Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[WesFromParis]

At the moment the app's interaction with Apple's Health system ends when the workout is saved so it doesn't do any interrogation of the Health data after that, which would be required to determine the VO2 max calculated by Apple.

I may change that in the future but it would be a reasonably major structural change to the app without many benefits. In the past I have considered it for retrieving the smoothed trail which is created by Apple post-workout. So if I ever do that then I will look into what else may be useful, including VO2 max. However it is unlikely any time soon. Sorry about that.

Thank you for the explanation. I’ll live without it ^^

 

[bunnyechoes]

Unfortunately the app altimeter (?) glitched again; this time it stopped tracking elevation gain while I was still ascending. Considering this was a round trip, the totals should be ~800 m ascent and ~800 m descent.

Here’s a screenshot to show what I mean.

That makes the app so unreliable. Could you please look into this issue? Let me know if you need any more data from me, a log or whatever. 🙂

 

[cfc]

Unfortunately the app altimeter (?) glitched again; this time it stopped tracking elevation gain while I was still ascending. Considering this was a round trip, the totals should be ~800 m ascent and ~800 m descent.

Here’s a screenshot to show what I mean.

View attachment 2649698

That makes the app so unreliable. Could you please look into this issue? Let me know if you need any more data from me, a log or whatever. 🙂

If the Always on Altimeter is unreliable then disable it in Settings / More Settings and the app will use the barometer instead.

Note that the app uses the barometer by default because the altimeter can be a bit flaky.

 

[muellered]

Hi @cfc, not sure if others have mentioned this already, but for the last couple of weeks I have been having problems with:
1. Transferring routes to the Watch: a lot of times the route just says "not received". Tried rebooting and stuff and randomly after a few tries it worked.
2. Ending workout: I long press on the screen and then hit "end workout" but it just goes back to the main screen, as if I pressed back. Few times it worked after resuming and pausing again (multiple attempts at times), but the last one it wouldn't end no matter what I did. In the end I force closed the app and came back to a "recovered" workout, the only way I managed to end the workout.

I am on an iPhone 13 Pro iOS 17.6.1, and Apple Watch SE Gen 1 watchOS 10.6

 

[cfc]

Hi @cfc, not sure if others have mentioned this already, but for the last couple of weeks I have been having problems with:
1. Transferring routes to the Watch: a lot of times the route just says "not received". Tried rebooting and stuff and randomly after a few tries it worked.
2. Ending workout: I long press on the screen and then hit "end workout" but it just goes back to the main screen, as if I pressed back. Few times it worked after resuming and pausing again (multiple attempts at times), but the last one it wouldn't end no matter what I did. In the end I force closed the app and came back to a "recovered" workout, the only way I managed to end the workout.

I am on an iPhone 13 Pro iOS 17.6.1, and Apple Watch SE Gen 1 watchOS 10.6

The route transfer issue has been a problem forever. The issue is almost always because another app (usually an audio app) is transferring data and WorkOutDoors needs to wait. This usually happens without the user even knowing that it is happening. Rebooting is usually a good fix for most problems, but in this case it just restarts that other transfer.

You may find that disabling Bluetooth on both devices helps because it forces them to use WiFi, which is much faster.
Also it is worth starting a dummy outdoor workout on the watch as that sometimes makes the app higher priority in the eyes of watchOS.

There is also an option in the latest version of the app (in Settings / Storage & Transfer) called "Send Large Files in Chunks", which splits large files into smaller messages. WatchOS offers two transfer mechanisms: 'files' and 'messages'. Messages are sent immediately but can only be up to 64kb. So this option splits larger files into multiple small messages, which in theory avoids them being delayed by other apps. It requires the watch app to be active but may be worth enabling to see if it helps you.

Another new option is the ability to cancel any previous file transfers in case one of them has got stuck. This is also on the Storage & Transfer screen in the settings.

