Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

When do you expect an iMac redesign?

  • 4rd quarter 2019

    Votes: 34 4.1%
  • 1st quarter 2020

    Votes: 23 2.8%
  • 2nd quarter 2020

    Votes: 119 14.5%
  • 3rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 131 15.9%
  • 4rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 172 20.9%
  • 2021 or later

    Votes: 343 41.7%

  • Total voters
    822
  • Poll closed .

Patchwork

macrumors 6502
Jan 6, 2008
345
504
Near Preston, UK
I've used Windows 10 since it came out in bootcamp and it's fine and we switched to it in work last year and has been fine there too. Then again I don't have problems with Catalina either so maybe I'm not the best to judge different OS systems.

In terms of the HP Envy it does have some good points but there have been a couple of compromises due to thermal management, such as using the 65w version of the i7 and the graphics cards are the mobile versions rather than desktop. I guess that the price you pay for building a slim all in one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iPadified

gusping

macrumors 68020
Mar 12, 2012
2,020
2,306
I've used Windows 10 since it came out in bootcamp and it's fine and we switched to it in work last year and has been fine there too. Then again I don't have problems with Catalina either so maybe I'm not the best to judge different OS systems.

In terms of the HP Envy it does have some good points but there have been a couple of compromises due to thermal management, such as using the 65w version of the i7 and the graphics cards are the mobile versions rather than desktop. I guess that the price you pay for building a slim all in one.
I’d take Win 10 over Catalina on my 2018 mini. Catalina makes it unusable at times, so frustrating.
Even the mobile RTX2080 outperforms a desktop 2070. So much better than anything in an iMac. A 5700XT is needed for sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azrael9

Manfredi

macrumors member
Apr 20, 2020
63
63
Milano, Lombardia

Azrael9

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2020
2,287
1,835
But if apple would adopt the iMP chassis for the iMac, why would they do it now in 2020 instead of last year's refresh...?



Exactly this...Why wouldn't they do it in last year's refresh. It seemed like no brainer. Especially after the introduction of the Mac Pro. I don't really see the purpose of a pro iMac when you already have Mac Pro at the same time.

Well. I say the iMac Pro 'chassis' which...is really...the 'iMac' chassis with some better cooling and a paint job. Let's be more precise here. One of those 'cost' items is on the 'cheaper' (no k/b, no mouse, no dGPU, no monitor...) Mac Mini. And the superior cooling? How much does that actually cost? Three years later the 'oven bake' iMacs could do with better cooling. But, yes. That will come down to unit cost and how much that adds to the iMac price or whether that (3 years later) it can be absorbed into the iMac's cost.

Short answer: Cost.
Short answer: 2019? Too soon. (See above, 'Cost.')
Short answer: 2020. Time is right. (See above. 'Cost.' When the unit cost is low enough to fit inside Apple's R&D and margins for profit for the iMac pricing. Alongside all the other improvements which will follow the same formula for Apple's margins. When the price to buy these things is negliable in difference we'll get a boost in specs at the same price or if they cost more apple passes on the cost to the customer and also, occasionally takes the pish and charges what they like. See socks, wheels and monitor stands. They're rich enough not to care whether people like those prices or not. It's an ugly side to them. That's why I stopped iphone, ipad buying every year. They kept increasing prices.)

Apple will double the amount of SSD or standard ram when there is no material cost difference to itself and that aligns with the customer after Apple gets its margins 1st.

And certainly in terms of SSD, there's no much difference between 128, 256 and 512 gig SSDs for me. Let alone a company like apple that should be offering the best product for the best price. So. The mini got 'bumped.' (On an otherwise apologetic 'update.')

Likewise. When the cost of the cooling on the iMac Pro R&D is ammortised through time then it will become available. Perhaps. (Can't say for definite. It's not here yet.) But it 'should' as cooling on the iMac is it's Achilles heel.

What seems like No brainers to us crash upon the rocks of Apple's R&D, Margins, Marketing and upsell policy politics. (Not that I like some of those things. ie. Selling 3 year old machines with no price cut. Letting the Mac Pro rot for 6 years. Seeling $700 wheels. C'mon...)

The iMac Pro was the easiest stop gap whilst they pregnant paused the birth of a Mac Tower. So it's reason to exist is now gone. It was a political design to appease.

