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Yosemite and TRIM
- Thread starter Mr. Retrofire
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I've seen Samsung bench tests online: their GC does a decent job, but, machine needs some "idle time". So, turn off "put drives to sleep" option in energy settings. And walk away from the computer every now and then.
As for shorten life, there's a website ("Tech Report"?) that's running write tests to see how long an SSD will last. They just went past the 2PB mark, and the Samsung 840 Pro is still running, non-Pro failed at about 1PB. So odds are something else in the machine or you will expire before the SSD does.
1. Write speeds might slow over time.
2. No. Not having TRIM does slightly increase wear on the drive, but it is negligible.
3. Write speeds may degrade over time. I know of no sure way to predict how much or how quickly this will happen. It seems to depend on the amount of writes to the drive. I have seen users on here post they have been using drives for a couple years with no speed drop and others see a drop in months.
All of that said, not running TRIM does not permanently damage the SSD. Even if speeds slow, you can enable TRIM then from single user mode run the command fsck -fy to TRIM all free space on the drive and performance will be restored.
TRIM, in theory, reduces "write amplification", where one write creates a cascade of additional moving of data around. TRIM can eliminate the moving of useless data.
I can say that batch TRIM, including temporarily enabling trim, writing zeros, and deleting the resulting file, should give you all the benefits of TRIM enabled 24/7.
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An for those bashing Apple for not enabling TRIM on thrid party SSD drives: even Linux, fully open source, only enables TRIM for a list of drives known to work well with TRIM. Reports of TRIM damaging data, especially on certain drives, resulted in this action. It's still the Wild West in SSD land.
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I have a MBP mid 2010 and giving it some new life with 16gb ram and Samsung evo 840. I've read a lot about this TRIM issue and I just would like to know what the general consensus is on what is the best route for me to take - whether it be disable the trim and deal with the EVO's garbage disposal or to try and find a way to get a Mavericks installer on my USB thumb drive and just use Mavericks (I never downloaded mavericks before Yosemite). If neither of these options are the best, I'm all ears for others. Any input is highly appreciated ladies & gents!
If there is no specific reason for you to use Yosemite. I think it's better to use 10.9.5 with TRIM enabled at this moment.
In my own experience. 10.9.5 is a very stable OS. Yosemite still relatively buggy. It's good enough for everyday use, but not as good as 10.9.5.
That's the way I'm leaning. My problem is I can't get a copy of Mavericks installer.
Also, with TRIM enabled on Mavericks - there aren't any performance issues with 3rd party SSD's like there are on Yosemite correct?
I have no idea about any performance from Yosemite that's due to TRIM enabled. Same as Mavericks.
Clea915. I have to ask about the part of your statement above where you state you will put in 16gb or ram in a MBP mid 2010. I have the same unit with the same desire and I have read many posts from may forums stating that this is not possible on this unit. 8GB being the max. Do you know something I don't?
I am preparing to put in a 1TB SSD (OWC Mercury Electra 6G, I think) as I will upgrade to Yosemite as well. Moving to 16GB in addition to the SSD would be TOTALLY AWESOME, but again to my knowledge all who have tried have failed.
Hope you can expound on this further?
Thanks
LThibx
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_MacBook_MacBook_Pro/Upgrade/DDR3
See above link. In red you will see supports 16 GB.
Re: 16GB in MBP mid-2010: only 13", model 7,1, just so everyone is clear.
I've got 6GB, in my 2008 MBP, and Yosemite is running just fine with it. No memory pressure. Only time it smacked into yellow was after initial install and OS was doing it's reindexing and such things.
Now, an SSD would be a better investment, IMO. Will notice that performance-wise vs more RAM.
I've got 6GB, in my 2008 MBP, and Yosemite is running just fine with it. No memory pressure. Only time it smacked into yellow was after initial install and OS was doing it's reindexing and such things.
Now, an SSD would be a better investment, IMO. Will notice that performance-wise vs more RAM.
Clea915, NoBoMac. Yes, my bad, I assumed when Clea915 referenced MBP Mid 2010, that he was talking about another model. I have a Mid 2010 17". Praying that Apple will reintroduce another 17" model in the NEAR future....but that is for another thread. Sorry for the confusion.
LThibx
LThibx
There have been some postings indicating concerns with trim enabler enabled and kext signing disabled that an issue could arise with power interruptions. This condition could result in a PRAM reset and subsequent boot failures (stop sign being displayed). I experienced a 5 hour power interruption with IMac on under these conditions and when power was restored had no issues whatsoever. Boot ups have been fine and trim is still enabled.
I've said this before. I've never had a PRAM sporadically reset from crashes or power cuts.
On modern Macs its very uncommon as far as I know. Never had it happen to me either. PPC macs, sure. But no Intel based ones.
I get a lot of emails, PM's and questions whether it's safe to disable kext-signing and enable Trim on Yosemite and whether I am trying to fix the issue.
First of all, disabling kext-signing leaves you with the same security as Mavericks, i.e admin password is still required to install kexts. However the feature was implemented for a reason, and together with the risk of PRAM resets (although most unlikely to happen by power cuts, but can easily happen if you decide to troubleshoot some other error) the situation is far from ideal.
