Wine and Beer Enthusiasts

[Scepticalscribe]

Oh......oh......moan of delight!!!!! OK, so I opened the Rochefort 8 and poured it into a chalice, admiring the wonderful head, and at last took a sip.....SUBLIME!!!! OK, yes, now I fully understand the difference between having an ordinary casual beer icy cold, an ale somewhat cold and an ale just-on-the-edge-of-cool-but-more-towards-room-temperature....... Ahhhhhhh.... Oh, yes, I can now taste so many more delicate nuances of flavor than I had previously when the ale was a lot cooler and closer to chilled..... Wow, what a difference this makes!!!! Ahhhhhhhh.......

Even though this is a warm night in the Washington DC area rather than a cold wintry one, I am still enjoying the heck out of my ale!!! Even more than I had on my previous experience with the Rochefort 8. Mmmmmmmm....... Luscious!!!! I had tried all three (6, 8, 10) a while ago and it seems to me that even then the 8 was my favorite. Well, it is right now, that's for sure! Happily appreciating all the subtleties and nuances of flavor that are tickling my palate......

I think tomorrow I'm going to yank the other two bottles (10, 6) that I had stuck in the fridge out again and just let them hang out at room temperature........

Ah, yes, the path of pure unsullied enlightenment, it is not all that difficult to walk on occasion….…….brilliant - I am delighted that you are enjoying that quality beer brewed by the Trappists as it is supposed to be enjoyed.

Your post conveys your delight and joy quite eloquently…..

And, yes, seriously, you see now what a beer of that quality tastes like at something approximating to room temperature…. you really can taste the difference…..

Now, yes, I will readily grant that the best place for a lager to prepare itself for greeting world is the fridge; no argument.

 

[Clix Pix]

I am just blissing out here.....I thought I liked and enjoyed the Rochefort the other times I'd had it, but now I'm seeing what I was missing! I've got to yank that St Bernardus ABT12 back out of the fridge, too, as I think the same will apply there as well. I've been loving it chilled -- and now I'm realizing that I will REALLY love it when it's not chilled!

Definitely the fridge works most excellently for chilling some beers such as the IPAs and the everyday stuff......and the craft beers with exotic names such as "Skinny Dip" or some such. I really had fun browsing through the American craft beers and picking some based more on their names and descriptions than anything else.....time will tell once I start tasting them how much I really enjoy them.

This thread has been so helpful and educational....it's gotten me away from just grabbing the usual beer off the grocery store shelf, tossing it into the fridge and calling it "done." This thread has gotten me and my palate into exploring wonderful, delicious new territory......

Actually, I should have thought of this a long time ago. Unlike many Americans, I really don't like ice in my drinks, whether it be a Coke/Pepsi or Iced Tea or something stronger..... I always knew that the ice pretty much diluted the flavor; I should have realized that chilling ales and some beers is going to have the some impact. Methinks I'd be right at home in the UK!

 

[Huntn]

I'm a big fan of Hoegaarden Wheat beer- "Wit Blanche". I recently tried Blue Moon Belgian White Wheat Ale and was not impressed. It had a decent wheat flavor, but had a bit of an after taste. The last excellent hefeweizen beer was a Lowembrau I picked up in Germany decades ago. It bubbled like champagne. Anyway, what do you think is the best U.S. produced and secondly imported wheat/hefeweizen?

​

 

[takao]

Aye, that's what I have already discovered, that it was not good to keep the dark ales in the refrigerator and then pull one out and immediately open it for for consumption...... Whoa! I know I lost a lot of the benefits of the subtle, rich flavors.....second go-around I experimented and I'm still tinkering with how much to cool, how much to keep at room temperature. Much depends upon the room temperature, too. I like a little chill, though, so am still experimenting with when to remove the bottle from the fridge and how long to let it sit before I am actualy ready to sit down with it and enjoy it.......

it might be easier to do the reverse:
just put them into the fridge only a few minutes untill they are cold enough.

