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Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features
- Thread starter cfc
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You would be able to export the power data directly from WorkOutDoors (using a TCX file) but not via Apple Health.
Hi @cfc Man Many thanks for this beautiful app and this ongoing support and follow up, I have bought it and I love it. Yet, I don't use it all that much anymore despite the fact that it outshines most things out there that cost 100x more.
And the reason is that I am afraid (probably wrongly so) that WOD is an island, or at some point will be one, and that all this activity I record with it gets stuck in one app in my phone and/or watch.
So I revert back to my Garmin, where software is an afterthought, ridden with bugs, and complicated to use. But I also know that, as a platform, it will have a zillion people developing for it, and that the data in there is somewhat (but not really) easy to export/sync to another place(TP, Strava, etc...). So whether it is bike lights, power meters, stride analysis pods, or whatever else, they will likely work with it. And complex stats that most people won't care for (LTHR, VO2max or FTP), can be found there, in the same UI as everything else.
More importantly, were I ever to ditch iOS or WatchOS for something else, I would likely be able to keep gong with the same sports watch and UI. I can't do this with WOD.
I did ask you about syncing to more platforms in the past and I remember your answer saying it was not easy to be allowed to do that, which I understand. And i would also love a broader panoply of third party HW that worked with WOD, which I know is difficult because of the way Apple is doing things in WatchOS and iOS.
But is there any possibility that in the future (I don't expect dates!) you might go towards broader syncing? or figure out a way to integrate more sensors?
thanks so much again, and keep up the great work!
And the reason is that I am afraid (probably wrongly so) that WOD is an island, or at some point will be one, and that all this activity I record with it gets stuck in one app in my phone and/or watch.
So I revert back to my Garmin, where software is an afterthought, ridden with bugs, and complicated to use. But I also know that, as a platform, it will have a zillion people developing for it, and that the data in there is somewhat (but not really) easy to export/sync to another place(TP, Strava, etc...). So whether it is bike lights, power meters, stride analysis pods, or whatever else, they will likely work with it. And complex stats that most people won't care for (LTHR, VO2max or FTP), can be found there, in the same UI as everything else.
More importantly, were I ever to ditch iOS or WatchOS for something else, I would likely be able to keep gong with the same sports watch and UI. I can't do this with WOD.
I did ask you about syncing to more platforms in the past and I remember your answer saying it was not easy to be allowed to do that, which I understand. And i would also love a broader panoply of third party HW that worked with WOD, which I know is difficult because of the way Apple is doing things in WatchOS and iOS.
But is there any possibility that in the future (I don't expect dates!) you might go towards broader syncing? or figure out a way to integrate more sensors?
thanks so much again, and keep up the great work!
WOD can sync with a lot of platforms with GPX, TCX exports, and direct Strava sync.
You can also use the excelent Healtfit app to sync all workout data to a big number of platforms.
WOD is not an island, there a lot of bridges end flexibility, WOD just the app you use to run/bike, not the app you use to analyze/compare.
You can also use the excelent Healtfit app to sync all workout data to a big number of platforms.
WOD is not an island, there a lot of bridges end flexibility, WOD just the app you use to run/bike, not the app you use to analyze/compare.
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Just to add, besides Healthfit, there is also rungab supporting even more platforms including Garmin Connect. But you can import manually to garmin (https://connect.garmin.com/modern/import-data) so they are not stritcly required. I manually import from stryd this way, to get all data that stryd generate but Apple Health does not store.
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Thanks for your kind words about the app. In my eyes WorkOutDoors is mainly intended to create workouts. It does store them and also provides pretty detailed analysis, but that isn't the main role of the app.
I think of the overall workout environment as containing apps that create workouts and apps/systems that analyse them. There are lots of advantages to this separation. For example the ability to use different apps for different activity types but still be able to analyse overall activity. And if you change the app you use to create workouts then no data is lost and the analysis side of the environment doesn't change at all.
Most users store and analyse their data in systems such as Strava, Garmin, Runalyze etc. WorkOutDoors provides syncing to Strava (which will be automatic in the next version) but tools such as HealthFit allow you to automatically sync to various other platforms.
Every workout is also stored in Apple's Health system, so workout data created with WorkOutDoors will never be lost even if you do not use systems such as Strava. I think there is a gap in the market for an iOS app that provides detailed analysis of the workouts in Apple Health in the same way that Strava etc provide for uploaded workouts.
So for most people if WorkOutDoors were to suddenly disappear then it wouldn't be an issue, apart from that maybe workouts would be slightly less fun!
Yes, there are third party tools , some good, some less good, and they too might or might not support this or that app, and even when they do, it might not have this or that field. It is a mess really. Imagine contact or Calendar syncing was this complicated??
And as for direct Syncing, there is only Strava, and it is not a sync, it is a one off push that has to be done manually, for each individual activity.
and what about bringing stuff back into WOD? Also not ideal.
what I am saying is that there is friction and Uncertainty when it vingts to the data generated with WOD. And there is enough of it for me to go to the biggest platform not because it is better, but it is more common and pervasive.
