You really don't need a brand-new Mac...

[A1423]

I will upgrade when the cost of supporting the old hardware is stupid vs buying a new one.

My method for buying a computer, especially an Apple computer is I look at what I need to operate my life comfortably, and go up a rung or two. This method has given me the best cost vs ownership experience I’ve ever had with computers.

My current mbp needs, are MBP 16 with 32gb of ram. Therefore I’d upgrade that to 64gb of ram.

Storage: I need 2 terabytes, so I’d go with a 4TB. SSD

So currently I would get a 16 inch MBP M2 Max with 64gb of ram and a 4TB SSD.

 

[marcinsf]

That MBP M2 Max with 64 Gb and 4TB SSD => $4499 currently (+$400 for memory, +$1000 for 4 TB SSD)

now what could I do with $4499?

 

[strukt]

There is a difference between needs, and wants. I think people know that.

 

[ignatius345]

I'm not talking about professionals here or the people who need an upgrade for creative/business reasons, but why do the average consumers think that they always need some brand new M2 Powered Pro Max Macbook Pro for lightly surfing the web, writing emails, listening to music, light office work, and playing a few videos? You could get off with a 2012 MBP or even earlier for that, and slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it if you wanted to. Or just download the older versions of the programs.

It would save them a lot of money. You don't need 16GB of RAM for that either if you download an optimized browser or programs. You don't need subscriptions to everything if you're a basic user, and it doesn't matter if you spill water on it. You can just replace it, or buy another one on the cheap. Or replace the part for a low price. You don't even need AppleCare for that.

I'm not telling people not to buy a new MacBook, but there are other options to consider before you make the big purchase. I am waiting a while and saving up for mine. I am thinking about the usage and the decisions, and I am going to hold off for a bit, until the price is right, and it calls for me to upgrade. It's annoying when people say a MBP 2011, or Macbook 2009/10 is obsolete because they think you can't put X software onto it, when you probably can. People just consume, and they don't think about what it is they are consuming.

/Rantover (Well, is it a rant, or is it more expressing opinions? Anyway, wanted to out that out there because everyone is always pushed to buy the latest and the greatest all of the time, even when they maybe don't need it at all).

I agree and disagree.

I think in the NOW, yes, a lot of users can get away with a base model of whatever MacBook Air is out. Even an M1 Air with 8GB of RAM is plenty capable right now.

But: tomorrow's requirements are always greater. Even if the use case remains the same, every OS update and most third-party software updates get more demanding over time with new features, flashier graphics, etc. Today's "fast enough" has a way of turning into tomorrow's "sluggish" and "laggy". I've gone through this cycle myself over and over.

The only way out of it is to 1) stop updating your OS or; 2) get a faster Mac than you need today, to account for more demanding software down the road. A bit of extra RAM or a faster processor might mean you get another year or two of smooth usability out of the Mac on the back end.

 

[simie]

Why does anyone want to move from an Intel Xeon Mac Pro to a non upgradable computer because Apple are using a custom designed CPU?

I do not want a computer that I cannot replace the CPU. Even if there was a supply of M2's the cost of upgrading would be so expensive that it would not be worth doing!

Hackintosh is dead now and this was losing Apple money considering a Mac Pro costs 5K for a basic configuration. You do the maths, 10 Hackintosh users not purchasing a Apple branded box loses Apple 50K.

 

[The.316]

It’s more about people wanting the latest and greatest, instead of using what is best for their requirements.

I just recently switched from a late 09 27” iMac, to a Mac Mini M2 Pro, base model. Did I need the Pro? No. Could I have gone with a M1 model? Sure. I wanted the latest/greatest, that fits my price point, but because it will be my home PC for the next number of years.

 

[simie]

Do not get me wrong, if you require a faster machine and you can afford it then go for it but be aware of the pro's and con's.

I would probably purchase a new iMac if I thought that I needed it.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

I'm not talking about professionals here or the people who need an upgrade for creative/business reasons, but why do the average consumers think that they always need some brand new M2 Powered Pro Max Macbook Pro for lightly surfing the web, writing emails, listening to music, light office work, and playing a few videos? You could get off with a 2012 MBP or even earlier for that, and slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it if you wanted to. Or just download the older versions of the programs.

