Windows 8 Rumor Mill Picking Up Steam

[Rodimus Prime]

What exactly (specifically) is your worry?

The fact that I can not opt out. That it tracking me no matter were I go and I do not get a choice in the matter.
On top of that the more services that do this the more likely that it will be stolen as it already been shown Apple way of doing it is craptature as it is not even encrypted compared to Googles which is.
This makes it very easy to steal. I know the cell phone company do it and when a hole was found in their system and it was reported to them they were very quick to plug it (got that little bit from NPR today) and I do not believe they are selling off the information to advertisers.

It more I want to know what info is collect and what is done with it and also the option to opt out. Now would I chances are no I would not opt out depending on what it is. I trust Google to be more honest and open than I trust Apple to do but not like I trust Google that much in that department biggest difference is Google will be more up front about it. Apple will not say a thing about it.
My guess Apple is collecting this information for iAd which seems to link up with when iAds was launched.

 

[ct2k7]

Windows 8 is worse than anything else I've seen when it comes to keeping things secret. I'm seeing new screenshots nearly every day.

 

[*LTD*]

The fact that I can not opt out. That it tracking me no matter were I go and I do not get a choice in the matter.

So? How exactly will this affect you personally? Sounds like an imaginary demon. What exactly is your fear? Will some harm come to you?

On top of that the more services that do this the more likely that it will be stolen as it already been shown Apple way of doing it is craptature as it is not even encrypted compared to Googles which is.

Why does it need to be encrypted? For what purpose?

This makes it very easy to steal.

Ok. But for what purpose? To what end?

It more I want to know what info is collect and what is done with it and also the option to opt out.

What exactly do you think will be done with that information? Will you be tracked and abducted? What will be done with information that showed you were like 10km near your local Target outlet? Is this critical, private information about you?

Now would I chances are no I would not opt out depending on what it is. I trust Google to be more honest and open than I trust Apple to do but not like I trust Google that much in that department biggest difference is Google will be more up front about it. Apple will not say a thing about it.

From what I can piece together (sometimes your grammar is shockingly bad), you're saying Apple is less up-front about collecting (*allegedly*) information that is otherwise harmless.

My guess Apple is collecting this information for iAd which seems to link up with when iAds was launched.

And here I am thinking this was something actually worth worrying about.

Targeted, personalized advertising. LOL. BIG FRIGGIN CONCERN!!

 

[Dr Kevorkian94]

They should change everything if not to just confuse people. Lol

 

[Rodimus Prime]

So? How exactly will this affect you personally? Sounds like an imaginary demon. What exactly is your fear? Will some harm come to you?


Why does it need to be encrypted? For what purpose?


Ok. But for what purpose? To what end?


What exactly do you think will be done with that information? Will you be tracked and abducted? What will be done with information that showed you were like 10km near your local Target outlet? Is this critical, private information about you?


From what I can piece together (sometimes your grammar is shockingly bad), you're saying Apple is less up-front about collecting (*allegedly*) information that is otherwise harmless.


And here I am thinking this was something actually worth worrying about.

Targeted, personalized advertising. LOL. BIG FRIGGIN CONCERN!!

I see that you truly are worshiping Apple there.
You bashed Google Buzz on their stuff there but turn around and find this completely ok.

There is another thread I sited a long list of examples of issues with it.
But clearly you already have sold your soul to Apple.

 

[*LTD*]

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RP:

All you have shown is a deep-seated fear of advertising. And it's been stated that Apple doesn't actually collect this data, so it isn't even being used for iAds.

How exactly, specifically, will this cell phone tower tracking info compromise your personal safety? What exactly is there to fear? There must be something more than targeted advertising, which is at best an annoyance you have to live with anyway.

 

[neiltc13]

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RP:

All you have shown is a deep-seated fear of advertising. And it's been stated that Apple doesn't actually collect this data, so it isn't even being used for iAds.

How exactly, specifically, will this cell phone tower tracking info compromise your personal safety? What exactly is there to fear? There must be something more than targeted advertising, which is at best an annoyance you have to live with anyway.

This really isn't related to Windows 8, but...

iPhone tracking and storing users' locations isn't really a surprise, nor is it worrying. What is an eye opener is that when Google was asked about the same thing, they gave an immediate response and explained how their phones work. Why hasn't Apple done this?

 

[ct2k7]

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RP:

All you have shown is a deep-seated fear of advertising. And it's been stated that Apple doesn't actually collect this data, so it isn't even being used for iAds.