I am working on a new major new disk utility software which will improve the situation with Trim on Yosemite. It will also offer a pretty wide range of new disk optimization features. I was hoping to have it out by December but realistically it's looking like January-February. I'm really putting all of my effort and knowledge into this new utility, and I think it will be immensely useful for any Mac user regardless if you have a hard drive, Apple SSD or third party SSD.
So I am definitely working on the problem, just need some more time. More details will come "soon".
First of all, disabling kext-signing leaves you with the same security as Mavericks, i.e admin password is still required to install kexts. However the feature was implemented for a reason, and together with the risk of PRAM resets (although most unlikely to happen by power cuts, but can easily happen if you decide to troubleshoot some other error) the situation is far from ideal.
I am working on a new major new disk utility software which will improve the situation with Trim on Yosemite. It will also offer a pretty wide range of new disk optimization features. I was hoping to have it out by December but realistically it's looking like January-February. I'm really putting all of my effort and knowledge into this new utility, and I think it will be immensely useful for any Mac user regardless if you have a hard drive, Apple SSD or third party SSD.
So I am definitely working on the problem, just need some more time. More details will come "soon".
So I am definitely working on the problem, just need some more time. More details will come "soon".
Thanks for your update! Looking forward to a new version of TE!!!
PS Just send your EXTRA working hours bill to Apple @ ATT: Kext Police
I have noticed on Windows 8, for example, that Trim seems to be a process that runs on a schedule. If you run the Defrag tool, you obviously can't defrag a SSD, but SSD trimming is something you set to run, like a HDD defrag.
Even the Intel SSD Tool software has this and it does it that way.
I'm wondering when OSX trims, does it do it on shutdown? Not sure.
I bet a utility like that would suffice for OSX. I know you can do it via command like in standalone single user mode, but that's not practical to do all the time.
Even the Intel SSD Tool software has this and it does it that way.
I'm wondering when OSX trims, does it do it on shutdown? Not sure.
I bet a utility like that would suffice for OSX. I know you can do it via command like in standalone single user mode, but that's not practical to do all the time.
I am working on a new major new disk utility software which will improve the situation with Trim on Yosemite. It will also offer a pretty wide range of new disk optimization features. I was hoping to have it out by December but realistically it's looking like January-February. I'm really putting all of my effort and knowledge into this new utility, and I think it will be immensely useful for any Mac user regardless if you have a hard drive, Apple SSD or third party SSD.
So I am definitely working on the problem, just need some more time. More details will come "soon".
Sounds interesting. Can you give us any details of some of the features you hope to include?
I get a lot of emails, PM's and questions whether it's safe to disable kext-signing and enable Trim on Yosemite and whether I am trying to fix the issue.
First of all, disabling kext-signing leaves you with the same security as Mavericks, i.e admin password is still required to install kexts. However the feature was implemented for a reason, and together with the risk of PRAM resets (although most unlikely to happen by power cuts, but can easily happen if you decide to troubleshoot some other error) the situation is far from ideal.
I am working on a new major new disk utility software which will improve the situation with Trim on Yosemite. It will also offer a pretty wide range of new disk optimization features. I was hoping to have it out by December but realistically it's looking like January-February. I'm really putting all of my effort and knowledge into this new utility, and I think it will be immensely useful for any Mac user regardless if you have a hard drive, Apple SSD or third party SSD.
So I am definitely working on the problem, just need some more time. More details will come "soon".
I really look forward to this. I'm wondering if us paying users of TE will have to purchase the fully featured version. How will it all work?
Also, if possible, please add the NOATIME tweak to your utilities. Would have loved to see that on TE 3.3, but currently doing it the old fashioned way.
Timing of TRIM on OS X
Maybe at unmount time.
Related:
Does OS X sometimes run a TRIM routine with drives that are not explicitly supported?
Maybe at unmount time.
Related:
Does OS X sometimes run a TRIM routine with drives that are not explicitly supported?
Yosemite trim and apple ssd
I have a question I hope someone can give me a clue where to look, I have an ancient mac air mid 2009 running yosemite, the ssd is an apple sm128 however trim shows not enabled. I thought yosemite enabled this by default on APPLE ssd.
I have only been using the mac for 3 months thought i would give it a whirl after a lifetime of windows. I was hoping there would be some nice command line tools to just switch trim on.
I have a question I hope someone can give me a clue where to look, I have an ancient mac air mid 2009 running yosemite, the ssd is an apple sm128 however trim shows not enabled. I thought yosemite enabled this by default on APPLE ssd.
I have only been using the mac for 3 months thought i would give it a whirl after a lifetime of windows. I was hoping there would be some nice command line tools to just switch trim on.
It's a new software, written from scratch, so it will not be a free upgrade. But Trim Enabler users with a license will get a very reasonable upgrade discount, to make the transition fair.
That SSD is too old, it does not support Trim.
Yes and both GC and TRIM are meant to prevent that (do note that both only work when deleting data! if you fill up the ssd neither will prevent the slowdown). TRIM is no different than GC, it's only more efficient in quite a lot of cases (there are problems with TRIM, some implementations cause it to skip cells and thus not clearing out everything and in some cases the way GC does it is just better). If you can't do TRIM but you can do GC (which just about every ssd since 2009 does) you shouldn't worry at all.
Another good reason why you shouldn't worry you can't TRIM your ssd in OS X.
Oh and for those who are wondering why Windows still does defrag when you have an ssd, here is some more info about it: The real and complete story - Does Windows defragment your SSD? In short: it does because of the filesystem.
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