It would save them a lot of money. You don't need 16GB of RAM for that either if you download an optimized browser or programs. You don't need subscriptions to everything if you're a basic user, and it doesn't matter if you spill water on it. You can just replace it, or buy another one on the cheap. Or replace the part for a low price. You don't even need AppleCare for that.

I'm not telling people not to buy a new MacBook, but there are other options to consider before you make the big purchase. I am waiting a while and saving up for mine. I am thinking about the usage and the decisions, and I am going to hold off for a bit, until the price is right, and it calls for me to upgrade. It's annoying when people say a MBP 2011, or Macbook 2009/10 is obsolete because they think you can't put X software onto it, when you probably can. People just consume, and they don't think about what it is they are consuming.

/Rantover (Well, is it a rant, or is it more expressing opinions? Anyway, wanted to out that out there because everyone is always pushed to buy the latest and the greatest all of the time, even when they maybe don't need it at all).

Totally. Even many of the actual professionals I know (coders, web designers, film-makers, photographers,graphic artists, etc etc) don't upgrade to the latest thing every 5 minutes. Many of them are using stuff that's several years old. If it still works, why replace it? They have to justify the expense for business reasons, so tend not to spend many thousands every year on computers. Buy a good one and replace it only when it won't do what you need it to any more. I finally retired a 2006 MacPro 1,1 in 2020, because it couldn't natively cope with .dng files form my new camera, and I couldn't upgrade the version of Lightroom, because I couldn't update the OS, etc. I think 14 years is pretty good tbh. I'd upgraded it as much as I could, so it was still a pretty decent machine even by the current standards. Shame to have to retire it tbh; I'm sure it could still be useful to someone.

We live in an age of instant gratification and entitlement. And the landfill sites are already too full. Time to cut back and consider things a bit more.

 

[DCBassman]

I recently sold my cMP 3,1 to a software engineering student, just off to college. He has an M2 MBP, but loves older kit too, and I don't doubt the Cheesegrater will compile code just fine.

 

[Zest28]

This is what the title of this thread said lol.

 

[gpat]

Hackintosh is dead now and this was losing Apple money considering a Mac Pro costs 5K for a basic configuration. You do the maths, 10 Hackintosh users not purchasing a Apple branded box loses Apple 50K.

I doubt that even 1% of Hackintosh users would've had 5k budget for a desktop computer.

 

[Chuckeee]

The question being asked is “how do you future proof?”. The guidelines I used is what killed my previous systems. There is no fixed answer.

For me it is usually the architecture (68K, PowerPC) ages out, the processor is to old a run a MacOS that is required for some piece of software I need to run, hardware failure (HDD don’t count since I consider that more an expected maintenance item) or insufficient RAM. So when I update, I strive to optimize or get the most current of these features.

On the other hand, I never HAD to update my system because the processor was too slow, insufficient GPU, insufficient drive/storage capacity, wrong type of interfaces, battery life, screen size. So when I get a new system I don’t worry about optimizing or improving these characteristics, I just get what is readily available and no worse than what I previously had.

 

[simie]

I doubt that even 1% of Hackintosh users would've had 5k budget for a desktop computer.

Apple look at it as a loss of earnings with the creation of every Hackintosh. It does not matter if the end user could afford to purchase a M2 Mac. Apple does not give a dam who really purchases their products as long as they sell.
As long as management get their big salaries and can have their high lives, they do not care about you or I.

Apple like any other big corporate are like the Ferengi (Star Trek), Profit and greed!!!

 

[gpat]

Apple look at it as a loss of earnings with the creation of every Hackintosh. It does not matter if the end user could afford to purchase a M2 Mac. Apple does not give a dam who really purchases their products as long as they sell.
As long as management get their big salaries and can have their high lives, they do not care about you or I.

Apple like any other big corporate are like the Ferengi (Star Trek), Profit and greed!!!

The Hackintosh scene had pretty much 20 years of life (2005-2025 give or take) and Apple hardly lifted a finger to stop them.
I don't think that they were so much of a nuisance, other companies usually have a much harder take against intellectual property violation (just think about Nintendo when somebody just randomly makes a free fangame with their characters)
There was a DMCA being issued in 2006 but they have been quiet ever since.
No legal action was ever took against InsanelyMac or any other similar community.
They only shut down companies like Psystar that attempted to sell ready-made Hackintoshes for a profit.

