Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Azrael9]

The 2012 iMac design (really an extension of the 2009 design) has been a long lasting and well liked piece of kit but in 2020 it really is starting to look dated and old fashioned. Part of this is the bezels but also the chin and the stand.

Yes. It was classy and very good it in its day. Yes. Well liked. And 'long lasting.'

But that design has been with us for a very long time now.

The chin, bezels and stand have been eclipsed by others and even Apple themselves with the XDR. iPads. iPhones. Macbooks. Even the Mac Mini's space grey makes the iMac seem old fashioned. The chin is large. The iPanda bezels are huge, heavy and distracting. And the stand's adjustability is very limited.

It's now starting to look iStale. Dated. Old fashioned.

And when you're being passed by Dell and TVs, it's time for Apple's desktop division to pull their finger out. Steve Jobs would have had them for toast letting the iMac languish for so long.

It can't be revolution all the time. Sometimes, evolution. But the iMac is due a good shake of the bag.

Azrael.
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4k video editing
i prefer a larger amount of ram If I cannot easily replace it.
i gave the price some more thought. As the iMac Pro starts at 5500€ and the Mac Pro at somewhere around 7500€ I would asume the normal iMac will have some sort of price ceiling below 5000€... unless of cause they go and just Make a more broad pro line up like with MacBooks Pro, than I could see the price more liquid towards the higher areas.

4k video editing. That makes sense. 32 gigs is ok. But haven't an extra 8 gigs or so over that would be better. Computers are only just getting to grips with 4k. Gpus. Ram. SSDs. More is better. Faster is better. Wider is better.

I think we'll see a more 'liquid' price going up. And I won't put it past them to upgrade the price with 16 gig of Ram and 512 gig SSD if they're standard.

Azrael.
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not sure how I missed this but...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268422293862178816

*nods. Oh yes.

Even the Crabs know the Fusion Drive is dead!

*Does the crab dance.

FUSION DRIVE is DEAD! LONG LIVE THE SSD!!!

Azrael.
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Fusion drive was Apple's way to 'improve' something when trying to cheat the customers back when SSD was expensive.
Few years later, it became daylight robbery and now its a "Gordon Ramsay" insult.
So, 2020 and all SSD. Anyone saying otherwise should meet Simon Cowell and Gordon Ramsay in person. :-D

Sorry but I'm not sorry

That's right, Freida.

I think you put the Fusion Drive on the cross, right there.

It was petty, upsell, penny pinching when even the Macbooks had SSDs at the time. It's 2020. Time to get rid of it, Apple. No to HARD DRIVES. (I'm using my 2012 iMac on Windows bootcamp. With the 'Fusion Drive'. And it's dreadful. An abomination. As slow as a g'damn snail. A marketing facade masquerading as 'tech' that was in our 'best interests.')

SSDs have become dirt cheap. And even the faster models would be cheap for Apple's supply chain bean counters.

NO MERCY on the Fusion Drive. *Fires it into the skip where it belongs...

The iMac, the product that DUMPED the floppy drive STILL has an 8 year old peice of legacy tech'. Apple ought to be ashamed of themselves.

The Fusion Drive in 2020 is an absolute DISGRACE!

Even the Crabs *get it.*

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

October will be when the new iMac Pro is launched along with new RDNA 2.0 cards for the Mac Pro. And if we're lucky, Intel might have their 10th generation "B-Core" out and Apple could also update the Mini while we're at it.

Haven't rumours pegged an LED iMac Pro for next year?

And...it seems that Intel's 'Rocket' may get postponed to early 2021...?

At least AMD's RDNA2 looks like it's on track for 'THIS' year.

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

I don't see any reason why the chassis (a lump of aluminium) can't be the same 'lump of aluminium' (and the 27 inch iMac DOES use a lot of aluminium. It's stand is not that far away from the XDR's fancy pivot and swivel.)

