The moment you said you wanted to keep the machine a long time, your decision was made. 2018 will let you do just that.
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15" Macbook Pro (2015) vs. 15" Macbook Pro (2018)
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Sorry if I misinterpreted you here..
Some of the posts have made it hard for me to make heads or tails of things in this thread.
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My concern here would be: Which machine will likely have all components working correctly 4 years from now when it's off AppleCare?
2015 or 2018?
I know where I'd put my money
The 2015 was one of the few MBPs Apple released with no known issues, other than staingate, which affects every single one from 2012 through 2018, so that's basically a moot point. Is it possible the coating on the 2018s is more durable? Maybe, but then I would also reasonably expect any refurbished models to have that updated coating as well, or any of the later 2015 models that were last off the line in July of this year.
Meanwhile, the 2018 has massive keyboard problems (only a matter of time before Apple adds it to the 4 year keyboard program), T2 kernel panics, cracking speakers, etc. Could the latter issues be software? Sure, but wouldn't it be odd then that it's taken Apple more than half a year to fix any of those issues? So far, no fix on the horizon. But even if they did fix those, you're stuck with the dastardly keyboard, and once four years are up, are you going to shell out $700 to fix a broken keyboard on a 4 year old laptop?
You might buy a 2015 with a one off issue, sure, it happens, but there are no known design flaws in the 2015 (sans staingate) and that is invaluable. I think at this point it's time to make a decision, you should know by now what you want.
Meanwhile, the 2018 has massive keyboard problems (only a matter of time before Apple adds it to the 4 year keyboard program), T2 kernel panics, cracking speakers, etc. Could the latter issues be software? Sure, but wouldn't it be odd then that it's taken Apple more than half a year to fix any of those issues? So far, no fix on the horizon. But even if they did fix those, you're stuck with the dastardly keyboard, and once four years are up, are you going to shell out $700 to fix a broken keyboard on a 4 year old laptop?
You might buy a 2015 with a one off issue, sure, it happens, but there are no known design flaws in the 2015 (sans staingate) and that is invaluable. I think at this point it's time to make a decision, you should know by now what you want.
Damn I guess I snoozed on the purchase all Four MAXED OUT 15" MacBook Pro's are SOLD within few hours of this post...It's crazy how fast they sell these machines...I wonder if Apple will put up more Top end spec up for sale...Are ppl sending their Macs in or are these leftover that Apple is clearing out from stock?
Anyhow I was watching this YouTuber and he showed that Light Room lags with the Top Spec 2015 Macbook Pro..How true is that? Anyone experience this on their maxed out 2015?
Anyhow I was watching this YouTuber and he showed that Light Room lags with the Top Spec 2015 Macbook Pro..How true is that? Anyone experience this on their maxed out 2015?
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There's a reason!
Great machines that are in short supply in new/nearly new condition
The refurb store inventory is generally quite unstable. A lot of us have learned this the hard way just like you. If you see what you want in the refurb store, don't dither. Get it. It's not just the 2015 units that disappear quickly. Almost all of them disappear quickly. Four units is not a lot of inventory. Those might have been gone by the time you came back to MacRumors to ask for confirmation on your purchase.
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Do you use Lightroom? It lags on just about everything. True the latest specs might have the extra horsepower to push it along better, but Lightroom is well known to be a total dog. They've made some improvements in performance recently, but I can't see it suddenly being one of the snappier photo management /editor apps. Last year some engineer custom built a high end Lightroom PC work station and found it still lagged even when attacked with top of the line everything components selected explicitly for the task of pwning Lightroom.
Hey..yes I use Lightroom and Final Cut Pro as well as other softwares...Some ppl are saying 2015 is starting to show it's age...It's like the 2012 Macbook Pro's after the hype things do start to slow down a bit. Anyone here with a 2015 Maxed Out experience this? I am still waiting until June 2019 to see what Apple brings to the table. Meanwhile I am checking the reburb store and seeing what pops up again...Hopefully more comes for sale...
As I wait for more to show up on the Apple site...Let me know what you guys think of this comparison in this YouTube video? He seems like he knows what he is talking about as he went from a 15" 2015 to 15" 2018 Macbook Pro. I was amazed at the render times in Final Cut Pro between the 2015 maxed out and 2018 i9...I gotta say the i9 is a beast and it is pretty impressive...That is a huge leap in saving time through out the days and weeks...
((If you don't want to watch the whole thing go to time frame 7:35 on the video..))
((If you don't want to watch the whole thing go to time frame 7:35 on the video..))
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For those of us not inclined to watch the video, would you be so kind as to share the specs and acquisition cost comparison?
That certainly would need to factor in.
It is of course not at all surprising that a newer and higher specced machine that costs a lot more would do something better or faster.
I'm astounded. How can someone who's typing on a keyboard with less travel (both positive and negative) for the keys to move less movement in their fingers to type have more fatigue? If you're a touch typist then your fingers are already resting in the home row keys. sure we lift our fingers yet if you're like me who's learned to type on a manual typewriter then you're mashing keys not designe to be mashed ... so a great mental adjustment has to be made and conciously for some time to get used tto it.