In terms of problems when ending a workout someone else mentioned this today and they were also using watchOS 10.6.2. This is a maintenance version of watchOS that Apple released earlier this year for older watches that can't run watchOS 11 onwards. It has a known issue with permissions which is fixed by unpairing and re-pairing the watch, so you could try that.

Also, if you have the Confirm End Workout or Effort Reminder options enabled (both in the More Settings screen) then please disable them in case it is a combination of watchOS 10.6.2 and those options. They affect what happens when you end a workout so may make a difference.

 

[zrr]

hello cfc, first thanks again for your awesome app that I still use daily with a lot of pleasure.

I would only like to ask again for the ability to merge GPX/FIT (eg. chunks of daily commute bike travels) before uploading to Strava. I had a great very small app dedicated to this (Track Merger) but Strava upload was dropped because of the API cost. There are new great apps like Tooboo that handle the activities merge in literally one button, but I would really like to upload in Strava and more broadly speaking do the whole workflow (record, merge, upload) from WOD.

Really happy to beta-test or provide any advice / feedback during development, in case it can help to make the best choices about user experience.

Great to read that features coming next could encompass dual screen with iPhone & better interface for intervals.

PS. Lastly, it would be useful as well to have a HRM broadcast mode built-in, eg. for home-trainers (I use the top-notch app RideByHearth: deserves a lot of kudos).

Thanks A LOT

 

[cfc]

hello cfc, first thanks again for your awesome that I still use daily with a lot of pleasure.

I would only ask again for the ability to merge GPX/FIT (eg. chunks of daily commute bike travels) before uploading to Strava. I had a great very small app dedicated to this (Track Merger) but Strava upload was dropped because of the API cost. There are new great apps like Tooboo that handle the activities merge in literally one button, but I would really like to upload in Strava and more broadly speaking do the whole workflow (record, merge, upload) from WOD.

Really happy to beta-test or provide any advice / feedback during development, in case it can help to make the best choices about user experience.

Great to read that features coming next could encompass dual screen with iPhone & better interface for intervals.

PS. Lastly, it would be useful as well to have a HRM broadcast mode built-in, eg. for home-trainers (I use the top-notch app RideByHearth: deserves a lot of kudos).

Thanks A LOT

I rarely get requests for track merging, probably because people don’t often use the Apple Watch for multi-day hikes. I may add it in the future as a part of a general ability to edit workouts but it would be a lot of work and other features are requested more often. Sorry about that.

Unfortunately it would be very difficult for the app to act as an HRM. This is because the Bluetooth framework in watchOS does not allow the watch to act as a peripheral. Only as a “central” which is where it reads the values from peripherals. It look like RideByHeart is only available on the iPhone or iPad, where the Bluetooth framework allows those devices to act as peripherals.

It may be possible to write low level Bluetooth code to make the watch act as a peripheral. However it would be a lot of work and there is probably a good reason that Apple don’t offer it given that they do allow it for more powerful devices.

 

[zrr]

If there was room for another tab then I would add one for Intervals but there isn't at the moment without making things slightly cramped.

And they are only used by a small proportion of the app's users (mainly very keen runners), whereas the other tabs are of use for many more activities.

I may add more tabs in the future, especially if there is a folding iPhone next year. Judging from the rumours the outer screen will be wide enough for 6 tabs and the inner screen could show many more.

Maybe an option to swap with "Screens" would be useful for us 🙂

 

[muellered]

The route transfer issue has been a problem forever. The issue is almost always because another app (usually an audio app) is transferring data and WorkOutDoors needs to wait. This usually happens without the user even knowing that it is happening. Rebooting is usually a good fix for most problems, but in this case it just restarts that other transfer.

You may find that disabling Bluetooth on both devices helps because it forces them to use WiFi, which is much faster.
Also it is worth starting a dummy outdoor workout on the watch as that sometimes makes the app higher priority in the eyes of watchOS.

