That would be the perfect excuse 😜 ... unfortunately (well, exactly the opposite of that in fact) these retinas are real tanks!
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With the improved keyboard, how many of us are moving back to MBP?
- Thread starter hajime
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Nope. The value proposition for everyday/general (non-pro) computing is still non existent IMO. For a desktop replacement w/the added benefit of portability, it becomes slightly more compelling, but only just.
The keyboard needs to migrate down to the MBA before I'd even think about reversing course on my future upgrade/replacement plans
The keyboard needs to migrate down to the MBA before I'd even think about reversing course on my future upgrade/replacement plans
If the keyboard is ok I'll get one. Won't bail out of Win environment but complement it.
To be honest I have no real rational reason to get it but, I truly lust for it.
To be honest I have no real rational reason to get it but, I truly lust for it.
Maybe after a refresh or two when their's Wifi6 and possibly a ProMotion screen like there is with the iPad. My MSI GS65 has 240hz and it's hard going back to my MacBook Pro display or anything else.
I really appreciate all the improvements Apple has done with the new MacBook Pro 16 though.
I really appreciate all the improvements Apple has done with the new MacBook Pro 16 though.
Hmm, this is something that's started giving me cold feet now the initial excitement has worn off - basically this is the 2016 machine as it should have been, plus 2019 internals. Outside of the fixes to the major problems of the 2016-19 models, and the updated chipset and graphics, this is still fundamentally a 2016 computer.
For the display in particular, it lacks desirable upgrades like ProMotion, HDR, and the screen's physical resolution doesn't match the default scaled resolution. For a computer costing this much in 2019 that actually looks quite poor.
For certain this is a very welcome and solid release after years of flaky keyboards, throttling/ overheating and display flex issues, but it's not really a substitute for what would ordinarily be the fresh design cycle starting in 2020. It looks like HDR might be coming with mini LED in 2021, but my preference would be to upgrade before then, this has become a bit of a headache of its own now given the 2019 16" fixes everything I didn't like about the 2019 15" but doesn't really bring anything new to the table over my 2015 (again, outside of performance which is largely lost on me).
Its taken me a while to get here but I'm finally understanding why some were disappointed with what looked like a great release...
Exactly this should of been the 2nd gen MBP not 3 years later fixing issues and a partial catch up, especially given the top tier ones not having higher GPU/Screen options
This is how I feel 2019 16" is more of a correction to what should have never occured in the first place. For many too little way too late. On the positive side the 16" does present better value, however serves to illustrate what a rip off the 15" MBP was, equally at these price points the dGPU should be 8GB by default, given how cheaply Apple is likely souring the component's.
All in all likely as good as it's going to get under Tim & CO and until the next round of CPU's & GPU's are available don't expect anything better. Personally I devolved my dependency on OS X some years back and as much as I hate to say one of the smarter moves as I'm no longer trapped by Apple both professionally & personally.
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Just a bit frustrating for me at the moment because I'm not desperate to upgrade yet, but I don't want to wait until I am because that might end up pressuring me into a bad choice. I'm not as averse to a switch to Windows as some, but MacOS would certainly be my first choice, simply because it's what I'm more used to using. Over competition such as the XPS the MacBook also has some major features like 16:10 display, speaker quality, real world battery life to its credit, and on the Surface side, a lot of it is now looking really poor value for money for one reason for another.
OTOH things like HDR and ProMotion being absent are definitely things I would like to see in a new computer, and which some Windows alternatives do offer. Guess I wait on and see what ends up coming about. Maybe I will see a deal on the 16" which is too good to pass up, or maybe I'll make it to WWDC and there will be a big game-changing announcement.
Personally not in any hurry, as I wont consider replacing my current notebook (Windows) until mid summer at the very earliest, possibly later. I may even hold off until 2021 as this machine has been such a solid performer and now my software image is far more complex.
