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Zdnet makes a suggestion for Adobe, quit mac environment altogether
- Thread starter clevin
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i think that adobe should cut their software from mac.
there's no fear here. artists would move to another plataform, or run windows on their macs.
there's no fear here. artists would move to another plataform, or run windows on their macs.
Great idea apart from the loss of productivity of using Windows
I would just keep using CS4 and not worry about the bloat that Adobe puts in every upgrade (it did take 3 versions before I saw any value in upgrading).
I can already see it: Final Brush Studio LOL.
Seriously speaking, Apple could just as well as buy some developers and come up with an Adobe Creative Suite competitor, probably for much less (like they did with Avid). So it's only Adobe who would lose. Few are gonna switch to PCs, and it doesn't look like PC users are determined to pay for their apps. Think about it:
8% of the world's computer users make up 50% of Photoshop's profits.
90% of the world's computer users make up the other 50%.
Seriously speaking, Apple could just as well as buy some developers and come up with an Adobe Creative Suite competitor, probably for much less (like they did with Avid). So it's only Adobe who would lose. Few are gonna switch to PCs, and it doesn't look like PC users are determined to pay for their apps. Think about it:
8% of the world's computer users make up 50% of Photoshop's profits.
90% of the world's computer users make up the other 50%.
Who cares? The sooner we get rid of Flash the better.
Even Silverlight is significantly better than Flash.
This would make sense only if somewhere around 90% of Adobe Mac customers followed it over to Windows. You don't believe that some other developer will enter the market and attempt to fill the void left by Adobe? Maybe Apple? Maybe even Microsoft?
We'd all be much better off if, instead, Apple and Adobe worked more closely.
People may dislike Flash, but if it ran well I'd have much less to complain about.
The loss of Photoshop, InDesign, Acrobat, etc., would be devastating to the platform. Not just because a lot of industries depend on them to get actual work done, but because part of the appeal of the Mac platform has for some time been the perception that creative people actually use them for serious high-end video/graphics work. Gimp and Pixelmator just don't cut it.
Working in publishing, I wouldn't be able to continue working on a Mac without these programs available.
Optimistic people might think Apple would rise to fill the gaps in high-end software of this sort, but their apparent recent action with, for example, FCP seems to suggest otherwise.
I don't think anyone seriously wants their desktop OS to start looking like it has the depth of the iPhone app store.
People may dislike Flash, but if it ran well I'd have much less to complain about.
The loss of Photoshop, InDesign, Acrobat, etc., would be devastating to the platform. Not just because a lot of industries depend on them to get actual work done, but because part of the appeal of the Mac platform has for some time been the perception that creative people actually use them for serious high-end video/graphics work. Gimp and Pixelmator just don't cut it.
Working in publishing, I wouldn't be able to continue working on a Mac without these programs available.
Optimistic people might think Apple would rise to fill the gaps in high-end software of this sort, but their apparent recent action with, for example, FCP seems to suggest otherwise.
I don't think anyone seriously wants their desktop OS to start looking like it has the depth of the iPhone app store.
We'll eventually get to that. The App Store, however, will get very, very deep.
There's nothing wrong with FCP. It has a great deal of share. It will likely evolve to function on the iPad or a future iPad-like device from Apple. We're not there yet, but there will come a time when the notebook as you know it will cease to exist, and Apple will be the first to get us there.
Nothing wrong with FCP? Though I don't work in video and I'm sure that FCP is wonderful, did you miss this?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/866809/
I suppose that could happen, but it isn't all that likely. When it happened to Premiere it was an easy target that had been neglected by Adobe. Photoshop on the other hand is at the top of mountain with regular updates, a universe of plug-ins and external effects, and universal acceptance.
InDesign isn't quite to the same point, but it is largely the de-facto program for publishing nowadays, having nearly thrown Quark to the curb.
If those two applications went Windows-only, along with a discontinuation of support for their OS X counterparts, you can bet that a number of shops would have to buy beige on their next upgrade cycle or when CS5 comes out.
That doesn't necessarily mean anything.
http://macsoda.com/2010/02/26/steve-jobs-final-cut-pro-is-alive-and-well/
Final Cut Studio has reached a lot over the years, I think. Before it was released, there was just Avid. Nothing else. Now Final Cut Studio has gained a lot of ground.
