Worth upgrading to El Capitan?

[WizardHunt]

OP> I would not be scared off by some of the complaints about El Capitan. This happens with every single OS upgrade. A small number of people have trouble and they rightfully complain, but that does not paint the whole picture. There are bajillions of us who have upgraded with no problems but we don't make threads to report that.

I think some of the reason you are seeing more problem reports with El Capitan is the implementation of system integrity protection (SIP). SIP broke a lot of third party utilities and some apps.

tl;dr Make a backup and upgrade to El Capitan.

That may be part of it, but some users are having mail problems still, and now USB problems, and battery drain issues. I still don't trust El Capitan at this point of time. Heck I may even wait for the next operating system. Maybe it will be more stable and Apple may have learned from this mess.

 

[AZhappyjack]

That may be part of it, but some users are having mail problems still, and now USB problems, and battery drain issues. I still don't trust El Capitan at this point of time. Heck I may even wait for the next operating system. Maybe it will be more stable and Apple may have learned from this mess.

Yep. Keep spreading the FUD.

I've been running El Capitan from beta 2 on three of my four Macs... the fourth one is my "daily driver" and I didn't upgrade it until beta 4... no issues here on a 2011 iMac, 2010 Mac Mini, 2013 MBA and my 2012 rMPB.

As @Weaselboy said, make a backup and upgrade.

 

[WizardHunt]

Yep. Keep spreading the FUD.

I've been running El Capitan from beta 2 on 3 of my 4 Macs... the fourth one is my "daily driver" and I didn't upgrade it until beta 4... no issues here on a 2011 iMac, 2010 Mac Mini, 2013 MBA and my 2012 rMPB.

As @Weaselboy said, make a backup and upgrade.

I may consider upgrading once 10.11.3 comes out. I already have my drive cloned in case I want to revert back. Maybe over Christmas break I may consider it sooner. But we will see.

 

[George Dawes]

Sum el crapitan up in 2 words :

Complete Disaster

 

[Ebenezum]

Yep. Keep spreading the FUD.

I've been running El Capitan from beta 2 on three of my four Macs... the fourth one is my "daily driver" and I didn't upgrade it until beta 4... no issues here on a 2011 iMac, 2010 Mac Mini, 2013 MBA and my 2012 rMPB.

As @Weaselboy said, make a backup and upgrade.

I am not saying that El Capitan doesn't have any potential. However current version is about the same quality I would expect from beta release. Having my email destroyed (I of course made clone before upgrade so I didn't loose anything permanently) during the upgrade, problems with Spotlight, amputated Disk Utility and many minor issues means that El Capitan needs very serious improvements before I consider installing it.

I'm currently back in Mavericks because it is far more stable for my needs. Why fix something that isn't broke?

 

[Queen6]

To keep Yosemite over El Capitan is a non sense imho

Until you find that 10.11 breaks your workflow with Apple`s own applications, let alone 3rd party. El Capitan brings little to the user who has a solid working system, eye candy over stability is never a prudent choice. Performance enhancements are geared towards the UI not productivity, SIP is a step in the right direction, equally not essential.

Anyone considering 10.11 should ensure that they have at a minimum a bootable clone of their previous OS (not TM). Since 10.10 the stability of OS X has become very dependent on your hardware & software install. Focus these days is more biased towards marketing & sales not quality of the software, this has been evident for some time.

Q-6

 

[Max(IT)]

Until you find that 10.11 breaks your workflow with Apple`s own applications, let alone 3rd party. El Capitan brings little to the user who has a solid working system, eye candy over stability is never a prudent choice. Performance enhancements are geared towards the UI not productivity, SIP is a step in the right direction, equally not essential.

Anyone considering 10.11 should ensure that they have at a minimum a bootable clone of their previous OS (not TM). Since 10.10 the stability of OS X has become very dependent on your hardware & software install. Focus these days is more biased towards marketing & sales not quality of the software, this has been evident for some time.

Q-6

I can't see so much about eye candy in 10.11 over 10.10, but I can see performance enhancements and stability.
Yosemite is by far the worst OS X iteration so far and the only one, literally, I avoided.

 

[Queen6]

I can't see so much about eye candy in 10.11 over 10.10, but I can see performance enhancements and stability.
Yosemite is by far the worst OS X iteration so far and the only one, literally, I avoided.