Makes drinking red wines easy: if i know that i will be opening a bottle i just put the bottle into the fridge for only 25-30 minutes and after that the temperature is on the spot.
Beer bottles are smaller so i suspect less minutes are needed to get them to 16-18°C degrees for those belgian ones.

The room temprature often quoted (especially with red wines) is actually the room temprature from times where there was no central heating. 19th century and earlier.
Today with condos/houses etc heated up to 22+°C it's sadly quite often misunderstood.
And not only in homes but also in restaurants !

For beers the temperature description used around here is "keller-kalt" ="cellar cold". But again that is more for the non heated cellars of old
That's why our bevrage fridge in the cellar is set to a higher temeprature than the normal one.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

it might be easier to do the reverse:
just put them into the fridge only a few minutes untill they are cold enough.

……...

The room temprature often quoted (especially with red wines) is actually the room temprature from times where there was no central heating. 19th century and earlier.
Today with condos/houses etc heated up to 22+°C it's sadly quite often misunderstood.
And not only in homes but also in restaurants !

For beers the temperature description used around here is "keller-kalt" ="cellar cold". But again that is more for the non heated cellars of old
That's why our bevrage fridge in the cellar is set to a higher temeprature than the normal one.

Interesting post which makes a number of good points, especially about 19th century room temperatures.

I am from northern Europe, and our winters are cold, wet and miserable, hence the times it may take a bottle of red wine to approach a temperature where drinking it is agreeable may take hours in deepest winter, whereas it could be around an hour or so in summer.

Then, again, it also depends on the alcohol and tannic levels of the wine in question; some of my Spanish monsters, Manium, in particular, but also Eternum Viti, require at least two hours breathing time, preferably three - after which they drink like nectar; however, they will cut you with the sharpness of their tannins unless allowed to mellow over time.

My point re refrigeration was that keeping beers - and indeed, white wines - too long in the fridge, and not allowing the taste to develop, which it can at room temperature - gives you a cold numb sensation, which - if the beer is a good one - may be missing the point.

Lagers - many of which come with little taste anyway - benefit from fridge time, but the darker, richer, heavier beers, the sort usually consumed during the dark nights, benefit from a more limited encounter with an icy interior.

 

[takao]

Interesting post which makes a number of good points, especially about 19th century room temperatures.

I am from northern Europe, and our winters are cold, wet and miserable, hence the times it may take a bottle of red wine to approach a temperature where drinking it is agreeable may take hours in deepest winter, whereas it could be around an hour or so in summer.

well in our family we have some members which are quite sensitive to the cold so we have they central heating blasting at 23°C so room temprature is out of the question for me
and in summer, drinks on the balcony table don't stay cold for long

that's why i usually rather err on the colder side... because the wine is heating up in the glass rather fast anyway. cooling a once poured glass down again doesn't work
waiting a little bit for it to get warmer works fine for me.

Then, again, it also depends on the alcohol and tannic levels of the wine in question; some of my Spanish monsters, Manium, in particular, but also Eternum Viti, require at least two hours breathing time, preferably three - after which they drink like nectar; however, they will cut you with the sharpness of their tannins unless allowed to mellow over time.

breathing with red wines (especially the old ones) can be another really important point, really depending on wine/grape, depending on how bottle have been closed, age etc.

My point re refrigeration was that keeping beers - and indeed, white wines - too long in the fridge, and not allowing the taste to develop, which it can at room temperature - gives you a cold numb sensation, which - if the beer is a good one - may be missing the point.

white wines i usuall just keep in the (warmer)top shelfes/ door of the bevarage-fridge, in the middle the lemonades/juices/prosecco/frizante or etc and in the bottom perhaps spirits like vodka.

for some uses keeping wine bottles in the fridge idefinetly can still be usefull: in austria a traditional summer drink is the so called "weißer g'spritzer": white wine mixed with mineral/soda water 1:1
for that having a really chilled white wine is excellent because you end up with quite the filled up glass (usually fresh younger wines are used)

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'm a big fan of Hoegaarden Wheat beer- "Wit Blanche". I recently tried Blue Moon Belgian White Wheat Ale and was not impressed. It had a decent wheat flavor, but had a bit of an after taste. The last excellent hefeweizen beer was a Lowembrau I picked up in Germany decades ago. It bubbled like champagne. Anyway, what do you think is the best U.S. produced and secondly imported wheat/hefeweizen?