It was 'just' a spray paint pro with better cooling for those higher core Xeons and Vega hot gpus. (Bit heat sink on those high core count Intels???) It was the path of least resistance.

Now? Put a bullet in the iMac Pro's head and drop the entry price of the Mac Pro to £2500-£3500 to include i9/10 m/boards and a 5700XT.

The iMac Pro gets 'cut in half.' So we get the iMac pro with bezel trim for £1700-£3k. Double ram. SSDs as standard. Decent dGPUs. Bezel trim. 32 inch screen.

Apple may have the resources. But the difference between the Steve Jobs Blue and White G3 Tower or Bondi iMac days and Tim Cook's supply chain marketing Apple are fundamentally different.

In soul. Hunger. Innovation. Prioritising the product for the customer. That's how you get the iMac Pro whithering on the vine whilst better tech' options are available and the iMac 2019 got a half azzed effort.

Politics. So the iMac Pro keeps it's unique selling points (cooling...SSD etc...) and the iMac has better price points. I don't like it out certain features that seem 'no brainers' to us customers get kept back to protect Apple's up sell. It's irritating. And it's not just the iMac / Pro they do it on. Sure, I'm fine with consumer, prosumer and pro. But when that stretches out the value equation that forces you to buy a £1700 iMac before you start getting a decent 'apple' rig....it seems blatant. You have to pay way more even to get a deal. And the desktops are designed that way. Don't get the full graphics. Don't get the full 8 cores on certain products. Can't upgrade your ram or your SSD... We were paying more to get 'the deal' in Job's days. But his pricing was mostly 'Apple fair.' Now you're paying even more to get that elusive Apple deal. I wouldn't describe the current desktop pricing as fair deal at all.

That said, any 'substantial' update to the iMac (as rumours hint at...) will swing things back in favour of the customer...provided that new (!) iMac doesn't double it's price...increase by a quarter...or have a £6k entry price.

Apple's perennial problem is 'follow through.' It always has been. And they don't have Steve Jobs driving Apple forward now.

Though I'd say Cook was an adequate steward.

Azrael.
 
Last edited:

Azrael9

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2020
2,287
1,835
I’m fed up of waiting, so I’ve ordered the HP Envy 32 with NVIDIA 2080 graphics. Should be ok for some light gaming and it has a hdmi in so I can hook up my 2019 i9 MacBook Pro for my MacOS fix, but I’ve heard windows is a lot better these days, not used it in years so it’ll me something for me play about with. £2500 with student discount and 3 year warranty which I thought was good.

Fair enough. HP are offering a kick az deal on that spec for £3k. That you got it for £2.5k with stu dis' makes it a bargain with a 3 year warranty. That would cost alot more in 'Mac money.' I hope you enjoy it. Those 2080 gpu graphics will get you more than 'light' gaming I should imagine. That's the kind of card I'd love to see in an iMac and you get that 32 inch screen. Impressive. And 'sound' speaks too.

You can use your Macbook through the HDMI of the HP's screen? ::D

*Holds hand up.

Enjoy.

Azrael.
[automerge]1589810608[/automerge]
I am typing this from my 5k iMac, and even as I love it very much, I am realistic about its pace of progress moving forward.

*Snip.*

Which brings me back to my original point - how many people actually need to do all that?

Enough to power the YouTube empire. More cores have become desirable. Better Gpus are wanted. Cooler running systems desired.

Want and need are two different things. Depending on whether we accept Apple's sloth like version of the desktop.

'Realism' and 'expectations.' Can mean different things to different customers. The value equation of Macs vs PCs vs PS5s.

If people buy old rope for new money. That's their choice. But, as we saw with Intel, you can only play that 'island' premium game before some new kid on the block comes in and blows the doors off.

Azrael.
[automerge]1589810720[/automerge]
I’d take Win 10 over Catalina on my 2018 mini. Catalina makes it unusable at times, so frustrating.
Even the mobile RTX2080 outperforms a desktop 2070. So much better than anything in an iMac. A 5700XT is needed for sure.

You're right there: re: more gpu ambition in the future iMacs. Even a mobile version of the RTX will likely cream the gpus in the iMac/iMac Pro.

