Will there be a New Mac Pro?

[derbothaus]

Well, in one important way it's not a good thing. Remember the cost of desktops in the early '80s? A lot of what drove down the cost of the powerful systems we want for work and development was the huge market for consumers.

Funny, I thought it was outsourcing that did it. Or just the proliferation of computing in general as desktops were all we had given the size of transistors back in the day. A lot of early PC's were made in the USA. An entirely US made PC, if it could even be done, would be over $20,000. With less power than an iPad.

 

[zephonic]

I dunno about everyone else, but using a ipad for an extended period of time can make my arms tired depending what angle im using it at.

Interesting, I sit on the couch or in bed with the iPad in my lap, and it is so much more comfy than a laptop. YMMV.

Can't imagine trying to edit video with a touch interface at 18 hours blocks. I can sit for days at a time and edit with a mouse.

Hmm, I think the term RSI was invented solely because of mouse-related problems. I don't have much problems with it, but always found it a clumsy and cumbersome way of working. I've gotten really good at it, though, but I'd happily drop it for multi-touch once the apps are optimized for it.

A large touch interface only makes sense to me in a tabletop configuration that you stand over.

Absolutely! Except you don't have to stand over it, you can sit "at" it. I envision a 20"+ devices slightly slanted at maybe 7-15 degrees or so. It would be perfect if it is angled like the old behemoth mixing consoles. If you have a padded armrest, you can lean on your desk while your fingers work on the touch surface.

Using a touch screen imac would suck.

That's why Apple didn't go that route. Jobs famously said that they tried it and it was not a viable solution.

 

[goMac]

That's why Apple didn't go that route. Jobs famously said that they tried it and it was not a viable solution.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this reappear from a few conversations I've had.

I've repeatedly had this patent brought up in conversations:
http://www.cultofmac.com/56138/apple-thinks-touchscreen-imac-ergonomics-in-new-patent/

 

[Garamond]

Yes yes but will there be a new Mac Pro?

 

[comatory]

As someone already mentioned - the content has to be created on something. I mean all the coding, programming and designing that they do in-house is probably all done on MP.

So I don't know - if not anything, they need the horsepower of MPs for their own development.

 

[xgman]

That's a good point and one that seems to elude most.

Apple product meeting:

Hey, let's use all these resources to make our software use more than 4 cores, but we won't sell a computer with more than 4 cores. Just for xxxxs and giggles.

Yeah, that's an awesome idea.

(high fives all around)

Yeah, what happened to Moores law? Haven't we been stuck between 2 and 3 GHZ with 4 cores (outside the mac pro) for years now? Seems to me we should all be at 4-5Ghz and 8-12 cores by now, What the heck happened? Seems like we are going backwards to me.

 

[TennisandMusic]

Yeah, what happened to Moores law? Haven't we been stuck between 2 and 3 GHZ with 4 cores (outside the mac pro) for years now? Seems to me we should all be at 4-5Ghz and 8-12 cores by now, What the heck happened? Seems like we are going backwards to me.

Moore's law isn't really about ghz. Plus, on Windows all of these desktop cpu's can be set to 4.5 ghz or so pretty easily.

 

[Umbongo]

Yeah, what happened to Moores law? Haven't we been stuck between 2 and 3 GHZ with 4 cores (outside the mac pro) for years now? Seems to me we should all be at 4-5Ghz and 8-12 cores by now, What the heck happened? Seems like we are going backwards to me.

Moore's law doesn't state performance will double every 2 years, it states transistor count will.

 

[xgman]

Moore's law doesn't state performance will double every 2 years, it states transistor count will.

I thought the implication was raw speed though, no? What good are more transistors if the cpus are getting slower and not really any more cores for the mainstream units that is. It feel like my quad cores of 2-3 years ago were running at higher clocks than today's trend. Maybe because prior to 2008 I was on overclocked PC's at 4ghz+.

----------

Moore's law isn't really about ghz. Plus, on Windows all of these desktop cpu's can be set to 4.5 ghz or so pretty easily.

So why are most of the macs stuck at 2.x? Even at the top of the line newest cpu Intel makes, they will not allow to crack the 4ghz barrier even now. Must have something to do with AMD in some grand scheme of things. Just seems odd to me.

 

[Umbongo]

I thought the implication was raw speed though, no?

No. Just more transistors. Which is currently allowing more efficient architectures and more cores.

What good are more transistors if the cpus are getting slower and not really any more cores for the mainstream units that is. It feel like my quad cores of 2-3 years ago were running at higher clocks than today's trend. Maybe because prior to 2008 I was on overclocked PC's at 4ghz+.

Right so this is all just your perception. Stock speeds are higher now than they have been since the move away from the Pentium 4 architecture. There are more cores than there have been available and the processors are more energy efficient. Every generation of processors allows you to process things quicker - regardless of the specifications on the processors.

They are at 3-3.5GHz now, but if they go to 4GHz it means the processors have more chance to fail. The power requirement, and thus heat output, rises exponentially as you push the clock rate up.