View attachment 556611​

Hoegarden is an excellent beer - but it has quite a specific taste; some people either love it or hate it.

well in our family we have some members which are quite sensitive to the cold so we have they central heating blasting at 23°C so room temprature is out of the question for me
and in summer, drinks on the balcony table don't stay cold for long

that's why i usually rather err on the colder side... because the wine is heating up in the glass rather fast anyway. cooling a once poured glass down again doesn't work
waiting a little bit for it to get warmer works fine for me.



breathing with red wines (especially the old ones) can be another really important point, really depending on wine/grape, depending on how bottle have been closed, age etc.



white wines i usuall just keep in the (warmer)top shelfes/ door of the bevarage-fridge, in the middle the lemonades/juices/prosecco/frizante or etc and in the bottom perhaps spirits like vodka.

for some uses keeping wine bottles in the fridge idefinetly can still be usefull: in austria a traditional summer drink is the so called "weißer g'spritzer": white wine mixed with mineral/soda water 1:1
for that having a really chilled white wine is excellent because you end up with quite the filled up glass (usually fresh younger wines are used)

Sounds as though you have an excellent system going, well planned and strategically executed.

 

[Happybunny]

I'm a big fan of Hoegaarden Wheat beer- "Wit Blanche". I recently tried Blue Moon Belgian White Wheat Ale and was not impressed. It had a decent wheat flavor, but had a bit of an after taste. The last excellent hefeweizen beer was a Lowembrau I picked up in Germany decades ago. It bubbled like champagne. Anyway, what do you think is the best U.S. produced and secondly imported wheat/hefeweizen?

View attachment 556611​

Hoegarden is an excellent beer - but it has quite a specific taste; some people either love it or hate it.




Sounds as though you have an excellent system going, well planned and strategically executed.

Hoegraden is a real summer beer.

This beer went through a bad patch in the early 1990's, it was then seen as the beer of choice for the Dutch Hipsters.

 

[Huntn]

Hoegarden is an excellent beer - but it has quite a specific taste; some people either love it or hate it.

Would you say that has something to do with liking or disliking the taste of wheat beers or something more specific within the group who like wheat beers?

Hoegraden is a real summer beer.

This beer went through a bad patch in the early 1990's, it was then seen as the beer of choice for wthe Dutch Hipsters.

Bad patch as far as bad quality or based on who liked and was drinking it? I'm still searching for that Hefeweizen I fell in love with, but one I can find within 20 miles of where I live. My love of good beer has its limits.

 

[Happybunny]

I would like to point out that St Bernardus has a wonderful White beer.


http://www.finecooking.com/CMS/uplo...20/051111027-07-st-bernardus-wit-beer_xlg.jpg

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Hoegraden is a real summer beer.

This beer went through a bad patch in the early 1990's, it was then seen as the beer of choice for the Dutch Hipsters.

Agreed, yes, it is a summer beer, and one which somehow goes down well when consumed outside, in the summer air....

Would you say that has something to do with liking or disliking the taste of wheat beers or something more specific within the group who like wheat beers?



Bad patch as far as bad quality or based on who liked and was drinking it? I'm still searching for that Hefeweizen I fell in love with, but one I can find within 20 miles of where I live. My love of good beer has its limits.

No, not wheat beers per se, but rather, the specific taste of Hoegarden; it has a slightly sour taste, and I find it a very polarising beer - some people really love it, and others, don't at all.

I would like to point out that St Bernardus has a wonderful White beer.


http://www.finecooking.com/CMS/uplo...20/051111027-07-st-bernardus-wit-beer_xlg.jpg

Yes, agreed.