My point exactly, we both own Apple hardware, we have both experienced 10.10 & 10.11 yet the result is far from the same. All being equal basic functionality of the OS should be a none issue, however it`s not, nor is it for many others. This rather points to inconsistency in the OS across Apple`s own limited hardware, compounded by the short development cycle.

My own Mac`s are used heavily for work purpose; I have seen more crashes, application issues (Apple software) with 10.11 than I have observed since OS X was implemented by Apple? Inversely Yosemite has been absolutely rock solid even on the 12" rMB? I don't suggest that one iteration of the OS is better than the other, I do suggest that Apple`s priorities are Apple`s not the user, quality is no longer paramount with 80% being just good enough, with the latest sales pitch taking the lead...

I don't blame Apple, as it`s their business to profit, equally I don't care for it. For me the 12 month cycle and "locking in" of hardware has pretty much killed my professional need of OS X, as the risk of another disaster such as El Capitan will be ever present.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

with 80% being just good enough, with the latest sales pitch taking the lead...

I see that happening since they embraced the annual rollout of major new versions of the OS. Gone are the days that the OS won't be released until its ready.

FWIW, I don't use Apple's apps any longer. Replacing Aperture with Photos (which only has a a fraction of aperture's functionality). Similarly with iWork, I cannot edit excel spreadsheets, as many of the forumulas fail to come over.

I do think El Cap is a more robust and stable OS, though it seems that stability is not consistent for every user.

 

[Queen6]

I see that happening since they embraced the annual rollout of major new versions of the OS. Gone are the days that the OS won't be released until its ready.

FWIW, I don't use Apple's apps any longer. Replacing Aperture with Photos (which only has a a fraction of aperture's functionality). Similarly with iWork, I cannot edit excel spreadsheets, as many of the forumulas fail to come over.

I do think El Cap is a more robust and stable OS, though it seems that stability is not consistent for every user.

Am of the same opinion, as there are too many good & bad examples across recent releases of OS X. For me the fact that when I perform a clean install of both 10.11 & 10.10.5 the difference is literally night & day on the same hardware (specifically in the context of Apple`s own software) logically it makes little sense, equally the facts stand.

First and foremost I expect stability. Personally I am now considering that Microsoft is in a better position to deliver, due to the far slower development cycle of Windows, recent concerted efforts to improve the quality of the OS, nor are you compelled to upgrade to the "latest and greatest" when purchasing new hardware. Windows 10 is far from perfect, equally it`s heading in a good direction, combined with a strong change at the top of MS. I also like that Microsoft is not afraid to innovate with their hardware, complementing it with their OS.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

First and foremost I expect stability personally I am now considering that Microsoft is in a better position to deliver, due to the far slower development cycle of Windows,

I forget where I read it, and I did a quick google for it, but there were complaints about the annual upgrade pace by apple engineers (both former and current). Stating that its impossible to rollout major features and have a fairly stable product on a 12 month schedule. They went on to say marketing was driving the schedule, and not when it was ready.

I think there's some truth to that. Apple's mantra the past few years is to release early and then keep updating it.

As for MS, they've worked hard at improving and stabilizing Windows and Win 10 is a solid product. I was seriously considering a Dell XPS 8900 because I like where Windows was going and I had (still have) concerns about OS X.

In the end, I bought a 5k iMac which is a fantastic machine.

I'm hoping that apple gets back on track and focuses on quality and not quantity.

 

[Queen6]

I forget where I read it, and I did a quick google for it, but there were complaints about the annual upgrade pace by apple engineers (both former and current). Stating that its impossible to rollout major features and have a fairly stable product on a 12 month schedule. They went on to say marketing was driving the schedule, and not when it was ready.

I think there's some truth to that. Apple's mantra the past few years is to release early and then keep updating it.

As for MS, they've worked hard at improving and stabilizing Windows and Win 10 is a solid product. I was seriously considering a Dell XPS 8900 because I like where Windows was going and I had (still have) concerns about OS X.

In the end, I bought a 5k iMac which is a fantastic machine.

I'm hoping that apple gets back on track and focuses on quality and not quantity.

Sadly I fear the latter, given the current trend, in some respects we are there already.

Q-6

 

[George Dawes]

I recall the good old days of claris then apple works , a true all in one super app

Why can't they do something like that again ??