Apple's poor design decisions and lack of action pretty much forced the move to Windows and now I'm not certain if it's worth the return trip as the Windows systems are not troublesome in any shape or form. The MBP's octa core CPU is definite draw, however only marginally quicker versus this current hex core notebook looking to be only 5%-10% improved (synthetic) as again the CPU is likely thermally limited. Add in ditching the Nvidia GPU the only real benefit to me is portability.
I do enjoy Apple's design language, equally not to the cost of functionality & usability. I don't think the new 16" MBP is a bad design, certainly a lot better than 2016's poor effort. The problem being is I've become accustomed to a larger notebook with a lot more features & versatility that simply makes life easier on the road. Many of the same features Apple will never incorporate into their vision; dual drives, no dongles, adequate thermal & power headroom, user upgradability/reparability (soldered on SSD's big turn off, and prohibit use in some scenarios).
I was tempted to pickup the base octa core 16" MBP, however retrospectively it would very likely only be used at home and gather dust while other hardware does the work. I'll see where Apple goes although I don't really expect anything more than we have now until the next round of CPU's & GPU's are ready for release.
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I tried to install Windows Bootcamp on the MBP 16" 2019 without success. When I bough the MBP 16" MBP, it was exiting but after a week, the excitement seems to start to wear off especially if I cannot get Windows working.
Now on the fence between MBP 16" 2019 and P53. Two issues going for Windows laptops:
1. Moving files from external drive to the laptop changes the date of the files. As I do selective copying, using command line is a trouble. Know any commercial or free software that maintain the original dates after copying to the laptop's internal drive?
2. I got about 20 years worth of files created under Mac OS. Don't know how to move them to Windows OS properly and of course while keeping the original dates of creation.
I am worrying what could happen if the laptop fails:
1. If I go back to MBP, most likely Apple will provide excellent after sales services. However, since all components are glued together, after AppleCare+, it may be expensive to repair. Also, if the computer fails, Apple cannot restore data from the internal SSD. Another thing is that since the chasis is so thin, inside components get more heat and could fail faster? Of course who have been using 2016-2019 15" MBP, how often do components fail compared with pre-2016 MBP?
2. If I go for Thinkpad, maybe cheaper to repair as the components are not soldered. However, don't know how good Lenovo is when I need to have my computer repaired.
BTW, can we make the Trackpad on the Thinkpad as smooth as the one on the MBP?
Now on the fence between MBP 16" 2019 and P53. Two issues going for Windows laptops:
1. Moving files from external drive to the laptop changes the date of the files. As I do selective copying, using command line is a trouble. Know any commercial or free software that maintain the original dates after copying to the laptop's internal drive?
2. I got about 20 years worth of files created under Mac OS. Don't know how to move them to Windows OS properly and of course while keeping the original dates of creation.
I am worrying what could happen if the laptop fails:
1. If I go back to MBP, most likely Apple will provide excellent after sales services. However, since all components are glued together, after AppleCare+, it may be expensive to repair. Also, if the computer fails, Apple cannot restore data from the internal SSD. Another thing is that since the chasis is so thin, inside components get more heat and could fail faster? Of course who have been using 2016-2019 15" MBP, how often do components fail compared with pre-2016 MBP?
2. If I go for Thinkpad, maybe cheaper to repair as the components are not soldered. However, don't know how good Lenovo is when I need to have my computer repaired.
BTW, can we make the Trackpad on the Thinkpad as smooth as the one on the MBP?
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Apple's approach of locking everything down is simply not what I want out of a larger format notebook, ultimately I should be able to utilise whatever OS or number of OS that works for my need. Franky my UMPC is more flexible and it's near pocketable.
Reality it's a trade off W10 and it's associated hardware is more complex to deal with, equally far more flexible without the needless control that Apple is obsessed with. I really wish one of the variations of Linux would take off and be supported to greater extents.
