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smbu2000

macrumors 6502
Oct 19, 2014
469
220
That's too bad that they cancelled your order. It would have been nice for some contact or email or something about it. I'm sure other deals will come around again.

I just picked up another 2015 15" MBP myself at a good price (2.8/1TB/non-dgpu model). I'm giving my current 2015 15" (2.5/512GB/AMD dGPU) model to my girlfriend. She's been using my late 2013 13" MBP for awhile now, but she wanted the extra GPU power of the dGPU model. I don't need it at all in my portable system as my main Mac is the 2018 Mac Mini (i7/32GB/512GB) with eGPU.
I was looking at upgrading the ssd in the MBP and this 1TB one works great for me.
 
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Tech_Mac_Man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 18, 2018
118
51
Toronto, ON
I got my fingers crossed for the June/July 2019 15" MacBook Pro UPDATE!!

I am hoping APPLE got their shiiiitttttt together and solved most of the issues from 2016-2018 on the MacBook Pro's...
 

inhalexhale1

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2011
1,101
745
PA
Hi there...thank you for taking the time to let me know about the issues...When is the next refresh for the Macbook Pro is it in June or July of 2019? New feature you mean Intel's NEW Sunny Cove processor that Apple will go with...?

There is no guarantee of a redesigned model in 2019, or if the new redesign would be "better". Many people think the 2016 redesign is not a better design (mainly due to the keyboard, Touch Bar having limited utility or being cumbersome), and there is no way of knowing what they might change in a future revision.
 

danwells

macrumors 6502a
Apr 4, 2015
783
617
On 2015 vs. 2018, the performance for what the OP wants is going to be a huge difference. I have a 2017 Kaby Lake (high-end stock model, but no BTO upgrades), and I previously had a 2015 with the BTO processor that a friend who wanted the ports bought off of me. I was surprised how much faster the 2017 is in Lightroom - the 6-core 2018 is going to be in a different league, especially with the Vega as well.

At this point, I consider the USB-C ports an advantage - they certainly were not earlier in the lifecycle. An increasing number of devices are now USB-C - including the iPad, and if rumors are correct, soon the iPhone as well. Many newer cameras are USB-C - I'm presently charging my Nikon Z7 on a bus, using my MacBook Pro power adapter. Newer portable and desktop storage tends to be USB-C, because it's fast enough for anything except a few corner cases (RAIDed NVMe SSDs and 8+ drive RAIDs, especially with SSD caching, still need Thunderbolt). Most printers these days are wireless, and those that aren't are easily taken care of with a standard USB to USB-C cable

Better still, the Apple USB-C ports are also Thunderbolt 3, which allows them to adapt to any port ever made for a desktop computer - from RS-232 and Centronics parallel printer ports (USB-C) to 10 gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel (Thunderbolt 3). Unfortunately, the 2-in-1 port adds cable confusion since the cables look identical except for subtle markings that can wear off, but aren't interchangeable.

I do wish they'd left one old-style USB port on there - the one real pain is flash drives. Some newer ones are double-ended, supporting both USB-C and classic USB - but the vast majority, and nearly all "giveaway" drives, aren't. The SD slot and HDMI ports are also noticeable losses. HDMI (and DisplayPort) to USB-C cables are commonplace, so monitors don't need an adapter - just a new cable - but the native HDMI port was useful for connecting to projectors and TVs using existing cables.

As for 2018 vs. 2019:

If the 2019 uses Sunny Cove, it's also likely to be late in the year - Intel is promising the mobile chips for second half 2019, which could easily mean "we got a few out the door for Ultrabooks on December 31". Maybe Intel will be faster than I expect, but their track record on 10nm chips leaves something to be desired... If the Sunny Cove release is delayed, the 2019 MBP could easily be WWDC 2020.

On the other hand, Sunny Cove is supposed to bring a meaningful improvement in instructions per clock - the first time in years we've seen a performance increase that isn't attributed to simply adding cores. I suppose at least some of the mobile chips could also be 8-core? If Sunny Cove is all that Intel says it is, it's a potentially major performance improvement,. It will certainly support 32 GB of RAM without the power compromise in the 2018 MBP, and it could support 64 GB.