There is also an option in the latest version of the app (in Settings / Storage & Transfer) called "Send Large Files in Chunks", which splits large files into smaller messages. WatchOS offers two transfer mechanisms: 'files' and 'messages'. Messages are sent immediately but can only be up to 64kb. So this option splits larger files into multiple small messages, which in theory avoids them being delayed by other apps. It requires the watch app to be active but may be worth enabling to see if it helps you.

Another new option is the ability to cancel any previous file transfers in case one of them has got stuck. This is also on the Storage & Transfer screen in the settings.

In terms of problems when ending a workout someone else mentioned this today and they were also using watchOS 10.6.2. This is a maintenance version of watchOS that Apple released earlier this year for older watches that can't run watchOS 11 onwards. It has a known issue with permissions which is fixed by unpairing and re-pairing the watch, so you could try that.

Also, if you have the Confirm End Workout or Effort Reminder options enabled (both in the More Settings screen) then please disable them in case it is a combination of watchOS 10.6.2 and those options. They affect what happens when you end a workout so may make a difference.

Hi @cfc, as a workaround to ending workouts i manually disable "confirm end", end the workout. and enable it again. (Naturally, the confirm end for me is in place so i don't accidentally end it while in the middle of one.) I don't wand to effectively reset my Watch so leaving the unpairing and re-paring as the worst case option. Hoping that the next update resolves the issue and it starts working fine again.

Regarding transfer of routes, this time I faced a different issue related to the maps. The route got sent successfully, the maps got downloaded and sent successfully as well (I could see the dark shading on the phone after the confirmation of successful transfer). But when I started the workout and loaded the route, all I could see was the route line on a blank screen, as though the map was not downloaded to the Watch.I tried about 3-4 times to delete the map and resend it, which did not work either, until some random tiles decided to be cached and displayed on the Watch. Also another issue during this whole process was that the app on the phone kept crashing when trying to send the maps to the Watch. Can you please check on it when you get some time?

 

[cfc]

Hi @cfc, as a workaround to ending workouts i manually disable "confirm end", end the workout. and enable it again. (Naturally, the confirm end for me is in place so i don't accidentally end it while in the middle of one.) I don't wand to effectively reset my Watch so leaving the unpairing and re-paring as the worst case option. Hoping that the next update resolves the issue and it starts working fine again.

Regarding transfer of routes, this time I faced a different issue related to the maps. The route got sent successfully, the maps got downloaded and sent successfully as well (I could see the dark shading on the phone after the confirmation of successful transfer). But when I started the workout and loaded the route, all I could see was the route line on a blank screen, as though the map was not downloaded to the Watch.I tried about 3-4 times to delete the map and resend it, which did not work either, until some random tiles decided to be cached and displayed on the Watch. Also another issue during this whole process was that the app on the phone kept crashing when trying to send the maps to the Watch. Can you please check on it when you get some time?

I can't reproduce the ending of workouts error with watchOS 10.6.2. To be honest that version of watchOS seems very flaky in many ways so I am tempted to stop supporting it. However this would prevent the app from working on the series 4, 5 and SE 1st gen so it would be a big step.

However it does seem that the quality control on the maintenance releases of the older versions of watchOS is very poor so it may be necessary. All watches from the series 6 onwards support watchOS 26 so it would also mean less testing, which is very tempting. It would only exclude watches that are more than 6 years old which seems reasonable. I need to think about it.

No-one has reported crashing of the iPhone app when sending route maps. Please send the route file to info@workoutdoors.net and I will take a look.

 

[muellered]

I can't reproduce the ending of workouts error with watchOS 10.6.2. To be honest that version of watchOS seems very flaky in many ways so I am tempted to stop supporting it. However this would prevent the app from working on the series 4, 5 and SE 1st gen so it would be a big step.

However it does seem that the quality control on the maintenance releases of the older versions of watchOS is very poor so it may be necessary. All watches from the series 6 onwards support watchOS 26 so it would also mean less testing, which is very tempting. It would only exclude watches that are more than 6 years old which seems reasonable. I need to think about it.