2015 MBP 13" are under 700 on eBay ... good quality 15" are about 800-950 so great estimate.
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Hellow felly Toronton-ian.
Order it as a student for a discount. Either you as a student or a family member that is a student.
like i said, it depends on whether you get used to it or not. i never did so i pun the laptop off to my brother, it does sound counter intuitive, i'll give you that, less space = more fatique? but i guess its about the comfort of the key, the butterfly are just not comfortable to type on for me. i guess a exaggeration would be typing on a tablet. would you say you enjoy laying down the ipad and type on the screen?
Since you put it like that I fully understand now. And no typing on the iPad flat on a table is definitely not comfortable, strange even.
Ergonomics is a tricky thing. The "most ergonomic" device differs from one body type to another and from one personality type to another. When I say personality, I mean a wide array of factors that influence how you physically use something.
To a hard striker, most scissor switch keyboards are already terrible. A super flat butterfly switch keyboard would be a nightmare unless they can learn to change, but some of them can't and some just don't want to. (I was actually a member of the latter group until hand injuries forced me to be more pragmatic.)
How you rest your palms will also affect how comfortable a butterfly keyboard is to type on. For most people, it really favors a flatter hand shape that's different from the classical hand posture used on a conventional keyboard. If your hands are just too big to adopt a more flat hand posture, it might be very hard not to strike the keys much harder than is ideal, leading to fatigue and discomfort.
These examples just scratch the surface. I'm sure you get the idea that the range of factors is enormous. Ultimately, doing anything in a novel way requires more effort and all physical things being equal, some people are just better at adapting than others. Some people are just natural athletes who are better able to learn new movement patterns.
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I have a maxed out 15" 2015, been editing Nikon D800 (36MP) and lately D850 (46MP) RAWs with Lightroom with it. Yes it is dog slow. I got a maxed out 2017 iMac 5K as well which is orders of magnitude smoother than this MBP in some tasks, but still LR can manage to lag during some pain points.
I don't own or have not tried the 2018 MBPs for long enough to say for sure, but judging by hard specs, benchmarks, and (limited) user reports on the internet, the increased core counts and the VEGA graphics both help LR by a margin. I watched a video with an actual user doing LR interfacing on a VEGA MBP, I can tell it is at least on par if not smoother than my iMac 2017, even down to development module quick edits + brushing.
That said, the 2015 MBP still has its obvious advantages which are already well discussed in this thread. For anyone who value reliability, and must run macOS natively, it is probably still the best laptop option since Apple pretty much ****ed up their entire lineup at this moment. LR and FCPX are still very usable on this 2015, just that you need to be aware of the fact it's not the most powerful machine to do so. I don't know what's worse, wasting time for the MBP to load/render, or losing time to deal with broken keys and T2 kernel panics. I consider my iMac 2017 + MBP 2015 a pretty solid pair of setup at this time in Mac ownership context, since they are both more than reliable, with the iMac very sufficiently powerful, and the MBP being a workhorse while being reasonably portable.
I just bought a 2015 15" MBP in 2019.
My 2011 17" MBP ate another video card last week. After looking at my options which included new / refurb 2016/17/18 MacBook Pro's, 2017 iMac's, and the 2018 Mac Mini; I found a mint 2015 MBP 15" 2.5/16/512 machine with nearly 18 months of Applecare remaining and bought it.
The 2.2 i7 and spin drive in my 2011 machine has never been an issue so the 2.5 i7 and SSD in the 2015 should get the job done and then some. I use it for surfing, email, processing RAW photos, occasional video editing, and PS/AI stuff. Ports were never a consideration as I have limited need to plug anything in.
I'd like to have the latest and greatest but living in a rural area, dust is an issue which means I have no interest in rolling the dice on a butterfly keyboard of any generation. I also don't want to deal with T2 teething issues, crackling / dead speakers, or any of the other happenings with the newer machines.
Bottom line, the 2015 MBP performance will meet my needs for the foreseeable future and I feel pretty confident in the reliability compared to the newer machines.
My 2011 17" MBP ate another video card last week. After looking at my options which included new / refurb 2016/17/18 MacBook Pro's, 2017 iMac's, and the 2018 Mac Mini; I found a mint 2015 MBP 15" 2.5/16/512 machine with nearly 18 months of Applecare remaining and bought it.
The 2.2 i7 and spin drive in my 2011 machine has never been an issue so the 2.5 i7 and SSD in the 2015 should get the job done and then some. I use it for surfing, email, processing RAW photos, occasional video editing, and PS/AI stuff. Ports were never a consideration as I have limited need to plug anything in.
I'd like to have the latest and greatest but living in a rural area, dust is an issue which means I have no interest in rolling the dice on a butterfly keyboard of any generation. I also don't want to deal with T2 teething issues, crackling / dead speakers, or any of the other happenings with the newer machines.
Bottom line, the 2015 MBP performance will meet my needs for the foreseeable future and I feel pretty confident in the reliability compared to the newer machines.
I'm still debating selling my 2015 2.8 model for one of the 2018 2.6 versions, both 16GB/512GB. Seems that in a lot of ways it's a sideways move, but I'm not super worried about the purported issues with the current model. If anything goes wrong, then I can get it sorted through AppleCare.