How exactly, specifically, will this cell phone tower tracking info compromise your personal safety? What exactly is there to fear? There must be something more than targeted advertising, which is at best an annoyance you have to live with anyway.

Some people just don't like to be tracked. If the data fell into to hands of an untoward person, then there might be an issue.

 

[*LTD*]

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RP:

All you have shown is a deep-seated fear of advertising. And it's been stated that Apple doesn't actually collect this data, so it isn't even being used for iAds.

How exactly, specifically, will this cell phone tower tracking info compromise your personal safety? What exactly is there to fear? There must be something more than targeted advertising, which is at best an annoyance you have to live with anyway.

Some people just don't like to be tracked. If the data fell into to hands of an untoward person, then there might be an issue.

Who is this "untoward person"?

What would the "issue" be?

 

[ct2k7]

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Who is this "untoward person"?

What would the "issue" be?

e.g. paedophile. Issue is rather obvious.

 

[*LTD*]

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Who is this "untoward person"?

What would the "issue" be?

e.g. paedophile. Issue is rather obvious.

How would they acquire the data? How would they know this is a young person they actually want to follow? Couldn't they just follow them home from somewhere? Does the person need to lose their phone for a danger to occur? Does this paedophile need to have a phone with them?

The tracking that is occurring is by cell tower identification when someone is in range of one. Will the paedophile have access to a spy satellite to zero in on the exact location of an individual?

I'm still not buying it.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

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How would they acquire the data? How would they know this is a young person they actually want to follow? Couldn't they just follow them home from somewhere? Does the person need to lose their phone for a danger to occur? Does this paedophile need to have a phone with them?

The tracking that is occurring is by cell tower identification when someone is in range of one. Will the paedophile have access to a spy satellite to zero in on the exact location of an individual?

I'm still not buying it.

from the thread on the senator asking for reasons about this someone directly ask you this question below and you seem to be refusing to answer it. It showing you true colors LTD by refusing to answer it. Instead your entire argument is well no argument. You just attack but provide no real counter argument.

for all your defending of this feature ... can you give me even one positive reason this is good for the average person that out-weighs the negative ones ... just one

 

[menlotechnical]

OK, like any topic we should all be on the common ground about what we are talking about. Some guys pulled together this discussion about finding hidden tracking information.
The video is fairly short, but worth a watch just to speak somewhat intelligently on this issue:
http://mashable.com/2011/04/20/iphone-location-history/

The crazy part is, you have to keep in mind the ignorance of all the media people, all the 'journalists' all the comments on places like the Wall Street Journal. These people thrive on conspiracy and almost go out of their way to never get facts to talk about an issue.

After listening to this video I realize that these two have no idea what they are doing, while claiming that they have discovered something dramatic and private, they have only found that the LOCAL iPhone backup contains a database file that stores long lat information with time stamps, as well as country codes and area codes. Kind of like a call history you find in ALL cell phones. Additionally, the cell phone works by tracking it's relative positioning based on communications with cell towers. So the info they found was just the mechanics of cell phone and GPS technology. Yes, the phone keeps track of where you have been physically in relation to those towers. Probably moreso a mix of reliability for service - caching local locations and speeding up the ability for the device to switch from tower to tower. These boys also bring up the fact that every device has a unique ID as well as every tower! Wow. The next discovery they may make will be the fundamentals of ip v4 addressing and the TCP/IP stack (can't wait!!)

Seriously, watch that video and give us your impressions of what these two brains figured out.

Also, how come no one is talking about FB invasion.. which is really the whole sale invasion of privacy and selling your information - a practice stolen directly from credit card companies. Banks, insurance companies, brokerage firms, and credit card reporting companies spend more time and make more money without consent than any other industry. Even cell phone providers.

These boys wind up their discussion saying they really are not sure what this location information means, and that it remains in the iphone owners hands, and they cannot prove that it EVER leaves the phone, nor the PC. It is an ever growing file, which just is not practical for Apple to track of and constantly send to their offices. Probably, Facebook and 4square collect more information than Apple from any one iPhone.
Here is an excellent rebuttal that explains technical detail why these two are wrong:
http://tinyurl.com/alev3reasons

The real question to ask is - why would anyone want to hit Apple with this issue, except for their own agenda? I am talking about the press that gave so much importance to this discovery...

 

[*LTD*]

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The issue is that there is no issue. Just an opportunity for headlines.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

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The issue is that there is no issue. Just an opportunity for headlines.