 

[Gudi]

Most people should stop second guessing, what most people do and why?

• Most people don’t look at benchmarks.
• Most people don’t upgrade their RAM.
• Most people only use email and facebook.

Guys, we’re not some fancy elite on MacRumors. The average user knows as much as we do on average.

Buying old/used Macs is not as easy and straightforward as it sounds. Sure they are cheaper than when they were brand-new, but they’re also a little bit outdated with little flaws and still somewhat expensive for what they offer. Good deals are rare and people who find them can’t stop talking about them.

Like I can’t shut my mouth about my beloved secondhand M1 iMac, which was a whooping 41% cheaper than what Apple is asking for on their website today. After I bought it, they didn’t immediately release a successor, they only adjusted the price for inflation.😆

 

[AZhappyjack]

I'm not talking about professionals here or the people who need an upgrade for creative/business reasons, but why do the average consumers think that they always need some brand new M2 Powered Pro Max Macbook Pro for lightly surfing the web, writing emails, listening to music, light office work, and playing a few videos? You could get off with a 2012 MBP or even earlier for that, and slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it if you wanted to. Or just download the older versions of the programs.

It would save them a lot of money. You don't need 16GB of RAM for that either if you download an optimized browser or programs. You don't need subscriptions to everything if you're a basic user, and it doesn't matter if you spill water on it. You can just replace it, or buy another one on the cheap. Or replace the part for a low price. You don't even need AppleCare for that.

I'm not telling people not to buy a new MacBook, but there are other options to consider before you make the big purchase. I am waiting a while and saving up for mine. I am thinking about the usage and the decisions, and I am going to hold off for a bit, until the price is right, and it calls for me to upgrade. It's annoying when people say a MBP 2011, or Macbook 2009/10 is obsolete because they think you can't put X software onto it, when you probably can. People just consume, and they don't think about what it is they are consuming.

/Rantover (Well, is it a rant, or is it more expressing opinions? Anyway, wanted to out that out there because everyone is always pushed to buy the latest and the greatest all of the time, even when they maybe don't need it at all).

I got the M2 MBA a few months ago... and love it... my configuration is 16GB/1TB/15".

I'm not 100% sure that I needed 1TB... but wanted the 16GB memory for FCP and Photoshop and for future-proofing ... I could have managed with my old Intel MBA (8GB/512GB/13"), but rendering video is so much faster on the M2... and no matter what, the 15" screen is beautiful, and feels significantly larger than the 13" screen... so for me it was a no-brainer choice...

I do not consider myself a "professional", but I do edit a fair amount of video for the non-profit that I work with... and I could afford it, so, what is it to you? I suggest that you buy/use whatever you need/want and leave the same choice to the rest of us to make or ourselves.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I will upgrade when the cost of supporting the old hardware is stupid vs buying a new one.

My method for buying a computer, especially an Apple computer is I look at what I need to operate my life comfortably, and go up a rung or two. This method has given me the best cost vs ownership experience I’ve ever had with computers.

My current mbp needs, are MBP 16 with 32gb of ram. Therefore I’d upgrade that to 64gb of ram.

Storage: I need 2 terabytes, so I’d go with a 4TB. SSD

So currently I would get a 16 inch MBP M2 Max with 64gb of ram and a 4TB SSD.

Exactly how I would do it... evaluate the situation and choose your best option to move forward.

That MBP M2 Max with 64 Gb and 4TB SSD => $4499 currently (+$400 for memory, +$1000 for 4 TB SSD)

now what could I do with $4499?

This right here. @A1423 chose to spend his $4499 on a new MPB. You can spend your $4499 on whatever you want.

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Exactly how I would do it... evaluate the situation and choose your best option to move forward.



This right here. @A1423 chose to spend his $4499 on a new MPB. You can spend your $4499 on whatever you want.

I would spend the first half of those 4k on 2 new dogs, in addition to the current one, then use the other to buy a M2 Pro MBP.