 

[spacedesign911]

I dunno about everyone else, but using a ipad for an extended period of time can make my arms tired depending what angle im using it at.

I suppose it all depends on what content your viewing. Fnar Fnar

 

[James W Styles]

Summer Apple Redesign

So, From what I can best piece together from both net sources and friends in the industry..
this summer (july-aug) apple is set to drop their new OS (mountain lion). With that they now have access to the new line of latest intel chips, Better display , TB, USB 3.0, Nivdia Graphics (1gb and 2gb) and have had ample time to work out most bugs with the new architecture and OS (due to lion's issues). That being said, 600+ days since the MP was updated is unheard of and sets a nice stage for big upgrades but not often, since most machines are still running strong years after purchase. Iproducts are the honda or ford (very affordable/ disposable and the next model is out in under a year) Mac Pro's (note the lack of I) are Big ticket, tried, tested workhorses ( city does not buy new heavy equipment every year).
So I'll say.. Expect a new mac line up starting around July (Mtn Lion release) and going until Nov. This will allow Apple to cash in on the back to school shopping and holidays.

 

[xgman]

So I'll say.. Expect a new mac line up starting around July (Mtn Lion release) and going until Nov. This will allow Apple to cash in on the back to school shopping and holidays.

Mac Pro is hardly a back to school item, at least in most families.

 

[James W Styles]

Mac Pro is hardly a back to school item, at least in most families.

No family buys a Mac pro.. However Schools, studios and Labs that are upgrading their equipment for the new semester will be in the market this summer. I bought my MP G4 back when I was taking programming, so serious users who want to get their new equipment loaded and tweaked before having no free time would be looking to buy as well.
I was pointing out that with Ivy bridge out now and apple doing a re-design of the fleet anyways.. I'd put my money on all apple products coming out fairly close together. Snow Lion (June- July)will start it, and Iphone 5 will finish it (Oct-Nov). All macs will be updated in between with TB, USB 3.0, Faster Chips, Ultra HD, Apple will flood the tech market, so everyone can buy... Standard or Pro user, Single person or company alike.

 

[spacedesign911]

No family buys a Mac pro.. However Schools, studios and Labs that are upgrading their equipment for the new semester will be in the market this summer. I bought my MP G4 back when I was taking programming, so serious users who want to get their new equipment loaded and tweaked before having no free time would be looking to buy as well.
I was pointing out that with Ivy bridge out now and apple doing a re-design of the fleet anyways.. I'd put my money on all apple products coming out fairly close together. Snow Lion (June- July)will start it, and Iphone 5 will finish it (Oct-Nov). All macs will be updated in between with TB, USB 3.0, Faster Chips, Ultra HD, Apple will flood the tech market, so everyone can buy... Standard or Pro user, Single person or company alike.

I would concur with your suggestions, adding that the order in which the new macs are realeased will be based on high sales numbers first, low sales last. So Macbook Pro 15" and or iMac first, at WWDC, Mac Pro last, possibly August, all in time for new education year, and then September and October will possibly see iPods and iPhone updates in time for Christmas season.

 

[-hh]

...So why are most of the macs stuck at 2.x? Even at the top of the line newest cpu Intel makes, they will not allow to crack the 4ghz barrier even now. Must have something to do with AMD in some grand scheme of things. Just seems odd to me.

IMO, I think it is a combination of:

(a) the Economy ... customers aren't madly jumping over each other to get to the top of the pile to wave money at Intel to buy higher Hz machines.

(b) the Competition ... AMD isn't a threat on the 'big iron' side for Intel to outperform them with higher Hz as a selling point.

(c) raising the CPU's voltage to raise the Hz also raises the (1) cost of running the system (power=money) and the (2) thermal management design challenge (fans=noise).



-hh

 

[macuser453787]

So, From what I can best piece together from both net sources and friends in the industry..
this summer (july-aug) apple is set to drop their new OS (mountain lion). With that they now have access to the new line of latest intel chips, Better display , TB, USB 3.0, Nivdia Graphics (1gb and 2gb) and have had ample time to work out most bugs with the new architecture and OS (due to lion's issues). That being said, 600+ days since the MP was updated is unheard of and sets a nice stage for big upgrades but not often, since most machines are still running strong years after purchase. Iproducts are the honda or ford (very affordable/ disposable and the next model is out in under a year) Mac Pro's (note the lack of I) are Big ticket, tried, tested workhorses ( city does not buy new heavy equipment every year).
So I'll say.. Expect a new mac line up starting around July (Mtn Lion release) and going until Nov. This will allow Apple to cash in on the back to school shopping and holidays.

All interesting (and promising!) points.

 

[xgman]

IMO, I think it is a combination of:

(a) the Economy ... customers aren't madly jumping over each other to get to the top of the pile to wave money at Intel to buy higher Hz machines.

(b) the Competition ... AMD isn't a threat on the 'big iron' side for Intel to outperform them with higher Hz as a selling point.