 

[navaira]

Yosemite became stable enough at 10.10.5, at which point El Capitan came out. I really wish I didn't update. I got excited about the new thing and about promised stability and enhancements. If I could roll back my Time Machine backup to 10.10 somehow I'd downgrade.

The tempo at which new point releases are rolled out is odd. Do they realise how much there is to fix and they're going as fast as possible about it throwing out half-baked releases every month? Or is it so they can boast that they got to 10.11.10 so it's mega-stable?

 

[Queen6]

Yosemite became stable enough at 10.10.5, at which point El Capitan came out. I really wish I didn't update. I got excited about the new thing and about promised stability and enhancements. If I could roll back my Time Machine backup to 10.10 somehow I'd downgrade.

The tempo at which new point releases are rolled out is odd. Do they realise how much there is to fix and they're going as fast as possible about it throwing out half-baked releases every month? Or is it so they can boast that they got to 10.11.10 so it's mega-stable?

It`s fairly obvious that 10.11 was rushed, due to the nature of breaking some systems, yet flawless on others, combined with the clues from the point updates. I also believe that Apple are picking up the pace on the point releases, frankly they are compelled too, as we here on MR are just a small "snapshot" of the Mac community.

Apple will likely resolve the bulk of 10.11`s issues, however similar to 10.10 for many this will be at the end of the development cycle, once again we "roll the dice" on 10.12 One can of course remain a full OS cycle behind or simply not upgrade from the version of OS X the system shipped with. For me all of the above are far from premium options, nor is OS X free being "baked" into the cost of every Mac. In short I expect far more...

I have had serious doubts with Apple`s ability to fully deliver on OS X with just a 12 month development cycle since inception, these doubts are now realised. Obviously Apple`s core business has shifted significantly, what we see today with OS X is but one aspect of this. This again brings me back to Microsoft as the desktop OS is still a significant aspect of their core business and in the shrinking PC space they are clearly pushing hard.

Apple`s focus is IOS and the "want" to do the same with OS X in the PC space, in that respect for many casual users 80% is good enough. Another aspect is that with new hardware you are compelled to use only the latest revision of OS X, however if that does not "play well" with your usage/workflow the only option is to wait on a fix for an undeterminable period of time.

I systematically back up my systems, by creating bootable disk images, especially prior to a OS upgrade or point release, so rolling back is not a big issue, nor is overly time consuming to revert via a clean install due to the nature of how I manage my data & applications. That said I most definitely don't appreciate needing to revert to an older version of OS X multiple times solely due to Apple not producing a quality product, and unleashing it on the public...

Q-6

 

[Max(IT)]

My point exactly, we both own Apple hardware, we have both experienced 10.10 & 10.11 yet the result is far from the same. All being equal basic functionality of the OS should be a none issue, however it`s not, nor is it for many others. This rather points to inconsistency in the OS across Apple`s own limited hardware, compounded by the short development cycle.

My own Mac`s are used heavily for work purpose; I have seen more crashes, application issues (Apple software) with 10.11 than I have observed since OS X was implemented by Apple? Inversely Yosemite has been absolutely rock solid even on the 12" rMB? I don't suggest that one iteration of the OS is better than the other, I do suggest that Apple`s priorities are Apple`s not the user, quality is no longer paramount with 80% being just good enough, with the latest sales pitch taking the lead...

I don't blame Apple, as it`s their business to profit, equally I don't care for it. For me the 12 month cycle and "locking in" of hardware has pretty much killed my professional need of OS X, as the risk of another disaster such as El Capitan will be ever present.

Q-6

there is no "disaster " in El Capitan. It's a far better operative system than Windows despite the shorter development period.
Btw I agree on one thing: I'd like Apple to release new OS X versions every 2 years.

 

[Queen6]

there is no "disaster " in El Capitan. It's a far better operative system than Windows despite the shorter development period.
Btw I agree on one thing: I'd like Apple to release new OS X versions every 2 years.

Opinions vary; If your operating system of choice breaks and subsequently effects your usage negatively, nor can it be remedied by the vendor it is clearly a disaster. For many of us time is money.

As for Windows versus OS X completely depends on your needs and usage, with one not being better than the other by default. If windows does not work for you personally, OS X does, and that aligns with your usage/workflow all is good, equally both operating systems have both positives & negatives.