Same thing for Logic Studio and Aperture, they're both very good and professional apps (yes, they've got their issues, but honestly, don't Adobe's apps swim in bugs and issues?)
I think they could make some valid competitors in they wanted. Buy out the Pixelmator team, a good team of programmers and in a couple of version you're already there for most of the people (supposing that 3D capabilities would come later). They've got all the resources they need, I don't think it would really be an issue to replace the Adobe suite, but then again I don't think that this stupid Flash quarrels would make Adobe risk so much. Because in the end either Adobe could really lose a lot if the Mac creatives didn't all switch to PCs.
Yes, maybe it doesn't mean anything, but the video people still seem to be worried.
I mean, it certainly does indicate some problem with public relations on Apple's part when people working in the video industry get worried Apple might just pull out at some point. The company's secretive nature doesn't do them any favours when it comes to software.
Anyway, the bottom line is that competition is good, but limiting options isn't. I'd rather see Apple compete with Adobe than see them have to fill a serious hole in OS X's software offerings. Adobe pulling out would be bad, whether or not we see a serious Photoshop competitor from Apple. It would be great to see Apple introduce a legitimate Photoshop competitor (or a competitor to InDesign, or Illustrator, etc.), but it hurts users when there's only one game in town. After all, that's another reason people complain so much about Adobe!
There are a number of things that are wrong w/FCP... but for $1000 it's hard to beat it a cost perspective, generally speaking. And while I'm sure there will be iPad apps that allow basic interfacing w/FCP (just like the iPhone already has) I really, really, really, really doubt there will be a 'FCP lite' for the iPad unless it's little more than iMovie. Even then, gesture and touch based editing will suck for anything more that the most basic of tasks (especially if you are doing it one handed). Also, if the notebook as we know it is going to cease to exist the iPad as we know will have to cease to exist, too. How do you get media onto the iPad w/o using another computer? How does the iPad connect to a broadcast monitor, a tape deck or external storage?
What do you expect the official company line to be other than everything is fine? Is FCP alive and well in the same way that Apple isn't interested in making a cell phone, no one would want to watch video on a tiny iPod screen and the iPad is going to be great for publishers even though, according to Jobs, no one reads anymore?
Like I said in another thread, actions speak louder than words so I'll continue to judge the health of the ProApps based on what Apple does w/them not what Apple says they will do with them.
Nothing else but Avid? Seriously? Premiere, Media100, SpeedEDIT, Vegas, the entire Pinnacle line, Discreet Edit, etc.,.
Lethal
Not a Problem
I think Apple SHOULD buy Adobe.
It's not like they would need to micromanage Adobe afterward.
Install an Apple alum in charge, schedule Flash to transition immediately to H.264, and encourage Cocoa adoption across the board.
Once Apple owns Adobe, they won't have to worry about M$ threatening to cancel M$ Office ever again, as Apple could just respond by canceling all Adobe apps for Windows.
What else is $40 billion dollars good for? Adobe's market cap is barely $18 billion, chump change by comparison.
I think Apple SHOULD buy Adobe.
It's not like they would need to micromanage Adobe afterward.
Install an Apple alum in charge, schedule Flash to transition immediately to H.264, and encourage Cocoa adoption across the board.
Once Apple owns Adobe, they won't have to worry about M$ threatening to cancel M$ Office ever again, as Apple could just respond by canceling all Adobe apps for Windows.
What else is $40 billion dollars good for? Adobe's market cap is barely $18 billion, chump change by comparison.
Steve Jobs called out Adobe on their poor code quality in their Flash product and now some writer fishing for hits is suggesting they take their ball and go home?
Seriously?
I'd love to see the level of hate mail he received, but its not even remotely realistic to kill their product line on Mac, considering the growth of the platform over the last 2 years.
There would be a Shareholder revolt and most of the managers would be gone in less than a heartbeat of it becoming public.
Seriously?
I'd love to see the level of hate mail he received, but its not even remotely realistic to kill their product line on Mac, considering the growth of the platform over the last 2 years.
There would be a Shareholder revolt and most of the managers would be gone in less than a heartbeat of it becoming public.
But it does suck on netbooks, which seem to be very popular as of right now.
I still don't think that they are planning to kill it. It's thriving, and it's gaining more and more market share. It's certainly another reason for people to buy Macs. I know, they have eliminated Shake, but I don't think it was as important to them.