There is a very slight possibility Apple might adopt mobile Ryzen, but it would take a completely different chip than AMD has now. Right now, there's no Ryzen even close to requirements for the 15" MBP - all mobile chips are dual or quad-core and none benchmark as fast as the 2015 MBP - they are all 15 watt Ultrabook chips, not 45 watt workstation chips.

I would be shocked if an Apple A-series chip showed up in a 15" MBP, at least in the near future. I would not be at all surprised if an A-series chip showed up in the MacBook fairly soon, but the 15" MBP needs a much higher power chip that Apple doesn't have. The MacBook can literally use an iPad Pro chip, maybe with extra RAM, a higher clock speed and/or extra graphics cores. The 15" MacBook Pro would need not only a different chip, but a chip with different CPU cores - more Tempest cores wouldn't be enough. Apple's not going to make that investment in a high-power core until they've had other Macs on A-series for a while.

7nm (AMD and TSMC count such things differently from Intel, so it's actually similar to Intel's 10nm process) mobile Vega or Navi GPUs are also at least possible for the 2019 MBP. Depending on exact configurations, they could improve performance significantly over even the Vega 20, and certainly over anything found on previous MBPs. They won't go to a NVidia GPU, simply because they're Apple.

The AMD GPUs perform far better in the creative applications Apple cares about than they do in games. One of the ways Apple gets their stability improvement over Windows is that they quite simply do not consider games at all when they design Macs. If games happen to work, great, but Apple won't lift a finger to make them work. Since games hit hardware really hard, and they tend to do unexpected things, ignoring them significantly increases stability.

The third possibility is a redesign - and the 2019 pretty much has to be either Sunny Cove, a redesign or both (possibly with the existing Vega 15 and 20, possibly with a 7 NM version). The 2018 is already using the final generation of 14nm Intel CPUs, and it's already had one GPU bump - so there's really nothing they can do without a new CPU that's not out yet or a redesign.

Nobody knows what a redesign might entail. They would probably replace the keyboard, but they're unlikely to move away from two basics that mean the new keyboard is not certain to be better. The most important is that the machine can't get thicker. Even if most of us would be fine with a couple of extra mm to get better key travel, Jony Ive isn't, and he's making the decision. Even more damaging, essentially the same keyboard has to fit in the whole line. The thickness of the keyboard isn't dictated by the 15" MBP - it's dictated by the MacBook. Apple will probably eventually go to a completely flat keyboard (or a keyboard with key bumps that don't move) with a Touch Bar style display underneath and artificial haptic feedback - but that's unlikely in a 2019 machine. About the best keyboard we can hope for is a further refinement of the butterfly design.

I'd be a little surprised if the 15" got much thinner - they're already right on the edge of what they can cool, and the 15" has consistently used high-power processors and medium-power discrete GPUs. They won't add ports, simply because Apple never moves what they'd consider to be "backwards", and there's no reason to subtract any, with the possible exception of the headphone jack.

One possible positive redesign is a larger screen with more resolution, by reducing or eliminating bezels. Most of their competition is already 4K. If they could get the panels, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go to a 5K "Super Retina" design.
 

Tech_Mac_Man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 18, 2018
118
51
Toronto, ON
That's too bad that they cancelled your order. It would have been nice for some contact or email or something about it. I'm sure other deals will come around again.

I just picked up another 2015 15" MBP myself at a good price (2.8/1TB/non-dgpu model). I'm giving my current 2015 15" (2.5/512GB/AMD dGPU) model to my girlfriend. She's been using my late 2013 13" MBP for awhile now, but she wanted the extra GPU power of the dGPU model. I don't need it at all in my portable system as my main Mac is the 2018 Mac Mini (i7/32GB/512GB) with eGPU.
I was looking at upgrading the ssd in the MBP and this 1TB one works great for me.


