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AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula
Remember when...

gnujon said:
'Virtual' doesn't always mean 'software emulation of everything'.
Remember when Mac OS made you think about "virtual memory" - and made it so slow that you'd usually want to make sure that it was turned off?

As gnujon says, look at what's out there today with VT, Xen, and other virtualization technologies.

Like virtual memory on the Mac OS - what was once slow and painful is becoming fast and indispensible.
 

bketchum

macrumors regular
Jan 15, 2003
190
14
Grand Portage, Minnesota
tdewey said:
Here's my addtional purchase:

Wife needs a new computer - she likes the Macbook. I tell her - sorry dear, I can't get you a Macbook. My wife uses three things daily: Internet browser (OS independent), MS Office (there is a Mac version), MSN Messenger video/audio chat (no Mac version).

But, you cry--there are mac alternatives to Messenger.

Let me (re)introduce you to the concept of the network effect - none of the people that my wife chats/views has a Mac - most of them are not very adept with computers - her only option to chat/view them is MSN Messenger - because that's what they have.

My wife is more than savvy enough to dualboot - and use what she needs - with XP on Mac (once they get the video drivers working) I can buy her a Macbook (well - the new ibook when it is released in April) and she can switch to XP when she wants to chat with her friends.

So there you go - another Mac purchase because of the dualboot possibility.

Oh, get her a MacBook Pro you cheap bastard.
 

5683565

Suspended
Feb 18, 2006
586
0
Hong Kong
nice comment, however in my opinion, if someone just wants to use, MSN Messenger, Office & Internet Explorer, they should go out and buy a $900 Dell laptop...
 

generik

macrumors 601
Aug 5, 2005
4,116
1
Minitrue
whooleytoo said:
Are you certain about that? Windows apps might not recognise the partition format, but they would still see the partition - so they might not be able to copy files to the OSX partition easily, but they might be able to wipe it.

So?

It is no different from sudo rm -rf /

When was the last time your partitions got wiped due to a virus? 1990?
 

DannyBoye

macrumors newbie
Feb 21, 2006
11
0
First let me say this. I support Apple, fully, I have a mini, both pre-intel and intel. I have TWO Ibooks, Had a pre-intel IMac and have an intel 17" intel IMac, got the IPod video, Point is I don't look down on the company. HOWEVER. Apple as a company has never looked at them selfs as a software company, but insted a hardware company and I think that has been thier downfall from the start. While I will NEVER argue with anyone that OS X is a FAR better OS than Windows, reality is most people have never had the chance to even use OS X. Why? Because Apple is not a software company, but a hardware company.

As a consumer you go to the store and you see an Apple, and a WinPC next to each other (if you can find such a store that has both, mind you) and they see the price. One can be as cheap as as say $350.00, WITH OS, WITH ALL THINGS NEEDED TO RUN IT and the other can be as cheap as $599.00, no keyboard, mouse, moniter, just a lil box. Now in most peoples minds they do the same thing, on the surface they do. Granted it's not till later that they find all the problems that come with MS XP. This is why they (Apple) will never be even close to #1, because in reality most people that purchase computers don't need it for anything more than everyday things. Email, internet, music, simple things.

Software companys are NEVER going to take time, money, and resources just to make software work on an Apple to please a few people, and I say few lightly, but in the scope of percentage, it is few as far as sales go.

I know I know everyone says that Apple is a hardware company and that's the reason thier OS works so great, and runs so great, and and and. But Serious think about it. We all bash, and beat up on MS because we say the OS sucks but is it really the OS? Or the other people making the software that allows the OS to get jacked up. I know I know, MS has put out some sorry a*s OS's, Win Me, 98, yah they were jacked from the code up. But (and I'm not sticking up for anything) XP is really not AS BAD as we all tear it up to be. I don't download crap, free games, P2P and my lil crap Dell Laptop works just fine, day in day out. My mom's however, she's always calling me, it's not working, it's slow, it's this and that, becuase she downloads those stupid 'free' casino games. Free in one aspect but costing you in the aspect of performance.

If OS X had had the market share that MS has, I have NO DOUBT, that there would be the same problems that exist with XP. Why would these companys that can barley afford to make a program and have to put ad aware in with the install to pay for the software, IE p2p software. There are ways to get such programs installed on a mac, the ad programs, it's not like Apple goes out of thier way to make sure that a program can not open a safari window to show an ad.