No-one has reported crashing of the iPhone app when sending route maps. Please send the route file to info@workoutdoors.net and I will take a look.

stopping support would be disastrous since i'm still on the SE Gen 1. I consider an upgrade this year but the SE still works so haven't given it serious thought. Your ending of support would mean I will be forced to upgrade!

 

[cfc]

stopping support would be disastrous since i'm still on the SE Gen 1. I consider an upgrade this year but the SE still works so haven't given it serious thought. Your ending of support would mean I will be forced to upgrade!

I am only considering it and even if I did then I won't do it until after the new watches are available. It's slightly easier to justify no longer supporting the series 4 and 5 when the latest model is a series 12.

The main problem with watchOS 10.6.2 is the random loss of permissions on the watch. This has always been an occasional issue with watchOS but with watchOS 10.6.2 the only solution seems to be to unpair the watch from the phone and then re-pair it. And sometimes even that doesn't work.

This is much more hassle than disabling the permissions; rebooting both devices; and enabling them again, which is what usually fixes the problem with other versions of watchOS.

 

[muellered]

I can't reproduce the ending of workouts error with watchOS 10.6.2. To be honest that version of watchOS seems very flaky in many ways so I am tempted to stop supporting it. However this would prevent the app from working on the series 4, 5 and SE 1st gen so it would be a big step.

However it does seem that the quality control on the maintenance releases of the older versions of watchOS is very poor so it may be necessary. All watches from the series 6 onwards support watchOS 26 so it would also mean less testing, which is very tempting. It would only exclude watches that are more than 6 years old which seems reasonable. I need to think about it.

No-one has reported crashing of the iPhone app when sending route maps. Please send the route file to info@workoutdoors.net and I will take a look.

Hi Ian, thanks for your support. With evey activity I prepare for and undertake, I am coming across interesting quirks xD (if I can put it that way). For instance, while prepping for the last hike, I sent the route to the Watch, and on the app it said "not received", but the route was visible on the Watch (and I also managed to use it for the hike), although 3-4 times with force closing and rebooting also did not help, it stayed always at not received.

Another thing I noticed was my phone app crashed again while sending the map. Then it worked properly, all tiles downloaded and transferred. However, on the hike I noticed that only some of the map tiles were transfered properly, with about 3-4 tiles missing (thankfully those parts were single trail so had no difficulties and no scenes of getting lost). Also I did not want to mess up the existing tiles so I didn't do anything on the hike to try and re-transfer.

As far as ending workouts goes, I am now consistently changing the "Confirm End Workout" setting on the fly at the end of a workout, and that's working well so won't touch that for a while. Its an extra step but not hurting anything so all good on that end so far.

I think all of it has a lot to do with being on WatchOS 10.6 and the fact you mentioned about Apple not doing proper QC on the older releases. But if there is anything you believe will help with debugging and making things better, do let me know and I can share route / map files necessary. Cheers!

 

[cfc]

Hi Ian, thanks for your support. With evey activity I prepare for and undertake, I am coming across interesting quirks xD (if I can put it that way). For instance, while prepping for the last hike, I sent the route to the Watch, and on the app it said "not received", but the route was visible on the Watch (and I also managed to use it for the hike), although 3-4 times with force closing and rebooting also did not help, it stayed always at not received.

Another thing I noticed was my phone app crashed again while sending the map. Then it worked properly, all tiles downloaded and transferred. However, on the hike I noticed that only some of the map tiles were transfered properly, with about 3-4 tiles missing (thankfully those parts were single trail so had no difficulties and no scenes of getting lost). Also I did not want to mess up the existing tiles so I didn't do anything on the hike to try and re-transfer.

As far as ending workouts goes, I am now consistently changing the "Confirm End Workout" setting on the fly at the end of a workout, and that's working well so won't touch that for a while. Its an extra step but not hurting anything so all good on that end so far.

I think all of it has a lot to do with being on WatchOS 10.6 and the fact you mentioned about Apple not doing proper QC on the older releases. But if there is anything you believe will help with debugging and making things better, do let me know and I can share route / map files necessary. Cheers!