As I've thought for a long time there's simply too much BS with Apple. If the ThinkPad fails Lenovo will repair it simple as that as long as under warranty, Apple is just more convenient assuming a store is near by. Personally I never worry about failure, as I’ve never had a major issue. I think the higher failure rates are driven by the bargain basement tier where potentially cheaper components are utilised. Nor do I subscribe that Apple offers the best reliability as it's not been in my experience...
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I'm of that opinion as well. I do think the 2019 is a fine machine if one that doesn't push the envelope. I said that Apple knocked it out of the park, and in some respects it has. While it lacks many of the newer features you come to expect from laptops in 2019, for what it does have, is well designed and well-performing.
The display is definitely showing its age, and with this update, it could been an excellent time to introduce some improvements, whether its 4k, HDR or other technology.
You need to learn to be content. You're seemingly always after the perfect machine when there is no such thing. The new MBP has a lot of pluses, but it also has a number of negatives associated. you've said many times that you required a Nvidia equipped laptop and one that can run Linux. The MBP has AMD and Linux can be challenging at best.
The P53, is a fine machine, you said it yourself, why are you spending all of this energy, and time trying to replace it when its clear the MBP is not in the class as the P53?
My 15" had developed double-stroking E (or I? or both) issue after a month. (Above the heat source if I recall correctly?)
anyway, due to the clunky launch of the 15" 2018 when i was buying a new computer, I went Mini+13", and i'll probably keep this combo for a while, I discovered i preferred a quieter desktop and a more portable laptop.
anyway, due to the clunky launch of the 15" 2018 when i was buying a new computer, I went Mini+13", and i'll probably keep this combo for a while, I discovered i preferred a quieter desktop and a more portable laptop.
I compared the performance of MBP 16" 2019 (i9 8-core 2.4GHz, 32GB, 8GB GPU) with the P53 (Xeon 6-core, 64GB, 16GB RTX500, OLED) in some tests. The thing is that when running linux and CUDA programs under Parallels, the performance on the VM is actually not that bad on this machine. Perhaps no more than 30% slower than my P53. I think in Cinebench, its CPU scores even beat the P53. Given the weight of the MBP 16" and the heavy weight of the P53 AC adapter, along with not updating the original dates of files being copied to an internal drive and longer battery life (about 3 vs 10 hours), the MBP 16" became kind-of desirable.
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So running Windows via bootcamp these days is not as easy and efficient as about 20 years ago when Apple first introduced Intel CPU to get some Windows users to buy the Mac? I haven't tried 2016-2019 MBP long enough to comment.
I stopped buying MBP's for reasons beyond the defective keyboard, and it will take a lot more than grudgingly acknowledging and addressing the keyboard issue to get me to even consider an MBP again.
From my perspective, Apple gets no "credit" for relenting after 3 years. They knew soon after it was out in the wild, that the butterfly keyboard was problematic. Instead of eating the cost and respecting their customers, they gaslighted them.
Companies mess up all the time. But it is the frequency of those mess-ups and what they do in response to their mess-ups that matters to me. I extend a lot of grace to companies that are genuinely apologetic by quickly acknowledging the fault and work to address it in a way that minimizes the inconvenience to the customer.
For those companies that refuse to acknowledge their issues and gaslights their customers by blaming the customers themselves for those issues... I take my business elsewhere.
While I was tempted (effects of the RDF?), I agree. The keyboard was a major factor in my fleeing the Mac platform, but it was not the only one.
Not sure why your still griping
on file transfer a small utility is buttons compared to your laptop price if you do not like the cmd line instructionYou only have to do it once and stick it all up in onedrive and you can even place files in the new secure vault for added protection
Paying 2.5-4k for a laptop with no replaceable ram/ssd that runs at 90C or more and none 4k seems bizarre if your intention is to keep it +3 years
I really dislike how Apple almost make AC compulsory
Big Battery endurance on dailies is a nice to have but more show than go and a ultra portable is likely to more practical
Great speakers again is just bragging rights than a necessity, useless in an office environment and unless your going to sit in a room on your own, they will hardly be of real gain vs headset or the number of BT speakers lying around the house
Typical Apple spec's like being able to run 4x4k monitors is probably worthless to 99% of us other than on paper
To be direct, what attracted me to Apple was the OS as Windows at the time was best described as shambolic. Those days have long passed, I agree as someone who has worked in the field of quality for several decades Apple very likely knew full well the Butterfly Keyboard would be problematic, however the math initially pointed to an acceptable loss.