Actually, I have had the privilege of sampling this gem, myself, and can attest to the fact that it is excellent.

 

[takao]

Sounds as though you have an excellent system going, well planned and strategically executed.

more like ad-hoc chaos managment, we had an additional fridge in the cellar for years... so i just continued that habit

all best well laid plans get sabotaged over time .. somebody setting the fridge to "antarctica mode" for a party, mysteriously dissapearing bottles, taking out out all the wine so a cake can fit leaving only prosseco chilled.

and of course the accidents like when that "safed-3-years-for-special-occasion 30€ bottle slipped from my hands, when taking it out for said occasion

(for the summer i think i'll finally have to get down and look into a dedicated wine shelf... running out of space for those bottles to be horizontal on the shelf.)

 

[rhett7660]

I'm a big fan of Hoegaarden Wheat beer- "Wit Blanche". I recently tried Blue Moon Belgian White Wheat Ale and was not impressed. It had a decent wheat flavor, but had a bit of an after taste. The last excellent hefeweizen beer was a Lowembrau I picked up in Germany decades ago. It bubbled like champagne. Anyway, what do you think is the best U.S. produced and secondly imported wheat/hefeweizen?

View attachment 556611​

I love Hoegaarden.... Love it. You might want to try Avery Brewery's "White Rascal". Both me and the wife like it a lot.

 

[Huntn]

I love Hoegaarden.... Love it. You might want to try Avery Brewery's "White Rascal". Both me and the wife like it a lot. Have had it on tap, bottle, and can.

Thanks for the tip! I'll keep an eye open for that. I found this Top Rated Hefeweizen List and people are raving about Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier. It's possible I can find that in Houston, rumored to be found at a Whole Foods Market, so the search begins!

That still leaves me to search locally for the best U.S. made Hefeweizen. I saw Sam Adams Hefeweizen come in at number 10 on a list of U.S. wheat beers. I'll seek out the largest beer store close by and start picking through their wares.

 

[rhett7660]

Thanks for the tip! I'll keep an eye open for that. I found this Top Rated Hefeweizen List and people are raving about Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier. It's possible I can find that in Houston, rumored to be found at a Whole Foods Market, so the search begins!

That still leaves me to search locally for the best U.S. made Hefeweizen. I saw Sam Adams Hefeweizen come in at number 10 on a list of U.S. wheat beers. I'll seek out the largest beer store close by and start picking through their wares.

Yeah that is a really good one.

The Sam Adams one to me is just ok same with Firestone Walkers hefe (had this at their brewery!). Some of the ones I don't like:

Karl Strauss
BJ's brewery

Pyramid is usually talked about, but it makes me really bloated, I don't know what they put in it, or what they do to the beer, but I can't drink it. I really like the flavor, but man......

I really like Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier especially on tap!!!! Another good one is Hofbräu Münchner Weisse. Aylinger makes a good one also.

Do you have a BJ's brewery and pizza near year? They usually have a pretty good selection of whit beers/hefe in bottles, especially in the spring and summer time months. At least the one that is near me does. I don't like their hefe, but I have been able to find a few other brands they have had stocked.

 

[Clix Pix]

it might be easier to do the reverse:
just put them into the fridge only a few minutes untill they are cold enough.

Makes drinking red wines easy: if i know that i will be opening a bottle i just put the bottle into the fridge for only 25-30 minutes and after that the temperature is on the spot.
Beer bottles are smaller so i suspect less minutes are needed to get them to 16-18°C degrees for those belgian ones.

The room temprature often quoted (especially with red wines) is actually the room temprature from times where there was no central heating. 19th century and earlier.
Today with condos/houses etc heated up to 22+°C it's sadly quite often misunderstood.
And not only in homes but also in restaurants !

For beers the temperature description used around here is "keller-kalt" ="cellar cold". But again that is more for the non heated cellars of old
That's why our bevrage fridge in the cellar is set to a higher temeprature than the normal one.

