Skimming through code that is white text on a black background, it becomes very obvious as I scroll. I don't remember having this issue on my previous MBP.
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16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...
- Thread starter StONE_ROdGEr
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Got my MBP, currently in dark mode and while I can definitely say the screen is slower than my 1440p 144hz gaming monitor, I don't think my ghosting can be called extreme at all.
To make sure I'm not being crazy I took the white dots on colored backgrounds someone made in this thread, moved the picture around at the same time on my MBP and my monitor, and while there is definitely a difference it's really nothing crazy.
I don't think I'm just insensitive to it because my XPS 15 9550 had so much ghosting I upgraded because of it.
To make sure I'm not being crazy I took the white dots on colored backgrounds someone made in this thread, moved the picture around at the same time on my MBP and my monitor, and while there is definitely a difference it's really nothing crazy.
I don't think I'm just insensitive to it because my XPS 15 9550 had so much ghosting I upgraded because of it.
The off-the-shelf panels are 16:9. MacBook Pro uses the (arguably superior) 16:10 aspect ratio. I don't want to see Apple switch to 16:9.
Don't recall anyone saying it's only good for gamers, but that is the main market for a 4K 120Hz screen. It costs more and uses more power, directly or indirectly. Gamers are willing to make that tradeoff, but probably not for a machine that isn't otherwise up to that level for gaming.
Similar points apply in some degree or other to other higher-refresh screens, but I'm sure costs and power requirements will come down.
idk why people are clamouring for a 4k screen on a laptop. all it will do is destroy battery life, and with the current 16" (and previous 15" display) resolution you can't even tell the pixels apart from working distance.
however, for people who edit video for a living, i can see how a < 4k resolution display is less than ideal. i would consider getting an external display. i realize that the laptop is super expensive and that shouldnt be necessary but i'm gonna guess apple made some concessions for it so that battery life could be better.
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however, for people who edit video for a living, i can see how a < 4k resolution display is less than ideal. i would consider getting an external display. i realize that the laptop is super expensive and that shouldnt be necessary but i'm gonna guess apple made some concessions for it so that battery life could be better.
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I work in image processing and there are some people who really like using high refresh rate displays. honestly though for me I haven't really minded it as long as im at 60Hz. although ive never used a higher refresh rate than that...maybe its something where once you use a higher one you can't go back
Part of it absolutely is once you've used 120hz+ daily for any and all tasks, going back to 60hz feels terrible even at the desktop, watching your mouse move.
I'm moreso than anything simply suggesting that in all aspects, this screen should be significantly better than what's shipping, bare minimum in these 50ms response times. The tech is there. AUO and LG make phenomenal IPS panels with sub 30ms transitions that run at high resolutions at high refresh rates. You can set a screen to run at 60hz same as you set it to run at 48 same as you set it to 120, and you could get the same retina effect by just downscaling a 4k screen same as apple does this one, no?
I'm moreso than anything simply suggesting that in all aspects, this screen should be significantly better than what's shipping, bare minimum in these 50ms response times. The tech is there. AUO and LG make phenomenal IPS panels with sub 30ms transitions that run at high resolutions at high refresh rates. You can set a screen to run at 60hz same as you set it to run at 48 same as you set it to 120, and you could get the same retina effect by just downscaling a 4k screen same as apple does this one, no?
I have a 165hz monitor and 4ms response time. 60hz is fine for this laptop screen, but >30ms is insane. It makes a 60hz screen feel slow.
Just checked out a 16 inch at the Düsseldorf Apple Store in Germany today. Yes it has ghosting.. and I still prefer the feeling of the butterfly keyboards.. but I really wanna order the 16inch. Seems like I'll just wait for the ghosting and coil whine issues to end.
My 2017 15 inch MacBook Pro has the same ghosting too. It seems like it's been this way at least since the 2016 MacBook Pros, maybe even earlier. Though, it probably started with the 2016, as many of you seem to be upgrading from laptops from before 2016.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/very-slow-pixel-response-time-on-macbook-pro-2017-15.2114950/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/very-slow-pixel-response-time-on-macbook-pro-2017-15.2114950/
Forget about high refresh rate screens - even my Surface Book 2 with a 60Hz screen does a WAY BETTER job compared to the 16". The fact right now is that the 16" just has a panel that's either 1) not tuned properly (firmware upgrade maybe?) and/or 2) just plain inferior.
I sincerely hope that Apple is taking note (even tho they havent acknowledged anything related to ghosting - yet) and making modifications to the panel in future batches. This is a non-standard panel, so it may take some time, but as long as they are doing it, I am willing to return my unit and repurchase.
I saw the video of the op and if the op's video is what the ghosting is I dont really see a big difference between that and other macbook's Ive used. I have a 2012 and a 2013 pro in my house and both look the same. I doubt apple will change anything with the screen
I tried this just now on my 16". Unfortunately even at FULL brightness, I see unacceptable amount of ghosting. In fact, brightness seems to make no difference.
I will retry in a little bit once the unit warms up (I had left it turned off in a fairly cold room which was at 69degF). In my previous tests, it appears that the problem gets better once the unit has been running for a little while.
I just bought a 16", am using it directly next to my 2015 15" Jesusbook 😉...
Zero difference in ghosting.
Zero difference in ghosting.
Here's mine - LP160WT1-SJA1.