You don’t buy a Rolex because you need a watch, you buy a Rolex because you can’t bring your Jacht to the restaurant. The Ferrari is not sold to you, the Ferrari is sold to a person that has a lot of money and a Ferrari looking like a family car won’t attract a person that is looking for a Ferrari

 

[Azrael9]

Frankly, I don't think bezel size on a desktop display matters all that much to Apple

...Except on their Macbook Pro...or their XDR display...or their iPad...or their iPhone...Or Dell's Infinity displays...or the TV market where 'Thick bezel' Panasonic have even out trimmed Apple's iMac bezels...

The iMac represents old design language. It has NOTHING in common with what Apple is currently doing. It's just Apple (like the Mac Pro etc...) take their time to get around to things.

iMac's turn is up next. Steve Jobs introduced that iMac design. That is now a very long time ago.

If the iMac's design language isn't up to date then that tells you all we need to know about the Mac desktop division.

Old. Stale. Complacent.

It's time for a revolution.

Azrael.

 

[Freida]

Noticed that not only 27" iMac has long delivery times but also iPad Pro so I think that indicator is probably not valid here.
I guess WWDC will show us some good stuff (I hope).

Here is a crazy thought:

What if AMD said that RDNA2 coming to PCs before consoles meant that Apple arranged special deal and we will see RDNA2 in iMacs first? Given the NDA, AMD can't say anything more and it would certainly count as substantial update.
Can you imagine that? Revealed in 2 weeks time, shipping in 2-3 weeks after that

 

[Azrael9]

You don’t buy a Rolex because you need a watch, you buy a Rolex because you can’t bring your Jacht to the restaurant. The Ferrari is not sold to you, the Ferrari is sold to a person that has a lot of money and a Ferrari looking like a family car won’t attract a person that is looking for a Ferrari

Except Ferrari don't make products 'for the rest of us.'

And Apple do.

Apple Watch is very price accessible (...yes...*cough...I admit it...I said Apple has a price accessible product...) compared to Rolex...

Apple's 'aluminium' design language is democratised to the tune of 1 billion users and counting.

Apple aren't going to offer an XDR display for £1k. But they can strip out the expensive bits and the 'fancy' attach/swivel/pivot pieces of cleverness. The XDR probably uses less Aluminium than the iMac. (Which is quite a lump of Alu' to lug onto a glass table.) It's just how they 'fashion' that lump of Alu'.

The holes in the old cheese greater where in the £1500-£3k price range. And the iMac now occupies that price bracket and CAN borrow 'premium' (and should) design language.

If Apple can borrow some of the XDR's vent holes and 'square off' some of the design to create the sharper design accents of the XDR. They will.

If you combine the cooling of the iMac Pro. The Design accents of the XDR. You'll have a great and dramatic iMac design which can still 'feel familiar.'

Azrael.

 

[Freida]

Why do people always use cars as an example?
Also, its not the same. Not even close!

You use Rolex - which is a fashion accessory and you use supercar that is a show off.

None of that applies to the situation here. XDR or Mac Pro is bought by people who need the power/specs. Not by people who want to show off that they can afford it. So why comparing it when its not even close?

Using XDR chassis would make sense for many reasons :

-the cost of development for that was already done and it would lower it even further
-scaling it up would probably also lower the cost so even the XDR would benefit
-etc.

Personally, I don't really mind which way they go. I haven't seen the XDR in person as its impossible here but I just hope that the cooling and design will get sorted as the future is not looking good for AiO. In fact, its been bad for many years so if XDR helps then lets go for it. If they don't wanna go that route and come up with even better solution then lets do it.

Forget your bloody cars - nothing to do with this!

You don’t buy a Rolex because you need a watch, you buy a Rolex because you can’t bring your Jacht to the restaurant. The Ferrari is not sold to you, the Ferrari is sold to a person that has a lot of money and a Ferrari looking like a family car won’t attract a person that is looking for a Ferrari

 

[Azrael9]

Noticed that not only 27" iMac has long delivery times but also iPad Pro so I think that indicator is probably not valid here.
I guess WWDC will show us some good stuff (I hope).