All I'm saying is that fact of the matter is untill Apple gets market share up by providing an OS to the vast majority of people without forceing them to buy thier hardware, software companys won't really look at it as A MUST to have thier software on OS X. I really wish Apple would dip it's feet in the software world, just give us a DVD to install X on any computer, don't give us support unless we use your hardware. But then again, then all these companys that hardly know how to make a decent peice of hardware would then have to make a peice of software to make that hardware run. And in lies more of the problem with XP, and the future of ANY OS that allows install on any machine and has a decent market share. That OS is not around yet, but when it is, the same problems will surface.

Lets see MS open up thier source code for a few decades and I guarantee we'd get it fixed and running right. Apple was VERY smart to use the base code of such an OS, one that was open for a very long time and that people that cared fixed and fixed and fixed again.
 

ordin12

macrumors newbie
Mar 9, 2006
12
0
What about the reverse process?

Windows XP is horrible and old compared to OS X. So I would never want to use Windows XP. Apple notebook computers are nice but not spectacular as the design is almost 10 years old and could be improved in many areas. So why use an old operating system on old hardware? Makes no sense.

The opposite would be great. I would love to get a nice Sony Vaio laptop and run OS X on it. That would really rock.
 

janstett

macrumors 65816
Jan 13, 2006
1,235
0
Chester, NJ
ordin12 said:
Windows XP is horrible and old compared to OS X. So I would never want to use Windows XP.

??? Maybe you mean "old-looking", but, uh, what exactly do you mean? I was going to start talking about the ages of both operating systems, but I want to make sure I know what the heck you're talking about first...
 

Peace

Cancelled
Apr 1, 2005
19,546
4,557
Space The Only Frontier
ordin12 said:
Windows XP is horrible and old compared to OS X. So I would never want to use Windows XP. Apple notebook computers are nice but not spectacular as the design is almost 10 years old and could be improved in many areas. So why use an old operating system on old hardware? Makes no sense.

The opposite would be great. I would love to get a nice Sony Vaio laptop and run OS X on it. That would really rock.

The PowerBook came out in 1996.That is 10 years however here's what it looked like "almost ten years" ago


As for "old hardware"

The PowerBook G4 had the same hardware as the typical Sony laptop.With the exception of the CPU.

Educate yourself..
 

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phomans@mac.com

macrumors newbie
Mar 18, 2006
1
0
awaiting the instrux on how to install and boot xp on IMAC

but, does the XP boot run at the acclerated speeds theoretically guaranteed by the new IMAC core processor technology-a lot of non-IMAC-Intel compiled software runs poorly, and slowly under Rosetta-would booting XP, for someone who has XP-based programs correct that until Software Developers come out with their new versions?
 

ordin12

macrumors newbie
Mar 9, 2006
12
0
mistake

OK everybody, I'm sorry, not 10. I made a mistake. More like 6 years old. in 2000, the powerbook looked exactly the same. Now, it still looks nice, but the Vaio is nice too. Just a matter of taste maybe but it's nice to know there's a company innovating every few months and letting you pick among a large number of computers. Apple could have introduced tilting screens, 2 buttons, and not everybody loves the alumium case.

I still remain loyal to OS X despite Apple obviously dropping the ball on Sync and a few other nice features that they used to support and keep up to date.
 

Rusdude

macrumors member
Mar 17, 2006
32
0
phomans@mac.com said:
but, does the XP boot run at the acclerated speeds theoretically guaranteed by the new IMAC core processor technology-a lot of non-IMAC-Intel compiled software runs poorly, and slowly under Rosetta-would booting XP, for someone who has XP-based programs correct that until Software Developers come out with their new versions?

If you dual-boot, you would run Windows-native applications so the speed should be about the same as similarly-configured Windows PC. So a Windows version of, say, Photoshop would run much faster than Rosetta PPC version of OS X Photoshop.

One exception would be applications that require hardware graphics acceleration (e.g. games). Because video drivers are still a work in progress, those may not run or run very slow. I'm sure it'll be solved soon though. It's only two guys and a few testers and they cooperate online so there're certain logistic challenges.
 

Tupring

macrumors regular
Jun 15, 2005
186
0
simonrobbie said:
This is the worst virus those Windows propellor heads could have come up with for the Mac.
I's a conspriacy to Kill Apple before it's too late.
 

Heart Break Kid

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2003
574
8
Toronto
How difficult is Windows to instal on a mac?

