, especially for a poor recent film college grad person in the 2000's finding their way. So, they get an imac. it can do the same thing as the mac pro (especially with firewire). But, slower.

The same is still true today since Apple's price schemes are basically the same for their products.

But, I think the performance gap is not as big. Or, the limit of an iMac is higher to reach than before due to faster tech and better utilization of the gpu within OS X and their apps.

What's different this time, though, is that apple has made the nMP into a "piece of art" because they know that an iMac or a 15" rMBP can do the same thing it can.

They know the Mac Pro is a niche product. So, they made it into a piece of "jewelry," hoping the John Does and Jane Dose will see it and immediately wanna buy it. Just by looking at it. They also know that big design companies value space in their offices and perhaps "mobility" and the new Mac Pro is small and thus easily moved from one place in the office to another.

For the regular consumer, people will see the mac pro as a glorified trash can because they think it's too expensive and wish it was cheaper, more affordable. But, exactly the same. Maybe, have newer gpu's, etc.

The regular consumer is conflicted with the nMP because it is shiny, thus desire-able in their little consumer-y minds. Yet, the parts of it are aimed at a totally different level than them. Economically, financially and practically. They wish they can buy the mac pro to show off to their friends and game on it and use facebook on it. But, you can only do that if you are "privileged." In reality, the nMP is still a workstation, like a Dell, or a Hewlet Packard, but regular consumers are conflicted with it because it is shiny like their iphones and they don't know if they should buy it or better yet, they don't know that they can't have it. the nMP's design is not designed for them.

The way the nMP is designed as an art form is saying you can buy me (if you have $$$) but you shouldn't. Unless you make art on it? And if you make art on a computer, a nMP is art sitting on your desk with you as you make art so it makes sense when the nMP is married in this situation.

But for you and me, the nMP is just that. a piece of art to look at. that you can't probably afford.

and that's ok. buy an imac or mac mini, instead. or a pc or a dell.

who cares in the end?
 
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Mac "Pro" is aimed at Professionals, specifically video professionals.

Exactly. I like the way you put "Pro" in quotes. As has been noted on the Web the Mac Pro is essentially a dongle for FCP. It in no way can compete with full-fledged workstations from Dell or HP. As with rack-mount servers Apple is out of that business all together.
 
This is for anybody who wants to buy one. --Traders, developers, hobbyist, lawyers, doctors, accountants and anybody who wants to run 6 displays. $2,999 doesn't break the bank for everyone.

The iPhone 6 costs $650. Who needs a $650 phone? Yet everyone is buying them...mostly as a status symbol. So why can't this apply to the nMP?
 
Exactly. I like the way you put "Pro" in quotes. As has been noted on the Web the Mac Pro is essentially a dongle for FCP. It in no way can compete with full-fledged workstations from Dell or HP. As with rack-mount servers Apple is out of that business all together.

While it is meant for pros, and FCP justifies its existence, would Apple still build it if FCP went away? Or Logic? With Shake and Aperture as two Pro apps that have gone the wayside it makes me wonder sometimes. But I will certainly be happy if Apple continues to produce the MP for the foreseeable future.
 
While it is meant for pros, and FCP justifies its existence, would Apple still build it if FCP went away? Or Logic? With Shake and Aperture as two Pro apps that have gone the wayside it makes me wonder sometimes. But I will certainly be happy if Apple continues to produce the MP for the foreseeable future.

I'm not entirely sure they would. But who knows. They made pro Macs before they had a strong software investment, but things have changed.
 
This is for anybody who wants to buy one. --Traders, developers, hobbyist, lawyers, doctors, accountants and anybody who wants to run 6 displays. $2,999 doesn't break the bank for everyone
Yeah, but that $2999 buys you a pretty bare bones config.
 
Yeah, but that $2999 buys you a pretty bare bones config.

See that's the thing....the people I mentioned don't really need a ton of power. There are other tangibles in play with nMP besides straight power. And I feel they did a great job of making sure the low end units would cover 95% of the market for other professionals. The one's actually buying all these iPhones. Sure you could go do a mac mini, but why would you when you can afford a nMP? Especially if you don't want an all in one job.
 
See that's the thing....the people I mentioned don't really need a ton of power. There are other tangibles in play with nMP besides straight power.

That's the thing, in a $3000 enthusiast machine I expect some internal SATA3 storage room, plenty of PCIe slots, lots of RAM slots and the ability to have a choice of GPUs depending on what I want to do with it.

In no way is a current Mac Pro of use to me. I have already spent more on my used 2012 Mac Pro and its upgrades that I would have paid for a refurb base MP 6,1. I love my 5,1 but have zero interest in a 6,1.
 
That's the thing, in a $3000 enthusiast machine I expect some internal SATA3 storage room, plenty of PCIe slots, lots of RAM slots and the ability to have a choice of GPUs depending on what I want to do with it.

In no way is a current Mac Pro of use to me. I have already spent more on my used 2012 Mac Pro and its upgrades that I would have paid for a refurb base MP 6,1. I love my 5,1 but have zero interest in a 6,1.

You might want those things but the professionals I mention most likely don't care. They want what's hot and has a good image. Do you really think there's anything special about an iPhone 6 to justify the cost of buying a new one? Yet they are selling. ..to whom?

So if the cost of a new iPhone 6 doesn't phase you and you're in the market for a new desktop, why wouldn't you shop a nMP as an option?
 
You might want those things but the professionals I mention most likely don't care. They want what's hot and has a good image. Do you really think there's anything special about an iPhone 6 to justify the cost of buying a new one? Yet they are selling. ..to whom?

So if the cost of a new iPhone 6 doesn't phase you and you're in the market for a new desktop, why wouldn't you shop a nMP as an option?

So I don't necessarily agree with Scottsjack assessment, but if a machine doesn't do what you need to it do, it could cost $3 or $3,000,000 and it doesn't matter. It's not an option.

Professionals don't care at all about image. The form of the computer they have tucked under their desk or in a rack doesn't pay the bills.

I could buy a very pretty computer, but if it doesn't run my apps the way I need it to, it's going in the trash can. (A real one.)
 
Professionals don't care at all about image. The form of the computer they have tucked under their desk or in a rack doesn't pay the bills.

What are you talking about? Image is everything for some of these guys. Plus it's a business expense. Apple has the hottest products on the planet right now.
 
You might want those things but the professionals I mention most likely don't care. They want what's hot and has a good image. Do you really think there's anything special about an iPhone 6 to justify the cost of buying a new one? Yet they are selling. ..to whom?

So if the cost of a new iPhone 6 doesn't phase you and you're in the market for a new desktop, why wouldn't you shop a nMP as an option?

OMG! Do you really think that when I was shooting sports professionally I drug around two Canon EOS-1D__ bodies and a bunch of white lenses because they were hot and as products had a good image?

OMG! #2, iPhone 6. I traded in my perfectly functioning iPhone 5c halfway through my contract to get an iPhone 6. The iP6 has significantly better security and an non-discussed but surprisingly better headphone amp. Additionally the storage capacity is twice what an iP5S offered.
 
OMG! Do you really think that when I was shooting sports professionally I drug around two Canon EOS-1D__ bodies and a bunch of white lenses because they were hot and as products had a good image?

OMG! #2, iPhone 6. I traded in my perfectly functioning iPhone 5c halfway through my contract to get an iPhone 6. The iP6 has significantly better security and an non-discussed but surprisingly better headphone amp. Additionally the storage capacity is twice what an iP5S offered.

OMG! You think only photographers need these. And no, I don't think there's anything hot about photography. At least the sweaty sports types. :)

OMG #2, You don't realize I'm talking about business professionals.
 
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