Would you rather see a thinner new MBP or same size?

[leman]

Here's my $.02. Apple is intending the MBP for consumers, people who will use the computer at home, school or what not. I consider a professional as someone who's using it for work, such as a photographer, or scientist. Those needs are such that they may want a computer that is designed differently or having features that fit their needs differently then a consumer who's looking to update his facebook page from his couch.

I really can't see your point. I'm a scientist and I don't believe that there is a computer that fits my needs better than a MBP. With it, I get: 1. Great display which is perfect for reading/writing papers and code, 2. Best keyboard and trackpad on the market, which is again great for writing papers, 3. Best-performing mobile CPU and decent (albeit mediocre) GPU which is great for times I need that numerical Oompf, 4. Enterprise-class storage performance, which saves me tons of time when working with data, 5. Enterprise-class connectivity via thunderbolt for quick backups and data transfers, 6. Very fast wifi card, which makes Ethernet unnecessary in most cases, 7. Essentially a full day of battery, which is great for teaching and conference trips, 8. Advanced OS options such as scriptability, backup, automation and diagnostics tools, 9. Fully certified unix OS with full support of a plethora of open-source tools as well as superior development capabilities... this is just what comes to the top of my mind. Of course, all of that in a laptop that weights just under 2kg, so I can easily carry it around in a light shoulderbag.

Overall, I see no indication that Apple is ignoring the professional, advanced user. Quite on contrary, a lot of features such as improvement in automation facilities, diagnostics tools, Hidpi support, new APIs and development tools, and the new colorspace and wise gamut support targets and benefits the advanced user first and foremost. In contrast to what you say, I am convinced that Apple tries to design a no-nonsense computer line that would cover as many use cases as possible, without Going into extreme niche cases (military-grade robustness, mobile rendering platform, extreme gaming etc,). Apple notebooks are targeted at both casual facebook users and serious data-crunchers/designers/scientists/etc. and caters to the needs of both the casual and the pro group.

 

[jblagden]

Of course, but just because your usage is such, doesn't mean Apple's intended target audiences is the professionals. They have long moved away from the professional sector. That doesn't mean professionals don't use MBPs, but rather Apple takes design cues based on what it thinks the consumer wants, i.e., thinner design, no need for expandability etc.

If MacBook Pros aren't intended for professionals, they should change the name.

 

[frankgrimes]

I never understood this you have to be a pro to use a pro device attitude. Guess what I'm not a PGA golfer and yet I'm using some woods from the PGA. Notebooks like the MBP, XPS can fly through most of the non pro tasks, people may believe a few seconds here and there aren't much but it adds up and I'm for one want the best option for the next few years and in Apple terms thats the MBP simple as that.

I mean, I also use Photoshop a lot and I'm not a designer but yet having a fast notebook definately helps using this program.

 

[puckhead193]

I like the size.. its a pro laptop. If you need ultra portable then their's other MacBooks for you. Ideally for me I want the top specs of the 15" in a 13"/14" package

 

[Branflaakes]

I know this post is a "Would you rather...", but you guys do know that it's almost certain that the next rMBP won't be thicker, right? I believe the only two realities are slightly (ever so) thinner, or the same size, leaning towards slightly thinner.

 

[jblagden]

I never understood this you have to be a pro to use a pro device attitude. Guess what I'm not a PGA golfer and yet I'm using some woods from the PGA. Notebooks like the MBP, XPS can fly through most of the non pro tasks, people may believe a few seconds here and there aren't much but it adds up and I'm for one want the best option for the next few years and in Apple terms thats the MBP simple as that.

I mean, I also use Photoshop a lot and I'm not a designer but yet having a fast notebook definately helps using this program.

I don’t mean that only professionals should use pro-branded stuff. What I mean is the pro-branded stuff should be suitable for professionals, not just consumers who just use computers for basic things like documents, email and web browsing. A pro-branded computer should be able to handle heavy tasks like 3D modeling, photo editing, video editing, GPGPU computations, and gaming without throttling or overheating. Well, that and the RAM shouldn’t be soldered in.

 

[leman]

What I mean is the pro-branded stuff should be suitable for professionals, not just consumers who just use computers for basic things like documents, email and web browsing. A pro-branded computer should be able to handle heavy tasks like 3D modeling, photo editing, video editing, GPGPU computations, and gaming without throttling or overheating.

The MBP is perfectly capable of these tasks. Besides, it's weird that you include gaming into the list and that you also dismiss professionals who happen to have more moderate computational needs.

Well, that and the RAM shouldn’t be soldered in.