Lets say someone like me who isnt completely computer illiterate tried to make his MBP dual boot - would they have serious issues?

With regards to the actual windows environment on a Mac - does it actually feel like windows? Does WiFi and audio and video work properly or do I still have to wait for that? If for example WiFi isnt working, when a sollution does become available, will I have to reinstall windows or will I just have to say install a patch / driver?
 

Flowbee

macrumors 68030
Dec 27, 2002
2,943
0
Alameda, CA
ordin12 said:
OK everybody, I'm sorry, not 10. I made a mistake. More like 6 years old. in 2000, the powerbook looked exactly the same.
You're still totally wrong. Keep trying.

( BTW, this was the Powerbook introduced in Feb. 2000...)
 

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Rusdude

macrumors member
Mar 17, 2006
32
0
Heart Break Kid said:
How difficult is Windows to instal on a mac?

Lets say someone like me who isnt completely computer illiterate tried to make his MBP dual boot - would they have serious issues?

With regards to the actual windows environment on a Mac - does it actually feel like windows? Does WiFi and audio and video work properly or do I still have to wait for that? If for example WiFi isnt working, when a sollution does become available, will I have to reinstall windows or will I just have to say install a patch / driver?

You probably should visit the Wiki, read the How-to guide and decide for yourself it it's something you can do. http://wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Main_Page

With regards to your other question, yes, it does feel like Windows because it IS Windows :) You are not running a VPC or something like that where it emulates Windows inside your OS X. This solution is dual-boot, meaning when you turn your computer you choose to load either OS X or Win XP. When you need to switch, you have to power down and choose the other operating system.

With regards to drivers, it's a work in progress, so check the Drivers section of the Wiki and read footnotes. As of right now, wireless works (issues with some routers for MBP), audio works only through headphone/speaker jack (not built-in speakers), and hardware video works only on Mac Mini (which means no games yet).

Bottom line is that unless you're the type that likes tinkering and messing around with computers, you may be well-served to wait. It's only been a few days since this became public so give programmers some time :D
 

harveypooka

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2004
1,291
0
Hardmac told me that apparently some work is going into sorting the video driver problem (which I guess it what most people are waiting for). I've no idea how they can get around the problem...the card does not support Windows. Will it just be flashing the card...every time you want to switch OS? I really really really really want to be playing Half Life 2 and Eve online...on my Mac, on Windows! I wonder what philosophical issues this raises...are you playing on a Mac...or on a PC?
 

harveypooka

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2004
1,291
0
I love the 'out-geeking' on this topic. It's class. I've read a bit of developers saying it'll be easier for them to develop and quite a few saying it won't make a difference. I win. 10 geek points!
 

Amuraivel

macrumors member
Jan 31, 2006
91
0
Company: Microsoft
Version: 5.1
Post Date: March 14, 2006
License: Freeware
File Size: 6.7MB
URL Type: Download
Download ID: 760


There is no MSN Messenger video/audio chat (no Mac version).

Why would she boot XP on a mac for a chat program?
Especially if the environment she uses is Mac OS X.
 

zac4mac

macrumors 6502
Jun 18, 2002
306
2
near Boulder, CO. USA
Ordin12-

Just got a MacBook - Dual 2GHz w/100GB - 7200 rpm HDD and a 256MB video card.
Hate to break the news to ya, but that's NOT 10 or 6 year old Tech. This 'Book is tight, fast and more impressive than ANY Vaio I've seen. Yes I'm an Apple wh0re, but the new Book is amazing as a revA device.

I very much want to be able to boot XP or Vista on my 'Book

Z
 

harveypooka

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2004
1,291
0
Amuraivel said:
Why would she boot XP on a mac for a chat program?
Especially if the environment she uses is Mac OS X.

Because there is no audio/video support in the MS Messenger app!
 

g.x

macrumors member
Jan 18, 2005
31
0
gnujon said:
Sorry, but it's actually you (and the plenty of others you mention) who don't know what they're talking about.

You guys need to do some research into virtualisation.

If you read my post, you will see that I was reponding to those posters (and there are many) who are waiting for "Virtual PC" to run at native speeds. You may have a better understanding of virtualization, but you need to accept that "Virtual PC" is a software application...it emulation...it's an extra layer of code...it will never, by definition, run at native speeds.

My comment, in other words, says,

"A Core Duo running XP will never be as fast as a the same Core Duo running OS X running Virtual PC running XP."

This, I believe, is true.
 
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