How are you liking your 2015 MacBook Pro...I know the 2018 is 90% faster...But damn I miss the lighting Apple Logo, Keyboard and Magsafe...Damn Apple should have at least kept those main three things!!
[doublepost=1549823749][/doublepost]
There is no guarantee of a redesigned model in 2019, or if the new redesign would be "better". Many people think the 2016 redesign is not a better design (mainly due to the keyboard, Touch Bar having limited utility or being cumbersome), and there is no way of knowing what they might change in a future revision.

True but Apple is known to always to a silent update on the internals without making it a BIG NEWS just like how they upgraded the cooling and GPU to Vega 20...So they will fix the "flexgate, T2 Chip, Keyboard, Speaker" issues in 2019...
[doublepost=1549823848][/doublepost]
On 2015 vs. 2018, the performance for what the OP wants is going to be a huge difference. I have a 2017 Kaby Lake (high-end stock model, but no BTO upgrades), and I previously had a 2015 with the BTO processor that a friend who wanted the ports bought off of me. I was surprised how much faster the 2017 is in Lightroom - the 6-core 2018 is going to be in a different league, especially with the Vega as well.

At this point, I consider the USB-C ports an advantage - they certainly were not earlier in the lifecycle. An increasing number of devices are now USB-C - including the iPad, and if rumors are correct, soon the iPhone as well. Many newer cameras are USB-C - I'm presently charging my Nikon Z7 on a bus, using my MacBook Pro power adapter. Newer portable and desktop storage tends to be USB-C, because it's fast enough for anything except a few corner cases (RAIDed NVMe SSDs and 8+ drive RAIDs, especially with SSD caching, still need Thunderbolt). Most printers these days are wireless, and those that aren't are easily taken care of with a standard USB to USB-C cable

Better still, the Apple USB-C ports are also Thunderbolt 3, which allows them to adapt to any port ever made for a desktop computer - from RS-232 and Centronics parallel printer ports (USB-C) to 10 gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel (Thunderbolt 3). Unfortunately, the 2-in-1 port adds cable confusion since the cables look identical except for subtle markings that can wear off, but aren't interchangeable.

I do wish they'd left one old-style USB port on there - the one real pain is flash drives. Some newer ones are double-ended, supporting both USB-C and classic USB - but the vast majority, and nearly all "giveaway" drives, aren't. The SD slot and HDMI ports are also noticeable losses. HDMI (and DisplayPort) to USB-C cables are commonplace, so monitors don't need an adapter - just a new cable - but the native HDMI port was useful for connecting to projectors and TVs using existing cables.

As for 2018 vs. 2019:

If the 2019 uses Sunny Cove, it's also likely to be late in the year - Intel is promising the mobile chips for second half 2019, which could easily mean "we got a few out the door for Ultrabooks on December 31". Maybe Intel will be faster than I expect, but their track record on 10nm chips leaves something to be desired... If the Sunny Cove release is delayed, the 2019 MBP could easily be WWDC 2020.

On the other hand, Sunny Cove is supposed to bring a meaningful improvement in instructions per clock - the first time in years we've seen a performance increase that isn't attributed to simply adding cores. I suppose at least some of the mobile chips could also be 8-core? If Sunny Cove is all that Intel says it is, it's a potentially major performance improvement,. It will certainly support 32 GB of RAM without the power compromise in the 2018 MBP, and it could support 64 GB.

There is a very slight possibility Apple might adopt mobile Ryzen, but it would take a completely different chip than AMD has now. Right now, there's no Ryzen even close to requirements for the 15" MBP - all mobile chips are dual or quad-core and none benchmark as fast as the 2015 MBP - they are all 15 watt Ultrabook chips, not 45 watt workstation chips.

I would be shocked if an Apple A-series chip showed up in a 15" MBP, at least in the near future. I would not be at all surprised if an A-series chip showed up in the MacBook fairly soon, but the 15" MBP needs a much higher power chip that Apple doesn't have. The MacBook can literally use an iPad Pro chip, maybe with extra RAM, a higher clock speed and/or extra graphics cores. The 15" MacBook Pro would need not only a different chip, but a chip with different CPU cores - more Tempest cores wouldn't be enough. Apple's not going to make that investment in a high-power core until they've had other Macs on A-series for a while.