Because of the discounts on the newest model, to me it seems like a decent shout to upgrade before my current model drops in value too much.
Because of the discounts on the newest model, to me it seems like a decent shout to upgrade before my current model drops in value too much.
I wouldn't consider it a side grade especially since the 2018 models are 6 core with faster internal storage. You'll get some additional performance for sure.
I'd get 2015 but only if it's a great price, on eBay there are a lot of great quality used 2015 for $1000-1500.
Paying $3000+ for 2015 in 2019 is a really bad investment.
Also the 2015 2.8ghz is not worth it, it more noisy than then 2.5 and doesn't really get you that much more.
Paying $3000+ for 2015 in 2019 is a really bad investment.
Also the 2015 2.8ghz is not worth it, it more noisy than then 2.5 and doesn't really get you that much more.
I should start a snake oil business! If anyone believes that the issues are as widespread as a few of the users here claim, and therefore a three and a half year old computer is a better buy, I am sure I could make some good money.
There is zero data to support that greater than a few percent of users have issues with the 2016+ MacBook Pros. In fact, the only data I have seen on the keyboard issue shows that the 2016 and 2017 have fewer warranty repairs than both the 2014 and 2015. Now, a larger percentage of those repairs were for the keyboard which shows that the keyboard itself is definitely less reliable although no indication that it affects more than a single-digit percent of users.
There is no doubt that the 2016+ keyboard is less reliable than previous years. However, the incident rate is still low enough that odds are you will not have an issue. As for everything else, there is reason to believe the 2016+ is actually more reliable. Look at the data below.
In the end, it makes little sense to purchase a machine that has a couple more single use ports with a processor that is four generations ago, and a significantly slower dGPU instead of a much faster machine with modern ports. Look at those threads of people complaining. The number of different users complaining is a tiny percentage of the users here. These machines do have some reliability concerns, but nowhere near the level that some users claim.
Here is the data I am referring to that was widely reported earlier in 2018. Note that the percentage of keyboard failure was in relation to warranty repairs, not total devices.
There is zero data to support that greater than a few percent of users have issues with the 2016+ MacBook Pros. In fact, the only data I have seen on the keyboard issue shows that the 2016 and 2017 have fewer warranty repairs than both the 2014 and 2015. Now, a larger percentage of those repairs were for the keyboard which shows that the keyboard itself is definitely less reliable although no indication that it affects more than a single-digit percent of users.
There is no doubt that the 2016+ keyboard is less reliable than previous years. However, the incident rate is still low enough that odds are you will not have an issue. As for everything else, there is reason to believe the 2016+ is actually more reliable. Look at the data below.
In the end, it makes little sense to purchase a machine that has a couple more single use ports with a processor that is four generations ago, and a significantly slower dGPU instead of a much faster machine with modern ports. Look at those threads of people complaining. The number of different users complaining is a tiny percentage of the users here. These machines do have some reliability concerns, but nowhere near the level that some users claim.
Here is the data I am referring to that was widely reported earlier in 2018. Note that the percentage of keyboard failure was in relation to warranty repairs, not total devices.
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If it's as insignificant as you are stating, then why did Apple launch a 4-year replacement program for 2016 gen but not for 2015 gen? I don't think that data you quoted is telling the whole story.
He didn't say it was insignificant. He said there was definitely a problem, but nothing close to the level that is believed to be present from people in the MacRumors forums. He spoke specifically to the observation that people are buying three year old machines because they over estimate the potential of their keyboard having problems.
There is a higher than normal chance that there will be a keyboard problem. Even so, you're most likely going to be fine or if you have any problems, they'll be temporary or minor.
Anyway, to stay on topic... if you're buying a 3 year old machine because you like it better and it does the job you need it to do, go for it! A lot of my favorite computing devices are way older than 3 years.
On the other hand if you're choosing older tech out of fear... no just no. Don't do it, especially not over something like a keyboard that wouldn't cause total system failure. If logic boards were going up in smoke, I think you might have greater reason to pause, but don't give in to fear over a keyboard.
Not saying it is insignificant or not widespread. Simply stating that the majority do not have the issue. The failure rate is likely in the low single digits. They launched a repair program because the failure rate is higher than they find acceptable and because of public relations. If it were truly as bad as people make it out to be, you would have seen a full redesign by now. Look, I agree that the keyboards are, or at least were, failing at a higher than normal rate. I do not believe the problem is so bad that the odds are a person will experience a failure, and certainly not bad enough to decide that a three and a half year old machine is a worthwhile investment in order to avoid the chance of a keyboard failure.
None of this is to mention the fact that this data shows that the 2016+ are more reliable in every other respect than earlier models. Not looking for a long back and forth. Just trying to provide some balance to the usual forum echo chamber. It is flat out bad advice to tell someone they should pay a significant sum for an outdated computer because of a flaw that affects at most 1 in 10. If you can get the 2015 for a great price, or you have a specific need it fills (like the port flexibility), then that is a different story, but I cannot see paying anywhere close to full price for one at this point otherwise.
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