Here is a crazy thought:

What if AMD said that RDNA2 coming to PCs before consoles meant that Apple arranged special deal and we will see RDNA2 in iMacs first? Given the NDA, AMD can't say anything more and it would certainly count as substantial update.
Can you imagine that? Revealed in 2 weeks time, shipping in 2-3 weeks after that

I'd be very happy with a boosted iPad. Or even a much larger one. eg. 16 inches.

AMD have 'most favoured' GPU access to the Mac market. The best part of 5 million units, 20 million units a year. Over the last 5 years. That's 100 million units. Probably helped AMD through the dark times. I'd like to see Apple leverage that relationship.

A late July ship for iMacs puts this update very close to RDNA2.

I'd love to see 'some' part of the RDNA2 stack eg 6700 XT in the iMac. It would be quite a PR coupe.

Azrael.

 

[Homy]

What if AMD said that RDNA2 coming to PCs before consoles meant that Apple arranged special deal and we will see RDNA2 in iMacs first? Given the NDA, AMD can't say anything more and it would certainly count as substantial update.
Can you imagine that? Revealed in 2 weeks time, shipping in 2-3 weeks after that

If I'm not wrong MBP was the first laptop to use RDNA 1 Radeon Pro 5300M/5500M. Even AMD said so in its press release so it's not impossible that they choose to do something similar again. In fact Apple can skip RDNA 1 for iMac completely and jump to RDNA 2 if they want. That would still be in the time frame of 18 months for iMac update, but if Apple wants to play cheap as many times before they will go for RDNA 1.

 

[pldelisle]

I doubt RDNA 2.0 is reallllllly *that* advanced in mass production.

 

[Azrael9]

Why do people always use cars as an example?
Also, its not the same. Not even close!

You use Rolex - which is a fashion accessory and you use supercar that is a show off.

None of that applies to the situation here. XDR or Mac Pro is bought by people who need the power/specs. Not by people who want to show off that they can afford it. So why comparing it when its not even close?

Using XDR chassis would make sense for many reasons :

-the cost of development for that was already done and it would lower it even further
-scaling it up would probably also lower the cost so even the XDR would benefit
-etc.

Personally, I don't really mind which way they go. I haven't seen the XDR in person as its impossible here but I just hope that the cooling and design will get sorted as the future is not looking good for AiO. In fact, its been bad for many years so if XDR helps then lets go for it. If they don't wanna go that route and come up with even better solution then lets do it.

Forget your bloody cars - nothing to do with this!

Guys and their car analogies...

I agree. No reason why Apple can't use their supply chain magic to bring the XDR design cues to the masses.

The whole point of tech' is to bring the 'flagship' tech' benefits down to lower models over time. As the cost reduces.

Though I'm not buying that the Alu stand of the XDR costs anything like 1k to make.

Azrael.
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I doubt RDNA 2.0 is reallllllly *that* advanced in mass production.

Hmm. Maybe.

They must be ramping up with a September launch.

And if you take the whole of June. (And iMacs likely shipping in July...)

And all of July.

That's another two months.

Then you only have August...and you're right on the RDNA2 Sep' announcement?

I'd say an RDNA2 lower to mid' stack product isn't impossible.

But knowing Apple...as we do? We're getting the RDNA1. It's year old tech'. Apple pays less for it.

And Apple will charge the BTO of £450.

That's how Apple's MO seems to work.

Azrael.
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If I'm not wrong MBP was the first laptop to use RDNA 1 Radeon Pro 5300M/5500M. Even AMD said so in its press release so it's not impossible that they choose to do something similar again.

*nods. I hope that is the case.

RDNA2 is going to really shake up the GPU stack. Price. Value. Performance.

50% more efficient. Some of that stack would live with an iMac update.

Azrael.
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I just thought, is the reason why Apple have had such thick borders on the iMac for so long because they couldn't find some double sided sticky tape that was thinner?

Azrael.

PS.