And as for direct Syncing, there is only Strava, and it is not a sync, it is a one off push that has to be done manually, for each individual activity.
and what about bringing stuff back into WOD? Also not ideal.
what I am saying is that there is friction and Uncertainty when it vingts to the data generated with WOD. And there is enough of it for me to go to the biggest platform not because it is better, but it is more common and pervasive.
I think you should direct your criticism towards Apple, since WOD like other trackers write to Apple Health. They are the one, who should make a better iPad/Mac/online version of activity.
I have a Garmin Vivosmart 4 and boy did Garmin have problem getting sync to work on ios13. Finally after 5-6 firmware updates and many month of agony did they manage to make it reliable. But I don't trust it for activity tracking. The HR sensor I simply not trustworthy compared to my AW4 (which is why I import Apple watch activities to Garmin connect).
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Oh my god! I really don't want this to be seen as criticism, and if it is, I would hope it would be constructive.
I totally agree with you @Significant1 , the other stuff sucks.
But wherever there is something new (a new zwift, or a connected rower, or a new power meter, or a bike radar, or some fancy lights, or a new sports platform, or whatever else) Garmin will be considered and more likely than not ity will work with that.
I have friends who have wahoos and are dumping them because the pedal based power meters they just bought don't have all the stats they want whereas the Garmin does.
I know that is rather specific, but think of Suntoo or Polar - they are lost and stand no chance against the Garmin juggernaut.
And at the same time, I completely agree with @cfc and his vision that WOD is an activity logging device, nothing more. This is what I am looking for too, and in that respect, WOD is utterly brilliant. Even hardcore endurance bloggers like DC Rainmaker say so.
And in the end, ALL these devices do nothing more than record a GPS track with a heartbeat. What makes them so special is their UI (or lack thereof!) And the ability to integrate with the world out there.
And this is where WOD could make a real difference - instead of file import export and push button push to Strava, a blanket approach: Training Peaks, Sufferfest, trainer road, Garmin, Strava, Apple health, etc etc... Not every platform, but the majors.
I know it is a big ask, but it would make users feel better that all they put in to WOD will always have a place to go without having to file export.
I totally agree with you @Significant1 , the other stuff sucks.
But wherever there is something new (a new zwift, or a connected rower, or a new power meter, or a bike radar, or some fancy lights, or a new sports platform, or whatever else) Garmin will be considered and more likely than not ity will work with that.
I have friends who have wahoos and are dumping them because the pedal based power meters they just bought don't have all the stats they want whereas the Garmin does.
I know that is rather specific, but think of Suntoo or Polar - they are lost and stand no chance against the Garmin juggernaut.
And at the same time, I completely agree with @cfc and his vision that WOD is an activity logging device, nothing more. This is what I am looking for too, and in that respect, WOD is utterly brilliant. Even hardcore endurance bloggers like DC Rainmaker say so.
And in the end, ALL these devices do nothing more than record a GPS track with a heartbeat. What makes them so special is their UI (or lack thereof!) And the ability to integrate with the world out there.
And this is where WOD could make a real difference - instead of file import export and push button push to Strava, a blanket approach: Training Peaks, Sufferfest, trainer road, Garmin, Strava, Apple health, etc etc... Not every platform, but the majors.
I know it is a big ask, but it would make users feel better that all they put in to WOD will always have a place to go without having to file export.
Do you use HealthFit? That provides automatic upload to most of the major platforms, which is one of the reasons that I do not include uploading functionality (apart from to Strava which was more requested than all the other platforms put together).
In terms of sensor support, I think this is down to Apple. I could spend lots of time writing different code for each type and brand of sensor, but it would be so much easier if Apple added it natively to watchOS, like they have with external heart rate sensors. They haven't announced any workout improvements for almost 2 years so hopefully they will make up for that soon in iOS 14 / watchOS 7.
I am not optimistic that Apple will provide watchOS support for footpods. Would say this is a very small niche product and even Garmin wanted to throw out support for their watches some years ago.
Maybe you can get in touch with the author of ismoothrun? His application seems to be out of life now and he supports the two relevant footpods (Stryd and Milestone/Zwiftpod).
Maybe you can get in touch with the author of ismoothrun? His application seems to be out of life now and he supports the two relevant footpods (Stryd and Milestone/Zwiftpod).
I am not optimistic either. The pessimist in me wonders if they have given up on improving the workout functionality after the complete absence of new features last year, but that is hopefully unlikely. I will wait until after WWDC before deciding what to concentrate on next. The plan is to get a new version out before the (virtual) conference and then be prepared to react to whatever is announced. If nothing new is announced again then Stryd is high on my to-do list.
Maybe you could also ask the Stryd developers for help. Referencing the large community of WOD users it should be good for them to support another platform. Maybe just with a donation of a footpod adapter code.
