Would Steve Jobs have approved the new Mac Pro?

[Larry-K]

According to Wikipedia Wozniak remains an employee of Apple and receives a stipend, estimated to be USD$120,000 per year.

Good for him, I always valued his opinions more than Steve's anyway.

 

[theSeb]

According to Wikipedia Wozniak remains an employee of Apple and receives a stipend, estimated to be USD$120,000 per year.

Interesting. Thanks for that. I am curious then how he gets away with criticising apple so openly in the press.

 

[Tesselator]

Interesting. Thanks for that. I am curious then how he gets away with criticising apple so openly in the press.

Rouge dwarves are allowed a certain measure of insolence.

 

[Cubemmal]

Apple, like just about any company, probably has a roadmap for the next several years already laid out. Steve most likely took part in the design of this MP and maybe even the next revision. I'd say he approved it when he was alive.

Yes. I believe this new Mac Pro was actually ready for release last year, but has been delayed because of the Intel E series release which was put off a year. So going backwards, the development time for this was at least two years, if not three. It probably coincided with TB development as that is a critical part of the new Pro.

In other words, yes Jobs definitely knew about it and surely approved.

 

[AlbertEinstein]

I believe that Woz is still technically an employee of Apple Inc.

Woz is listed as an employee by Apple, although he does not work there. At the moment he is employed by fusion-io (and they have no connections to Apple).

The Apple employment is mostly some kind of a novelty thing, especially since he was the co-founder of Apple.

(Whew, a lot of Apple in this post.)

 

[Cubemmal]

Back to OT, I went back and saw some of the previous announcements with Jobs again, to compare to the recent one. I've been thinking that previously they were much more exciting, but in comparison you know they're not much different. Jobs had a somewhat different presentation style, but overall last weeks WWDC could as well viewed as a Jobs era one, just without him.

Anyhow I saw the Unibody, iPad and iPhone announcements for comparison, and I'm absolutely convinced Jobs would have approved with the Mac Pro. Additionally given product development lifecycles he was alive when this project was started.

 

[rGiskard]

He did approve it, as many posters have explained. Maybe instead you can blame Obama?

 

[KaraH]

Jobs may be dead but the wizard of Woz is not. His reaction when it was unveiled did not look like he was impressed. I look forward to hearing him say his reaction to it.

 

[iPadPublisher]

While I'm not going to take it to the level of a flame, I will just say I'm annoyed by your whole post. Steve is dead. With all due respect -- and I mean that: I have the utmost respect for Steve, the fact is that he's dead now. Speculating on what he would or would not approve of is absurd. Unless you or others on here playing that same game were close with the man, or his family, the truth is that we have no fu---ng idea what he would approve of. Let us not forget that Steve oversaw some failures, too. He was a genius. A visionary genius. But he wasn't perfect, and his crystal ball had a few cracks.

The sooner you all stop playing the "what would Steve do" game, the better off Apple, and it's customers will be.

 

[McGiord]

This is a nice marketing gimmick...

After scrolling to the next screen, I think they lost me...even the picture look really nice, and it is a nice design, why does hell they had to write this kind of BS:

"we had to consider every detail: the number of blades, the size of the blades, the spacing of the blades, and even the shape of the blades"
This text is extremely shameful for any company with at least a decent mechanical engineer.
If I should be worried about anyone at Apple, is who approved this marketing text...not the MacPro.
The MacPro looks very nice.

 

[MattInOz]

Woz is listed as an employee by Apple, although he does not work there. At the moment he is employed by fusion-io (and they have no connections to Apple).

Maybe not no connection, the new PCIe SSD looks a lot like something they would have a hand in (at the very least some IP). Still you'd only call that an arms-length supplier relationship.

edit: PS. I'm surprised no one in three pages so far mentioned the "Apple 2.0" keynote when SJ returned and the NeXT team came on board(here on youtube) and the Q and A with SJ at the very end. To me the new MacPro is the very last item of the vision laid out by Steve Jobs for "Connected computing for the rest of us".

 

[dmax35]

Do anyone here ask themselves "Would Wozniak approve this and that"? My guess is no, since he's got no place in Apple Inc.

Forget Jobs, he plays absolutely no role in the company what so ever and it would be a hundred times better if you all just let the man rest in peace.

Change is going to come and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Woz was present and sat two rows in front of us. He was overheard giving interviews and was impressed.

 

[deconstruct60]

"we had to consider every detail: the number of blades, the size of the blades, the spacing of the blades, and even the shape of the blades"
This text is extremely shameful for any company with at least a decent mechanical engineer.

Not sure why assigning a Mech E to solve an Aero E problem. Blade shape and pitch angle does affect sound and airflow efficiency .

Now is a sound optimized fan going to move air well at higher rotational speeds when there is higher workload? Probably not.

This is overblown hyperbole like most of Apple's marketing. The blade size is related to the fan diameter which has alot more impact on the airflow efficiency than the blade pitch.

F=ma

either bigger mass ( air ) at lower acceleration or smaller mass at higher acceleration.




This one from Apple's site is actually more outrageously false.

"Thunderbolt is the fastest, most versatile I/O technology there is ..."

