This company makes billions being stupid.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
- Thread starter krazzix
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
This company makes billions being stupid.
Well, if something happens tomorrow or next tuesday then we are For Fusion Sake done!
That would mean For Fusion Sake update and no redesign most likely.
So, its either WWDC or For Fusion Sake Apple :-D
That would mean For Fusion Sake update and no redesign most likely.
So, its either WWDC or For Fusion Sake Apple :-D
Well, fingers crossed apple don't fusion this up!
And how many Mac desktop did they sell? Over 80% of Mac sales are MacBook series. That's still less than 15% out of total revenue. Apple made 5.35B for Mac in Q2 2020 but Mac desktop itself is way less than 20%. Stupid? Yes, they are.
I, too, enjoy getting on here and learning at the feet of Azrael9. Both entertaining and enlightening. And he is one of the few techies that I've 'met' that can speak both geek and common man. So lighten up and let every man and woman share their wisdom! We shall all be the better for it.
I think that a new iMac Pro needs to come out first before a redesigned standard iMac is out.
Thanks Azrael9 for your contributions to the forum, I’ve learned a lot reading your posts.
You were talking about the iMac Pro not having sufficient cooling for desktop chips, so I pointed out it does have desktop chips.
The iMac dominates AiO, so desktop chips are not hard to find by default. But also look at the HP AiO models, which are probably the next most popular AiO. I believe they also all have desktop chips.
If Apple had made the Mac Pro base model worth the asking price, or had made the base model more realistically priced then I'd just get one of those and be done with it. Pros in to Audio, graphics and other non-xeon/non-ECC Ram use cases have been kind of forced to look at iMacs. Not that there is anything wrong with them but it does kind of feel like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with AIOs.
iMac Pro's cooling system is still not sufficient compared to normal desktops. Clearly, a normal CPU and GPU coolers are way bigger than what iMac Pro has. There are reasons to have bigger coolers for better performance.
iMac dominates in the unpopular market. Seriously, there are way more normal desktops than AIO Mac.
The strong majority of Tier One PC OEM sales are laptops so it is not just an "Apple" thing. Laptops are powerful enough now to handle most tasks that required desktops five years ago and people prefer the portability.
Not just the portability, most people cant even build a desktop by themselves. And they have to take any risks for all parts when they build one. The laptop market is rapidly rising while the entire desktop market is falling every year.
However, Mac itself is already minor and Mac desktop is totally rare and unpopular compared to other desktop or PC. I have no idea what these people are expecting but making unpopular AIO desktop isn't that great. Apple is well known for having issues with the cooling system for a long time and they still do except for Mac Pro 2019. This is why I have to wonder: Why not a normal Mac desktop?
iMac sells 10—20 million units a year At a premium price. That’s ps4 Level sales in a world that basically needs no desktop computers anymore on a non gamer consumer level.
I desktop is not the same as a large tower model and I like to see the distribution of different desktop models. There are many desktops that are "slim" ranging from a Mac mini (Intel NUC) format to just include one PCI slot. It would make sense with a desktop if Apple also had an affordable screen and they do not.
How much more grunt does a desktop have? An 18-core iMac Pro scores around half of a 28 core Mac Pro in multithreaded performance. No surprise there as the 18 core in iMac Pro is older than the 28 core Mac Pro. I believe the 18 core in iMac Pro is tied with the 16 core on the Mac Pro. It is unclear if is long sustained loads. Looks to me that iMac Pro performs very nice but cannot hold a 28-core CPU and it is few that needs one (and can afford one).
I am not looking for 10% difference in performance. There are only very few times these differences is important and that is really long renders, ray tracing or simulations. Otherwise, I doubt it is possible to experience any speed differences. GPU is another story but overall power used scales with GPU performance. If you are into high end gaming, Mac has not ever been your platform while Windows is the platform. What would be the point for Apple to pursue this after three decades of neglect?
I think it is getting more and work clear that Macs are for traditional work while any entertainment is left for the iOS devices. That is why I am confident Intel Macs will continue to exist for a long time. At some point, iOS devices will be sufficiently powerful for also doing the heavy lifting.
[automerge]1591680044[/automerge]
I think you miss that laptops are essentially an AIO and hence AIO are the most popular format existing. Thing is, fewer and fewer people need desktop performance to do their jobs or for entertainment.
May I ask this here as we are discussing the cooling solution anyway: Is there any reports on how long the fans in the iMP do work properly? I mean with such an airflow they must collect dust like crazy. Is this even a valid concept for a workstation when you can‘t clean it after some time?