One of the developers is quite active in the Stryd AW facebook group.
One of the developers is quite active in the Stryd AW facebook group.
I got in touch with the Stryd developers a while ago and they were very helpful. It is not a case of being unable to do it, but more that I don't want to spend time on it now. If I started it now then it would probably be released just about the time that Apple may announce that they have done it for me.
I get quite a few requests for Stryd and I will add it at some point but I am always slightly reluctant to spend time on something that really should be done by Apple. If they intend the Apple Watch to be comparable to high-end smartwatches from the likes of Garmin etc (and I hope they do) then they need to match the sensor compatibility of those companies.
However if they do not provide this compatibility then I will probably add it myself, starting with Stryd. It depends on what they announce at the developer conference, which could always change my priorities.
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Yes, just wait for 5 blue bars in the signal meter at the top left of the main WorkOutDoors menu. This shows the GPS signal strength.
If you do not want the countdown then you can switch it off in the settings. To do this press the watch screen hard and tap "Settings" then "More" and then turn off the "Show 3-2-1 Countdown" switch.
Awesome! Finally, do you know if running the Stryd app or iSmoothRun (I know, more Stryd questions) in the background while keeping WOD open would work?
To me, Stryd compatibility is the main thing that makes the Apple Watch an actual serious tool for running.
It’d be a shame to have to wait until WOD is finally able to “talk” to Stryd.
watchOS only allows one workout to be running at once so starting a workout on another app will stop it on any app running a workout. In terms of WorkOutDoors the app will still keep running but some of the metrics won’t work and the data won’t be stored in Apple’s Health system.
So the order in which you start workouts on each app makes a big difference.
I don’t specifically support using the app in that way, because it is unpredictable, but it may work for you depending on what you need.
I see an outdoor swim option in the app. We are finishing a pool and I have a tether for now and looking at adding an endless pool. Was wondering if that would be a good workout to use for stationary swimming? I know it won’t track distance (obviously) but does WOD do stroke detection and would this give a good measure of calories? Just curious if anyone has any experience with a use like that. Thanks!
The outdoor swim option is only available in the current beta. It uses Apple’s workout system for calculating calories so should be a reasonable measure.
I was going to include pool swimming as well but so few people are able to test it at the moment that I decided not to.
Thanks for testing the app!
Still using this app. Still love it. Still would subscribe for pro features should it go that way (weather reports, etc).
I have an unusual request, but I'll try and explain. The routes that show up on the watch face. Is it possible to have these show only, say, the first 0.25km of a route, and it then it starts showing the rest of the route, as you run? So it's only showing the next 0.25km ahead of you? Or even just a colour change. Route is grey, but the next 0.25km is green or whatever?
I'm trying the #EverySingleStreet challenge for my area, and the overly complex routes I have to make (no grid system here) overlap a lot and make it impossible to see where I should be going next. See attached photo.
I have an unusual request, but I'll try and explain. The routes that show up on the watch face. Is it possible to have these show only, say, the first 0.25km of a route, and it then it starts showing the rest of the route, as you run? So it's only showing the next 0.25km ahead of you? Or even just a colour change. Route is grey, but the next 0.25km is green or whatever?
I'm trying the #EverySingleStreet challenge for my area, and the overly complex routes I have to make (no grid system here) overlap a lot and make it impossible to see where I should be going next. See attached photo.
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No-one has ever asked for that before but your screenshot clearly shows why you would want it! It would not be easy at the moment but I plan to improve the route functionality in ways that would make it easier, so I will bear it in mind when I make those changes.
On similar lines the next version will have an option to restrict the breadcrumbs to a short "tail". This is to avoid loads of overlapping breadcrumbs when you repeat the same route, for example when running around a track.
The breadcrumbs tail being short would be a huge assistance! Thank you for that!
Would it be cheeky for me to ask to be part of the beta? I love this app. It's probably the most used app for me outside of WhatsApp.
Not cheeky at all. It would be great if you could test the app. Please email me at info@workoutdoors.net and I will add you to the beta program.
@cfc First of all, I got to say thanks for being so active on these forums and for addressing comments as they come up! Great app too!
I noticed that if you have the voice command on for pause/resume the activity that is stops the audio from other apps (in my case, a podcast). The podcast won't continue playing after the voice command is finished. I tried to restart my podcast from the now playing feature and also tried by reopening the podcast app but neither of these solved the issue. If you turn the voice commands off for play/pause, there is no issue. Somehow the two sources of audio conflict with each other.
I noticed that if you have the voice command on for pause/resume the activity that is stops the audio from other apps (in my case, a podcast). The podcast won't continue playing after the voice command is finished. I tried to restart my podcast from the now playing feature and also tried by reopening the podcast app but neither of these solved the issue. If you turn the voice commands off for play/pause, there is no issue. Somehow the two sources of audio conflict with each other.