Fastest focused on PC class I/O perhaps, but there a couple of things faster... probably some of it in Apple's very own data centers. This is just ignorance of what is possible.

If I should be worried about anyone at Apple, is who approved this marketing text...not the MacPro..

Same folks who claim that "iPhone's design defies physics..." LOL. No. That is is magical and blah , blah , blah. That is just following in Steve Jobs' footsteps. Jobs was part P.T. Barum in spinning properties of the products.

 

[thekev]

"we had to consider every detail: the number of blades, the size of the blades, the spacing of the blades, and even the shape of the blades"
This text is extremely shameful for any company with at least a decent mechanical engineer.
If I should be worried about anyone at Apple, is who approved this marketing text...not the MacPro.
The MacPro looks very nice.

It reminds me of the keynote on the new imacs where they mentioned how they calibrate each display. Yes mention something every company does to some degree without further details like it's somehow special. It gets really silly. I'm not sure how well that will continue to work without Jobs acting as the face.

 

[McGiord]

Not sure why assigning a Mech E to solve an Aero E problem. Blade shape and pitch angle does affect sound and airflow efficiency .

Now is a sound optimized fan going to move air well at higher rotational speeds when there is higher workload? Probably not.

This is overblown hyperbole like most of Apple's marketing. The blade size is related to the fan diameter which has alot more impact on the airflow efficiency than the blade pitch.

F=ma

either bigger mass ( air ) at lower acceleration or smaller mass at higher acceleration.




This one from Apple's site is actually more outrageously false.

"Thunderbolt is the fastest, most versatile I/O technology there is ..."

Fastest focused on PC class I/O perhaps, but there a couple of things faster... probably some of it in Apple's very own data centers. This is just ignorance of what is possible.





Same folks who claim that "iPhone's design defies physics..." LOL. No. That is is magical and blah , blah , blah. That is just following in Steve Jobs' footsteps. Jobs was part P.T. Barum in spinning properties of the products.

A mechanical engineer knows about heat transfer and the mechanical machine needed to accomplish it, like a fan.
Aerospace and this might be related only as it looks like something that will go inside the Death Star...
The MacPro is going to fly but in the geek lingo or out of the shelves...as most of the times it will be now transported by trucks...

 

[rdsii64]

I don't profess to know what Jobs and Co. think/thought. In any respect, this new machine is a beast. Change is always hard. I be when all the clammer has died down I suspect we will find that this new Mac Pro will be better than the last even if it is more expensive.

 

[xSinghx]

As Steve instructed Tim in his latter days...." Don't try and do what I'd do, just do what's right'

I may have the wording a bit off, but its essentially correct.

Wether this machine turns out to be right is another question which only time will tell.

Why I will probably buy one?
1)I'm making the transformation from prosumer to pro in video editing.

2) If this sucker has a breakdown, I can quickly replace it with another whilst its repaired, plugging my external stuff straight in to the replacement and continue working. I already have 2x6tb external thunderbolt drives on my desk, and looking at expanding further.

3)And for the life of me, why anyone would still want a behemoth sitting under a desk these days I don't know. I love the iMacs, but power is starting to really become an issue.

1) There's nothing more pro about the new Mac Pro vs the old Mac Pro. In fact it's arguably less so.

2) You could do that on the old Mac Pro as well. It allows for external storage options so there's nothing this new one has the old one didn't minus thunderbolt which could have been easily added to the old design.

3) While people may have wanted a slightly smaller form factor, a disposable bricked trash can is probably not what they had in mind. Why anyone would want something with a shorter lifecycle, less power, less flexibility, fewer and exorbitantly more expensive upgrade options - I don't know.

 

[goMac]

Steve Jobs had a five year plan. It's been less than five years since he passed.

You can bet Steve knew about this in some form.

Not to mention, what exactly would he not have approved about this? This thing has Steve written all over it.

 

[Midphase]

I'm sure Steve knew about this, and he approved it just as he approved FCP X.

I think the biggest issue that I have with the new Mac Pro is that it simply does away with too many things all at once. It's different than just losing a DVD drive.

Imagine that every single laptop that Apple makes was gone to be replaced by an iPad. Mac Book Pros and Mac Book Airs are gone to be replaced by an iPad. You can bet your ass there would be a great deal of discontent and a very divided reaction.

Well, this is the same thing....the new Mac Pro is to the old one, as a MBP is to an iPad.

 

[ValSalva]

Steve Jobs would have loved this new Mac Pro. The thought of users opening up and tinkering in his beloved creations irked him. The more locked down the better, with the iPad as the ultimate expression of what he wanted, at least according to most sources.

Woz on the other hand...

 

[the8thark]

Image

This is a nice marketing gimmick...

After scrolling to the next screen, I think they lost me...even the picture look really nice, and it is a nice design, why does hell they had to write this kind of BS:
Image
"we had to consider every detail: the number of blades, the size of the blades, the spacing of the blades, and even the shape of the blades"
This text is extremely shameful for any company with at least a decent mechanical engineer.
If I should be worried about anyone at Apple, is who approved this marketing text...not the MacPro.
The MacPro looks very nice.