Seriously? Tell me, who in the high-end professional market used Premiere (hell, even now they're barely getting any of that marketshare)? Or Vegas? Or Pinnacle?! Avid was the one and only in the high-end professional market, and now Final Cut has gained quite a lot of ground.
That would be very interesting. If they made those apps Mac-only, they would be the absolute kings of the high-end creative market (a step up from where they are now).
Agreed. Premiere was highly annoying, Windows and Mac, for consumers. I can't imagine professionals putting up with that buggy software.
My brother-in-law owns a post-production house in LA/NY. They were strictly an Avid shop until Apple started skimping on PCI slots. Now, I think they have one Avid editing station - the rest are all FCP.
It's funny you mention Shake because that's pretty much what I'm afraid Apple is gonna do w/the other ProApps. Shake was one of, if not the, best compositing app and Apple bought it, let it languish before eventually killing it. I'm much more afraid of Apple letting the Final Cut Suite slide into mediocrity than I am of them flat out killing it. The first 6 or 7 years of FCP's existence Apple was really brining the fight but the last three or four Adobe and Avid have been making greater strides while Apple just seems to be coasting on the momentum they built up, IMO.
Premiere has better integration w/the other apps in the Creative Suite than FCP does w/the Final Cut Suite, better integration w/Red (even though Apple basically had a year of exclusivity w/Red and did nothing w/the opportunity), and Blu-ray authoring. Avid has better tapeless media support (no transcoding or re-wrapping required), a much better 'open timeline' implementation (by comparison I see more and more people recommending to stay away from this feature in FCP), and the latest version of Avid Script Sync is awesome.
Oh, so you were taking about the high-end professional market (must've missed that stipulation in your previous post). If you mean the high-end market that was and still is dominated by Avid then nothing really has changed. If you are talking about the high-end market where FCP has made some inroads then, yes, there were other NLEs there besides Avid and before FCP. If you want to talk about the market where FCP has had the most impact, the prosumer market, then you are talking about even more NLEs.
Anyway, doesn't admitting that there were other NLEs that existed besides Avid do a better job at proving your point about FCP's growth? I mean, being in second place when there are only two people in the race isn't nearly as impressive as coming from the rear of the pack and passing four or five people on your way to second place.
The guys from Bandito Brothers, VFX master and DIY filmmaker Stu Maschwitz and quite a few TV stations owned by Hearst Television are just a few examples of professionals using Premiere Pro. PPro even played a role in the post production pipeline of "Avatar".
I always get a kick out of FCP users/supporters snubbing their noses at 'lesser apps' when FCP was considered a lesser app not that many years ago (and still is considered a lesser app by many today).
Lethal
I don't think so simply because Final Cut Pro is one of the Mac's "Killer apps". Just like Logic or Aperture. Shake was mostly used in the very high end video editing, and AFAIK did not that have that much of a market share.
Depends on how you look at it. I've found the improvements to FCP to be marginal, but I think that the rest of the suite has been pumped up pretty well.
Agree on that one, that is indeed one very strong point of the CS4 suites.
I don't have sufficient experience to comment on this
But there must be something that FCP's better at...right? For instance, I found Premiere to be a lot heavier on the system than FCP. My eraly 2009 high-end iMac choked with Premiere, even with relatively low-def videos. Of course this is just a trivial example.Sorry if I didn't specify. I think that the situation has pretty much changed a lot from the Pre-FCP area. FCP's market share has gone up quite a lot, especially in the prosumer segment but in the high end one as well. I see more and more new movies being either edited exclusively with FCP or with both Avid and FCS (I suppose the latter for advanced special effects)
I guess so, but I never found the competition determined to enter the high end market, besides Premiere Pro.
But it was used exclusively as a NLE and just to put up the clips together. I mean, all the special effects were done using the other Adobe apps, especially After Effects. If they used Final Cut Studio, they could've done the same (probably), but obviously in the end the Creative Suite came up as more economical. If you look at the video, they describe how they used Adobe's apps to make special effects and textures, and in the end they're like "Oh, and we used Premiere to put everything together".
I'm not saying that Premiere is bad, but I think that Final Cut Studio comes up as more economical if you don't need the Adobe suite, as it offers a full post-processing suite.