My Macbook Pro 2018 sometimes throttles down to 1.3 GHZ while rendering now and I think that‘s because the fans are not as efficient as on day one (and the thermal paste might be gone by now).
So what about the longevity of an AIO when you put the 10th heaters in there and don‘t make it accesible to be cleaned?
My Macbook Pro 2018 sometimes throttles down to 1.3 GHZ while rendering now and I think that‘s because the fans are not as efficient as on day one (and the thermal paste might be gone by now).
So what about the longevity of an AIO when you put the 10th heaters in there and don‘t make it accesible to be cleaned?
And that's totally nothing compared to the PC desktop. Remember, Apple is so lazy to change its design for 8 years.
[automerge]1591683124[/automerge]
Laptop is not desktop. You are talking about a different market.
Both Intel's 18 core and 28 core are 14nm. They are clearly not able to improve their CPU instead of keep using 14nm. I wouldn't surprise if the performance isn't that better. Also, AMD has 16 core CPU from both Threadripper and Ryzen series. This is one of the main reasons why Mac criticized a lot. And you probably want to compare Mac's 18 core with PC's 18 core.
You don't seem to care about other issues with AIO such as upgradability, expandability, and maintenance. First of all, can you upgrade RAM by yourself? Nope. What happen if you need to repair it? You have to carry it all the way to the Apple store. Is this what they call workstations? That's terrible.
Last edited:
The only workstation Apple sells is the Mac Pro and you pay (a metric sh$ton) for the privilege of upgradeability and expandability. The iMP is a souped up iMac with improved cooling and Xeon/ECC for the 0.0001% who need that. But it's not a workstation in the true sense of the word. We'd all like a Mac Pro for the real world but thats not going to happen, ever. So we keep on hoping the iMac gets us some of what we want without too many downsides/compromises, be it iMac or iMP.
This is called sidestepping my arguments about desktops.
Firstly, laptops are used for work at a table most of the time, often using a dock solution (standard issue) where I work. So it is a desktop replacement and thus part of the equation. Second, you did not comment on the different form factors of desktops, thirdly you move the performance from AIO format (PSU and cooling) to Intels inaptitude.
When my car break, I need to take the car to the garage. When my washing machine dies, I buy a new one if it cannot be repaired by a specialist. Mostly, also companies treat computers in the same way and after three years, they just buy a new one because its value is 0.
Upgrading RAM, SSD post purchase is not needed as you can configure when you buy it. IfApple prices hurts, there are other computer vendors.
So what market are you talking about? Enthusiasts? Gaming? If I were any of these I would go PC every single time because the Mac cannot compete and never has been able to. So what?
[automerge]1591689210[/automerge]
Workstation is mostly associated with Xeon/ECC and very expensive GPU. Workstations are not necessarily highly expandable machines. Look into HP range for instance. I can fully understand that you want an i9/high end consumer GPU Mac tower of some kind but that is not likely going to happen. The iMac (and laptops, iOS devices) are the very core of the philosophy of Apple computers. The anomaly is the Mac Pro but they need halo product.
Last edited:
This is why the XDR monitor has the new cooling design. Surely this could be implemented in the new iMac. The massive cost of the XDR must be down to the development and tech inside it, not the holes. Yes it looks really cool, but they are just machined in. The aluminium iMac casing is machined anyway, so a few extra holes wouldn’t be too costly. Or shouldn’t be. I work in a machine shop and can’t see it adding more than a few minutes to the manufacturing time. This has got to be the cooling solution for the next Apple AIO.
As much as I want an updated iMac (especially if 32in) to take design cues from the XDR display, I just can't see it happening. Perhaps if the XDR display was £2500-3000, but not given the current insane price.
The cost of drilling a few holes in the case wouldn’t add mega bucks to the cost of an iMac.
Yeah I doubt the cost of the XDR case is much more than $200-300 per unit max. They have to be making an astronomical margin on it.
I think a lot of the cost of the XDR comes from the quality of the display panel, and from the high specification miniLED backlighting, which is very new tech. If the machine is already costing a lot because of performance, it makes sense to make it look expensive. I don't think the margins will be much higher than other Apple products, but the sales volumes will certainly be lower.
It is doubtful the sales of the XDR will be hurt my not having the cooling appearance exclusive to it. It could become a new Apple icon. Certainly better than white cables, which I don't think look good with the current black and metal (both Aluminium and Space Grey) Apple product range.