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usagora

macrumors 601
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Nov 17, 2017
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I am wondering why would you find it annoying? Every trade or profession has its tricks that most people are not aware of and actually is the reason to be humble and not to look down on any trade or profession.

Your example is obviously based on an assumption that you don't need any skills to open a can however I am sure some people are still injure themselves while doing so. I guess there is a reason why they say every day is a school day.

Huh? What I find annoying is the phrase ("What if I told you . . .") not the actual information being shared. I just think the phrase is overused and comes across as a little condescending. That's the whole point of this thread: "Words or phrases that annoy you . . ." The example I gave was just a random example. Don't read into it beyond it just being an example of the phrase being used in context.
 
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avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,828
1,895
Stalingrad, Russia
Huh? What I find annoying is the phrase ("What if I told you . . .") not the actual information being shared. I just think the phrase is overused and comes across as a little condescending. That's the whole point of this thread: "Words or phrases that annoy you . . ." The example I gave was just a random example. Don't read into it beyond it just being an example of the phrase being used in context.
If you find "What if I told you ..." to be a little condescending I don't know if I should ask you how you feel about "Let me hit you with some knowledge ..."?
 

usagora

macrumors 601
Original poster
Nov 17, 2017
4,869
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If you find "What if I told you ..." to be a little condescending I don't know if I should ask you how you feel about "Let me hit you with some knowledge ..."?

Yes, that is also condescending. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to say so 😉
 

LedRush

macrumors regular
Sep 15, 2023
171
341
Messing up the use of “further” and “farther”. I have no idea why it bothers me so much as I know what people mean.
 

usagora

macrumors 601
Original poster
Nov 17, 2017
4,869
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Messing up the use of “further” and “farther”. I have no idea why it bothers me so much as I know what people mean.

Seems like it's a gray area of the language. Here's an interesting article from Merriam-Webster:

Screenshot 2023-09-26 at 1.52.05 PM.png



And from Dictionary.com:

Screenshot 2023-09-26 at 1.54.46 PM.png



And, lastly, from the macOS Dictionary app:
Screenshot 2023-09-26 at 1.57.52 PM.png


I personally lean towards using "further" in all scenarios.
 

LedRush

macrumors regular
Sep 15, 2023
171
341
Seems like it's a gray area of the language. Here's an interesting article from Merriam-Webster:

View attachment 2281792


And from Dictionary.com:

View attachment 2281794


And, lastly, from the macOS Dictionary app:
View attachment 2281803

I personally lean towards using "further" in all scenarios.
I treat dictionaries like I treat social science studies: I am highly skeptical and borderline dismissive of them, but I will cite them when they support what I understand to be common understandings. Farther has to do with literal distance, and further has to do with figurative distance, and if you use the terms differently you are contributing to confusion.
 
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usagora

macrumors 601
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Nov 17, 2017
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I treat dictionaries like I treat social science studies: I am highly skeptical and borderline dismissive of them, but I will cite them when they support what I understand to be common understandings. Farther has to do with literal distance, and further has to do with figurative distance, and if you use the terms differently you are contributing to confusion.

So if not dictionaries, what is your source of authority on usage? You're welcome to be annoyed, but don't tell me I'm "incorrect" when I say, "My new house is further from my office than my old house" because I'm not. And no one is confused by that. Language is not always as black and white as you seem to want it to be.
 

LedRush

macrumors regular
Sep 15, 2023
171
341
So if not dictionaries, what is your source of authority on usage? You're welcome to be annoyed, but don't tell me I'm "incorrect" when I say, "My new house is further from my office than my old house" because I'm not. And no one is confused by that. Language is not always as black and white as you seem to want it to be.
Please don’t misquote me. Also, it is confusing to use a metaphorical phrase as a literal one. I can figure out what you mean, but I’m guessing because you are using words not as they were designed to be used nor as virtually everyone understands them to be. You can use the term in an unambiguous way, or an ambiguous way. I have no idea why anyone who understands that fact would choose the latter.
 

usagora

macrumors 601
Original poster
Nov 17, 2017
4,869
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Please don’t misquote me. Also, it is confusing to use a metaphorical phrase as a literal one. I can figure out what you mean, but I’m guessing because you are using words not as they were designed to be used nor as virtually everyone understands them to be. You can use the term in an unambiguous way, or an ambiguous way. I have no idea why anyone who understands that fact would choose the latter.

How did I misquote you? Are you referring to me putting "incorrect" in quotes? That was meant to be an air quote, not a direct quote. But your first post literally said, "Messing up the use of 'further' and 'farther'" which obviously means you're asserting people are using the terms incorrectly.

There is absolutely no ambiguity in my example sentence with the use of the word "further." None at all. Context is key.
 
I treat dictionaries like I treat social science studies: I am highly skeptical and borderline dismissive of them, but I will cite them when they support what I understand to be common understandings. Farther has to do with literal distance, and further has to do with figurative distance, and if you use the terms differently you are contributing to confusion.

That’s… kind of disappointing.