Q-6

 

[hojx]

I have a late 2014 rMBP. Wondering if I should upgrade. Are the features worth it? Is there a boost to performance or battery life or a detriment? Will appreciate any insights.

Performance has been way better for me after upgrading to El Capitan. E.g. I always use scaled resolution and Mission Control in Yosemite dropped frames really badly and now it is extremely smooth. 15" rMBP late 2013.

It seems like the most people having issues are using earlier models? Not an excuse for Apple but just saying there's probably less chance of anything going wrong?

Of course as usual before every upgrade do a backup to be safe.

 

[Max(IT)]

Opinions vary; If your operating system of choice breaks and subsequently effects your usage negatively, nor can it be remedied by the vendor it is clearly a disaster. For many of us time is money.

As for Windows versus OS X completely depends on your needs and usage, with one not being better than the other by default. If windows does not work for you personally, OS X does, and that aligns with your usage/workflow all is good, equally both operating systems have both positives & negatives.

Q-6

Yep, opinions vary. In my opinion Windows basically is malware: legalized spyware.
Windows 7 was barely acceptable, Windows 8 totally crapware, Windows 10 slightly better but still an half baked attempt to design a modern OS by an incoherent company....

And before you say something else, I'm not a Microsoft hater: a very happy Xbox user, and a Windows phone supporter since the beginning.

 

[Queen6]

Yep, opinions vary. In my opinion Windows basically is malware: legalized spyware.
Windows 7 was barely acceptable, Windows 8 totally crapware, Windows 10 slightly better but still an half baked attempt to design a modern OS by an incoherent company....

And before you say something else, I'm not a Microsoft hater: a very happy Xbox user, and a Windows phone supporter since the beginning.

Then you should probably avoid using Windows in the desktop environment. Personally I use what`s best for the job, incurring no more issue with Windows than with OS X, nor is Apple immune from capturing data, they just have a nice man telling you it`s not so, however that`s for another thread...

Q-6

 

[Toltepeceno]

I have had good luck with el c. Yosemite took a long time to smooth out and was never a great os to me, el c is a smoothing out of yosemite and I expect the next version of osx to be unstable.

I wonder how many people that have problems are still running spinners. I would not run yosemite OR anything above it on a spinner. I started with a spinner on yosemite and was gong to junk the computer until I put in an ssd. I will go so far as to say osx is no longer designed to run on a spinner even though apple still sells a few with them.

As far as windows vs osx windows 10 is quicker and more fluid even if it's on a spinner and osx is on an ssd, but I prefer the ui of osx. Everyone should go with what is best for their work flow, being retired though I have no work flow. Just play flow.

 

[dfyoung10]

My MBP likes El Capitan fine. My old MBA 2009 pretty much ground to a halt after the install. 2GB and a 4200rpm hard drive just isn't enough I fear. I will downgrade that back to Yosemite.

 

[\-V-/]

If you use hardware-based RAID ... no ... as they removed that ... which I used ... which is annoying. It's definitely faster than Yosemite, but it does break certain apps.

 

[Gochugogi]

It's a bit of a crapshoot depending on your computer and the apps and hardware you use. My i7 Mini is fairly stable under 10.11.2 as is my wife's i5 Mini. However, mine crashes 40 or 50% of the time if I leave Safari or Mail open during system sleep. Sometimes it crashes during sleep or just after waking (have to pull plug!). If I close those apps, it's fine. Also, USB drives randomly but daily are dropped and I get an "incorrectly ejected" warning. So nothing serious but a minor pain in the arse. I skipped 10.10 but felt 10.8x was much more stable and never dropped a drive.

 

[zettabyte]

My advice to PO is to wait 2-3 updates before upgrading, El Capitan currently has bugs that may or may not affect you depending on what software you use. It might be a good idea to look at OS X El Capitan Bugs! thread before making decision...

I am curious why anyone install a new OS X shortly after release, its much safer to wait several updates so that worst bugs are squashed before upgrading?

Personally I'm going to wait until 10.11.5 or possibly skip El Capitan completely, it has no real benefits for my needs compared to Mavericks.

I am wanting to clean install everything to install bootcamp and partition it only once the first time and have been wondering the same...El Capitan or stay with Mavericks...

From what I can see so far, there isn't much, if at all, any worthy improvements that would justify upgrading to El Capitan.

Mavericks has been extremely stable for me, but if there is something that I may not know about El Capitan....talk to me Goose.