7nm (AMD and TSMC count such things differently from Intel, so it's actually similar to Intel's 10nm process) mobile Vega or Navi GPUs are also at least possible for the 2019 MBP. Depending on exact configurations, they could improve performance significantly over even the Vega 20, and certainly over anything found on previous MBPs. They won't go to a NVidia GPU, simply because they're Apple.

The AMD GPUs perform far better in the creative applications Apple cares about than they do in games. One of the ways Apple gets their stability improvement over Windows is that they quite simply do not consider games at all when they design Macs. If games happen to work, great, but Apple won't lift a finger to make them work. Since games hit hardware really hard, and they tend to do unexpected things, ignoring them significantly increases stability.

The third possibility is a redesign - and the 2019 pretty much has to be either Sunny Cove, a redesign or both (possibly with the existing Vega 15 and 20, possibly with a 7 NM version). The 2018 is already using the final generation of 14nm Intel CPUs, and it's already had one GPU bump - so there's really nothing they can do without a new CPU that's not out yet or a redesign.

Nobody knows what a redesign might entail. They would probably replace the keyboard, but they're unlikely to move away from two basics that mean the new keyboard is not certain to be better. The most important is that the machine can't get thicker. Even if most of us would be fine with a couple of extra mm to get better key travel, Jony Ive isn't, and he's making the decision. Even more damaging, essentially the same keyboard has to fit in the whole line. The thickness of the keyboard isn't dictated by the 15" MBP - it's dictated by the MacBook. Apple will probably eventually go to a completely flat keyboard (or a keyboard with key bumps that don't move) with a Touch Bar style display underneath and artificial haptic feedback - but that's unlikely in a 2019 machine. About the best keyboard we can hope for is a further refinement of the butterfly design.

I'd be a little surprised if the 15" got much thinner - they're already right on the edge of what they can cool, and the 15" has consistently used high-power processors and medium-power discrete GPUs. They won't add ports, simply because Apple never moves what they'd consider to be "backwards", and there's no reason to subtract any, with the possible exception of the headphone jack.

One possible positive redesign is a larger screen with more resolution, by reducing or eliminating bezels. Most of their competition is already 4K. If they could get the panels, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go to a 5K "Super Retina" design.

Thank you for all this Info...Some I knew and others well you covered it and now I know... =)
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
Nobody knows what a redesign might entail. They would probably replace the keyboard, but they're unlikely to move away from two basics that mean the new keyboard is not certain to be better. The most important is that the machine can't get thicker. Even if most of us would be fine with a couple of extra mm to get better key travel, Jony Ive isn't, and he's making the decision. Even more damaging, essentially the same keyboard has to fit in the whole line. The thickness of the keyboard isn't dictated by the 15" MBP - it's dictated by the MacBook. Apple will probably eventually go to a completely flat keyboard (or a keyboard with key bumps that don't move) with a Touch Bar style display underneath and artificial haptic feedback - but that's unlikely in a 2019 machine. About the best keyboard we can hope for is a further refinement of the butterfly design.

I'd be a little surprised if the 15" got much thinner - they're already right on the edge of what they can cool, and the 15" has consistently used high-power processors and medium-power discrete GPUs. They won't add ports, simply because Apple never moves what they'd consider to be "backwards", and there's no reason to subtract any, with the possible exception of the headphone jack.

One possible positive redesign is a larger screen with more resolution, by reducing or eliminating bezels. Most of their competition is already 4K. If they could get the panels, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go to a 5K "Super Retina" design.

I'd be happy with a 2011 or 2012 thickness MBP with good cooling and good key travel length. I don't think that they will do it but I can always hope. I'm sitting very happy with 2014 and 2015 MBPs (which tells you that CPU performance and graphics performance isn't all that important to me). I will eventually upgrade but there is no need - nor am I close to any need, for a newer machine. One of the things that I value most in laptops is reliability.
 