AMD Ryzen 7 3800XT Ashes of the Singularity benchmark result leaks - VideoCardz.com

The upcoming Ryzen 3000 XT series are again, starting to show up in leaked benchmarks. AMD Ryzen 7 3800XT Last week has been relatively quiet when it comes to the Ryzen 3000 XT series – the refresh of the existing Matisse (Zen2) lineup. The Ryzen 9 3900XT, Ryzen 7 3800XT, and Ryzen 5 3600XT are […]

videocardz.com

AMD piling on the pressure with their cpus...?

 

[DrRadon]

Except Ferrari don't make products 'for the rest of us.'

And Apple do.

But Fiat sells products to the rest of us. They own Ferrari.

 

[Azrael9]

But Fiat sells products to the rest of us. They own Ferrari.

Yes. We all know car companies like Volkswagen sell rebadged Skodas to reach the markets they can't or won't reach. That they own Audi? (Is it?)

A kind of marketing duplicity. To a degree.

It allows premium cars to be sold to those with more money than sense. And 'regular' cars to us 'bottom feeders.'

Perhaps Apple can rebrand their 'cheaper' products under the Power Computing brand (remember them?)

And offer cheaper, faster Mac Towers for the rest of us....

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Yes. We all know car companies like Volkswagen sell rebadged Skodas to reach the markets they can't or won't reach. That they own Audi? (Is it?)

A kind of marketing duplicity. To a degree.

It allows premium cars to be sold to those with more money than sense. And 'regular' cars to us 'bottom feeders.'

Perhaps Apple can rebrand their 'cheaper' products under the Power Computing brand (remember them?)

And offer cheaper, faster Mac Towers for the rest of us....

Azrael.

Simple answer :


No.


lol.

 

[satchmo]

Why do people always use cars as an example?
Also, its not the same. Not even close!

You use Rolex - which is a fashion accessory and you use supercar that is a show off.

None of that applies to the situation here. XDR or Mac Pro is bought by people who need the power/specs. Not by people who want to show off that they can afford it. So why comparing it when its not even close?

Using XDR chassis would make sense for many reasons :

-the cost of development for that was already done and it would lower it even further
-scaling it up would probably also lower the cost so even the XDR would benefit
-etc.

Personally, I don't really mind which way they go. I haven't seen the XDR in person as its impossible here but I just hope that the cooling and design will get sorted as the future is not looking good for AiO. In fact, its been bad for many years so if XDR helps then lets go for it. If they don't wanna go that route and come up with even better solution then lets do it.

Forget your bloody cars - nothing to do with this!

Sadly, there are a lot of well off posers and Apple's loves them as customers, although they probably won't admit it.

I'd love to see a XDR iMac. But only by using the exact XDR chassis would lower cost. Anything slightly different requires completely new tooling and R&D.

 

[xgman]

This whole thread should be renamed "Dreamers".

 

[ondert]

This whole thread should be renamed "Dreamers".

well.. actually most of these dreams should become true at a proper hardware vendor. however, with a salesman like Tim Cook in charge, people can only dream of those products.

 

[Azrael9]

This whole thread should be renamed "Dreamers".

In honour of our high priest of dreaming...

Steve Jobs.

Azrael.
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well.. actually most of these dreams should become true at a proper hardware vendor. however, with a salesman like Tim Cook in charge, people can only dream of those products.

True dat.

Steve Jobs was a product guy and a sales man in that order. It wasn't all about the money.

Tim Cook is a supply chain guy with the charisma of a bean counter. It's all about the money.

Azrael.

 

[Moonjumper]

But Fiat sells products to the rest of us. They own Ferrari.

Fiat merged with Chrysler, then the joint FCA split Ferrari off into a separate division, and FCA now own less than a quarter of it. It has been a long time since Fiat owned Ferrari, but they effectively acted as separate entities anyway.

But as others have said, the analogy doesn't work in other ways. While many people may see the XDR display as a luxury good, it is actually a device bought for work, and is cheap compared to many models it competes against. Apple has little to lose by spreading the XDR design language across the range, but a lot to gain. The iMac needs better cooling. The XDR is an Apple solution to cooling that they know works.

 

[macpro2000]

Apple used to change the design all the time, why is it such a big deal to do it again?