LTD answer the question that was ask multiple times of you. Your refusal to answer is tell me that you are nothing than someone who will defend apple at all cost and can not think for your self. So please provide reasoning.
We have provided multiple bad reasons and you have failed to deliver us some good reasonings. Come on we ask you last night and you still have not provided one good reason must less several.

 

[ct2k7]

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How would they acquire the data? How would they know this is a young person they actually want to follow? Couldn't they just follow them home from somewhere? Does the person need to lose their phone for a danger to occur? Does this paedophile need to have a phone with them?

The tracking that is occurring is by cell tower identification when someone is in range of one. Will the paedophile have access to a spy satellite to zero in on the exact location of an individual?

I'm still not buying it.

Oh lord,

Over here, there was a pedophile, who used elaborate means, e.g key logging and malware to track down the exact locations of his/her prey.

 

[*LTD*]

LTD answer the question that was ask multiple times of you. Your refusal to answer is tell me that you are nothing than someone who will defend apple at all cost and can not think for your self. So please provide reasoning.
We have provided multiple bad reasons and you have failed to deliver us some good reasonings. Come on we ask you last night and you still have not provided one good reason must less several.

My answer is that I don't know what purpose it serves, and neither do you. This does not mean it's dangerous.

Can it be used for nefarious purposes? That depends. No one really knows a lot about it. There's not a whole lot anyone can do by tracking what cell phone towers you were near, unless you've done something you shouldn't have or been somewhere you shouldn't have.

Is it any reason to get all worked up over?

Absolutely not. That's my position.

As for paedophiles using it (LOL you keep coming back to pedos for some reason), judging by the very good informational post by menlotechnical, it's almost impossible for any one individual to access this remotely, nor is there much they could do with it that they can't already do. This isn't key-logging.

Do you know any paedophiles that have worked this into their master plans? How are they accessing it? What's the scenario?

The fact that there is no good reason for something to exist (and the jury's still out on the actual reason for this - it might be an understandable one), does not immediately mean it's dangerous and that something horrible is going on.

In fact, it would appear this is normal behaviour for not only the iPhone, but other phones as well.

There is a galaxy of difference (ah, Samsung pun!) between looking in to the nature of this specific sort of tracking, and slagging on Apple for an egregious violation of your privacy (when for all practical purposes none has actually occurred.)

 

[roadbloc]

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How would they acquire the data? How would they know this is a young person they actually want to follow? Couldn't they just follow them home from somewhere? Does the person need to lose their phone for a danger to occur? Does this paedophile need to have a phone with them?

The tracking that is occurring is by cell tower identification when someone is in range of one. Will the paedophile have access to a spy satellite to zero in on the exact location of an individual?

I'm still not buying it.

It is no secret that pedophiles have been known to hack children's computers to gain access to their webcam pictures, messenger conversations and ect. If that child has an iPhone and the said pedophile knows the file that contains the iPhone locations; what the pedo essentially has is the child's daily or weekly routine of where they are.

I buy it. Slim chance, but certainly possible and certainly doable.

 

[chrono1081]

I love how most of the people in this thread bashing LTD, calling him a fanboy for not giving MS credit where it is due are the same people in every other thread who do nothing but bash Apple and never give Apple credit where its due.

You all know who you are...and its funny you call someone else a fanboy.

 

[*LTD*]

It is no secret that pedophiles have been known to hack children's computers to gain access to their webcam pictures, messenger conversations and ect. If that child has an iPhone and the said pedophile knows the file that contains the iPhone locations; what the pedo essentially has is the child's daily or weekly routine of where they are.

I buy it. Slim chance, but certainly possible and certainly doable.

I'd have to disagree. There are a lot of ways to keep tabs on someone if you wish to do them harm. The issue is whether the (as yet unknown) purpose of this data is useful enough to justify it's being there in the state it's in. There is no immediate way it gives anyone any special or expedient means of causing another harm. You'll need a lot of contingencies and variables come together to form specific cases. I really don't see that happening. That said, the reasons I've seen so far aren't that nefarious. It actually makes sense to be tracked in this way, especially in light of the argument that it's a caching mechanism in order to make it easier to switch from tower to tower. I can believe this. I don't believe there's any evil behind it. Nor do I for the moment believe this is easily accessible by anyone other than physically by the user/owner of the phone. And then it's likely not easy for the average person.