Tech_Mac_Man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 18, 2018
118
51
Toronto, ON
For me the SCREEN and LATEST INTERNAL HARDWARE is what is important to me. I know the 2018 Macbook Pro's are 90% faster and better...See for me I don't type alot or use the ports at all...My mouse is Bluetooth and I transfer files from my camera via Bluetooth as well...It is very very RARE times where I need to use a USB drive...
 
Last edited:

Tech_Mac_Man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 18, 2018
118
51
Toronto, ON
15" 2015 2.2ghz - MacBook Pro just popped up on the Apple site. But in 2019 I can't believe they are still selling this machine with 5 year old tech at this price point...APPLE TAX is a killer!! BTW this is in Canadian Dollars without the 13% TAX SMH!!

upload_2019-3-12_15-51-44.png
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,472
40,332
15" 2015 2.2ghz - MacBook Pro just popped up on the Apple site. But in 2019 I can't believe they are still selling this machine with 5 year old tech at this price point...APPLE TAX is a killer!! BTW this is in Canadian Dollars without the 13% TAX SMH!!

View attachment 826064

That’s the worst part of current Apple.

They designed away reliability and built in flexibility, but are still charging through the nose for what they know they took away.

There is absolutely no way to justify these prices, based on the internal specs, at this point in time other than pure gouging.

That said - I would buy that before I would buy any of the butterfly models. Lol
 

Howard2k

macrumors 603
Mar 10, 2016
5,716
5,673
But if Apple sold it for $500 there would be outrage about demolishing resale values. And that in turn might perpetuate.
 

Larvas

macrumors regular
May 15, 2014
128
83
Berlin
Hey,

I had the 2014. MBP 15" first, then upgraded around 2016. to the new butterfly one, completely stopped using it after a while since it was such a pain in the ass to type, then after that I sold it and returned back to the 2014. model, and I'm still using it.

The keyboards, the ports, the magsafe, the screen, the size... Dunno, it's just to comfortable to use it and carry it around. Sure, I do miss the touchpad, but out of all of the things, I only miss that damn touchpad, which in no way can replace everything else which I love on this 2014. model.

If I would go with an upgrade, I would definitely go with the 2015. speced out version.

Photoshop works like a charm, video editing is not a problem.
 

Tech_Mac_Man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 18, 2018
118
51
Toronto, ON
Just noticed that Apple had about 5 "2015 2.8ghz 1tb, 16gb AMD Macbook Pros" for sale on their refurbished site this week.

My question is are these the ones ppl sent in with issues or are they brand new ones left over from the stock room?
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
Just noticed that Apple had about 5 "2015 2.8ghz 1tb, 16gb AMD Macbook Pros" for sale on their refurbished site this week.

My question is are these the ones ppl sent in with issues or are they brand new ones left over from the stock room?

They didn't have any when I checked earlier. I suspect that they were customer or corporate machines. If they were new, I think that they would just sell them as new. We do buy machines from Apple for corporate use and they are just unopened in a room until they are assigned to an employee. So a machine may just sit somewhere for months or even over a year until assigned. A employee could use it and then return it at some point and it would be refurbished. I have been eyeing refurb machines but I think that you have to be really careful.

There's a long thread on aftermarket SSDs and the problems that many of these have and someone (person or company) may have put one of these in and you might run into battery life problems with them. I keep watch on the used market and you can get a nice machine for about half or a bit more than what charges for refurbs. The Apple refurbs will be in better shape but, to me, I just want a machine that performs. I don't worry too much about cosmetics.

And I am in the market for a 2.8/AMD/any storage. They are $2,400 at Apple refurbed. OWC has them for about $1,729. I have seen them locally for a lot less - I just should have jumped on them faster. When Apple does fix the keyboard problems, those prices will go down.
 

LogicalApex

macrumors 65816
Nov 13, 2015
1,482
2,350
PA, USA
Why?