That is just your arbitrary wish which has nothing to do with a laptop being suitable or not suitable of intensive workloads. Not to mention that the 15" MBP comes with max amount of RAM that the CPU can support to begin with.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

Not to mention that the 15" MBP comes with max amount of RAM that the CPU can support to begin with.

Are you saying that the current processor cannot support 32 GB of RAM?
[doublepost=1472001925][/doublepost]I don't care if someone buys a MBP to do nothing more than play tic-tac-toe. But I'm a working, traveling professional photographer that also shoots, edits, and produces 4K video on a regular basis. I want the MBPro to be highly capable and fast. And I want the ability to add even more RAM than what Apple currently offers.

 

[jblagden]

Are you saying that the current processor cannot support 32 GB of RAM?
[doublepost=1472001925][/doublepost]I don't care if someone buys a MBP to do nothing more than play tic-tac-toe. But I'm a working, traveling professional photographer that also shoots, edits, and produces 4K video on a regular basis. I want the MBPro to be highly capable and fast. And I want the ability to add even more RAM than what Apple currently offers.

I think the Intel spec sheet says it can. But it depends on how many RAM slots the computer has, and the capacity of the modules. I think you can get 16 gigabyte DDR4 modules.

 

[wegster]

The MBP is perfectly capable of these tasks. Besides, it's weird that you include gaming into the list and that you also dismiss professionals who happen to have more moderate computational needs.

That is just your arbitrary wish which has nothing to do with a laptop being suitable or not suitable of intensive workloads. Not to mention that the 15" MBP comes with max amount of RAM that the CPU can support to begin with.

'Professional' has already been covered elsewhere. I don't disagree that the current and likely next MBP is a competent and capable system. I also don't believe the MBP lineup is a true workstation replacement, but it's 'close enough' that many have dropped desktops/workstations from their personal inventory in favor of 'one machine.' After over a decade of building various usually overclocked systems (dual boot at the time, Windows only for games + Linux or *BSD for real work), and having some rather nice workstations at work (one of the top 5 manufacturers) for software development, I turned the workstation into a 'spare' VM host for the team and went to laptop only.

I also generally pay for my own systems, especially when it comes to Apple, as do some others - for work use.
In part due to that, but also generally not needing to chase the 'bleeding edge' (e.g. replacing motherboards or CPUs every 6-12 months - becomes an expensive 'hobby' even if using for actual work..), I expect any laptop purchase to be comparable or beating most contenders/comparable systems at release (especially for the added $), and for it to be reasonably well usable for 4 years or more. My 2011 MBP has hit that mark, but it's gone through HD -> SSD + extra HD, from 4->8GB of RAM immediately followed by 16GB as it became economically feasible to do so (once it dropped below $1k(!!)). Yes, I miss USB3, but can do TB options. I can still run 2x external displays, and current system performance CPU-wise is only about a 25% jump vs current MBP. It remains 'sufficient,' but disk IO and connectivity could be improved vs a current system.

Will the next revision fare so well? This is the concern many have, along with whether or not performance (or ports, or ..) are sacrificed on the altar of 'thinner and lighter.'

I can run out and pick up a nice 32GB laptop 'workstation replacement compromise' from Lenovo, Dell, HP, ... or a (closer to) base model and upgrade the RAM and storage with industry-standard parts - but can not with an Macbook Pro. Apple chooses it's focus and 'balance' and seems to have chosen thinner and lighter above most, and part of that is proprietary SSDs + soldered RAM. Beyond Apple's wet dream/'expectation' of shortening upgrade cycles, this does not benefit the consumer - take a look at all the all-but-useless 4GB 'Pro' systems on eBay. Many couldn't afford to pay the Apple RAM premiums at initial purchase, but easily could have added $100 down the line for added RAM - if they system allowed it. I don't know what sorts of data sets and data sizes you deal with, so storage may not be an issue for you, but as camera sensor resolutions increase, video resolutions drive skywards, etc...storage needs grow over time. Your options for current-gem MBP storage upgrades more or less amount to - buy used from a parted out MBP, at a cost higher than a new Samsung. Apple may well play the 'not user serviceable' card if you do swap it out and then need service to add to the obnoxiousness.

I would expect a 'Pro' system to have some capability to also 'grow' over time - not endlessly, but similar to the competition and current state of the art. We've all accepted no CPU and GPU upgrades on laptops over time, but RAM and storage can help make significant performance (or capacity) improvements, which are now lost to 'thinner and lighter.' Thunderbolt is great, even if $$ by comparison to other ports/expansion types, and an eGPU will hopefully be a valid option in the future, but does nothing to account for growing OS and App needs, nor growing sizes of even simple photos, videos, devkits, you name it.