That advertising is very important. People will realise if Apple are anal on the quality and perfectness of the fan blades, then you can be sure they took extra care about making the more important stuff like cpu and gpu great too.

 

[macs4nw]

I've been flamed pretty hard over my recent Mac Pro comments, and the space of a reply just wasn't enough to say everything that is wrong about this computer.

This computer does not represent an "innovation", and I strongly believe that Steve Jobs would have never let this thing see the light of day, much less hit the production floor.

I will explain why, but first let me begin by responding to the most common reply to my original post: "Obviously you don't understand Apple's design philosophy" / "obviously you've never been an Apple fan"

My history with Apple goes back to when I was about three years old... back to the first time I ever used a computer. In school, I was ridiculed by my classmates for being a Mac user/supporter. I have issues of Macworld dating back to before Steve Job's return. I watched keynotes live from Apple Stores. I've even built an HTPC into a PowerMac G4 Cube, and a hackintosh into a Powermac G4 Quicksilver because I was so obsessed with Apple's designs.

But do I understand Apple's design philosophy?

If I were to sum it up in three words, it would be "It just works."

But what, exactly, does that mean?

Back in the late 90s, computers were still needlessly confusing and that operating systems were unnecessarily complex. Jobs knew that there was an appetite for a computer that you could just take out of the box, plug it in, and start using. He knew that there was a market for a user-experience that appealed to those who wanted a no-frills computer. Thus the iMac and OS X were born. It was the right computer for the right time... And suddenly computers were accessible to everyone!

But Apple still had a contingency of users who knew what they were doing. They wanted more power, and more flexibility. For these people "it just works" meant having a robust computer which made being a power-user simple. Why do you think they built the swing-down door on the G3s and G4s? For looks? No, because power-users needed to get inside their computers regularly enough that such a design feature was useful.

"It just works" means different things for different classes of users... but for EVERYONE, it means having exactly what you need out of a computer - no more, no less.

The manifestation of this design philosophy was much more noticeable for basic users. In being cautious not to give them more than they needed, Apple often took what seemed like drastic measures. (Cutting ODDs was a prime example of this.) A reduction in the size and complexity of Apple's hardware was an inevitable result of their design philosophy... but it was never the outright goal!

Somewhere along the way, I think some Mac-users (especially the more recent ones) began to think of it this way... that Apple's philosophy was minimalism.

Let me say it again: minimalism is the outcome of thieir philosophy applied to what basic users need in a computer.

Now what about pros?

While imbedded flash-based storage is nice, you'll be hard-pressed to find a pro-user who won't need mass storage for the gobs and gobs of disk-space consumed by media files. And when video editor has a sample cut he wants to showcase, it'll most likely be played back on a DVD player, which - last I checked - aren't compatible with a USB stick.

This computer - for a good majority of pros - won't "just work". This computer will inevitably need more. And when it needs more, you have one option: external add-ons.

Pro users have the knowledge and the capability to perform their own internal upgrades. For them it's PREFERABLE! Where as most external periphs will have two cords (a power cord and a comm cable), internal periphs have ZERO! And they take up no additional space! (And no additional outlets!)

To suggest that external peripherals are preferred by pro-users is just totally uninformed. That may be the case for the occasional basic user who may require an external ODD, but in the case where nearly every pro user will require external mass storage... it just makes no sense.

It DOES NOT just work.

Steve Jobs was passionate about simplifying the simplify-able.

What Cook & Co. have done to the Mac Pro was simplification for simplification's sake - devoid of any actual inspiration from what pro users needed. They, like many of today's Apple fans, are caught up in the belief that Apple's mission is minimalism, while completely missing the point of what Steve Jobs actually set out to accomplish.

-Clive

It's obvious that you have put a lot of time and effort in your post. That is commendable.

However, I find these "What would Steve have done" threads so utterly senseless, and a bit of a waste of time, that we could have better used for looking towards the future. The past is nice for historical perspective, but generally less useful for assessing where the future is headed.

Not until the final version of this new MacPro is commercially released, should we pass judgement on it. Based upon what I have heard/seen so far, I believe it will be very well received by the Pro community. With it's ample TB connectivity, it will be the ultimate in configurability.

If the non-user upgradeable graphics in the previewed version turn out to be upgradeable, customizable, or augmentable somehow in the shipping version, and the machines have even a modicum of legacy support, this machine will ultimately be welcomed by the Pro community, imho.

 

[goMac]

Well, this is the same thing....the new Mac Pro is to the old one, as a MBP is to an iPad.

I don't think that's a very accurate comparison. A better one would be the Macbook Pro to Retina Macbook Pro transition. New machine was just as powerful as the old one, but without the upgrade path. And strangely enough, the Macbook Pro users seem to be weathering that one just fine.

A MBP->iPad would imply that the new machine was far less powerful, and not capable of running the same software, which isn't true.

 

[s15119]

I think Jobs would be thrilled with this new machine. Seems exactly where he was taking the entire line.

 

[maxosx]

When the topic, or comment even mentions "Steve Jobs" calamity ensues.

The man's dead.
The past is over.
Get into the present and live....

Or wakeup years from now wondering where the time went.