Azrael.
[automerge]1589811008[/automerge]
I wouldn’t say the mobile 2080 outperforms the desktop 2070. It does in some test but not in others https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-Mobile-vs-Nvidia-RTX-2070/m700275vs4029. Agree that the iMac really needs the 5700XT to compete.

*Shrugs. The RTX being 'just' or 'only' (there's nothing only about the RTX series desktop or mobile, they put AMD in a headlock...) Out performing the 2070 desktop 'some' of the time is way ahead of where iMac dGPUs are now.

As you say, the iMac is overdue it's 5700XT to compete.

You have to go to a £5000 iMac Pro to get that 'nearly' 2070 desktop/2080 mobile on a Mac. We're behind in performance and miles behind in value. Or yes, £3600 to get similarly rigged iMac with Vega 48 which isn't full fat Vega desktop either.

I think the point re: the HP vs iMac is that Apple could show more ambition in core count, ram, SSD and dGPU. Hopefully addressed realllll soooooon.

Azrael.
 
Last edited:

Azrael9

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2020
2,287
1,835
The ironic thing is that because he is a "bean counter", if an X-Mac and/or a "proper" iMac would sell even a million units a quarter, Tim would absolutely make one because that is more than what the current desktop line is doing.

People like to believe it's just spite that the Mac platform is the way it is today, but this is what sells well.

However, I do not believe Fusion Drives are the scourge that many make them out to be. That being said, I do believe that Apple never should have reduced the SSD from 128GB to 24GB on the 1TB configuration - even Apple realized the screwed-up and increased it to 32GB. Honestly, Apple should not even offer a 1TB Fusion Drive - it should be 2TB standard and 4TB optional. The whole point of a Fusion Drive is to offer lots of inexpensive storage for people who need it (for things like pictures, music, movies that do not benefit from SSD speeds) while still offering strong performance for the OS and applications which do benefit from SSD speeds. Hell, considering how hard Apple is moving off of 256GB as the default SSD configuration, why not make that the SSD portion of a 2TB/4TB Fusion Drive?

If Apple got it right then they would. It would give people who aren't their desktop customers a road in to Apple Mac desktop. It's pretty academic with ARM imminent?

'Spite?' *Lookat the 6 year dev' curve of the Mac Pro. Seems more like incompetence. And a differentiator for the Mac desktop to PC. It allows Apple to make more money using mediocre specs glommed to a (admittedly) nice 5k monitor. They've given up on competing directly with PC Towers, it's an argument Apple's profit margins can't win.

Though I'd say they had a good argument in the Mac Pro 'Can' if priced in the £999-£2k arena. But if you don't price something right and you don't update it. It's dead in the water. Apple just take so long to do anything right these days....and longer when they're WRONG!!!

Down grading the SSD portion of the Fusion drive was an absolute disgrace. And if anything sums up Cook's Apple, this does.

*puts Fusion drive in the landfill. Where it belongs. Should have been SSD when my I bought my late 2012 iMac. 8 years later...here we are. SSD still not on an iMac. But it's on a Mini. It's on the Air. It's the only Mac without SSD.
*Because Apple* is the answer. Until customers scream about it like they did with the crepe Macbook keyboard (which was a noisy RSI joke. *points to the LOUD touch typist in the library. *SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!*)

*counts beans.

Azrael.
[automerge]1589811967[/automerge]
what did you expect...? a New iMac....??? LoL

Well...sorta... :/

*Looks at the rainbow watch. It's ok if you like rainbows. I like rainbows. So give me my new iMac Rainbow. Where is it?

Azrael.
 
Last edited:

Grohowiak

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2012
768
793
I'm just coming back from Windows because the OS is just horrible. Sometimes it just freezes while copying or making new folders. Or the folder just crashes. I can't love a computer that acts like a 200 euros machine even when it costs 2000 euros.

I wish people realize it is not 2001 anymore.
Stop watching p0rn or visit shady stuff and you'll never have a problem.
Win 10 is probably less buggy than catalina at this point.
I work with both OS for years now and minus few screweups from MS when patching new updates Win 10 is smooth sailing and extremely stable (video, 3d, animation, rendering).
 