Amongst prescriptivist-oriented dictionaries (i.e., most English dictionaries, the OED excepted), I’ve an exceptionally low regard for Noah Webster-linked volumes. This includes the Merriam-Webster lineage of dictionaries.

Why?

Webster took it upon himself to decide how to “re-imagine” established words in the English language (I’d throw out the hot take that he took it upon himself to dumb it down for a less-educated populace during the interwar years between the War of 1812 and the U.S. Civil War). His decisions on these spellings (and related grammar) was driven by a reflexively nationalist, reactionary bent, particularly in the window between 1806 (the year he published his first dictionary) and 1828 (the year he published an expanded version of it, one better associated with the Merriam-Webster lineage).

Webster was responsible for codifying into everyday language the fiction that organizations, companies, and corporations, following the Supreme Court ruling of the late 1790s, were indivisible “persons” whose pronouns were third-person it/its-singular and not the sum of the people who comprise those entities (which would preserve use of the third-person they/them/their-plural, which remains in widespread use for most English-speaking regions). This is a giant pet peeve of mine!

[Sorry, Apple and every U.S. corporation out there. You’re — ::second-person voice:: — not a “who”. You’re a ”what” (as you’re nothing without the many people who do the work under your corporate name).]

And then there was Webster’s about-face backpedalling on the abolition of slavery, going so far as to admonish his daughter publicly, who was very much at odds with her dad’s U-turn into steeper racism. And yes, while throwing a contemporary lens on history often opens a different level of debate and critique, that he’d retreat wholesale during the 1830s, alienate his daughter, and then publish a history text omitting all mention of American slavery, already in progress (and even extolling the virtues of the “Supreme race” of “Anglo-Saxons” as the only true Americans in his history text) further undermines his standing as the American butcher of the English language, whose general spelling of common words (like “colour”, “judgement”, “manoeuvre”, “levelling”, and so on) are pretty much the same everywhere except in the U.S.

::slow clap for our guy Noah, woo::

Getting back on topic, my go-to for English language dictionaries is the Oxford English Dictionary as the sole reference text of the English language premised on linguistic descriptivism and serving as a source of authority to account for the etymological roots and origin dates of a word or phrase (including English words which haven’t been used regularly for centuries).

In essence, each entry comes with a thoroughly researched history of the word itself. As a writer and sometimes-editor, that’s always mesmerized me. Consequently, the paper format of the OED, whose core volumes (21) are appended with supplemental volumes as new entries are added, is still in its second edition, at over 20,000 pages. Sometimes, when I’m being dramatic, I will do the linguistic punctuation of the mathematical “QED”, by saying calmly, “The OED has spoken,” followed by gently closing the hardcover volume. :D

For everyday use at my home office, I keep around the Oxford Canadian Dictionary, the Oxford Canadian Thesaurus, and the Oxford Dictionary of Environment and Conservation (for the work and area of research I do).

IMG_0002.JPG

Canada, as some probably know, exists in this curious grey zone between International/British English and American English, as some of the latter finds its way into use here (for example, we rely on the American-z — zed — version for words like “realize” and “organization”). The reason for the Canadian edition is there’s a wealth of uniquely Canadian words, slang, phrases, and usage, as well as areas where that grey zone overlap happens. Heck, it didn’t even exist before 1998, but I’m so glad it does (thank you forever, Katherine Barber).

tl;dr: The OED is my go-to reference for linguistic descriptivism; the Oxford Canadian Dictionary is my go-to dictionary for regional descriptivism and everyday prescriptivism; while Merriam-Webster, lacking a life preserver, can go fall off a log floating down a turbid whitewater rapids somewhere in northern B.C. (And I say this as someone who was born in the U.S. and raised there.)
 
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usagora

macrumors 601
Original poster
Nov 17, 2017
4,869
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"tats" instead of tattoos (worst: "tatted up" meaning one has a lot of tattoos)

"underrated" - overused/misused all the time. Everyone thinks their favorite artist, band, movie, game, book, etc. etc. is "underrated" when very often it's not and gets high accolades.
 

usagora

macrumors 601
Original poster
Nov 17, 2017
4,869
4,456
Just saw someone refer to an algorithm as an "algo" 🤦🏼‍♂️
 
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to season this topic with even more variety, I’ll add a new class of entry (for which I think there’s a concept describing it, but the word eludes me at the moment): that is, words a significant share of people mispronounce, in which the spelling of the word doesn’t remotely account for any aspect of the mispronunciation. That is — pulling in phonemes where those phonemes aren’t present in the spelling.

Number one on my list? People who pronounce the word nuclear — mouth it out, sloooowly… “new” + “clear” — as… “nukular”.

Like, wat

LTY5NTEuanBlZw.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Gregg2

macrumors 604
May 22, 2008
7,267
1,237
Milwaukee, WI
, to season this topic with even more variety, I’ll add a new class of entry (for which I think there’s a concept describing it, but the word eludes me at the moment): that is, words a significant share of people mispronounce, in which the spelling of the word doesn’t remotely account for any aspect of the mispronunciation.
I have a million of those, although I've never thought about that aspect. However, I've refrained from posting those in this thread, because mispronunciation is not the topic.
 
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