A market is made when we have a willing buyer and a willing seller. If someone needs a reliable computer and needs to run macOS, this is the most reliable model out there and you can get it with AppleCare.

That's more than I paid for my 2018... I get that there is a perceived reliability thing going on, but old technology is old technology and should carry a deep discount before it is considered worth picking up.

There is no guarantee that a 2015 will be any more reliable than a 2018. Especially buying one that has already aged quite a lot. 4 years old is a long time in computer years...
 
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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
That's more than I paid for my 2018... I get that there is a perceived reliability thing going on, but old technology is old technology and should carry a deep discount before it is considered worth picking up.

There is no guarantee that a 2015 will be any more reliable than a 2018. Especially buying one that has already aged quite a lot. 4 years old is a long time in computer years...

The price range for the 2015s is about $1,700 to $2,400. The $2,400 model has the 1 TB SSD, 2.8 Ghz chip and discrete graphics.

What's your model cost with 1 TB of SSD?

Clearly Apple is able to sell as many as they want to at that price. So there are buyers that consider it a good value. I wouldn't have a problem with that price myself.
 
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theapplehead

macrumors 6502a
Dec 17, 2018
786
933
North Carolina
Just noticed that Apple had about 5 "2015 2.8ghz 1tb, 16gb AMD Macbook Pros" for sale on their refurbished site this week.

My question is are these the ones ppl sent in with issues or are they brand new ones left over from the stock room?
I’m curious what OP ended up doing. Did you purchase a used 2015 or did you snag a 2018? Alternatively, did you wait till 2019 to purchase a 2019 model? Just curious.....
 

Tech_Mac_Man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 18, 2018
118
51
Toronto, ON
I’m curious what OP ended up doing. Did you purchase a used 2015 or did you snag a 2018? Alternatively, did you wait till 2019 to purchase a 2019 model? Just curious.....

I found a few MAXED out 2015 15" Macbooks in Toronto...But most are beat up or have a huge batter cycle count. Most are asking $2400-$2500 CAD for it....Which is definitely NOT worth it as the condition and cycle count is messed up..

The 2015's I do find in mint condition with low cycles are gone in a day or two...They sell really fast!!

As of now I might hold off for the 2019 thinner bezel and spec bum with the 16-16.5" Macbook Pro. Sure I will pay an arm and a leg but I tend to keep my laptops in pristine and mint condition and for a very very long time.


**2019 TORONTO RAPTORS CHAMPION!! WE THE NORTH**
 
Last edited:

shreedhar007

macrumors newbie
Jul 15, 2019
1
0
I sold my mid 2015 15 inch i7, 16GB, 256GB Macbook for $1100, which was like brand new without a single scratch anywhere, clean ports and with 110 battery cycle counts. Today after receiving my refurb 2018 Macbook with similar specs and touchbar I feel very stupid for my decision. Even if I want to buy similar condition Macbook, not finding one and 2018 model is very difficult to live with.

I use my Macbook for all my personal activities, varies from photo editing/processing, browsing web, typing, movies sometimes, to access photos from hard drive, to get photos out of SD cards after photoshoot, so on. The most annoying thing about the new version is not having USB 3.0 and no memory card slot. I understand it is a compromise, but didn’t think it would be this big only until I realized Apple doesn’t make hubs and almost all of the hubs in Amazon has some weird issues. My friend says 2 of 4 usb-c ports died for no reason (possibly because of the hub). Many in the internet saying their keyboard gone mad after a while. Some say its very fragile (The Macbook I know is strong and even after 3 years of use, it still looks new). I am completely shocked why the development went downside with Apple. I haven’t had much experience with keyboard, but the big keys look like those are made for apes. I might try to find a well used mid 2015 model, but meanwhile I appreciate anyone suggesting a good hub, that doesn’t auto eject my memory card when power cable is unplugged or any flickering issues (definitely not the ones that are crazy priced).

I never posted anything on this forum yet, as I never had a single problem with my other Apple products.
 
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