What Apple didn't understand was the vitriol this would drive and that actual numbers of failure would escalate to the point of having to place all it's notebook's under extended warranty. In short Apple did not perform due diligence, did not adequately qualify the Butterfly keyboard and left it's customers high and dry with unreliability and crippled performance due thermal throttling, driven by Apple's own arrogance in a so called professional orientated notebook.
The 2019 16" is here for one reason Apple's arrogance, inadequacies and the mounting negativity nothing more nothing less. Said it many times, it an exodus and the trend will continue until Apple really wakes up to what people/business want out of a $3K-$4K notebook, certainly not something that just impresses the kiddie's for collage.
Apple want's to be taken seriously in this space it needs to get serious, with both hardware and software, then design around the first two premises, right now 16" is too little, far too late...
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In some industries it's a necessitation to have privileged data on the local device. Removable drives is all about corporate sales IMO, you likely have not been exposed to such scenarios. Last major I worked for placed a minimum value of $50K on the loss of a computer, significantly more if held by management, all related to potential data loss.
If you think about it logically it makes sense as the drives are replaceable, however not easily upgradable. As stated MS isn't doing this for the DIY gang, it's to make Surface more attractive to corporate sales with significant volume, where data is stringently controlled.
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too little too late for me, and i've had multiple macs since the 90s.
the 2019 13" mbp i got was the final straw, what a heap of junk. i took it back after a week.
the only good machine they have made in years is the mac mini, i got a loaded one of them last year and it's great, but mainly because it doesnt use apple accessories. my daskeyboard professional keyboard and logitech mx2s mouse with a pro Benq monitor put anything apple offers to shame.
the 2019 16" is simply lipstick on a pig, as someone else said its a 2016 machine with some of the bugs fixed. in many ways it is still a terrible machine for the price.
i just got a pixelbook go and use that and it is amazing. i prefer it over anything apple have offered in years. that and the mac mini is perfect for me, and i bet it wont be long before the chrome os gets the couple of things it currently can't do and then i'll probably not bother replacing my mac mini in the future..
same for phones, I had the XS and hated it. went back to an SE, but if apple dont release a phone at least as small as the SE i will leave apple phones too.
the 2019 13" mbp i got was the final straw, what a heap of junk. i took it back after a week.
the only good machine they have made in years is the mac mini, i got a loaded one of them last year and it's great, but mainly because it doesnt use apple accessories. my daskeyboard professional keyboard and logitech mx2s mouse with a pro Benq monitor put anything apple offers to shame.
the 2019 16" is simply lipstick on a pig, as someone else said its a 2016 machine with some of the bugs fixed. in many ways it is still a terrible machine for the price.
i just got a pixelbook go and use that and it is amazing. i prefer it over anything apple have offered in years. that and the mac mini is perfect for me, and i bet it wont be long before the chrome os gets the couple of things it currently can't do and then i'll probably not bother replacing my mac mini in the future..
same for phones, I had the XS and hated it. went back to an SE, but if apple dont release a phone at least as small as the SE i will leave apple phones too.
plus im tired of apple's obsession with thinness and nickel and diming us over all other concerns. look at their cables, utter junk. i don't think ive owned an apple cable that hasn't split since about 2008. the chargers on the computers are shockingly bad, as for the lightning cables for phones... i swear they supply cheap junk knowing you'll have to buy more to stay in their closed ecosystem.