Azrael9

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2020
2,287
1,835
I wish people realize it is not 2001 anymore.
Stop watching p0rn or visit shady stuff and you'll never have a problem.
Win 10 is probably less buggy than catalina at this point.
I work with both OS for years now and minus few screweups from MS when patching new updates Win 10 is smooth sailing and extremely stable (video, 3d, animation, rendering).

Windows may not have the serenity of a Mac OS but it's better than it was.

I'm using Windows 7 in what's left of my Mac (Bootcamp...) and it's not what I'd call creatively intuitive to use but it's a logical persons idea of functional, I guess. Mind you, trying to find where Poser Pro puts it's stuff in the Mac filing system isn't a field day either.

Windows 10 for me at some point. Going dual platform. I have the software I use for both platforms. I'll take your word on the Win 10 being less buggy than Catalina. But I've heard bad stories about Catalina. Are we due a Snow Leopard release? I doubt it will be love affair with windows. More a practical sense of cold affection.

As for Porn. Best not to invite disaster in Windows. Every time I use Windows it seems slower. And that's with just two 'third party' downloads trying their best to 'optimise' my system. Quad core running like a duo or single core. So yes, being mindful of where you surf is key.

I'll again, take your word for stability for video, 3d, animation and rendering. Because I'll be doing that in the future on Windows...where I can get more core counts for my money.

Azrael.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gusping

AAtte

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2014
75
61
I wish people realize it is not 2001 anymore.
Stop watching p0rn or visit shady stuff and you'll never have a problem.
Win 10 is probably less buggy than catalina at this point.
I work with both OS for years now and minus few screweups from MS when patching new updates Win 10 is smooth sailing and extremely stable (video, 3d, animation, rendering).

Yeah, all that porn makes both my work computer and home computer crash in silly places and feel slower than it should. It’s fun to wait for computer to reset for like 1 minutes every time. Today I tried to make a new folder. It didn’t appear. I tried again. Nothing. After 20 secs I got 2 new folders. Nice. This is with 3700X and 32gb ram. I just don’t feel the power.

You know, I think that porn is also the reason why my W10 home computer wakes up in the middle of night and puts the screen on for 5 porn seconds. I can’t find the wake timer/process that does it. Tried to find the reason several times. Not a problem with macs. I know there is a reason for it, but for me it would be faster to reset the whole OS compared to fixing it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azrael9 and petsk

Spungoflex

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2012
388
488
I could see Apple addressing this by only offering all-SSD and T2 on the 27" iMac and iMac Pro while continuing to offer Fusion Drives (and no T2) on the ~24" iMac.

This way the 27" models become the "prosumer" and "professional" iMacs. Apple currently wants $2599 for an iMac 5K with the i5-9600, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD and a 580X GPU. I see no problem with them offering a 2020 model with the i5-10600 and the replacement for the 580X GPU for $2499.

Yes, we lose the $1799 and $1999 models, but those models are really just there to hit a price point and if the iMac 4K does see a panel size increase to 24" then those who were buying the entry-level 5K models should be okay with going with a higher-end 4K model with more RAM and SSD storage instead of Fusion Drives/




Yes, and I believe this is why Apple went Xeon and ECC for the iMac Pro - they wanted it to be a cheaper alternative to the "no limits, but at a cost" Mac Pro for markets that would normally consider a Mac Pro because of Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM.




I believe it is coming and it will replace the 21.5" model for sure and I could see it replacing the 8GB/Fusion Drive 5K models, as well (see above).





A chassis redesign is pretty cheap. And a mild chassis redesign (shrink the bezels and maybe the chin) is even cheaper. I am not sure it really needs to last four generations, but I could see the ARM iMac being slotted right into it so it could last much longer than four generations.





Agreed, but again, Apple is more than rich enough to eat a new Intel chassis design followed by a new ARM chassis design.




I could see Apple adopting the following strategy for the iMac family:

  • Launch the ~24" iMac with a new chassis design intended to transition to ARM by the end of 2021. Using 65W Intel CPUs and mobile AMD GPUs would keep the system TDP low enough to allow a cooling system designed for ARM.
  • Do nothing with the 27" iMac and iMac Pro chassis. When the ~24" moves to ARM in 2021, the 27" iMac is EOL'd. The 27" iMac Pro would continue with Intel and AMD parts and the current iMac Pro chassis.
  • When Apple has true workstation-class ARM CPUs ready they would release a new iMac Pro chassis design (perhaps with a larger screen) design around them and Intel would be left only in the Mac Pro.