To your point about max RAM options being available - I'm fairly sure current MBPs do NOT allow for the 32GB of RAM supportable, let alone user-installation of such.

Neither side is truly 'wrong' here, as no doubt the new systems will be quite capable and nice at launch. Limiting whether or not the same system can remain reasonably competitive/capable a few years down the line...is reduced by Apple's own choices, and not what many people want.

 

[Queen6]

'Professional' has already been covered elsewhere. I don't disagree that the current and likely next MBP is a competent and capable system. I also don't believe the MBP lineup is a true workstation replacement, but it's 'close enough' that many have dropped desktops/workstations from their personal inventory in favor of 'one machine.' After over a decade of building various usually overclocked systems (dual boot at the time, Windows only for games + Linux or *BSD for real work), and having some rather nice workstations at work (one of the top 5 manufacturers) for software development, I turned the workstation into a 'spare' VM host for the team and went to laptop only.

I also generally pay for my own systems, especially when it comes to Apple, as do some others - for work use.
In part due to that, but also generally not needing to chase the 'bleeding edge' (e.g. replacing motherboards or CPUs every 6-12 months - becomes an expensive 'hobby' even if using for actual work..), I expect any laptop purchase to be comparable or beating most contenders/comparable systems at release (especially for the added $), and for it to be reasonably well usable for 4 years or more. My 2011 MBP has hit that mark, but it's gone through HD -> SSD + extra HD, from 4->8GB of RAM immediately followed by 16GB as it became economically feasible to do so (once it dropped below $1k(!!)). Yes, I miss USB3, but can do TB options. I can still run 2x external displays, and current system performance CPU-wise is only about a 25% jump vs current MBP. It remains 'sufficient,' but disk IO and connectivity could be improved vs a current system.

Will the next revision fare so well? This is the concern many have, along with whether or not performance (or ports, or ..) are sacrificed on the altar of 'thinner and lighter.'

I can run out and pick up a nice 32GB laptop 'workstation replacement compromise' from Lenovo, Dell, HP, ... or a (closer to) base model and upgrade the RAM and storage with industry-standard parts - but can not with an Macbook Pro. Apple chooses it's focus and 'balance' and seems to have chosen thinner and lighter above most, and part of that is proprietary SSDs + soldered RAM. Beyond Apple's wet dream/'expectation' of shortening upgrade cycles, this does not benefit the consumer - take a look at all the all-but-useless 4GB 'Pro' systems on eBay. Many couldn't afford to pay the Apple RAM premiums at initial purchase, but easily could have added $100 down the line for added RAM - if they system allowed it. I don't know what sorts of data sets and data sizes you deal with, so storage may not be an issue for you, but as camera sensor resolutions increase, video resolutions drive skywards, etc...storage needs grow over time. Your options for current-gem MBP storage upgrades more or less amount to - buy used from a parted out MBP, at a cost higher than a new Samsung. Apple may well play the 'not user serviceable' card if you do swap it out and then need service to add to the obnoxiousness.

I would expect a 'Pro' system to have some capability to also 'grow' over time - not endlessly, but similar to the competition and current state of the art. We've all accepted no CPU and GPU upgrades on laptops over time, but RAM and storage can help make significant performance (or capacity) improvements, which are now lost to 'thinner and lighter.' Thunderbolt is great, even if $$ by comparison to other ports/expansion types, and an eGPU will hopefully be a valid option in the future, but does nothing to account for growing OS and App needs, nor growing sizes of even simple photos, videos, devkits, you name it.

To your point about max RAM options being available - I'm fairly sure current MBPs do NOT allow for the 32GB of RAM supportable, let alone user-installation of such.

Neither side is truly 'wrong' here, as no doubt the new systems will be quite capable and nice at launch. Limiting whether or not the same system can remain reasonably competitive/capable a few years down the line...is reduced by Apple's own choices, and not what many people want.

Well said, and final thoughts "not what many people want" very apt as these two images clearly project...

76.5% so far want Apple to produce a more powerful MBP that is equal to the current model in thickness or even thicker to allow for greater performance with upgraded internals and realistic thermal profile.

Backed up by plunging sales figures, too little, too late, at too high a price and we get this....

Apple might just want to stop disregarding it`s customers, and start producing once again what they need, at least give those of us with greater demands an option. Sadly far more likely Apple will continue on it`s path of favouring "thin & light" at the cost of everything else, including sales...

Q-6