(c) raising the CPU's voltage to raise the Hz also raises the (1) cost of running the system (power=money) and the (2) thermal management design challenge (fans=noise).



-hh

It's been my understanding that Intel does not want AMD out of business. They need AMD to keep antitrust officials from pestering them, so they can keep their lion's share of the market and leave crumbs for AMD. Maybe this is another reason they haven't blasted any further down the speed line when they clearly can.

 

[-hh]

So, From what I can best piece together from both net sources and friends in the industry..
this summer (july-aug) apple is set to drop their new OS (mountain lion). With that they now have access to the new line of latest intel chips, Better display , TB, USB 3.0, Nivdia Graphics (1gb and 2gb) and have had ample time to work out most bugs with the new architecture and OS (due to lion's issues).
...
So I'll say.. Expect a new mac line up starting around July (Mtn Lion release) and going until Nov. This will allow Apple to cash in on the back to school shopping and holidays.

A nice idea, but it is a big technical challenge to try to concurrently develop new hardware while the software (OS) it is to be run on is also being developed.

Yes, even "refreshed" stuff, since there's still QA testing - - sure, it can be done, but the net result is that you defer the release of either until both are ready. As such, new Macs will invariably need to ship with Lion ... not Mountain Lion. Granted, there may very well be a +x.x.1 version, but it is still Lion, and it will be essentially "immediately compatible" with all of the currently shipping productivity Applications (ie, Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, etc).


Reason #2 is "Free Publicity". Precisely why would Apple want to combine these two events when they can double their bang for the buck? This speaks to a hardware release earlier too, since there's another free bag of publicity mindshare in July for Mountain Lion.



-hh

 

[goMac]

4 ghz is something very hard to cross. From what I understand from people in the industry, at 4 ghz something about the power and heat requirements becomes unsustainable for normal machines.

They could be waiting on Mountain Lion, especially if there are new drivers in ML not found in Lion right now. Hard to say. Given that no one is shipping in volume yet, and Apple always lags a bit behind others when they ship in volume, I'm not convinced anything is abnormal yet.

As far as rumors go, I've seen just as many that a refresh is coming as that it's not (and by that, I mean I've seen one or two original rumors for both outcomes.)

 

[David085]

Not if ppl give begging for one...

 

[maxxaddict]

Aside from an updated Mac Pro, I personally would like to see a new model join the lineup, something in between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro.

Give people (I'm sure there are a few) who want some of the expandability of a Mac Pro, with an i7 or single Xeon processor. You could have RAM expandable to 16 GB, 2 HD bays and 1-2 PCI slots. This would also give at least some ability to add more USB or FW, Audio/video cards or eSATA (Something that should be factory installed anyways IMO) to a Mac without the HUGE price tag of the Mac Pro.

You could leave the regular mac mini the way it is and instead of a (greatly) handicapped Mac Mini "server" you could have a legitimate option for small businesses and media users.

Oh... and give the Mac some damned Bluray support already. I can make HD videos on my mac right out of the box, but the only practical way I can share them is on a thumb drive or Youtube.... WTF Apple.

 

[TennisandMusic]

4 ghz is something very hard to cross. From what I understand from people in the industry, at 4 ghz something about the power and heat requirements becomes unsustainable for normal machines.

They could be waiting on Mountain Lion, especially if there are new drivers in ML not found in Lion right now. Hard to say. Given that no one is shipping in volume yet, and Apple always lags a bit behind others when they ship in volume, I'm not convinced anything is abnormal yet.

As far as rumors go, I've seen just as many that a refresh is coming as that it's not (and by that, I mean I've seen one or two original rumors for both outcomes.)

4 ghz is dead simple to cross and Windows users do it every day. You just increase the clock multiplier a bit. People tend to have more difficulty the closer you get to 5 ghz, but 4? A complete no brainer.

 

[goMac]

4 ghz is dead simple to cross and Windows users do it every day. You just increase the clock multiplier a bit. People tend to have more difficulty the closer you get to 5 ghz, but 4? A complete no brainer.

I didn't say you could cross it. I said the heat and power constraints become unsustainable in normal machines.

Yes, I'm aware with better cooling systems you can do it. But like I said, unsustainable in normal machines. This is from people I've talked to at Intel. It's what basically killed the 4 ghz Pentium 4.

 

[deconstruct60]

So why are most of the macs stuck at 2.x? Even at the top of the line newest cpu Intel makes,

Sometimes this forum is just a pure fire hydrant of disinformation. Take gander in the "Turbo" column for these 2 models.

http://ark.intel.com/products/65725/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1280V2-(8M-Cache-3_60-GHz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/65722/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1290V2-(8M-Cache-3_70-GHz)

Must have something to do with AMD in some grand scheme of things. Just seems odd to me.

it isn't "odd". First, most of the time folks here in the forum discount the correlation between core count and max GHz which are coupled by power.
The other is the discount "could crank" and "efficiently crank". Ivy Bridge and the new 22nm 3D efficiency crumbles even faster than Sandy Bridge does.