Thank you for that suggestion! The thought of doing that, just popping the bottle into the fridge for a short time before actually indulging in drinking the ale occurred to me last night and I will try that.....

 

[JamesMike]

Now that my friends have arrived, enjoying my 'go to wine', Chateauneuf-du Pape , with them. They are from a number of countries that like a good wine.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Now that my friends have arrived, enjoying my 'go to wine', Chateauneuf-du Pape , with them. They are from a number of countries that like a good wine.

Well, as I may have observed elsewhere, Chateauneuf-du Pape is an excellent 'go to' wine, one amply designed by nature for the facilitation of the telling of tall tales exceptionally well declaimed…..

 

[mobilehaathi]

Now that my friends have arrived, enjoying my 'go to wine', Chateauneuf-du Pape , with them. They are from a number of countries that like a good wine.

Pretty hard to go wrong with a Châteauneuf-du-pape! Enjoy!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Pretty hard to go wrong with a Châteauneuf-du-pape! Enjoy!

Agreed.

Today, I visited the excellent deli/off licence where Matthew, the enthusiastic young manager in charge of the alcohol section has managed to secure orders of many of the wonderful beers I have been sampling for the past while.

This week, he had laid hands on some bottles of McChouffe - the lesser known sibling of La Chouffe, and Houblon Chouffe, (but the bottles, astonishingly, are 750 ml, not the 33ml I am used to).

A further surprise awaited me in that the St Bernardus Prior 8 - which I had also requested, and which I have longed to taste, seemed to be available only in bottles of 750ml.

Now, I will be honest; I am more than perfectly capable of finishing off a bottle of 750ml. While questions of decorum will be asked (a bottle of wine, or port of 750ml will not raise any eyebrows, but bottles of beer in such sizes do beg questions), that is not the only issue.

The second issue is the nature of protection that the St Bernardus Prior 8 (750ml) is not just a big bottle, but a fearsomely well protected one; the cap is a cork, not the standard beer bottle top, and this cork is secured in place by many twisted and twined wires, just like the top of a champagne bottle……….I will confess to some slight unease. What on earth is that St Bernardus Prior 8 actually doing in that bottle to require that degree of robust protection?

 

[Clix Pix]

Good grief! LOL! Sounds as though you'll have to have company over to share that 750ml of St Bernardus Prior 8!!! I'm glad that the one bottle of it I purchased the other day is the normal, small size.......

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Good grief! LOL! Sounds as though you'll have to have company over to share that 750ml of St Bernardus Prior 8!!! I'm glad that the one bottle of it I purchased the other day is the normal, small size.......

Well, while I have ordered a few of the large bottles of McChouffe (a beer Rate Beer and other such sites seem to think worth a score of 100%) which will be delivered next week, I decide to leave the St Bernardus Prior 8 - in its outsized bottle along with ominous, wire restrained, cork, for another time.

I don't want that bloody thing flying off and smashing something - computers, glasses, noses, overhead lamps, on account of some insane and accelerating velocity; I will leave a purchase of that (granted, longed for), beer, until 1) some victim with a philanthropic cast of mind is prepared to deal with the cork, or, 2) they manage to lay hands on a few normal sized bottles with normal beer caps, for me.

Now, all was not in vain: I did manage to acquire a few bottles of La Trappe, Triple…….and look forward to trying it out…..

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Actually, checking the new bottles, I stand corrected. They are Westmalle, (which is also a Trappist beer), but a 'Tripel', not the more usually available 'Dubbel'.

I am told that the 'quad' is spectacular, but I will have to wait awhile before I manage to sample it.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

This evening, I reverted to the tried, tested and true (Trappist) St Bernardus Abt 12 to accompany me while I pursued some newspapers, and later - watched two TV programmes, one on politics and one on history…..

 

[mobilehaathi]

This evening, I reverted to the tried, tested and true (Trappist) St Bernardus Abt 12 to accompany me while I pursued some newspapers, and later - watched two TV programmes, one on politics and one on history…..

Hehe, you know, I sense you've found a particular favorite here.