But that's the thing, Apple knowing bought a big fish in a small, high profile pond and killed it in a few short years. IMO Apple realized that market place was too demanding for them and back-peddled out as gracefully as they could. I'd like to think that the ProApps are prestige pieces for Apple, much like how F1 and NASCAR are prestige pieces for automakers, but if you look at the bottom line the ProApps are loss leaders primarily selling big, expensive desktops which don't generate the numbers that laptops, iMacs, iPods or iPhones do so that's where the questions seep in (especially w/how FC Studio just seems to have been coasting the past few years).
Shake is a compositing app, not an editing app, BTW.
Sound Track Pro is a mess, DVD SP 4 was released in '05 and Compressor/Qmaster has been notably unstable since FCS 2. Motion is good for what it does and I'd like to seem them grow the app even more but I don't know if they will. Color, once you get passed all the quirks, is a great app but after two years it only got a .5 update (that was little more than giant a bug fix) Final Cut Server also seems to be another big purchase that just gets treated like an after thought.
There is a lot to like about the Final Cut Suite (ProRes, for example... except for the fact that it's a closed codec), but most of it centers around its price. If the Suite was $2k or so I think the choice between Adobe, Avid and Apple would be much harder for most people to make.I don't have sufficient experience to comment on this
FCP has definitely made inroads into what was traditionally Avid dominated territory. 20th FOX, for example, does all of it's offline editing w/FCP, but hearing about a network TV show or hollywood movie being cut w/FCP is still rare enough to be notable when it happens. Both FCP and Avid are editors and aren't really used for special effects shots are compositing on bigger budget projects.
Much of the competition was severely undercut by Apple who can price their software at ridiculously low levels because they make their money selling the only computers that will run said software. Steve Jobs is also a master showman who is fantastic at selling his wares. Talk to editors who been cutting since the '90's, if not longer, and they can probably rattle off a number of NLEs that existed prior to FCP catching the world on fire.
I'm not sure I follow because Premiere Pro *is* an NLE so what else would they have used it for? I don't think FC Studio would've been a good substitute because it doesn't offer very comparable apps (no Photoshop or AE equivalent for example) and PPro can read project files exported out of Avid (as AAF). PPro can also read project files from FCP (as XML) and w/the timeline sharing features of CS this can be a useful way to get your FCP timeline into AE.But it was used exclusively as a NLE and just to put up the clips together. I mean, all the special effects were done using the other Adobe apps, especially After Effects. If they used Final Cut Studio, they could've done the same (probably), but obviously in the end the Creative Suite came up as more economical. If you look at the video, they describe how they used Adobe's apps to make special effects and textures, and in the end they're like "Oh, and we used Premiere to put everything together".
And a hammer is a better tool if you need to drive nails but not if you need to screw two pieces of wood together.
The best app for the job is the one that best fits your needs. FCP is my NLE of choice generally speaking, but Avid MC and PPro have come along so much that I'm planning on picking them up as well. I don't think the Final Cut Suite is a bad investment or anything like that, but from being a FCP user for around 8 years I'm just disappointed w/what I feel like is a lack, or lessening, of commitment by Apple to the apps in recent years.
Lethal
And Apple decided firewire wasn't needed anymore because "all recent video cameras use USB." Except with the huge backlash that move received, Apple went back to including firewire in their 13" form. Or how everyone would want the mirror glossy displays, except they now have the matte screen option again.
If you throw what is considered useless mud against the wall, sometimes it sticks, but sometimes it doesn't.
The App Store is Apple's little government project, especially if they move it into the fullsize computer market. Anyone wanting to put software on an Apple device must pay the 30% Apple Tax.
And FCP will eventually work its way to the ipad? No. A basic movie editor, maybe. But in a field of broadcast monitors, multi-23"-30" displays, dedicated keyboards, tape decks, and etc, I fail to see how FCP can be functional on a 10" closed box.
All Flash conversion to H.264 makes absolutely no sense, considering video is only a portion of what Flash content offers. H.264 will not suffice in interactive web design or game portals.
If Apple ran Adobe, they would eventually kill the programs. They are not gadget-friendly, and I doubt Apple would see a use in keeping them around if they only appeal to their professional market.
So, bad idea. Lots of love for Apple, yes. But complete absence of good thought.