 

[DrRadon]

None of that applies to the situation here. XDR or Mac Pro is bought by people who need the power/specs. Not by people who want to show off that they can afford it. So why comparing it when its not even close?

Because it is close, it even is exactly the same.
If it was all about power and specs people would build their plastic tower power Windows PCs.
It's about the brand, it's about the look, it's about different product categories.
Every Apple product is a luxury item that can do something.
A supercar can also drive, a super car also has a lot of power... how many people buying those actually need it? Yet still these companies have billions of turnover each year.

The iPhone SE will not look like the iPhone 11 Pro.
The base level iMac for 1400€ won't look like the 14000€ MacPro.

 

[Freida]

Guys and their cars! Crazy

Anyway, I've noticed that you and me will never see eye to eye.

What you are saying is not the same and never will be. You are isolating instances to suit your bias.
You ignored important element - MacOS.
If I need power and I want to stick with MacOS I need to get Mac Pro. I don't get it to flash among friends but I get it because I need the power. When it comes to workstations the pricing is different and those workstations are usually pricey everywhere. (Boxx, HP, Dell etc.) so Apple usually (and I mean that word) is priced about the same as the other companies.
Sure, there will be wankers who will get Mac Pro and XDR just to impress people but I would hope that this forum is not the case and therefore we don't need to include that insanity there, do we?

So, again - please forget your car analogy. Car analogy often doesn't work. It just seems to me that guys are limited to just cars! (sorry, I had to )

Because it is close, it even is exactly the same.
If it was all about power and specs people would build their plastic tower power Windows PCs.
It's about the brand, it's about the look, it's about different product categories.
Every Apple product is a luxury item that can do something.
A supercar can also drive, a super car also has a lot of power... how many people buying those actually need it? Yet still these companies have billions of turnover each year.

The iPhone SE will not look like the iPhone 11 Pro.
The base level iMac for 1400€ won't look like the 14000€ MacPro.

 

[CWallace]

Haven't rumours pegged an LED iMac Pro for next year?

Original rumors were late 2020. Some Mini-LED products are slipping to 2021, but I believe those are the iPads. I believe the iMac Pro and MacBook Pro 16" are still rumored to get Mini-LED this year.

...Except on their Macbook Pro...or their XDR display...or their iPad...or their iPhone...Or Dell's Infinity displays...or the TV market where 'Thick bezel' Panasonic have even out trimmed Apple's iMac bezels...

Yes, some new Apple products have thinned their bezels where technological advances have allowed them to do so, but the bulk of the product line is still rocking those older bezels. The new MacBook Air. The new MacBook Pro 13". The new iPhone SE. All the iPads other than the Pros.

If the 13" MBP is EOL in favor of a new 14" model, it may very well have the same thinner bezels as the 16" MBP. And if the MacBook Air is EOL on Intel and moving to ARM, perhaps that will have a new case that will also have thinner bezels. And maybe the rest of the iPad line will drop TouchID for FaceID which will allow them to thin the upper and lower bezels like on the iPad Pro. One can hope for all of this, though pricing pressure might delay some of these moves (especially on the base iPad and iPhone SE).





As for the Pro Display XDR's cooling, that is driven by the significant amount of heat put out by the Mini-LED backlight supporting sustained high-nit brightness. If the rumored Mini-LED iMac Pro sees a significant boost in it's brightness, as well, then they might need to add more vents to cool that heat as well as help with the CPU and GPU TDP climbs.

 

[ArmouredBear]

FFS Azrael9 you do not have to reply to every single post!
Every day I come to this thread and every day, half the posts are your walls of text, over and over and over. WTF?

 

[DrRadon]

You will not get the cheese grader design of the 14100€ MacPro/XDR on a iMac.

You will just not.

If you don't want to take the word of a guy who studied design and worked in advertising i can't help you.
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FFS Azrael9 you do not have to reply to every single post!
Every day I come to this thread and every day, half the posts are your walls of text, over and over and over. WTF?

I like his posts.