Sorry you are having problems. There have always been issues transferring files for the watch for some people (usually those who use audio apps) so that probably isn't related to watchOS 10.6.2.

I keep adding new features to try to help. The latest version added the ability to cancel transfers and to send files in smaller chunks, but I still haven't worked out a way to make it work consistently for those people. I'm not sure if it is possible to do so.

When you say you are changing the "Confirm End Workout" setting, do you mean every time? I can see how disabling it once may help but didn't realise you had to change it every time.

However it does sounds like dropping support for watchOS 10.6.2 would make my life a lot easier!

 

[muellered]

Sorry you are having problems. There have always been issues transferring files for the watch for some people (usually those who use audio apps) so that probably isn't related to watchOS 10.6.2.

I keep adding new features to try to help. The latest version added the ability to cancel transfers and to send files in smaller chunks, but I still haven't worked out a way to make it work consistently for those people. I'm not sure if it is possible to do so.

When you say you are changing the "Confirm End Workout" setting, do you mean every time? I can see how disabling it once may help but didn't realise you had to change it every time.

However it does sounds like dropping support for watchOS 10.6.2 would make my life a lot easier!

I mean changing the "Confirm End Workout" setting every time, yes. I don't want a workout to end while in the midst of it due to accidental touches or such, so i keep the "Confirm End Workout" always enabled. Earlier it used to work fine, but now with the problems of it not working properly, I manually disable the setting, end the workout, and then re-enable it. Bit of a hassle but necessary to not abruptly end a workout, since I've noticed that sometimes when i look at my wrist it's on the options menu due to some accidental presses or such.

 

[cfc]

I mean changing the "Confirm End Workout" setting every time, yes. I don't want a workout to end while in the midst of it due to accidental touches or such, so i keep the "Confirm End Workout" always enabled. Earlier it used to work fine, but now with the problems of it not working properly, I manually disable the setting, end the workout, and then re-enable it. Bit of a hassle but necessary to not abruptly end a workout, since I've noticed that sometimes when i look at my wrist it's on the options menu due to some accidental presses or such.

Ah I see. Thanks for explaining.

 

[ach]

... Battery life is the same as for Apple's app but if you look at the screen more often then it will use more power. This is often the case when you first use the app and especially if you are navigating.

Low power mode will make a big difference and for the ultimate battery life I recommend disabling Wake on Raise in Apple's Settings app. This means that you need to tap the screen to see it, which can be a pain, but it saves a lot of power.

It is also a good idea to reboot the watch before using the app if you are worried about battery usage. This is to make sure that the watch is not doing anything else. Also, if possible, don't update to a new version of watchOS in the days before, because operating systems can use more power in the days after they are installed.

In terms of showing information on the iPhone I plan to add that in the future.

CFC,

I just loaded and tried my first hike and getting ready for a real hike soon. So far, my issues has been mostly answered in the manual and here. There are so much settings available and it will take me time to tweak it for my use.

My question is for your reply from quite some time ago. Is it still true? Does low power result in no loss of sensor data for the activities such as hiking?

Thank you for your App. It is an excellent App at a reasonable price. (I will tip as time goes on as I use it to continue support.)

 

[cfc]

CFC,

I just loaded and tried my first hike and getting ready for a real hike soon. So far, my issues has been mostly answered in the manual and here. There are so much settings available and it will take me time to tweak it for my use.

My question is for your reply from quite some time ago. Is it still true? Does low power result in no loss of sensor data for the activities such as hiking?

Thank you for your App. It is an excellent App at a reasonable price. (I will tip as time goes on as I use it to continue support.)

Low power mode does not affect HR or GPS sensor accuracy. It mainly saves power by disabling the always on display and cellular.

WatchOS offers a "Fewer GPS and Heart Rate Readings" option but that only affects their Workout app and not third party apps like WorkOutDoors.

Glad you like the app!