There is absolutely no reason at all for a fusion drive in any 2020 Mac. A 256 GB NVME SSD is actually cheaper than a 1 TB spinning hard drive these days.

The iMac is the lone Apple device that doesn’t come with SSD standard. It’s long past time they changed that. Even the measly entry-level Mac Mini comes standard with a 256 GB SSD.
 

CWallace

macrumors G5
Aug 17, 2007
12,528
11,543
Seattle, WA
There is absolutely no reason at all for a fusion drive in any 2020 Mac. A 256 GB NVME SSD is actually cheaper than a 1 TB spinning hard drive these days.

It makes sense to be low-capacity SSD-only on a portable because, well, it's a portable and they traditionally did not come with multi-terrabyte storage (HDD or SSD). Same with the Mini since I expect it is mostly used at the consumer level as a front-end for PLEX which is connected to a Synology that holds all the media.

But as I have said before, I don't really care if they go all-SSD (and high-capacity SSD, at that) since I only buy iMacs with 1TB of SSD (I have a 16TB Drobo 5D for my "heavy storage") so I'm fine if that is the new standard and they raise the iMac price to cover it since I'm paying that already.
 
Last edited:

Icaras

macrumors 603
Mar 18, 2008
6,344
3,394
There is absolutely no reason at all for a fusion drive in any 2020 Mac. A 256 GB NVME SSD is actually cheaper than a 1 TB spinning hard drive these days.

The iMac is the lone Apple device that doesn’t come with SSD standard. It’s long past time they changed that. Even the measly entry-level Mac Mini comes standard with a 256 GB SSD.

Also the lone Mac to not have a T2 chip.
 

Grohowiak

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2012
768
793
Yeah, all that porn makes both my work computer and home computer crash in silly places and feel slower than it should. It’s fun to wait for computer to reset for like 1 minutes every time. Today I tried to make a new folder. It didn’t appear. I tried again. Nothing. After 20 secs I got 2 new folders. Nice. This is with 3700X and 32gb ram. I just don’t feel the power.

You know, I think that porn is also the reason why my W10 home computer wakes up in the middle of night and puts the screen on for 5 porn seconds. I can’t find the wake timer/process that does it. Tried to find the reason several times. Not a problem with macs. I know there is a reason for it, but for me it would be faster to reset the whole OS compared to fixing it.
Then maybe look around what's causing this.
Just cause you have 3700X and 32GB ram doesn't mean anything.
Conflicts / mismatch / old bios?
You want a beast you have to learn to tame it.
And FYI you know that the more memory you have the slower the access right?
Just wondering cause I see people here throwing those big numbers without (I think) realizing that the more is not always the better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexGraphicD

AAtte

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2014
75
61
Then maybe look around what's causing this.
Just cause you have 3700X and 32GB ram doesn't mean anything.
Conflicts / mismatch / old bios?
You want a beast you have to learn to tame it.
And FYI you know that the more memory you have the slower the access right?
Just wondering cause I see people here throwing those big numbers without (I think) realizing that the more is not always the better.
32gb ram doesn’t mean 20 seconds waiting time for a new folder. :) The bios is newest of course, we are in an IT-forum you know. I’m happy to move Macos again, as I’m done with Windows.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Juzo Fuwa

Grohowiak

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2012
768
793
32gb ram doesn’t mean 20 seconds waiting time for a new folder. :) The bios is newest of course, we are in an IT-forum you know. I’m happy to move Macos again, as I’m done with Windows.
If one of the banks is messed up 20s is very possible. Hell a minute is possible.
 

Serrafemme

macrumors newbie
May 18, 2020
11
7
I am a recovering PC Gamer. I just recently bought an Xbox One X and I am DONE with the PC gaming rat race. I own a 2015 MacBook Air but I am ready to upgrade to a full desktop setup to go along with the iPhone 11 and Apple can’t update these iMacs quick enough... BTW would upgrading to a 2020 iMac give a decent performance boost over what I’m seeing on this Air?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.