Said paedophile *before* this information has been able to track children without problems using other means, I'd wager. Likely easier means, though I'm not well-versed in the specific modus operandi of paedophiles. I suspect I'll need forensics/law enforcement training to get a complete understanding.

Besides, your example is based upon pure conjecture. First assumption is they are able to hack into their phone. Is hacking into iPhones remoely a big problem out in the wild? Not that I've heard or seen.

What I'm saying is take the "wait and see" aproach before we begin to vilify and condemn Apple as self-serving, careless data-mining opportunists.

So it's a plea for sanity. But I've noticed that whenever Apple's quarterly report rolls around and it's usually stellar news, the insanity of our loveable contrarians ramps up, purely for the purpose of being contrarians, as if we need to "balance out" all the enthusiasm with careful doses of negativity so we're not *too* positive. I'm not referring to you, roadbloc, by the way.

So in any case, this is my position, and I'll say it's the same position I'd take if it were Google and MS.

 

[ct2k7]

I'd have to disagree. There are a lot of ways to keep tabs on someone if you wish to do them harm. The issue is whether the (as yet unknown) purpose of this data is useful enough to justify it's being there in the state it's in. There is no immediate way it gives anyone any special or expedient means of causing another harm. You'll need a lot of contingencies and variables come together to form specific cases. I really don't see that happening. That said, the reasons I've seen so far aren't that nefarious. It actually makes sense to be tracked in this way, especially in light of the argument that it's a caching mechanism in order to make it easier to switch from tower to tower. I can believe this. I don't believe there's any evil behind it. Nor do I for the moment believe this is easily accessible by anyone other than physically by the user/owner of the phone. And then it's likely not easy for the average person.

Said paedophile *before* this information has been able to track children without problems using other means, I'd wager. Likely easier means, though I'm not well-versed in the specific modus operandi of paedophiles. I suspect I'll need forensics/law enforcement training to get a complete understanding.

Besides, your example is based upon pure conjecture. First assumption is they are able to hack into their phone. Is hacking into iPhones remoely a big problem out in the wild? Not that I've heard or seen.

What I'm saying is take the "wait and see" aproach before we begin to vilify and condemn Apple as self-serving, careless data-mining opportunists.

So it's a plea for sanity. But I've noticed that whenever Apple's quarterly report rolls around and it's usually stellar news, the insanity of our loveable contrarians ramps up, purely for the purpose of being contrarians, as if we need to "balance out" all the enthusiasm with careful doses of negativity so we're not *too* positive. I'm not referring to you, roadbloc, by the way.

So in any case, this is my position, and I'll say it's the same position I'd take if it were Google and MS.

Read the first line.

Hack the computers, not the iPhones.

 

[mrsir2009]

Microsoft is planning to release an App Store for Windows.

Oh yay! Another app-store rip off years after the OSX one has debuted.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I love how most of the people in this thread bashing LTD, calling him a fanboy for not giving MS credit where it is due are the same people in every other thread who do nothing but bash Apple and never give Apple credit where its due.

You all know who you are...and its funny you call someone else a fanboy.

You must not read many of LTD's posts.

 

[*LTD*]

Read the first line.

Hack the computers, not the iPhones.

In which case nearly *all* your personal data is vulnerable. Cell tower tracking is not a special case, and relatively not especially more dangerous or compromising than anything else you've got stored on your computer.

Again, there's no egregious violation taking place here, and it's not especially worse than any other way to keep tabs on someone.

Let's reserve the lynching for when we actually find out what this tracking data is for specifically and how widespread the issue is with other companies (i.e., Google, MS, etc.)

If there is no actual cause for concern to the average person (which there really isn't), I fail to see that need to take a flip over it.

Anyway, that's all Il'll post about this for now. I really don't have a lot more to say. This topic is already way off-course, mostly my fault.

You must not read many of LTD's posts.

Admiring a winner is *very* wrong. Sorry.

Apple makes a lot of the competition look pretty damn stupid on a continual basis, but you can't call attention to it too often, because you'll end up stepping one someone's toes.

My view is: wear thicker boots.

The latest in my rogues gallery of idiots is RIM (first prize for laying the Playbook egg.)

 

[0098386]

Oh yay! Another app-store rip off years after the OSX one has debuted.

Don't you mean "Oh yay, another rip off of Steam, XBLA store, Impulse, Gamersgate, PSN, WiiWare or [insert any of the other app download stores that existed years before any of Apple's download stores]."

Hmm?