 

[Saturn007]

I'm sympathetic to the original poster and well-expressed post. We do live in a consumerist society, where people want their shiny new toys and where economic activity and people's livelihoods are dependent upon people buying new things, buying more things, and buying even more.

It seems that Apple is the master of introducing new products with just enough difference (improvement) that people (who feel the need to) can rationalize their purchase by citing a particular feature — 48mp camera; reintroduction of MagSafe; titanium; supposedly thinner; faster processor with same battery life; temperature sensing or crash detection; dynamic island; bigger screen; etc.

I'm right at the tipping point between keeping an old device going and buying new. I've been hanging onto a 2015 13” MBA even though one USB port is shot; the other is flaky typically requiring a non-powered USB hub for iPhones or iPads to connect; noisy fan comes on during certain operations; dull screen compared newer models; runs warm or hot during banking and spreadsheet operations; and battery life is short enough that I need to have the charger handy.

But it has that incredibly useful SD card slot for camera cards, a 1 TB drive needed for all my photos, a good keyboard compared to many recent ones; and that well-worn feel to it that means I worry little about banging it up while schlepping it around, even within the house.

Yet, after listing all the deficiencies, and limited positives, it makes me realize that it is now finally time to seriously consider a brand new (or even refurbished) M2 15” MBA 16GB, 1 TB — perhaps a Black Friday purchase. (While I briefly considered a used, excellent condition, with new battery, 8GB/1TB 2017+ MBA, there are unknowns, quality and wear issues, even with supposed warrantees.)

I relate to the washer, dryer example. We recently had our dryer fixed — at a fraction of the cost of a new one. The old rule of thumb is if the repair costs more than 50% of a new one buy the new one.

Of course, the other wrinkle is that the old ones are easier to repair and last so much longer than the new ones. That's at least one major difference between the household appliance and a Mac laptop. Unlike the dryer, I'd expect a new MBA to have a longevity as good as the old one!

Plus, and of great importance, the gains going from a run-down 2015 to a modern 2023 Mac would be enormous.

Sometimes, it is time to treat oneself!

 

[sgtaylor5]

Was able to work with an M1/8/256 today; Pages and Numbers started as fast as they do with my 2017/2.2 GHz i7/8/256.

What am I missing?

The MacBook in question wasn't mine; that's what was missing. Just got my own M1 MacBook Pro 8/256 and Pages/Numbers does start faster - in two bumps, instead of 5 or 6.

 

[0423MAC]

You mention installing via a patcher or installing Linux like the average person is going to be comfortable with these things. The minute you tell most people to open up a terminal they will be lost.

People actually don't upgrade their PCs as often anymore. You might be trolling around tech forums too much which probably give you a different impression of what's really going on out there.

Also, many have mentioned early Intel Macs. A lot of those macs mentioned shipped with 2GB-4GB RAM standard. Quite frankly that just won't work for most people in 2023. 8GB on a MacBook is fine now, but if you plan to keep it for ~8 years or so? Probably a good idea that go for the 16GB RAM option and a bit more storage on top of that.

 

[avz]

Also, many have mentioned early Intel Macs. A lot of those macs mentioned shipped with 2GB-4GB RAM standard. Quite frankly that just won't work for most people in 2023. 8GB on a MacBook is fine now, but if you plan to keep it for ~8 years or so? Probably a good idea that go for the 16GB RAM option and a bit more storage on top of that.

You mean like this?

 

[0423MAC]

You mean like this?

View attachment 2298886

Yep, its great that old macs were upgradable.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

This is the mentality I spoke to earlier. There are a class of people out there who believe that if you buy more than you need you are fiscally irresponsible and wasting your money. As if they get to decide that for you!

And then the hypocrisy in what some of them (as you and TechnoMonk mention) buy for themselves while deriding others for their purchases.

It's annoying. I don't need other people telling me how to spend my own money.

Exactly.

 

[MBAir2010]

this topic is true, I was going to get a macMini m2 just because the price stayed the same.
instead I unboxed my 11 year old MacBook Pro inserted a fast SSD 1TB drive and installed 800GB of tv shows in  TV program.
the mini would hav been nice, little bit faster and well new but nor needed now.