Interesting yours says 2 at the end, while mine says 1. Perhaps yours is the 2nd version of the panel? What is your manufacturer date (mine is 2019-10-24)? And does the display show ghosting? Thanks in advance.
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Nice. Can you please post the following:
1) Manufacturer date (you can get it from the coconutBattery app)
2) Screen version. You can get it by running the following in Terminal:
ioreg -lw0 | grep "EDID" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6
Thanks much!
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We are talking a revision with (hardware) bug fixes, not an entire new panel.
Manufacture date 11-11-19
LP160WT1-SJA1
It either doesn't exist on my machine, or I'm not very sensitive to it...
LP160WT1-SJA1
It either doesn't exist on my machine, or I'm not very sensitive to it...
I highly doubt that a video like that will show the ghosting effect being described here.
Instead, do this:
1) On this forum page (white text on black background), fix your eye on a particular line of text.
2) Scroll the page using the trackpad (smooth scrolling), WHILE KEEPING YOUR EYE ON THAT SAME LINE OF TEXT.
3) Scroll up and down
Do you notice the "streaking" of the text on which your eye is focused on? Like as if the white text is wet paint.
Agree on the video, but there are quite a few requests in this thread for them so figured I'd do my best...
The video does a pretty good job of showing exactly what I'm seeing though. There is a little bit of ghosting/tearing, but only when scrolling very fast... even then I can still read the word I'm fixated on while scrolling. [ETA]: The video is actually a little bit worse-looking than actual/live. The original 4K60 video on my iPhone looks slightly better than the youtube processed version.
Regardless, this appears to be the same model number of panel with a later/newer manufacture date. If my machine is better than others, then I'm crossing my fingers for others that there is a software/firmware update that can fix it...
Nick/WP
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I don't know if I'm crazy but I notice blur in everything I use. Every phone I've had. All my macbook's. 2008/11/16/19. On my iPad. On my external 34" monitor. Basically everything. I noticed the scrolling blur very early on in my 2008 white MacBook. It has never really gotten better with scrolling text. Thats why I never put much thought into screen blurring as I thought it was normal or I'm overly sensitive to it. Ive just learned to not care as much as reading while Im scrolling isn't important. With video everything looks fine.
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Are we not mixing two different things in this thread?
1) Ghosting due to the LCD having a slow response time. That should show up as a trail of "white" behind a white element on the screen when the window is moved rapidly, because the LCD pixels cannot change from white to black fast enough.
2) Screen redraw rate. This would show up as a number of "snapshots", one each time the screen redraws.
I can only see #2, and I can only see that in fairly extrem situations, e.g. grap safari and juggle it around as fast as you can. I cannot really see that as an issue. Who would want to read text while you are juggling safari at full speed?
I did compare my 16" to my 2016 15". And there is no major difference. If anything the 16" is a little bit better than the 15".
1) Ghosting due to the LCD having a slow response time. That should show up as a trail of "white" behind a white element on the screen when the window is moved rapidly, because the LCD pixels cannot change from white to black fast enough.
2) Screen redraw rate. This would show up as a number of "snapshots", one each time the screen redraws.
I can only see #2, and I can only see that in fairly extrem situations, e.g. grap safari and juggle it around as fast as you can. I cannot really see that as an issue. Who would want to read text while you are juggling safari at full speed?
I did compare my 16" to my 2016 15". And there is no major difference. If anything the 16" is a little bit better than the 15".
I got my BTO yesterday, build date 11-25. I had been worried about this issue, reading this forum. Mine is OK (for me), if not perfect! I'm coming from a late 2013 retina 15", which does not have ghosting to any noticeable degree. This new one is definitely blurrier when scrolling. I have been absolutely a read-while-scrolling guy, so I feared this 16" was going to suck. It is blurrier when scrolling for sure, but I don't notice the ghosting at any other times, and it snaps into clarity instantly as soon as I stop scrolling - it seems I am able to adapt without any problem. And the scrolling blurring, while hard to quantify, is not horrible. I am a photographer, and the improvement for most things in Lightroom and Photoshop are dramatic enough that the overall improvement is all around delightful.
When I'm not working at my desk with a big monitor and all, doing computer crunching work, I use it as a laptop to read news and such. (and as often as not I use an iPad for that consumption). Really I find it is good for the laptop-news mode.
Another question that has come up is heat. It does get hot when I'm pounding it, but at a low demand state, it is cooler than my old 2013 r 15". Like right now typing this on my lap, it is cool.
Type is smaller, and my eyes aren't young, but it is also clearer, and I am not more prone to need reading glasses than the old computer, surprisingly. I'm not using them now.
Al in all, so far, a fantastic machine!
When I'm not working at my desk with a big monitor and all, doing computer crunching work, I use it as a laptop to read news and such. (and as often as not I use an iPad for that consumption). Really I find it is good for the laptop-news mode.
Another question that has come up is heat. It does get hot when I'm pounding it, but at a low demand state, it is cooler than my old 2013 r 15". Like right now typing this on my lap, it is cool.
Type is smaller, and my eyes aren't young, but it is also clearer, and I am not more prone to need reading glasses than the old computer, surprisingly. I'm not using them now.
Al in all, so far, a fantastic machine!
S
So glad to hear. These MBP I have tested have not been bad at all, at least for me.